The movie The Vikings was set in the 1950s? Interesting.
English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?
- Thread starter Puddlethumper
- Start date
-
- Tags
- recipe
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
You may be saying this, but it was made in the 50's, still set in the Viking era.
Colindo
Well-Known Member
Can we please stay on topic and get back to sugars please? 
McMullan
wort maker
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
- Messages
- 2,566
- Reaction score
- 3,441
"The Vikings is a 1958 American epic historical fiction swashbuckling film directed by Richard Fleischer, filmed in Technirama, and printed in Technicolor. It was produced by Jerry Bresler and stars Kirk Douglas. It is based on the 1951 novel The Viking by Edison Marshall, which in turn is based on material from the sagas" (Wikipedia) and other legends written by Icelandic Norse folk between about 1250-1400. About 300 years before the first standardised British gallons and pints. The drinking horn itself predates the 9th century by considerably more than a thousand years, at least, and was widely used in much of Europe. At some point, the culture reached as far as northern Europe. Only when standardised pints were introduced did relative peace in Europe lead to the Enlightenment and real progress. Clearly we need to make further standardisation of beer volume to promote the peace once again. Let's just call it '0.5L'. Who cares, it's only beer.
I went with my mum to watch Vikings in 1958 great film. My two favourite scenes are Kirk running on the oars and throwing axes to cut the girl braids.
Additionally the action is set on the Northumberland coast where the Vikings raided including Lindisfarne (Holy Island). Most of us Northern English are descended from them.
I like making my own invert. Adding the base is an important key factor to the flavour.
McMullan
wort maker
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
- Messages
- 2,566
- Reaction score
- 3,441
Not according to genetics. Very little Norse DNA in the British population.
Not true
McMullan
wort maker
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
- Messages
- 2,566
- Reaction score
- 3,441
Viking DNA breakdown. A map of the average AncestryDNA Scandinavian ethnicity estimates across Great Britain and Ireland reveals patterns that may coincide with known events in Viking history.
Just made a No. 1, darker than I expected given Lyle's, but still useful, I think. I now have 1-4.
McMullan
wort maker
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
- Messages
- 2,566
- Reaction score
- 3,441
Even if there were such a thing as 'viking' DNA (there isn't, it's often confused by storytellers - it's actually Norse DNA), at most, 13.5%, is a long way from demonstrating much Norse ancestry to write home about. Do the maths.
DuncB
Well-Known Member
My first dark mild, came out to dry at 1.007 had some home made invert in the recipe. Plenty of body served from the beer engine, mash temp was a little low for a while. Next time I'll be closer.
Was just about to say that, about 10% of any ancestral DNA is not much at all.
I am about 1/8th Hungarian from my grandmother's father, can I claim to be a descendant of the Magyars?
I wouldn't worry, a mild is supposed to be easily drinkable, 1.007 seems a pretty good FG if you look at various recipes post war and forward, low to high 70's% AA seems pretty average.
McMullan
wort maker
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
- Messages
- 2,566
- Reaction score
- 3,441
Most probably most arrived in Britain long before viking raids too, from related Saxons and other Germanic tribes like the Belgae, who were in Britain before the Romans. The funny thing is, pretty much all European genetic diversity in Europe today existed tens of thousands of years ago. We all more or less have the same genomic elements in our populations, just at different frequencies due to time, random events and isolation by distance. Storytellers read far too much into things. Demonstrating directionality of gene flow is very difficult and limited research publications often ignore that there are a number of equally likely alternatives, competing hypotheses, including common ancestors around the North Sea, especially on the continent, which is just a stone's throw from the coast on South East England, with much less 'isolation by distance'.
Looks pretty tasty to me!
Hope so, thanks man!
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
I have to admit it started tingeling a little watching that...
Colindo
Well-Known Member
@Northern_Brewer Awesome pictures and the clip of the overflowing square gives me a tad of anxiety!
When they say "oldest strain", do they imply that it is a single strain that they use? Contrary to Theakston and some others that state the use of a twin strain?
When they say "oldest strain", do they imply that it is a single strain that they use? Contrary to Theakston and some others that state the use of a twin strain?
I find it a bit sad that this distinction has to be made nowadays and is no longer clear from the word "ale"...
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
I wouldn't read anything into it one way or the other, it's a word that gets used either way by PR people, I would only read it literally if it came from a brewer or a microbiologist.
In this context "ale" is anything that isn't "lager" - lager probably accounts for a majority of their production at a guess.
McMullan
wort maker
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
- Messages
- 2,566
- Reaction score
- 3,441
Preferably a microbiologist with some confirmed data. The phrase ‘strain’ being used far too loosely among brewers.
Colindo
Well-Known Member
Didn't we recently argue over the correct usage of the term ESB? I would not like to be more lenient with the usage of the word ale.
I agree with the PR talk, of course.
I wonder if Anchor Brewery is going to sell off their open fermentor tanks?
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
In general yes, but brewers from the family brewers know their yeast well enough to be precise IME.
Realistically, Sam's are likely to be using a multistrain unless they've cleaned it up really recently, which I've not heard of them doing.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
So you wouldn't apply it to any drink containing hops?
Terms evolve, from Sam's POV their range splits into lagers and the rest, and it's not unreasonable to refer to that "rest" as ales as they use the ale yeast.
Colindo
Well-Known Member
Well, the change of ales becoming hopped was in the 17th century. The usage of ale for a sub-division of top-fermented beers is still widely applied today.
What has vanished is the specific meaning of "beer" which is now in the UK used for all types of malt liquor, not only those that descend from hopped malt liquors. In Ireland you still order Stout or Ale at the bar...
What has vanished is the specific meaning of "beer" which is now in the UK used for all types of malt liquor, not only those that descend from hopped malt liquors. In Ireland you still order Stout or Ale at the bar...
The Old Swan Inn and brewery.
I love that video! The thing most interesting is not sanitizing things like spoons, samplers, and doing an FV top up with straight tap water (not boiled).
I brewed a brown ale last week and my FV was very full (30L wort in 30L bucket) and had a mix of Voss and US-05 (an experiment). I had to open the lid a couple of times to let some oxygen in as it seemed like it was struggling. I should have just left the lid off and open fermented for the first few days. Would need a catch tray to save having to scrub my fermenting chest freezer chamber.
when I lived in the UK I went to college in Loughborough and used to race karts in Birmingham and the Black Country. I wish I'd gone to this pub.
I brewed a brown ale last week and my FV was very full (30L wort in 30L bucket) and had a mix of Voss and US-05 (an experiment). I had to open the lid a couple of times to let some oxygen in as it seemed like it was struggling. I should have just left the lid off and open fermented for the first few days. Would need a catch tray to save having to scrub my fermenting chest freezer chamber.
when I lived in the UK I went to college in Loughborough and used to race karts in Birmingham and the Black Country. I wish I'd gone to this pub.
McMullan
wort maker
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
- Messages
- 2,566
- Reaction score
- 3,441
I suspect top cropping cleans it up fairly well. And, like the ‘Highlander’, over time, there can be only one. Unless the game changes.
Colindo
Well-Known Member
Not sure if you mean the same, but in the German forum this sentence is repeated often with the intention of saying one yeast strain will outcompete the others. As history has shown, the opposite is true and the long-term development of continuously repitched yeast is the establishment of a multi-strain yeast. The reason for that is specialisation, where each strain fills a distinct niche. One might have the fastest metabolism, but another the stronger attenuation, and yet another might just propagate quickly.
McMullan
wort maker
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
- Messages
- 2,566
- Reaction score
- 3,441
As long as the niche (brewing/fermentation environment) remains the same and there is top cropping to ‘clean’ the yeast, I don’t see much chance of a multi-strain slurry remaining stable over time. Some variants evolving then going extinct and occasionally some competition over the short-term until a new variant takes over the niche due to a reproductive advantage. The niche within a brewery isn’t as multidimensional as it needs to be to support multi-strain slurries. Until valid data show otherwise, this ‘null hypothesis’ must be assumed to be true. Most of what has been presented so far is little more than anthropocentric and tall stories told by brewers down the pub. So most likely BS.
Colindo
Well-Known Member
@McMullan
Well, I'm by far no yeast expert. But I am puzzled by how you little you take the fact into account that multi-strain was the norm until around the 70 and even today for a few breweries. Granted, some finetune the fermentation result by pitching two strains individually and propagating them separate from each other to get exactly the flavour profile they want, which was certainly not done back in the day, but assuming that one yeast outperforms all others is a strange thought to me. Any sources on that?
Well, I'm by far no yeast expert. But I am puzzled by how you little you take the fact into account that multi-strain was the norm until around the 70 and even today for a few breweries. Granted, some finetune the fermentation result by pitching two strains individually and propagating them separate from each other to get exactly the flavour profile they want, which was certainly not done back in the day, but assuming that one yeast outperforms all others is a strange thought to me. Any sources on that?
McMullan
wort maker
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
- Messages
- 2,566
- Reaction score
- 3,441
The biology, ecology and evolution, of microorganisms generally? It’s not something easily demonstrated by a specific source as such. More a broad field of knowledge one needs to read. Yeast are social unicellular organisms but, unlike humans and other multicellular social organisms, the unit of selection on yeast is the clone, not population of separate individuals. Culturally, there are no benefits to yeast from existing in multi-strain communities. Therefore, in theory, multi-strain slurries only exist due to human intervention. It’s not an evolutionary stable strategy over time therefore unlikely to be a natural phenomena observed among serially repitched slurries in traditional English breweries. This is based on my understanding of biology and how it works therefore how things are likely to work in an artificial environment like a brewery well managed by routine. I’m not proposing anything novel here either. Ironically, what people should be asking is, what are the sources of evidence for natural multi-strain slurries in traditional English breweries where yeast have been serially repitched for decades? I’m not saying they don’t exist. According to my observations and the lack of credible scientific data (for which there has been no excuse, methodologically speaking, for a few decades now) the idea is supported more by hearsay and belief than solid data. Until some convincing data rejects the null hypothesis, and shows there are even desirable benefits to multi-strain slurries, in terms of improved beer quality, that’s going to remain my position.
I noticed the sanitation aspect too. It could be because there's a fast turnaround, and little chance for infection to take hold. Then again, he does say that the mild is only brewed once every 3 weeks, and that's enough time for infection to ruin the batch.
EDIT: Oops. I meant to reply to @warx
McMullan
wort maker
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
- Messages
- 2,566
- Reaction score
- 3,441
If enough healthy yeast get repitched, other bugs soon get outcompeted. Ethanol, even at low levels, and lack of O2 in casks can help preserve beer for weeks. ‘Good’ food hygiene, as practiced down the greasy cafe, should be adequate for a brew pub.
I always do a full (7-10 days) primary fermentation closed but have heard some people leave it open for the first three days then close it. I guess since this brewery is bottling early in order to finish fermentation in secondary no priming is needed. For me to try this I'd really have to be 100% sure I was going to hit my FG to know when to cask it early. I wonder what the flavor/esters difference is vs full primary and re-priming secondary.
EDIT: prolly an easy experiment to take half from the FV a few points shy of FG in a 2.5gal keg and leave the rest to finish, Hmm....
Colindo
Well-Known Member
@warx In Germany it is common to do a forced fermentation test. At high kräusen you take a sample with a syringe and keep it significantly warmer than your fermentation. Easy with bottom-fermented beer, less so with British Ales, which is why I ususally also oxygenate the hell out of the sample to maximise yeast multiplication.
That way you know within a few days what the FG of your final sample is and can then transfer to keg at the right time.
That way you know within a few days what the FG of your final sample is and can then transfer to keg at the right time.
Similar threads
