I seriously dislike the idea that european beers should be judged by American guidelines. The other way around would also be a disaster if you ask me.
English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?
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Colindo
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I understand where you're coming from and I had the same idea about things for a long time, especially after reading Ron's older blog posts that had literal BJCP wars in their comment section. However after Ron stated in the German forum that the 2021 guidelines were quite decent, I went through their descriptions of British beers quite carefully and must admit they are 99% correct. What more could you ask for?
Also who am I to judge how a bunch of forum users who organise the convention in their free time choose their guidelines? Is it not just the right decision to save time and get a reasonable solution for guidelines that cover world-wide beer styles? I think it is.
As I said, this does not stop me from criticising the BJCP even on that same convention.
Also who am I to judge how a bunch of forum users who organise the convention in their free time choose their guidelines? Is it not just the right decision to save time and get a reasonable solution for guidelines that cover world-wide beer styles? I think it is.
As I said, this does not stop me from criticising the BJCP even on that same convention.
InspectorJon
Well-Known Member
Just curious, is there a European version of BJCP?
Colindo
Well-Known Member
I only know of the CAMRA guidelines, but they are much less detailed. There have been some efforts to consolidate national homebrew clubs' guidelines, but they have not come to fruition yet.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
There's the EBCU style guide which is aimed at drinkers rather than homebrew competitions : EBCU - beer styles |
But it comes down to a basic difference in philosophy, European brewers (particularly the British and Belgians) are far less bound to the concept of fixed "styles" in the first place, let alone trying to nail them down in writing.
But it comes down to a basic difference in philosophy, European brewers (particularly the British and Belgians) are far less bound to the concept of fixed "styles" in the first place, let alone trying to nail them down in writing.
After a Corona mill fail yesterday, I managed to get it running again today and the strong ale is in the fermenter. 1.07 og, Nottingham and a two years expired pack s04 plus 45 ibus from bittering addition only Golding's. 5% Simpsons drc, 5% spelt flour, rest mo and one glass home made invert no. 2. Hochkurz schedule, twenty minutes at 63 C and about 80 minutes at 70C.
Yeast pitched at 18c in a cool room below 15 c without further temperature control. Should be good in about half a year!
Yeast pitched at 18c in a cool room below 15 c without further temperature control. Should be good in about half a year!
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I shudder at the thought of my corona failing
I just gotta ask, how does a Corona mill fail? I use one too and that thing is built! I can't even think of a way it could fail under normal use.
DuncB
Well-Known Member
I think that @Miraculix did some modifications to his mill suggested earlier in the thread. Perhaps they loosened up?
Kind of. The screw that pushes against the rotating disc when tightened (it defines the "mill gap")is actually pushing against a metal ball, which is then pushing against the rotating disc. Makes sense, because otherwise the disc would not be rotating anymore if the screw pushes too tight. However, this ball was held in place by a short piece of spring or metal wire, however you would want to call it. This piece got dislocated and was somehow between the rotating disc and the counter part which is not rotating. This caused a lot of friction and my drill was constantly failing because of lack of power. I opened the gap further... two washers instead of one between the thingys that are holding the discs in place... worked but only 30% of the grain got crushed... so back again to one washer, drill fails... man it was a desaster
. Then It made a noise and suddenly everything went just through uncrushed. I checked and found that the ball went missing, I found it in the grain. Together with the spring-wire type of thing. Rearragned everything, put the ball back into it's place (without the wire), everything crushed and smooth from then on.Btw. looks like high Kräusen already happened within one day. Two packs of yeast on 16.5 litres are doing their thing quickly.
Thumbs up for my highly technical wording please!
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Huh. Mine has no such ball gizmo.
Parallel plates. Washers between the bracket and the housing. Very nice.
AmarikinBrew
LOOK! He's diving into that can of beer AGAIN!
Kind of. The screw that pushes against the rotating disc when tightened (it defines the "mill gap")is actually pushing against a metal ball, which is then pushing against the rotating disc. Makes sense, because otherwise the disc would not be rotating anymore if the screw pushes too tight. However, this ball was held in place by a short piece of spring or metal wire, however you would want to call it. This piece got dislocated and was somehow between the rotating disc and the counter part which is not rotating. This caused a lot of friction and my drill was constantly failing because of lack of power. I opened the gap further... two washers instead of one between the thingys that are holding the discs in place... worked but only 30% of the grain got crushed... so back again to one washer, drill fails... man it was a desaster
Btw. looks like high Kräusen already happened within one day. Two packs of yeast on 16.5 litres are doing their thing quickly.
Thumbs up for my highly technical wording please!
You should name the brew "ScrewBall"
Colindo
Well-Known Member
Brown Ale is supposed to be sweet, so go for it!
The brown ale is to be mashed at 69c, I don't want too much attenuation for that as you said. I meant to maybe tune down the attenuation for my bitters just a little tiny bit.
Colindo
Well-Known Member
Right. Sorry, you wrote it correctly, I just did not read properly.
Not all bitters have to be dry, looking at Fuller's for example. So why not try it out? You used 67°C before to make it as dry as possible, right?
I'm asking because for an unknown reason the english language brewing literature keeps stating that 63°C would be driest, which is incorrect. German brewers have long been using a 67°C rest in their step mashing scheme to make Bock beer drier, because at that temperature some special effect occurs because both amylases are working at the same time.
Not all bitters have to be dry, looking at Fuller's for example. So why not try it out? You used 67°C before to make it as dry as possible, right?
I'm asking because for an unknown reason the english language brewing literature keeps stating that 63°C would be driest, which is incorrect. German brewers have long been using a 67°C rest in their step mashing scheme to make Bock beer drier, because at that temperature some special effect occurs because both amylases are working at the same time.
Yes, that has been my reasoning.
I prefer to brew my bitters more in line with the northern tradition, drier and more bitternes than a typical southern one. But I'd like to reduce the abv a bit and therefore also attenuation in order to not thin it out too much.
I prefer to brew my bitters more in line with the northern tradition, drier and more bitternes than a typical southern one. But I'd like to reduce the abv a bit and therefore also attenuation in order to not thin it out too much.
Colindo
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a good way to go forward.
Bitters are what it says on the can, they’re bitter and they’re dry. Ferment at 65C. Use British hops mainly for bittering. If that’s not for people’s taste then brew something else. For me bitter is the best beer in the world, I alway have my 3 cornies filled with bitter and I bottle everything else.
Yes I am aware, but there are also regional differences. For example Theakston's bitter or the Timothy Taylor LL or Boltmaker are notably drier and more bitter than lets say Fuller LP or Adnams Southwold.
My plan is to reduce the gravity from 1.040 to 1.038 and raise FG to 1.008 from 1.007 for a slightly lower attenuation and hopefully an end product finishing at almost exactly 4% abv.
My plan is to reduce the gravity from 1.040 to 1.038 and raise FG to 1.008 from 1.007 for a slightly lower attenuation and hopefully an end product finishing at almost exactly 4% abv.
I agree with your comment on the diversity of bitter that is what makes it a great drink. Before the global takeover of UK breweries every major town and som small ones had their own brewery. This meant the local brew suited the tastes of that area together with the water and ingredients that were local.
Yeah we used to have a bunch of regional breweries here aswell back in the day.
Mariestads, Zeunerts, Carnegie, etc but they have all been bought up by Pripps and produced at their big factory-brewery now...
Mariestads, Zeunerts, Carnegie, etc but they have all been bought up by Pripps and produced at their big factory-brewery now...
My top 10 favourite UK bitters (includes Golden Ales which is bitter rebranded)
- 5 Points Best
- Summer Lightning
- Timothy Taylor Landlord
- Sussex Bitter
- Jail Ale
- Exmoor Gold
- Tribute
- Otter Ale
- Sea Fury
- Devon Dumpling
I've brewed summer lightning by accident, turned out great, must be a nice beer!
My favourite bottled one was Breakspear bitter. But there were others that were good that I have troubles to remember. Proper job was also good, regional in Newbury. I didn't like tribute though.
It's always this bottle Vs cask thing I guess. Bottled London pride for example is a disaster, if you ask me. However from tap it tastes like heaven. If tribute behaves the same way it would be a great beer from cask.
It's always this bottle Vs cask thing I guess. Bottled London pride for example is a disaster, if you ask me. However from tap it tastes like heaven. If tribute behaves the same way it would be a great beer from cask.
Tribute from cask is a really good beer. Proper Job is really an English IPA ( but the Cornish where it’s brewed don’t claim to be English lol.)
Colindo
Well-Known Member
The only bottles I bought on my last holiday were bottle-conditioned beers and they were all phenomenal. I think it is the pasteurisation which messes up the flavour so much. Though Fuller's doesn't pasteurise, they only make their beers stronger than on cask, which makes them too sweet for me.
Sorry for the resurrection but I've actually never tapped the database and am unclear whether's it's in the recipe section, or another place. I searched for Northern's recipe in the "ales" section of the recipes, and came up empty.
A lot has transpired over the last several years, medical and associated challenges (mild heart attack, mini-strokes, Grave's disease, the usual) and the upshot is that I've forgotten so much of what I once knew. To be truthful, feels like almost everything. Going back to literal brew school and Northern_Brewer has always been a rock solid guide, to me, and I'd love to find this Innkeeper recipe. Can someone point it out? Many thanks.
Brewskey
Well-Known Member
I believe "The Innkeeper" is a recipe kit at northernbrewer.com. Actually I just checked and they still sell that one. The Innkeeper
Recipe Database
Oh, lol, thanks. I'd thought it was a good, basic bitter recipe from member Northern_Brewer here. Cheers for letting me know, Brewskey.
Colindo
Well-Known Member
For the UK residents that are into proper Old Ales, tomorrow is the day when another sell of Prize Old Ale starts, formerly Gale's, now brewed by Dark Star Brewing (Asahi). It is the only Old Ale in the UK that is brewed using the solera system, thereby propagating all the Brettanomyces, Lactobacillus and other beasties from brew to brew.
Last year it sold out within 24h, but I managed to get six bottles and tasted the first one two weeks ago. Currently working on a video of the tasting which I will be happy to post here if there is any interest.
You can get the ale here, sale starts tomorrow: Dark Star Prize Old Ale 500ml Bottle
Article by Martyn Cornell about the history of the beer (incl. recipes): Bittersweet Complexity — The Re-Re-Rebirth of Gales Prize Old Ale — Good Beer Hunting
Last year it sold out within 24h, but I managed to get six bottles and tasted the first one two weeks ago. Currently working on a video of the tasting which I will be happy to post here if there is any interest.
You can get the ale here, sale starts tomorrow: Dark Star Prize Old Ale 500ml Bottle
Article by Martyn Cornell about the history of the beer (incl. recipes): Bittersweet Complexity — The Re-Re-Rebirth of Gales Prize Old Ale — Good Beer Hunting
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Colindo
Well-Known Member
My video is up and running:
A while back I bought a large sack of turbinado sugar to make invert sugar. Due traveling and knee replacement surgery I've not brewed in quite a while and I'm contemplating making my mild in the next week or so. Began to make some invert today and when I add the sugar to the water it's already as dark as a number three or number four. So either I get different sugar and spend a couple hours making invert or just dump in a pound of this turbinado sugar. Any thoughts? I'm strongly leaning towards the latter.
I use turbinado. Yeah, it starts pretty dark. Even in a bitter it doesn't bother me a bit.
Inverting the turbinado will give you glucose which helps the yeast grow and produce esters. If you just heat to 245F (with acid) for 20 or 30min you will not get much if any color change.
Right, but doing so with turbinado starts at ~#3. If you're looking for #2 let alone #1, turbinado starts too dark.
It doesn't bother me at all. If the recipe calls for #1 or #2 I do exactly as you say, but accept that my beer might be a bit darker than intended.
Thanks good idea. I usually use a #3 in my mild anyway
I've been researching the invert making aswell, and have discovered 2 things: the prolonged cooking resulting in partial caramellisation and maillard effects for darkening often present in homebrew lore has no basis in reality.
And invert was usually made by mixing fairly pale somewhat refined sugar with mollases to the different shades of finished invert syrup, at most they let it simmer for a few minutes after adding whatever acid they used.
I personally do not faff about with ac tually inverting the sugar anymore, and just use a mix of light muscovado and white cane sugar for #2 "emulation" and a little dark musco in that mix for #3.
I inverted that mix initially but have not noticed any real difference after switching to just dissolving sugar in some hot wort and adding to the kettel towards end of boil.
And invert was usually made by mixing fairly pale somewhat refined sugar with mollases to the different shades of finished invert syrup, at most they let it simmer for a few minutes after adding whatever acid they used.
I personally do not faff about with ac tually inverting the sugar anymore, and just use a mix of light muscovado and white cane sugar for #2 "emulation" and a little dark musco in that mix for #3.
I inverted that mix initially but have not noticed any real difference after switching to just dissolving sugar in some hot wort and adding to the kettel towards end of boil.
Colindo
Well-Known Member
Source? My research so far has suggested that the combination of inversion and heating does indeed produce caramelisation. No maillard ist correct, since that needs proteins (amino acids). But caramelisation definitely takes place, since Fructose caramelises at 110°C and we create Fructose by the inversion.
If you look at the 1896 paper about invert sugar you'll find that they intensely filter the sugar before the process and during it. My understanding is that they are actually using white sugar for their process and it is only the boil time that creates the colour. Mixing with Molasses is done nowadays, by Ragus for example, but it does not need to mean it was always done like that.
If on the other hand you want a quick invert no 3 and have turbinado at hand, you do not need to bother with inverting first, since adding it at the last 10 min of the boil will cause inversion, since wort is a sour medium.
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