English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Erik the Anglophile]

Speaking of sanitation and infected beer, I tried some of my Brett'd old ale. One 33cl bottle(minus the last bit of dregs) and topped up with mild. On it's own the brett flavour is a bit overpowering but topped up with mild it's perfect.
Will be very interesting to see how this one develops when I put the bottles in the cellar...

 

[Miraculix]

Speaking of sanitation and infected beer, I tried some of my Brett'd old ale. One 33cl bottle(minus the last bit of dregs) and topped up with mild. On it's own the brett flavour is a bit overpowering but topped up with mild it's perfect.
Will be very interesting to see how this one develops when I put the bottles in the cellar...

Still need to bottle mine....

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

How long has it been going? My Imperial stout that I racked to secondary a few months after the old ale and innoculated with it is up for bottling this weekend.

 

[Miraculix]

How long has it been going? My Imperial stout that I racked to secondary a few months after the old ale and innoculated with it is up for bottling this weekend.

I think it must be a year now. I'm actually not quite sure tbh. I got it written on a sticker on the carboy.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Probably done. Is the pellicle real gnarly?

 

[Miraculix]

Probably done. Is the pellicle real gnarly?

Yep, I'm 100% certain it's done. I'm just not having the time atm to brew something to throw it on the bretty yeastcake. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[Miraculix]

Yep, I'm 100% certain it's done. I'm just not having the time atm to brew something to throw it on the bretty yeastcake. Maybe tomorrow.

Well.... Hold my beer!

Multiple problems, one solution. I wanna rack a stronger beer on the Brett cake that is in a 5l carboy. I want to rack abeer on it that's almost done fermenting from a "normal" yeast's perspective.

I don't want to brew a big batch of strong beer for this and the small fermenters I have are too small, they will overflow at peak fermentation.

But I got a nice 5l cooking pot. Well, no soup this week then, it will be my mash tun, my boiling kettle and my open fermenter. Once done, I can transfer on to the lees of the bretted porter.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Modern problems require modern solutions m'dude.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I think it must be a year now. I'm actually not quite sure tbh. I got it written on a sticker on the carboy.

Timely guys. I'm about to brew the 1848 Barclay Perkins/Ron Pattinson and have some WLP545 on its way. I was actually going to post a thread on brett temps, but seems fitting here. I've seen somewhere people talking about the long, slow brett secondary taking place at cellar temps, about 55F. Optima for the yeast is obviously much higher. I exchanged with White Labs a bit, and I suggested a long slow cooling from primary temp (using a blend of 1098 and 1099), to the cellar temp and months on Brett, so as not to shock the brett.

Is this reasonable? Or do you guys secondary the brett at higher temps?

He also suggested monitoring the taste - sourness - after a long while on the brett "because the gravity won't change much." My presumption is that he's talking about somehow killing the Brett at a certain point, something I'd rather not do - I'd rather it finish naturally, with balanced funk and acidity. Any guidelines?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I'd say just chuck it in the basement and let it ride.
You're probably overthinking this.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I'd say just chuck it in the basement and let it ride.
You're probably overthinking this.

Actually don't have basement option, and don't want to tie up the temp-controlled fridge that long (bad enough when I do a lager), so unless 65-68 is a bad choice, I was wondering about just leaving it at room temp for the months of secondary.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Dig an earth-cellar!

 

[Colindo]

@Gadjobrinus I did my Brett beers at room temperature for six months. Worked well and only gave the expected flavours.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Dig an earth-cellar!

I'm done with cave building....too freaking old!

 

[Gadjobrinus]

@Gadjobrinus I did my Brett beers at room temperature for six months. Worked well and only gave the expected flavours.

Thanks man! Now I can stuff the fridge with another while the RIS is bubbling away.....

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

That's a nice cheese-cave.
But as others have said, just find the coolest place of the house, place the brett secondary there and forget about it for about a year and you'll be fine.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

That's a nice cheese-cave.
But as others have said, just find the coolest place of the house, place the brett secondary there and forget about it for about a year and you'll be fine.

Will do, thanks Erik.

 

[Miraculix]

Timely guys. I'm about to brew the 1848 Barclay Perkins/Ron Pattinson and have some WLP545 on its way. I was actually going to post a thread on brett temps, but seems fitting here. I've seen somewhere people talking about the long, slow brett secondary taking place at cellar temps, about 55F. Optima for the yeast is obviously much higher. I exchanged with White Labs a bit, and I suggested a long slow cooling from primary temp (using a blend of 1098 and 1099), to the cellar temp and months on Brett, so as not to shock the brett.

Is this reasonable? Or do you guys secondary the brett at higher temps?

He also suggested monitoring the taste - sourness - after a long while on the brett "because the gravity won't change much." My presumption is that he's talking about somehow killing the Brett at a certain point, something I'd rather not do - I'd rather it finish naturally, with balanced funk and acidity. Any guidelines?

Just throw the beer on the brett in a secondary, use an air tight fermenter, place it in a cool corner and forget about it for a year. That's what I did.

 

[Shenanigans]

Hi Guys and Gals,

What's your opinion on Pilgrim hops?
I added 100g of leaf hops to one of my last internet orders as they were highly discounted.
Could I use them in place of the more traditional hops (EKG, Fuggles, Northdown, Challenger) in a typical strong bitter or maybe even some kind of stout?
Are they a nice hop for aroma and dry hopping or better to use them only for bittering?

Thanks!

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Never used it, but looking it up it seems to be a newer variety with some new world-ish qualities.
I'd expect something along the lines of Harlequin,Jester and the like.

 

[Colindo]

Pilgrim has a very mild bittering quality which I like a lot. I would not recommend it for dry-hopping though, as in one of my tests it gave a leafy vegetable flavour, like wild garlic soup.

Never used it late in the boil, maybe there is some more potential there.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Never used it, but looking it up it seems to be a newer variety with some new world-ish qualities.
I'd expect something along the lines of Harlequin,Jester and the like.

No - she's nothing to do with the Faram breeding programme that only cares about flavour, Pilgrim is arguably the culmination of 100 years of hop breeding at Wye College, where agronomy and in particular disease resistance was always a big priority, she's resistant/tolerant to all of the "big three" hop diseases so was intended to take the place of Target in regions where verticillium is a problem. Which in turn makes her arguably one of the most eco-friendly hops as she needs less pesticides than other hops - and then obviously for British brewers she has less food miles than other bittering options like Magnum from Germany.

I've never had a beer with any late Pilgrim, but I'd imagine it would be fairly mild in the Goldings/Challenger direction, as has been said the bittering is nicely rounded, cool kids like Cloudwater use Pilgrim for bittering.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

No - she's nothing to do with the Faram breeding programme that only cares about flavour, Pilgrim is arguably the culmination of 100 years of hop breeding at Wye College, where agronomy and in particular disease resistance was always a big priority, she's resistant/tolerant to all of the "big three" hop diseases so was intended to take the place of Target in regions where verticillium is a problem. Which in turn makes her arguably one of the most eco-friendly hops as she needs less pesticides than other hops - and then obviously for British brewers she has less food miles than other bittering options like Magnum from Germany.

I've never had a beer with any late Pilgrim, but I'd imagine it would be fairly mild in the Goldings/Challenger direction, as has been said the bittering is nicely rounded, cool kids like Cloudwater use Pilgrim for bittering.

Very intrigued and on the hunt. How would you guys compare it to Challenger, in terms of a "clean" and mild bittering quality (not talking late contributions - bittering only, v., say, Target)?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I use challnger as my main bittering hop, aswell as sometimes in later addtions as it is a splendid dual-use variety.
But I don't find it all that clean, it got a little "bite" or harshness to it, obviously not like Target but still somewhat present, wich is why I like it as a bittering hop.

 

[Colindo]

I find Challenger quite mellow, only pure EKG / Fuggle is milder. And Pilgrim follows in the same path as Challenger. Target is significantly harscher.

cool kids like Cloudwater use Pilgrim for bittering.

I believe Otter Ale is also bittered with Pilgrim.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I use challnger as my main bittering hop, aswell as sometimes in later addtions as it is a splendid dual-use variety.
But I don't find it all that clean, it got a little "bite" or harshness to it, obviously not like Target but still somewhat present, wich is why I like it as a bittering hop.

Thanks Erik. Like Colindo I actually find Challenger's bittering quality quite mellow. Of course, I am mad for it as a late hop, all the way through to dry hopping. In fact, tomorrow is the first lager I've brewed in over 20 years, I believe; a festbier at my son's request. And it's going to suck because that ties up the pipeline unless I get a second fermentation fridge. Next up is actually a Coniston's Bluebird, with Ward's here any day from BL. I don't think I can wait - even if it means the second fridge goes in our bedroom. British brewing keeps me going.

 

[Miraculix]

If alcohol just wouldn't be so high caloric....

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I find Challenger quite mellow, only pure EKG / Fuggle is milder. And Pilgrim follows in the same path as Challenger. Target is significantly harscher.

I believe Otter Ale is also bittered with Pilgrim.

This is my hop schedule for Otter Ale that I love.

Hops (75 g)​

30 g (24 IBU) — Challenger 6.5% — Boil — 60 min

20 g (7 IBU) — Fuggles 5% — Boil — 15 min

25 g (2 IBU) — East Kent Goldings (EKG) 5% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 80 °C

 

[Gadjobrinus]

If alcohol just wouldn't be so high caloric....

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Got a mild to brew tomorrow...

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Got a mild to brew tomorrow...

Awesome man. That's in the pipeline for me, too. When my wife and I won the "World Beer Tour" web prize and had the beer dinner with Michael Jackson and Mark Dorber at his pub (White Horse, Parson's Green), first pint Michael chose was a dimpled mug of mild. Haven't had one since but what a storied history and no excuse not to have brewed one by now.

Is it a clone, or your own recipe? I've one from Ron Pattinson, Lee's 1954, and another one from an English brewer here, which by the looks of it, to die for.

I'll say again. I won't be able to wait out the Festbier or any other lagers in the single beer fridge/fermentation chamber. If I am murdered - my wife did it.



Good luck. Would love to see how it goes as you do it!

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

It's my own recipe.

Crisp Vienna as base(this is probably their mild malt renamed Vienna because lol, marketing)
8% Simpson medium crystal
3% Simpson black malt
12% invert 3(made with a mix of white cane, light muscovado and a dash of dark muscovado, some minor caramellisation and maillard darkening during the cook)
Gonna add 50ml of ~9000 ebc caramel in the boil and 15g chocolate malt in the sparge to get it properly dark.

1.034 OG 16 IBU with a 0.75 gram/liter 15min charge of EKG and a 0.5g/liter bobek dry hop.

I've got a late 50's Lee's mild inspired one on tap right now though. Very similair but a bit less crystal and no black but about 7% brown malt.

 

[Brewskey]

Thanks Erik. Like Colindo I actually find Challenger's bittering quality quite mellow. Of course, I am mad for it as a late hop, all the way through to dry hopping. In fact, tomorrow is the first lager I've brewed in over 20 years, I believe; a festbier at my son's request. And it's going to suck because that ties up the pipeline unless I get a second fermentation fridge. Next up is actually a Coniston's Bluebird, with Ward's here any day from BL. I don't think I can wait - even if it means the second fridge goes in our bedroom. British brewing keeps me going.

Ever thought about pressure fermenting those lagers? I've had good luck with it at room temp. You don't need a 2nd fridge that way. Sorry to derail...

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Ever thought about pressure fermenting those lagers? I've had good luck with it at room temp. You don't need a 2nd fridge that way. Sorry to derail...

I've only heard about it and planned to look into it. Wasn't aware you could do it at room temp. Thanks, will look into it!

 

[Gadjobrinus]

It's my own recipe.

Crisp Vienna as base(this is probably their mild malt renamed Vienna because lol, marketing)
8% Simpson medium crystal
3% Simpson black malt
12% invert 3(made with a mix of white cane, light muscovado and a dash of dark muscovado, some minor caramellisation and maillard darkening during the cook)
Gonna add 50ml of ~9000 ebc caramel in the boil and 15g chocolate malt in the sparge to get it properly dark.

1.034 OG 16 IBU with a 0.75 gram/liter 15min charge of EKG and a 0.5g/liter bobek dry hop.

I've got a late 50's Lee's mild inspired one on tap right now though. Very similair but a bit less crystal and no black but about 7% brown malt.

Man, looks fantastic, congrats. Looking forward to more.

Can't remember - the 9000 EBC isn't Brupak, but the other one, right? Where did you get it?

 

[Miraculix]

Awesome man. That's in the pipeline for me, too. When my wife and I won the "World Beer Tour" web prize and had the beer dinner with Michael Jackson and Mark Dorber at his pub (White Horse, Parson's Green), first pint Michael chose was a dimpled mug of mild. Haven't had one since but what a storied history and no excuse not to have brewed one by now.

Is it a clone, or your own recipe? I've one from Ron Pattinson, Lee's 1954, and another one from an English brewer here, which by the looks of it, to die for.

I'll say again. I won't be able to wait out the Festbier or any other lagers in the single beer fridge/fermentation chamber. If I am murdered - my wife did it.



Good luck. Would love to see how it goes as you do it!

If you happen to have kind of reasonable ambient temperatures in your home, you can get away with uncontrolled temperature when brewing lower abv milds. My experience is that the lower abv beers around 3% don't react much to temperature at all, in fact usually they improve a bit when fermented a bit warmer. Yeast expression is limited through the low initial gravity so it's good to up it a bit. It's also usually done in just a few days.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Man, looks fantastic, congrats. Looking forward to more.

Can't remember - the 9000 EBC isn't Brupak, but the other one, right? Where did you get it?

Yes it's the basic non ammonia kind from brewferm. The other one is pushing 30000 ebc...
I've noticed that the base variety of caramel colour actually adds a little flavour when used in higher amounts.

 

[Colindo]

If you happen to have kind of reasonable ambient temperatures in your home, you can get away with uncontrolled temperature when brewing lower abv milds. My experience is that the lower abv beers around 3% don't react much to temperature at all, in fact usually they improve a bit when fermented a bit warmer. Yeast expression is limited through the low initial gravity so it's good to up it a bit. It's also usually done in just a few days.

Correct. Heat production during fermentation is a function of how much sugar is converted at the same time, which is depends on yeast count, sugar concentration and temperature.

 

[eshea3]

I use challnger as my main bittering hop, aswell as sometimes in later addtions as it is a splendid dual-use variety.
But I don't find it all that clean, it got a little "bite" or harshness to it, obviously not like Target but still somewhat present, wich is why I like it as a bittering hop.

I've used pPlgrim for bittering. TBH I really don't notice any significant difference between using any hop at 60+ minutes as long as I get the IBUs correct.

 

[Colindo]

This is my hop schedule for Otter Ale that I love.

Hops (75 g)​

30 g (24 IBU) — Challenger 6.5% — Boil — 60 min

20 g (7 IBU) — Fuggles 5% — Boil — 15 min

25 g (2 IBU) — East Kent Goldings (EKG) 5% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 80 °C

The Real Ale Almanac from 1992 states "Kent Challenger and Fuggles whole hops" as ingredients. So I guess the hopstand is your own addition?

I loved Otter Ale when drinking it during a vacation in 2020, but unfortunately the pub no longer served the ale when I returned. It had a smooth mouthfeel that I never managed to replicate...