English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Shenanigans]

I brewed an Irish extra stout based on this last weekend:

https://byo.com/wp-content/uploads/woocommerce_uploads/Irish-Extra-Stout.pdf

I only discoverd on brew day that I didn't have enough Fuggles; the quantity in my Beersmith inventory was incorrect.
So I subbed it with some Challenger, which I like in a stout anyway.
My first time using WLP004 but with that grain bill I propabaly wouldn't even notice if I used US-05 or Nottingham instead.

 

[Miraculix]

Iwa

I've been eyeing that recipe aswell. Next Stout will probably be that but with half the amount of amber and a bit more sugar...

You're doing what I've thought when reading the recipe!

 

[Miraculix]

Romrod near Frankfurt. I think there are some tickets left. Heimbrau Convention – 4. Heimbrau Convention auf Schloss Romrod

Sorry mate, but I'm not going to participate in a German event that is based on bjcp rules. No way they are getting a single cent out of my pocket.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

You're doing what I've thought when reading the recipe!

Great minds think alike!

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Sorry mate, but I'm not going to participate in a German event that is based on bjcp rules. No way they are getting a single cent out of my pocket.

To be fair though, the BJCP have a lot more reasonable guidelines for European styles in their latest edition.
Probably because of all the conplaints on forums like this etc...

 

[Brewskey]

Does anyone here have experience brewing stock ales for blending with fresh beer? In short, I want to brew a stock ale and age it on Brett C. for a year. Then I’ll brew a fresh “running” beer and blend them. Sounds simple enough, but I’ve never played with Brett before. I haven’t decided on a recipe or even which types of beer yet, just want to get a better understanding of the process before I get started. I’ll list my questions below, thank you for any advice.

• Some of the stock ale recipes on Ron’s blog have an extremely high FG. Should I shoot for a high FG? I also saw some forum posts about Brett C. taking beers down to 1.005 and that wouldn't be appropriate for many of these beers I don't think.

• How much brett should I pitch? I saw a post where @Northern_Brewer recommended using a light hand with brett to avoid it overpowering everything else.

• After I blend and bottle the two beers do you prime as usual? It seems that the brett would go to work on the running beer it was blended with and I’d prefer to avoid exploding bottles or excessive carbonation if possible.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I have a stock ale in secondary right now, it went from 1.080 down to 1.007 if my refractometer conversion is true, will test with hydrometer when I bottle next week.
And an Imperial Stout that was inoculated with a shotglass of old ale.

1. If you want to brew a true to style you should go with only Chevalier and 10-15% (cane) sugar, or only malt if you shoot for a pre 1880 one. An old ale oriented one might get away with a few % of black, brown or crystal also.
Regarding FG those listed are racking gravities, tested when the beer was put in the barrel, they usually racked with a few points left to go so always expect the actual FG to be a little lower than advised for historical recipes. More sugar means more work for the brett but shoot for a normal 70-75% AA would be my advice.

I don't know if you've ever tried any old style old or stock ale, like Thomas Hardy's or Gale's Prize, but they are quite dry, although brett like a saision produces glycerol making the beer seem less dry than it actually is.

2.
A tube of brett C is plenty enough, no starter needed, and you can time brewing to inocculate other batches with a shotglass of the going one in the future. Brett is hardy and managed to get secondary fermentations going from a few cells clinging in a wooden barrel for dear life.

3.
Yes, the brett in the aged beer will eat the sugar in a running beer, bottle in 33cl bottles and blend in the glass if you wish to blend it.

 

[Brewskey]

I have a stock ale in secondary right now, it went from 1.080 down to 1.007 if my refractometer conversion is true, will test with hydrometer when I bottle next week.
And an Imperial Stout that was inoculated with a shotglass of old ale.

1. If you want to brew a true to style you should go with only Chevalier and 10-15% (cane) sugar, or only malt if you shoot for a pre 1880 one. An old ale oriented one might get away with a few % of black, brown or crystal also.
Regarding FG those listed are racking gravities, tested when the beer was put in the barrel, they usually racked with a few points left to go so always expect the actual FG to be a little lower than advised for historical recipes. More sugar means more work for the brett but shoot for a normal 70-75% AA would be my advice.

I don't know if you've ever tried any old style old or stock ale, like Thomas Hardy's or Gale's Prize, but they are quite dry, although brett like a saision produces glycerol making the beer seem less dry than it actually is.

2.
A tube of brett C is plenty enough, no starter needed, and you can time brewing to inocculate other batches with a shotglass of the going one in the future. Brett is hardy and managed to get secondary fermentations going from a few cells clinging in a wooden barrel for dear life.

3.
Yes, the brett in the aged beer will eat the sugar in a running beer, bottle in 33cl bottles and blend in the glass if you wish to blend it.

Thank you for the detailed response. Unfortunately, living on the Alabama Gulf Coast I haven't had an opportunity to try and real English old or stock ales. I’ll have to try and brew one myself. I have the Chevalier and I can make invert from cane sugar. I guess I just need to order some Brett. How do you think the breweries went about blending stock/running ales? Is it that they blended and sent them to the pubs for immediate consumption so that the brett didn’t have much time to work on the running beer they were blended with? Just my guess.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

My understanding is that you either drank it unblended in half pints or blended it with draught mild in the pub.

 

[Colindo]

Sorry mate, but I'm not going to participate in a German event that is based on bjcp rules. No way they are getting a single cent out of my pocket.

That's just for the competition, which is like 10% of the content there. I used to hate BJCP, but as long as I can rant about them during the British beer tasting, which I'm presenting, I'm fine with how the convention is run. As an aside, it is also non-profit.

Also as Erik mentioned the 2021 guidelines have a lot of Ron's shouting about historical mistakes in them, so they are pretty correct.

 

[Miraculix]

I seriously dislike the idea that european beers should be judged by American guidelines. The other way around would also be a disaster if you ask me.

 

[Colindo]

I understand where you're coming from and I had the same idea about things for a long time, especially after reading Ron's older blog posts that had literal BJCP wars in their comment section. However after Ron stated in the German forum that the 2021 guidelines were quite decent, I went through their descriptions of British beers quite carefully and must admit they are 99% correct. What more could you ask for?

Also who am I to judge how a bunch of forum users who organise the convention in their free time choose their guidelines? Is it not just the right decision to save time and get a reasonable solution for guidelines that cover world-wide beer styles? I think it is.

As I said, this does not stop me from criticising the BJCP even on that same convention.

 

[InspectorJon]

Just curious, is there a European version of BJCP?

 

[Colindo]

Just curious, is there a European version of BJCP?

I only know of the CAMRA guidelines, but they are much less detailed. There have been some efforts to consolidate national homebrew clubs' guidelines, but they have not come to fruition yet.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

There's the EBCU style guide which is aimed at drinkers rather than homebrew competitions : EBCU - beer styles |

But it comes down to a basic difference in philosophy, European brewers (particularly the British and Belgians) are far less bound to the concept of fixed "styles" in the first place, let alone trying to nail them down in writing.

 

[Miraculix]

After a Corona mill fail yesterday, I managed to get it running again today and the strong ale is in the fermenter. 1.07 og, Nottingham and a two years expired pack s04 plus 45 ibus from bittering addition only Golding's. 5% Simpsons drc, 5% spelt flour, rest mo and one glass home made invert no. 2. Hochkurz schedule, twenty minutes at 63 C and about 80 minutes at 70C.

Yeast pitched at 18c in a cool room below 15 c without further temperature control. Should be good in about half a year!

 

[balrog]

I shudder at the thought of my corona failing

 

[brewSJ]

I just gotta ask, how does a Corona mill fail? I use one too and that thing is built! I can't even think of a way it could fail under normal use.

 

[DuncB]

I just gotta ask, how does a Corona mill fail? I use one too and that thing is built! I can't even think of a way it could fail under normal use.

I think that @Miraculix did some modifications to his mill suggested earlier in the thread. Perhaps they loosened up?

 

[Miraculix]

I think that @Miraculix did some modifications to his mill suggested earlier in the thread. Perhaps they loosened up?

Kind of. The screw that pushes against the rotating disc when tightened (it defines the "mill gap")is actually pushing against a metal ball, which is then pushing against the rotating disc. Makes sense, because otherwise the disc would not be rotating anymore if the screw pushes too tight. However, this ball was held in place by a short piece of spring or metal wire, however you would want to call it. This piece got dislocated and was somehow between the rotating disc and the counter part which is not rotating. This caused a lot of friction and my drill was constantly failing because of lack of power. I opened the gap further... two washers instead of one between the thingys that are holding the discs in place... worked but only 30% of the grain got crushed... so back again to one washer, drill fails... man it was a desaster . Then It made a noise and suddenly everything went just through uncrushed. I checked and found that the ball went missing, I found it in the grain. Together with the spring-wire type of thing. Rearragned everything, put the ball back into it's place (without the wire), everything crushed and smooth from then on.
Btw. looks like high Kräusen already happened within one day. Two packs of yeast on 16.5 litres are doing their thing quickly.

Thumbs up for my highly technical wording please!

 

[balrog]

Huh. Mine has no such ball gizmo.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Parallel plates. Washers between the bracket and the housing. Very nice.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Kind of. The screw that pushes against the rotating disc when tightened (it defines the "mill gap")is actually pushing against a metal ball, which is then pushing against the rotating disc. Makes sense, because otherwise the disc would not be rotating anymore if the screw pushes too tight. However, this ball was held in place by a short piece of spring or metal wire, however you would want to call it. This piece got dislocated and was somehow between the rotating disc and the counter part which is not rotating. This caused a lot of friction and my drill was constantly failing because of lack of power. I opened the gap further... two washers instead of one between the thingys that are holding the discs in place... worked but only 30% of the grain got crushed... so back again to one washer, drill fails... man it was a desaster . Then It made a noise and suddenly everything went just through uncrushed. I checked and found that the ball went missing, I found it in the grain. Together with the spring-wire type of thing. Rearragned everything, put the ball back into it's place (without the wire), everything crushed and smooth from then on.
Btw. looks like high Kräusen already happened within one day. Two packs of yeast on 16.5 litres are doing their thing quickly.

Thumbs up for my highly technical wording please!

You should name the brew "ScrewBall"

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Kegged a batch of bitter today, gonna brew a brown ale tomorrow.
Thinking about doing a gravity reduction in my house bitter and mashing at 68 instead of 67c to bring down abv just a tiny bit.

 

[Colindo]

Brown Ale is supposed to be sweet, so go for it!

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

The brown ale is to be mashed at 69c, I don't want too much attenuation for that as you said. I meant to maybe tune down the attenuation for my bitters just a little tiny bit.

 

[Colindo]

Right. Sorry, you wrote it correctly, I just did not read properly.

Not all bitters have to be dry, looking at Fuller's for example. So why not try it out? You used 67°C before to make it as dry as possible, right?

I'm asking because for an unknown reason the english language brewing literature keeps stating that 63°C would be driest, which is incorrect. German brewers have long been using a 67°C rest in their step mashing scheme to make Bock beer drier, because at that temperature some special effect occurs because both amylases are working at the same time.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Yes, that has been my reasoning.
I prefer to brew my bitters more in line with the northern tradition, drier and more bitternes than a typical southern one. But I'd like to reduce the abv a bit and therefore also attenuation in order to not thin it out too much.

 

[Colindo]

Sounds like a good way to go forward.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Bitters are what it says on the can, they’re bitter and they’re dry. Ferment at 65C. Use British hops mainly for bittering. If that’s not for people’s taste then brew something else. For me bitter is the best beer in the world, I alway have my 3 cornies filled with bitter and I bottle everything else.