@Miraculix didn't you order some awhile ago?
Have you tried it yet?
Have you tried it yet?
I was just thinking about it when I read your previous post. I haven't ordered anything yet I'm afraid, but it's still on my list.@Miraculix didn't you order some awhile ago?
Have you tried it yet?
For the First Gold & EKG, does it make sense to combo them throughout or should I be focusing on one over the other at certain steps (i.e. OMG you fool never boil EKG or never late hop first gold)?
Go for it.thoughts on wlp028 Edinburg ale yeast. planning a run of scottish and english beers and hoping to use the same yeast. I have this yeast on hand. Scottish light, english bitter, esb, maybe a porter or even an IPA at the end.
I have used wlp028 in the past and it seemed to be quite neutral to me too. According to the whitelabs propaganda it is suppose to have more character fermented warmer. To test that I recently did a Scottish export and allow it to run wild. I pitched at 20C and it got up to 25C on its own and stayed there a few day. It is still conditioning but the sample at kegging did not seem estery but I will know for sure in a couple weeks.I'd get a more "true" English yeast for the bitters and IPA, the scottish yeast might be a bit too neutral and bland.
That is disappointing. White labs description made is seem more estery.I have used wlp028 in the past and it seemed to be quite neutral to me too. According to the whitelabs propaganda it is suppose to have more character fermented warmer. To test that I recently did a Scottish export and allow it to run wild. I pitched at 20C and it got up to 25C on its own and stayed there a few day. It is still conditioning but the sample at kegging did not seem estery but I will know for sure in a couple weeks.
I have never got the 70-75%attenuation posted on the whitelabs page for wlp028, it normally comes in about 68% attenuation.
That is disappointing. White labs description made is seem more estery.
I got a couple packs of Verdant due to the hype and haven't been arsed to use them so far.
I'm afraid you're tasting the beer .I just happened to taste the gravity sample of my Dark Mild using Verdant (first time user). Day 5 of fermentation; 19 deg C; almost no airlock activity; down from 1.040 to 1.012; tasted very fruity - I'm sort of hoping it's partially the acetaldehyde I tasted and the final product will be more malt-forward.
I think all of this is correct. However one caveat, it looks like all the information is relying on one source (ragus) and back in the days there must have been more invert producers and these might have used different methods, including colouring via maillard reactions. I would really like to know more about this. Maybe @patto1ro can give us some insight?to continue the topic of invert sugars @cire
I have been reading some posts from a user/thread over at the British sister forum, and old pattinson blog entries, and have started to reconsider my approach to invert sugars.
Firstly, our way of making coloured invert via partial caramellisation has nothing to do with the brewing sugars of old, and should be dropped if you wish to emulate "real" invert, as you have previously mentioned.
Secondly, using Demerara or light Musco to emulate #2 and the same but with a dash of dark Musco to emulate #3 is likely a better approach. The user/thread previously mentioned suggests use of white cane sugar as the base, but I fear that carries too little flavour, the old descriptions, and a pdf from Ragus I found, on both the manufacture and the sugars themselves, describes #2 and #3 as rather colourfull and flavourfull, with plenty of taste carry-over in the finished beer, hence my choice to go for L.Musco as the base for #3 and Demerara/ L.Musco for #2.
You have previously mentioned that you only heat the sugar to around 80c when you manufacture your invert, this seems to have been and still be the way it is done at Ragus, both to invert the sugar and to evaporate water.
This process should create some light maillard reactions, but could this not be achieved by adding the sugar early and let it boil for as long as the wort boils? Combined with the slight acidity of the wort and high temps it should also at least partially invert it.
Am I understanding this correctly?
I understand the logic behind that, but I still somehow have the feeling that they did the inversion on purpose, because it brought something significantly positive to the table compared to directly using the corresponding sugars plus maybe some molasses. But I cannot really point to more than a gut feeling, because surely at least some inversion will also take place during the boil. Maybe not enough?Most of what I've seen via googling and rons's blog suggest the Ragus way has been the modus operandi, and that invert was produced from cane sugar with molasses added back in varying degrees.
On the inversion part, the guy at the British forum spoke about modern raw cane sugar varieties already being partially inverted, and with some further (possible) inversion going on in the wort boil, is it really necessary to go through the faff of doing it? If you can do a close approximation of old days darker inverts by just using raw cane sugars with varying degrees of molasses rich dark varieties?
. . . then all we would have to do is add light or dark brown sugar. Brown sugar is just cane sugar and molasses, but that just seems wrong.I understand the logic behind that, but .. .
Is there a difference between numbered invert sugars and brewer's sugar block (the Ragus product)? Ron's writing - at least in the Let's Brew book (Mini Boox Series Volume XXX) - suggests that brewers used lots of proprietary sugars but he also notes that he knows exactly what numbered invert sugars are and provides the often followed recipe for producing them at home.Most of what I've seen via googling and rons's blog suggest the Ragus way has been the modus operandi, and that invert was produced from cane sugar with molasses added back in varying degrees.
On the inversion part, the guy at the British forum spoke about modern raw cane sugar varieties already being partially inverted, and with some further (possible) inversion going on in the wort boil, is it really necessary to go through the faff of doing it? If you can do a close approximation of old days darker inverts by just using raw cane sugars with varying degrees of molasses rich dark varieties?
Now is the time to ramp it up. If you wait until the yeast drops, and it will with Ringwood, you will have missed it. You need some yeast in suspension to do the cleanup.I've got a batch of English IPA destined for cask (based on Martin Keen article) and used some Ringwood yeast I did not know what else to use for. It took a while to get going despite making a 36hr starter. However, it is still going slowly from 1059 to 1015 (says 74%) which is surprising. I am worried about diacetyl with this yeast so going to try ramping from 18C to 23C for a couple of days but it is still fermenting (iSpindel still showing slow drop in gravity) so not sure when to do the heat-up.
Thank you! Starting the ramp now. It is still dropping and did not realize I had to no wait for complete attenuation.Now is the time to ramp it up. If you wait until the yeast drops, and it will with Ringwood, you will have missed it. You need some yeast in suspension to do the cleanup.
I'd avoid white sucrose all together, cane or beet. It terms of flavour(s) it really adds zero and totally misses the point. Don't be fooled by advice on a UK home brew forum. They can type **** until the cows come home. I'm really happy adding a small amount of molasses to achieve the desired colour rather than simmer at close to 120°C for hours. It works.to continue the topic of invert sugars @cire
I have been reading some posts from a user/thread over at the British sister forum, and old pattinson blog entries, and have started to reconsider my approach to invert sugars.
Firstly, our way of making coloured invert via partial caramellisation has nothing to do with the brewing sugars of old, and should be dropped if you wish to emulate "real" invert, as you have previously mentioned.
Secondly, using Demerara or light Musco to emulate #2 and the same but with a dash of dark Musco to emulate #3 is likely a better approach. The user/thread previously mentioned suggests use of white cane sugar as the base, but I fear that carries too little flavour, the old descriptions, and a pdf from Ragus I found, on both the manufacture and the sugars themselves, describes #2 and #3 as rather colourfull and flavourfull, with plenty of taste carry-over in the finished beer, hence my choice to go for L.Musco as the base for #3 and Demerara/ L.Musco for #2.
You have previously mentioned that you only heat the sugar to around 80c when you manufacture your invert, this seems to have been and still be the way it is done at Ragus, both to invert the sugar and to evaporate water.
This process should create some light maillard reactions, but could this not be achieved by adding the sugar early and let it boil for as long as the wort boils? Combined with the slight acidity of the wort and high temps it should also at least partially invert it.
Am I understanding this correctly?
Agreed to this. I've used it in the past to dry out an Irish Stout, and it works but that's really all that it does.really adds zero
I've never heard of 'modern raw cane sugars'. It is what it is. Cane sugar. The idea adding a small proportion (~1-5% of the sugar added) molasses to get the colour right, with a little more character, flavour wise, is nothing new. Historically, I'm not so sure there was a standard as such. Ragus are just among one or two main suppliers today. Historically, traditional breweries often had their own proprietary takes on it. You can't beat some of the finest luscious Demerara, inverted or not, imhoMost of what I've seen via googling and rons's blog suggest the Ragus way has been the modus operandi, and that invert was produced from cane sugar with molasses added back in varying degrees.
On the inversion part, the guy at the British forum spoke about modern raw cane sugar varieties already being partially inverted, and with some further (possible) inversion going on in the wort boil, is it really necessary to go through the faff of doing it? If you can do a close approximation of old days darker inverts by just using raw cane sugars with varying degrees of molasses rich dark varieties?
Maybe try to get hold of some authentic Demerara sugar from the UK. Most of the crap in Europe is indeed lab-grade beet sucrose sprayed with something.I feel like I'm falling behind again.
So we shouldn't add plain white sugar, inverted or not? But "darker" sugars like Demerara are good? Aren't those just the same plain white sugar sprayed with a measured amount of molasses? Shouldn't we be using the straight molasses then? But then, just to reiterate @Miraculix ' point: why does or did anyone bother with inverts?!
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