English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[kmarkstevens]

I would pitch the W. Yorkie first, let it go until you're down around 1020 or below, then toss in the Notty. Chris White of Whitelabs sez that the yeast flavor is infused in the first half or so of the ferment. Just a hazy recollection and I'm sure someone will chime in here with the exact quote at some point.

As I understand from these boards, it's not uncommon for English brewers to use Notty toward the end of fermentation to get to a standard finishing gravity.

 

[patto1ro]

I'm planning to brew a sequence of English-ish beers soon: a bitter, a mild, a porter/stout. Based on the tireless educational effort on this forum, I want to try and incorporate some dark invert sugar (or rather: the bastardization of dark invert sugar that I am able to produce in my home kitchen) in my bitter and mild, but I have trouble finding recipes. I usually wing most of my beers, but I am willing to learn and using sugar in a low ABV beer seems sort of counter-intuitive to me, so I really need some guidance here.

I know there are a number of recipes on the "Don't mention another word about farclay merkins" blog, but I find it very hard to choose among the recipes and often don't even know what the beers are supposed to taste like, how they compare to one another, etc. Also, I think these historical recipes often (more or less silenty) reflect at least in economic and regulatory conditions that I am not affected by (I wouldn't add an ingredient just because it's cheaper than malt or because the government dictated its usage at the time etc).

This is probably the most popular Dark Mild recipe I've published. Quite atypical due to the quantity of coloured malts, but it seems to work really well.

1955 Lees Best Mild
pale malt	4.50 lb​	66.08%​
brown malt	0.125 lb​	1.84%​
black malt	0.06 lb​	0.88%​
chocolate Malt	0.25 lb​	3.67%​
crystal malt 80 L	0.25 lb​	3.67%​
oatmeal	0.125 lb​	1.84%​
glucose	0.25 lb​	3.67%​
No. 3 invert sugar	0.50 lb​	7.34%​
No. 4 invert sugar	0.75 lb​	11.01%​
Fuggles 90 mins	0.75 oz​
Fuggles 30 mins	0.75 oz​
OG	1035​
FG	1008​
ABV	3.57​
Apparent attenuation	77.14%​
IBU	20​
SRM	26​
Mash at	148º F​
Sparge at	170º F​
Boil time	105 minutes
pitching temp	60º F​
Yeast	Wyeast 1318 London ale III (Boddingtons)

 

[patto1ro]

I'm planning to brew a sequence of English-ish beers soon: a bitter, a mild, a porter/stout. Based on the tireless educational effort on this forum, I want to try and incorporate some dark invert sugar (or rather: the bastardization of dark invert sugar that I am able to produce in my home kitchen) in my bitter and mild, but I have trouble finding recipes. I usually wing most of my beers, but I am willing to learn and using sugar in a low ABV beer seems sort of counter-intuitive to me, so I really need some guidance here.

I know there are a number of recipes on the "Don't mention another word about farclay merkins" blog, but I find it very hard to choose among the recipes and often don't even know what the beers are supposed to taste like, how they compare to one another, etc. Also, I think these historical recipes often (more or less silenty) reflect at least in economic and regulatory conditions that I am not affected by (I wouldn't add an ingredient just because it's cheaper than malt or because the government dictated its usage at the time etc).

And this is a really nice strong Brown Ale:

1954 Whitbread Double Brown
pale malt	9.00 lb​	82.76%​
chocolate malt	0.125 lb​	1.15%​
no. 3 invert sugar	1.75 lb​	16.09%​
Fuggles 60 min	1.25 oz​
Fuggles 40 min	1.25 oz​
Fuggles 20 min	1.50 oz​
OG	1053​
FG	1014.5​
ABV	5.09​
Apparent attenuation	72.64%​
IBU	42​
SRM	30​
Mash at	150º F​
Sparge at	168º F​
Boil time	60 minutes
pitching temp	62º F​
Yeast	Wyeast 1099 Whitbread ale

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

@McMullan I came to think about the other thread where yeast starters and dry yeast was discussed, so I did a little experiment with this batch of stout.
I have once forgot to aireate the wort after pitching, and did it on purpose this time, but the results were the same, a slightly longer lag and the initial fermentation phase was not as lively as usual. No off flavours or anything but just a bit slower going.
So to all of you who use dry yeast and I seen some of you guys in that thread, my anecdotal evidence atleast say that dry yeast also benefits from a little aireation.
Just giving the bucket a good shake before placing the airlock, in my experience, actually makes a difference

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

And to get back on topic, I've got a best bitter coming up, and plan on trying to mimic that TT florally subtle citrusy hoppy aroma/flavour.
Plan on doing 0.5g/L of Challenger for 15 min, and 1g/L each of Challenger and Styrian Goldings/Bobek in a 80c/20 min hopstand.
Anyone used these 2 hops together before? I expect a slightly spicy and woody hoppy flavour with a little citrus. I'm not after the exact flavour of TT mind you, but something in that general direction.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

There are southern and northern bitters, afaik. The more north, the less pronounced sweetness and the more bitterness the beers tend to have. The term "bitter" in regards to beer style does not actually have to reflect the bitterness of the beer. When I first arrived to UK, it really took me some time to understand that. I did not even know what a bitter is, never heard of that beer style in Germany before. I was just seeing all these beers which were apparently very bitter, why else would somebody write that on the front label?

In my opinion bitters should be bitter, and I believe that's why they are called bitter. It's relative obviously, and most British styles have pretty low bitterness levels. Low to medium I guess. 30-35 IBU is typical in a 1038 to 1045 wort. The British palate probably is descended from the malty ale culture of years gone by. Ale was a sweet alcoholic barley drink originally, I think. But I am no ale historian. I just don't see a large appetite for very bitter beers here, or for sour beers. Of course there is a market for both, but the majority market is for middle of the road stuff, where malt plays a key role, supported by the yeast, and hopping is pretty restrained most of the time. The switch to lager for so many people here was not a big step.

When I was younger people drank bitter or mild. I drank bitter and still do. I'm a northerner but I don't think there's a significant difference between north and south but I only drink down south from time to time. And I think the arrival of so many micro breweries has probably blurred everything. There are varieties of bitter all over the country. The breweries generally play safe because they know the majority palate is for gentle beers. This particularly applies to cask ales. The craft scene is a bit different. American styles and sours etc. and becoming more popular, particularly in the cities. I had a long craft splurge cos it's big here in Manchester and started about 25 years ago, but I've largely returned to drinking British ales, mostly cask. (I also listen to 60s 70s music a lot! Just discovered Dave Van Ronk who I know of but never really tuned in to! Good story). I actually really like the crossover beers that we have now, pale ales with hops from USA, NZ etc that are on cask. UK hops and yeast with the beautiful imported hops, served from a cask - hard to beat! When it's done well it's fantastic. I still love entirely British beers though, I like the spicy, herbal English hop varieties too.

Bitters have a bu:gu of around 0.75 in the style guidelines. You find some around 1:1 and some more like 0.5 and everything in between. I enjoy more bitter beers than most people here I think, I still miss the old Boddingtons with its c.32 IBU in a c.1035 pale wort. There is more to beer than bitterness, of course, so I do find less bitter bitters that I like. I'd say it's my desert island beer style. I have never got bored of it in over 43ish years and I could drink it exclusively, no problem. If I had to. It's a style you just don't tire of, in my experience.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I'm with you, I brew my bitters to have a BU:GU of ~0.8 and attenuation in the low to mid 70's. Kinda bittersweet and with a (by English standards) hoppy finish.

 

[tracer bullet]

Yeast's probably been discussed a dozen times here, and I think I've read every post, but having a bit of "analysis paralysis". I stumbled across this interesting thread from not too long ago: ESB fermented with something other than the Fuller's strain? I mention it partly to see if folks have learned more or changed their mind since then.

I've tried getting orange / marmalade from Wyeast 1968 and Imperial A09 Pub a few times each, with no real success. I am sure it's at least partly due to not copying Fuller's methods. That's OK, their ESB is my inspiration but I'm not trying to clone it. I'm using Maris Otter, some crystal medium and dark, a splash of Victory and EKG hops.

I'd still like to get "fruity" notes. Particular orange if possible, also any sort of berry would suit me. I'd like to avoid peaches and the like. I'm good w/ those in IPA's but they don't work in the ESB genre for me. I have some sweet orange peel that I could throw in, but it feels like cheating and having done tinctures with it I'm not sure it's what I'm looking for either.

I'm leaning towards trying the Wyeast 1318 (London III) next, or perhaps the 1332 (Northwest / possibly Gales). The 1099 Whitbread looks interesting too. Can anyone comment on the "fruity" notes for any of these?

 

[Franktalk]

And to get back on topic, I've got a best bitter coming up, and plan on trying to mimic that TT florally subtle citrusy hoppy aroma/flavour.
Plan on doing 0.5g/L of Challenger for 15 min, and 1g/L each of Challenger and Styrian Goldings/Bobek in a 80c/20 min hopstand.
Anyone used these 2 hops together before? I expect a slightly spicy and woody hoppy flavour with a little citrus. I'm not after the exact flavour of TT mind you, but something in that general direction.

Yes, I'm currently drinking a strong bitter that I late hopped for five minutes with Styrian Goldings, Challenger, and Progress. I got plenty of English hop aroma and flavor out of it, spicy, citrusy, and floral. Just beautiful. I like the combination better than just EKG. More complexity while staying true to its roots. It won't last long!

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Yeast's probably been discussed a dozen times here, and I think I've read every post, but having a bit of "analysis paralysis". I stumbled across this interesting thread from not too long ago: ESB fermented with something other than the Fuller's strain? I mention it partly to see if folks have learned more or changed their mind since then.

I've tried getting orange / marmalade from Wyeast 1968 and Imperial A09 Pub a few times each, with no real success. I am sure it's at least partly due to not copying Fuller's methods. That's OK, their ESB is my inspiration but I'm not trying to clone it. I'm using Maris Otter, some crystal medium and dark, a splash of Victory and EKG hops.

I'd still like to get "fruity" notes. Particular orange if possible, also any sort of berry would suit me. I'd like to avoid peaches and the like. I'm good w/ those in IPA's but they don't work in the ESB genre for me. I have some sweet orange peel that I could throw in, but it feels like cheating and having done tinctures with it I'm not sure it's what I'm looking for either.

I'm leaning towards trying the Wyeast 1318 (London III) next, or perhaps the 1332 (Northwest / possibly Gales). The 1099 Whitbread looks interesting too. Can anyone comment on the "fruity" notes for any of these?

I've only used 1318 of those. It's a good one, but I didn't get any orange.

An option might be to switch hops and use First Gold, or use both. First Gold can bring a hint of orange marmalade. Batches vary. It's a very nice hop, and not hugely different from Goldings. Same family kind of thing.

https://www.britishhops.org.uk/varieties/first-gold/

 

[Miraculix]

Yeast's probably been discussed a dozen times here, and I think I've read every post, but having a bit of "analysis paralysis". I stumbled across this interesting thread from not too long ago: ESB fermented with something other than the Fuller's strain? I mention it partly to see if folks have learned more or changed their mind since then.

I've tried getting orange / marmalade from Wyeast 1968 and Imperial A09 Pub a few times each, with no real success. I am sure it's at least partly due to not copying Fuller's methods. That's OK, their ESB is my inspiration but I'm not trying to clone it. I'm using Maris Otter, some crystal medium and dark, a splash of Victory and EKG hops.

I'd still like to get "fruity" notes. Particular orange if possible, also any sort of berry would suit me. I'd like to avoid peaches and the like. I'm good w/ those in IPA's but they don't work in the ESB genre for me. I have some sweet orange peel that I could throw in, but it feels like cheating and having done tinctures with it I'm not sure it's what I'm looking for either.

I'm leaning towards trying the Wyeast 1318 (London III) next, or perhaps the 1332 (Northwest / possibly Gales). The 1099 Whitbread looks interesting too. Can anyone comment on the "fruity" notes for any of these?

Did you use invert in your recipe? If not, replace ten percent of the pale malt with invert number 2 and brew it again with a09. That really boosts ester production.

If that doesn't work, I've no idea what else to do.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Can attest to First Gold, I have a brown ale recipe with FG i use, gonna brew it tomorrow as a matter of fact.
MO as base
5% Simpson DRC
5% Crisp Brown malt
2% Crystal 150 ebc
2% pale chocolate
5% of the grist in weight as light muscovado sugar in the boil
1.045 OG, 22 IBU and about 0.6/L First Gold thrown in at the last 15 min of boiling.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I've tried getting orange / marmalade from Wyeast 1968 and Imperial A09 Pub a few times each, with no real success. I am sure it's at least partly due to not copying Fuller's methods. That's OK, their ESB is my inspiration but I'm not trying to clone it. I'm using Maris Otter, some crystal medium and dark, a splash of Victory and EKG hops.

I'd still like to get "fruity" notes. Particular orange if possible, also any sort of berry would suit me.

Forget orange from 1968 and WLP002. Although I've not used A09 Pub, that or harvested Fuller's yeast are probably your best bets if you want orange from your yeast. Also keep the grist simple, don't overwhelm it with lots of crystal etc.

You should probably read KingBrianI's big thread on fermentation profiles with British yeasts, to make sure you're not creating the orange flavours and then "cleaning" them up.

For something different, you might want to try WLP023 which has a bit of the orchard fruits you get in some northern beers.

+1 to First Gold if you want to up the orange (but lets be clear, you're never going to get full-on orange from British inngredients). But it does depend on vintage and freshness. My usual way of assessing the vintage is to go to the Canterbury green hop festival - my favourite festival, in late September - but of course it's been cancelled the last two years. But in some vintages (2019 more than 2018) you get some mandarin even from things like Challenger in green hop form, which you don't normally get from the dry version.

 

[tracer bullet]

Thanks for the recommendations.

I do 3 gallon batches (winter here, cold, and so I brew indoors) and the A09 Pub I think overwhelms it due to the packaging size. I could probably dump the yeast pack into soemthing and then pour off a percentage of it, to achieve a correct or slight under pitch. Have just been thinking about a different yeast altogether but maybe I shouldn't give up on it yet.

I haven't done the invert. OK fine you win I'll go ahead and order it I could make that the lone difference and see how it goes.

The First Gold doesn't work, I discussed it earlier either here or elsewhere, but of course we don't all know everything everyone's posted. First Gold is somewhat unobtainable now. My LHBS is Northern Brewer or Midwest, and they've stopepd carrying it. Last time I tried it I got... rye flavors, possibly raw wheat flour. I didn't like it at all but the hops were questionable due to being fairly old and sitting outside of the frig at the store (because they were no longer going to carry them). I could try mail order but so far no one's got them (Yakima direct, Morebeer, AIH, etc.). I was planning to mix EKG and Challenger this time, but I know the challenger won't get the fruity bit but I thought it might still be a good flavor.

So I'm seeing options - mail order First Gold (to get something fresh), add invert, and keep with Pub A09 but at a lower pitch.

Solid advice, thank you.

Still open to yeast options I don't need orange specifically but just didn't want to go off in some other clearly non-English direction. Was still trying to choose from English yeast strains. I'll read that linked thread again. I have read through it but quite soem time ago, and I know more now than I did then and might learn something.

 

[bwible]

I have a best bitter in keg now that I brewed in Feb with Pub. First time I used it and I do like it. I wouldn’t say this beer has any orange flavor. But I think it is closer in flavor to commercial British beers I’ve had than I’ve gotten with some other yeasts. I was never able to capture that orangey or marmalade flavor people talk about in any British beer I’ve made, though.

My recipe included First Gold (first wort, bittering because it was the highest alpha British hop I had at 9.2%) along with Challenger and Kent Goldings for later hop additions.

I recently bought a pound of First Gold on sale from Northern Brewer - now you have me worried the hops might not be good.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Thanks for the recommendations.

I do 3 gallon batches (winter here, cold, and so I brew indoors) and the A09 Pub I think overwhelms it due to the packaging size. I could probably dump the yeast pack into soemthing and then pour off a percentage of it, to achieve a correct or slight under pitch. Have just been thinking about a different yeast altogether but maybe I shouldn't give up on it yet.

I haven't done the invert. OK fine you win I'll go ahead and order it I could make that the lone difference and see how it goes.

The First Gold doesn't work, I discussed it earlier either here or elsewhere, but of course we don't all know everything everyone's posted. First Gold is somewhat unobtainable now. My LHBS is Northern Brewer or Midwest, and they've stopepd carrying it. Last time I tried it I got... rye flavors, possibly raw wheat flour. I didn't like it at all but the hops were questionable due to being fairly old and sitting outside of the frig at the store (because they were no longer going to carry them). I could try mail order but so far no one's got them (Yakima direct, Morebeer, AIH, etc.). I was planning to mix EKG and Challenger this time, but I know the challenger won't get the fruity bit but I thought it might still be a good flavor.

So I'm seeing options - mail order First Gold (to get something fresh), add invert, and keep with Pub A09 but at a lower pitch.

Solid advice, thank you.

Still open to yeast options I don't need orange specifically but just didn't want to go off in some other clearly non-English direction. Was still trying to choose from English yeast strains. I'll read that linked thread again. I have read through it but quite soem time ago, and I know more now than I did then and might learn something.

Admiral hops might be another option if you can get any, and in decent condition. Challenger and EKG is a good combo though. Adding a little bit of Amarillo might work. I do that kind of thing just to lift a beer, especially if my hops are not so fresh.

 

[tracer bullet]

Ordered some First Gold and Barbe Rouge (heh, might make it into an otherwise English Ale some day) from Northwest Hop Farms. Chatted w/ them and they said they had an older supply but ensured me it was well taken care of and not repackaged and left on a shelf as I found them at Midwest / Northern Brewer. In fact they mentioned that MW / NB likely sourced their supply from them (from NWHF) at some point as they are one of their customers.

I mention it in case others, like me, find First Gold nearly impossible to find otherwise. Looks like I'll give it another shot.

 

[hout17]

Ordered some First Gold and Barbe Rouge (heh, might make it into an otherwise English Ale some day) from Northwest Hop Farms. Chatted w/ them and they said they had an older supply but ensured me it was well taken care of and not repackaged and left on a shelf as I found them at Midwest / Northern Brewer. In fact they mentioned that MW / NB likely sourced their supply from them (from NWHF) at some point as they are one of their customers.

I mention it in case others, like me, find First Gold nearly impossible to find otherwise. Looks like I'll give it another shot.

I just looked up First Gold and it looks like an incredible hop for English ales; I'm definitely going to have to try and get my hands on some.

Here is the description from my LHBS:

Flavour and Aroma: It has a wonderful tangerine, sweet orangey citrus aroma and slender spicy notes. Its flavours are of marmalade, geranium, magnolia, sweet and floral.
Characteristics: Orange, marmalade, spicy.
Bittering Characteristics: First Gold has refreshing, sharp and crisp bittering characteristics.
Typically 6.5%-10

 

[DuncB]

Sounds like a great Yeast I meant hop for a saison or farmhouse ale. Doesn't appear available here in NZ though, so I'll await your feedback and see if any will survive a plane flight when I holiday in UK in the summer.

Edit changed yeast to hop duhh.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I like First Gold a lot as my bittering and sometimes finishing hop for things English. It's my go to for the bittering addition, and then finish with BX, EKG or Fuggles. I got a couple of pounds from Midwest on closeout. Heck, I first got a pound on close out from about 7 years ago from hopsdirect. It seems that First Gold is always on sale at one of the on-line sources. That said, I don't get marmalade from it. Of course, my palette doesn't seem to be overly discerning.

Pub far out performs WLP002 and 1968 in multiple split trial blind tastings for myself and the LHBS.

Ditto for WLP Whitbread + S-04 mix as being superior to either alone.

You might want to try West Yorkshire/Essex ale for something a little more flavorful.

 

[McMullan]

I'm biased by top-cropping Yorkshire strains, including Ringwood. (Wyeast's is more comparable to Ringwood Brewery's yeast.) I have the Fuller's strain, which is much better than, and nothing like, WLP002. The orange/marmalade character is quite subtle to me. I had to 'look' for it. But yeast flavour profiles are usually subtle affairs, in what I consider well-balanced beers. Healthy yeast pitched at a high rate at 17°C and let loose to free rise is my favoured strategy for fermenting English ales. Recirculated or not. Once things are standardised and the yeast profile (under standardised conditions) has been noted, things can be tweaked to make the same strain behave differently. A robust, flavoursome recipe might be able to handle more of the yeast strain's character. A more delicate, paler recipe not so much. It's the brewer's responsibility to manage the yeast. Obviously, it's not possible for a home brewer to fully assess all available English yeast strains, which is why I'd recommend focusing on one or two strains for a while. All well-preserved English brewery yeast strains are going to work, under the right conditions, and produce nice English ales.

 

[monkeymath]

But yeast flavour profiles are usually subtle affairs, in what I consider well-balanced beers.

Yup, absolutely. Tbh I often struggle to actually divide what flavor comes from the yeast, what from the hops. Online people confidently make such attributions ("peach esters from the yeast mix with mango and papaya from the hops"), and I always wonder if the poster is truly able to make this distinction. Based on the performance of random beer geeks in Brulosophy triangle tests, I doubt it.

Just recently, they failed to reliably distinguish A09 Pub and S-04 in a dark mild (The Brü Club xBmt Series | Yeast Comparison: Imperial Yeast A09 Pub vs Safale S-04 English Ale In A Dark Mild). I know such a test doesn't say much in itself, but I find it interesting considering how most homebrewers will have a strong opinion on which of the two yeasts they prefer.

I know people will be quick to jump in and say the brewer did everything wrong, the recipe itself is an insult to English beers in general, and both beers were certainly infected and riddled with off-flavours which masked the drastic differences between the yeasts. Fine.

 

[eshea3]

I'm biased by top-cropping Yorkshire strains, including Ringwood. (Wyeast's is more comparable to Ringwood Brewery's yeast.) I have the Fuller's strain, which is much better than, and nothing like, WLP002. The orange/marmalade character is quite subtle to me. I had to 'look' for it. But yeast flavour profiles are usually subtle affairs, in what I consider well-balanced beers. Healthy yeast pitched at a high rate at 17°C and let loose to free rise is my favoured strategy for fermenting English ales. Recirculated or not. Once things are standardised and the yeast profile (under standardised conditions) has been noted, things can be tweaked to make the same strain behave differently. A robust, flavoursome recipe might be able to handle more of the yeast strain's character. A more delicate, paler recipe not so much. It's the brewer's responsibility to manage the yeast. Obviously, it's not possible for a home brewer to fully assess all available English yeast strains, which is why I'd recommend focusing on one or two strains for a while. All well-preserved English brewery yeast strains are going to work, under the right conditions, and produce nice English ales.

Do you open ferment? I generally do that for the first 48 hours or so. Lid on my anvil bucket is on but not latched and no blowoff tube attached.

 

[McMullan]

I can easily distinguish between English strains, especially those I use most. What I was trying to say was it's possible to make one strain behave differently by managing things differently, by understanding what it does under different conditions. I know some home brewers aim to accentuate yeast profiles by pitching at a low rate, and that's fine, it's their home brew, but, for me, in a nicely balanced beer, the yeast profile is a subtle affair. This is what I've always experienced drinking commercial beers brewed by my favourite traditional English breweries.

 

[McMullan]

Do you open ferment? I generally do that for the first 48 hours or so. Lid on my anvil bucket is on but not latched and no blowoff tube attached.

Yes, I open ferment all my English ales, usually in a Yorkshire square set-up, recirculating the fermenting wort to rouse the yeast into action.

Standard practice for a decent top-cropping Yorkshire yeast.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yup, absolutely. Tbh I often struggle to actually divide what flavor comes from the yeast, what from the hops. Online people confidently make such attributions ("peach esters from the yeast mix with mango and papaya from the hops"), and I always wonder if the poster is truly able to make this distinction. Based on the performance of random beer geeks in Brulosophy triangle tests, I doubt it.

Just recently, they failed to reliably distinguish A09 Pub and S-04 in a dark mild (The Brü Club xBmt Series | Yeast Comparison: Imperial Yeast A09 Pub vs Safale S-04 English Ale In A Dark Mild). I know such a test doesn't say much in itself, but I find it interesting considering how most homebrewers will have a strong opinion on which of the two yeasts they prefer.

I know people will be quick to jump in and say the brewer did everything wrong, the recipe itself is an insult to English beers in general, and both beers were certainly infected and riddled with off-flavours which masked the drastic differences between the yeasts. Fine.

Well, people can prefer a yeast for reasons other than flavour - reliability, flocculation, tolerance of sub-optimal conditions and so on. I don't think anyone is saying it's "certainly infected" or anything like that. But I would make the comment that IMO a lot of Brulosophy experiments don't make it easy for themselves with their choices of beer style, which often have a lot going on that will tend to mask real but sometimes subtle differences in the variable under test. If you want to test British yeasts in the most transparent way, just do it in a simple golden ale, even a SMASH.

Beyond that, I haven't got much to say about Brulosophy, all I can go on is my own experience which is mostly with split batches of fairly simple SMASH-y golden ales with different yeasts. And yes I can definitely detect differences between them, even with long Covid knocking out 90% of my ability to smell/taste fruity/estery compounds. Part of that may be that I've got a relatively well-trained palate from years of wine tasting, my observation is that most people have pretty under-developed senses of smell/taste and can struggle to pick out different flavours - and part of that is natural "aptitude" but like many things it can be dramatically improved with practice and training. And as you get more experience you get to learn what elements tend to be associated with yeast and which with hops or grist.

 

[eshea3]

Yes, I open ferment all my English ales, usually in a Yorkshire square set-up, recirculating the fermenting wort to rouse the yeast into action.

View attachment 765483
View attachment 765484

Standard practice for a decent top-cropping Yorkshire yeast.

Awesome set up

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Well, people can prefer a yeast for reasons other than flavour - reliability, flocculation, tolerance of sub-optimal conditions and so on. I don't think anyone is saying it's "certainly infected" or anything like that. But I would make the comment that IMO a lot of Brulosophy experiments don't make it easy for themselves with their choices of beer style, which often have a lot going on that will tend to mask real but sometimes subtle differences in the variable under test. If you want to test British yeasts in the most transparent way, just do it in a simple golden ale, even a SMASH.

Beyond that, I haven't got much to say about Brulosophy, all I can go on is my own experience which is mostly with split batches of fairly simple SMASH-y golden ales with different yeasts. And yes I can definitely detect differences between them, even with long Covid knocking out 90% of my ability to smell/taste fruity/estery compounds. Part of that may be that I've got a relatively well-trained palate from years of wine tasting, my observation is that most people have pretty under-developed senses of smell/taste and can struggle to pick out different flavours - and part of that is natural "aptitude" but like many things it can be dramatically improved with practice and training. And as you get more experience you get to learn what elements tend to be associated with yeast and which with hops or grist.

I agree, since I started brewing, I have also started to taste beers differently when drinking, both my own and commercial. For the past few years I have started to pick up and isolate flavours/notes I definitely would not have thought of before.

 

[McMullan]

Awesome set up

I'm currently redesigning it with fixed stainless plumbing.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Waiting for the strike water to warm up...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The First Gold doesn't work, I discussed it earlier either here or elsewhere, but of course we don't all know everything everyone's posted. First Gold is somewhat unobtainable now. My LHBS is Northern Brewer or Midwest, and they've stopepd carrying it. Last time I tried it I got... rye flavors, possibly raw wheat flour. I didn't like it at all but the hops were questionable due to being fairly old and sitting outside of the frig at the store (because they were no longer going to carry them). I could try mail order but so far no one's got them (Yakima direct, Morebeer, AIH, etc.). I was planning to mix EKG and Challenger this time, but I know the challenger won't get the fruity bit but I thought it might still be a good flavor.

So I'm seeing options - mail order First Gold (to get something fresh), add invert, and keep with Pub A09 but at a lower pitch.

Solid advice, thank you.

Still open to yeast options I don't need orange specifically but just didn't want to go off in some other clearly non-English direction. Was still trying to choose from English yeast strains. I'll read that linked thread again. I have read through it but quite soem time ago, and I know more now than I did then and might learn something.

Sucks about First Gold across the pond. It won't help that
a) even here, there's been a big swing in fashions, retailers sell Citra and Galaxy as soon as they land in the warehouse on but trad British and Continental hops are a bit out of fashion, so stay on the shelves longer and so the quality won't be as good.
b) Covid disruptions have meant less beer being sold in pubs so again there's more inventory hanging around than there might have been
c) Covid has caused wideranging disruption to world trade, and relatively small amounts of niche products are not first in line for the limited freight capacity available
d) Brexit is continuing to screw up British trade with the rest of the world - nearly six years after the referendum we still don't have working customs software, and most of the focus is again on fixing the big trade flows with our neighbours.

None of these are the sole reasons that you're not seeing particular British hops in good condition Stateside - but none of it helps.

Personally I wouldn't get too hung up on the orange thing, it may be a Fuller's trademark but most British beer doesn't have it. If you haven't tried 1469 then that's an obvious one to start with, maybe then WLP023. And if you ever see WLP038 Manchester then that definitely seems to be worth grabbing, it's a Vault strain that almost nobody has tried - I've not got round to trying mine - but the reviews all seem pretty positive.

 

[kmarkstevens]

WLP038 Manchester was gifted to me by someone on these boards that was clearing out the yeast bank (big thanks!). It's been by far the best yeast I've tried to get to Boddington's. And I need to revisit Tony's Pre 1970 Boddington Clone here: Recreating Boddingtons - Page 9 - Home Brew Forum

I have done this twice but not seriously attacked it brew after brew and I must do. This is a beer I MUST recreate. Now that winter is winding down and the rain is a bit less prevalent, it's time to get the stir plate going.

In my humble opinion, Brulosophy jumped the shark ages ago. They seem to be doing comparisons for comparison's sake. And no idea where that mild recipe came from but do try to use some English malts when making an English beer, puh-leese. And the other thing are the beer tasters that they employ. That said, God bless, relax, don't worry, have a home brew.

 

[eshea3]

Mighty impressed with Verdant IPA yeast. Pitched at 64 F on 4/7 at 2 pm. Healthy krauzen at 21 hours and hit terminal gravity in less than 60 hours.

 

[DuncB]

Verdant is a beast of a yeast, somewhere there was a thread about that yeast with many pictures of escaping krausen.

 

[deere322]

Speaking of Verdant Yeast, I'm going to brew up a Dry Irish stout and am thinking about using Verdant.

Good or bad decision?

 

[monkeymath]

I finally found myself with a sufficiently long period of time without my boss to try my hands at making invert sugar syrup.

I made two batches in parallel, one from "whole cane sugar" (just some boiled down sugar cane juice, unrefined) and one from "raw cane sugar". The former had the texture of damp sand and a deep caramel taste with licorice and some savory undertones, whereas the latter was a rather pale crystalline sugar, sweet and just lightly caramely.

For each batch, I dissolved the 500g of sugar in an equal amount of hot water, brought it to a boil, added 2ml of lactic acid, brought the temp up to 115°C and held it there for an extended period of time.

The batch made from whole cane sugar was black already from the start, so (besides inversion) I was mostly looking to add colour and flavour to the paler raw cane sugar. After three hours at 112-120°C it had reached a nice reddish hue and I decided to call it a day.

After hours in the syrups' fumes and countless intermediate taste tests, my taste buds are too knocked out to say much about the resulting flavours. The whole cane sugar did not change that dramatically, I think. The savory notes were pushed back and it became a bit malty and rum-like. For the lighter coloured batch, it developed some warm honey-like flavours and a mild fruitiness, perhaps, but it was very mild in comparison to the other batch, so I couldn't really appreciate any subtleties.

For the dark one, I wonder whether the process had any impact that could be detected in the final beer. If I had a spare fermenter, I'd try splitting the wort and adding the pure whole cane sugar to half of it. For the light one, I'm not sure whether it'll have a perceptible impact at all.

I'm going to use the dark one in a dark mild and the lighter one in a best bitter of sorts.

Just to clarify: when people talk about the percentages at which the sugars are used, does that mean percentage of the entire grist's weight or percentage of the fermentable sugars' weight?
For example, I might use 4kg of malt to make 20l of 10°P wort, which contains about 2kg of sugars. Would "10% invert" then correspond to 200g or 400g?!

Also, the whole cane sugar batch always developed a rather massive cap of foam. Does anyone know what that's about? (See also the attached picture.)

 

[McMullan]

Speaking of Verdant Yeast, I'm going to brew up a Dry Irish stout and am thinking about using Verdant.

Good or bad decision?

I'm planning on fermenting a brown ale, packed with Bramling Cross, with it. They claim it's good for stouts/porters so I'd go for it.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I find that the flavours of dark invert really start to shine if you let it rest for a few days.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Speaking of Verdant Yeast, I'm going to brew up a Dry Irish stout and am thinking about using Verdant.

Good or bad decision?

I've used Verdant a few times and really like it. It makes a great porter. And brown ale. Would it suit a dry stout? I dunno. It's not terribly dry, and it's pretty fruity. Depends what you want I guess.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Verdant ~= London Ale III

I'd go with Notty before LA3 in a dry stout.