jack13
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hahah...good point! I'm spending less; they are spending MUCH less!
"you won't save money homebrewing"
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hahah...good point! I'm spending less; they are spending MUCH less!
50calshooter
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I save a ton of money. Including all the extra stuff like propane it cost me about 30 bucks to brew a five gallon batch. All grain w/mashing and sparging. I don’t buy in bulk. I don’t buy kits. I buy what I need for the batch. But, I built my system. Gauges and valves is all I bought.
You can make great beer with minimal toys as long as you take it seriously. How much you want to spend on gear is up to you.
All grain ingredients are dirt cheap especially if you buy bulk and repitch yeast. But that takes time.
Extract brewing is quite fast and needs less gear, but you'll pay more for ingredients.
You'll cut down the time expense by increasing your batch size. Without exaggeration, it takes me the same amount of time (about 6 hours) to brew 5 gallons, 10 gallons, 310 gallons, or 930 gallons.
Of course bigger batches mean more expensive equipment.
I made some excellent beers with an all-gravity three vessel (two kettles and a cooler) all-grain system sized for 5-10 gals with a 50' immersion chiller and swamp coolers that cost less than $1000 in its entirety. Only pump involved was a pond pump to push ice water through the chiller instead of tap water, and only needed that in the summer. Even used it commercially as a pilot system for a couple years (with the addition of a few Brew Jacket systems in lieu of swamp coolers because the then powers that be didn't wanna fork out for conicals tied into the glycol...).
Make that up with smaller things like a solid thermometer (Thermapen FTW), pH meter (can't go wrong with the Milwaukee MW102), stir plate, pure O2 system etc. before you start forking out on a fancy brewing system.
Now, the other factor is "I'll buy less beer if I brew at home" which I've found 100% not the case for me, or most others. A minority claim they no longer buy beer but not sure how much I believe that. "Research" is a thing.
All grain ingredients are dirt cheap especially if you buy bulk and repitch yeast. But that takes time.
Extract brewing is quite fast and needs less gear, but you'll pay more for ingredients.
You'll cut down the time expense by increasing your batch size. Without exaggeration, it takes me the same amount of time (about 6 hours) to brew 5 gallons, 10 gallons, 310 gallons, or 930 gallons.
Of course bigger batches mean more expensive equipment.
I made some excellent beers with an all-gravity three vessel (two kettles and a cooler) all-grain system sized for 5-10 gals with a 50' immersion chiller and swamp coolers that cost less than $1000 in its entirety. Only pump involved was a pond pump to push ice water through the chiller instead of tap water, and only needed that in the summer. Even used it commercially as a pilot system for a couple years (with the addition of a few Brew Jacket systems in lieu of swamp coolers because the then powers that be didn't wanna fork out for conicals tied into the glycol...).
Make that up with smaller things like a solid thermometer (Thermapen FTW), pH meter (can't go wrong with the Milwaukee MW102), stir plate, pure O2 system etc. before you start forking out on a fancy brewing system.
Now, the other factor is "I'll buy less beer if I brew at home" which I've found 100% not the case for me, or most others. A minority claim they no longer buy beer but not sure how much I believe that. "Research" is a thing.
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Ultimately, each brewer will have to decide for them self whether they're saving money or not. Even when you factor in time - because each brewer can decide for them self what their time is worth.
The real challenge I have for many brewers out there is how much money have you put towards equipment, tools, and toys without improving the quality of your beer? Many of us have reached the threshold where our beer hasn't improved but our disposable income and piqued interest has not been satisfied.
But it's a hobby - improving your process and collecting is a part of the fun... right?
The real challenge I have for many brewers out there is how much money have you put towards equipment, tools, and toys without improving the quality of your beer? Many of us have reached the threshold where our beer hasn't improved but our disposable income and piqued interest has not been satisfied.
But it's a hobby - improving your process and collecting is a part of the fun... right?
OP
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devilssoninlaw
Well-Known Member
I've also discovered not to go around telling everyone that you're brewing beer. I always get the " Oh man, bring me a few, I'd love to try it".
From now on, I'm flying under the radar!!
From now on, I'm flying under the radar!!
I used to calculate cost of every beer I made by calculating what the retail cost would be to cover ingredients, equipment wear, and overhead based on a formula heard on the Food Network.
And most recipes came out at the same retail has craft beers.
So as long as you continue to dedicate the time and labor costs of making it.
You save money on every craft six pack you don’t buy.
If you want to save money over big producers like Miller or Bud, you’ll need to stick to Midwest Supplies “Simply Beer” recipes at $20 each.
But if you ever stop and leave the equipment unused in the basement and buy beer… economically speaking, you’re losing money every purchase.
And most recipes came out at the same retail has craft beers.
So as long as you continue to dedicate the time and labor costs of making it.
You save money on every craft six pack you don’t buy.
If you want to save money over big producers like Miller or Bud, you’ll need to stick to Midwest Supplies “Simply Beer” recipes at $20 each.
But if you ever stop and leave the equipment unused in the basement and buy beer… economically speaking, you’re losing money every purchase.
I’m around 125 batches in, and still haven’t bothered upgrading equipment from my first BIAB setup, which set me back around $80. I do have a kegerator and a fermentation chest freezer, but my total hard costs are well under $1000. An average 5g batch costs me $15-25 (although I can do an ordinary bitter for maybe $6-7), and I do it while gardening, baking, etc., so it absolutely saves me money. It’s not like if I decided not to brew I’d rush out and bill 6 more hours of time.
Brewernaut51
Well-Known Member
I'd say just on the beer alone most of us save money. Personally I think I'm closer to breaking even than saving money. More often than not I can brew a beer for half commercial price from a store. Even bigger savings vs a bar/brewpub. It's equipment upgrades, CO2, cleaners, etc that pushes me towards the break even range.
It's like any commercial brewery. You have an initial investment that takes time to pay for itself. Once it does you're often likely to expand/upgrade to meet needs/demands just like a commercial brewery. That's why their beer costs so much compared to ingredients.
The biggest savings for me usually come from cloning those expensive big aged beers like Founder's barrel aged series. That stuff costs 25 bucks or more for a 4 pack but I can brew 5gal for a fraction of what I'd spend on 2 cases of KBS or whatever. Maybe the folks laughing at the idea of saving money aren't thinking of beers like that?
It's like any commercial brewery. You have an initial investment that takes time to pay for itself. Once it does you're often likely to expand/upgrade to meet needs/demands just like a commercial brewery. That's why their beer costs so much compared to ingredients.
The biggest savings for me usually come from cloning those expensive big aged beers like Founder's barrel aged series. That stuff costs 25 bucks or more for a 4 pack but I can brew 5gal for a fraction of what I'd spend on 2 cases of KBS or whatever. Maybe the folks laughing at the idea of saving money aren't thinking of beers like that?
the cost of equipment even for basic brew in a bag stuff does add up. but i view it as not a consumable so it could be used by my wife for jelly and such so it will not go to waste. I started brewing because the beer the closest brewery makes seems light/watery to me. Does not have enough bitter or else not enough mouthfeel.
As to kits, some of the places have been having 5 gallon extract kits on sale three for $60. not bad when 5 gallons of beer costs $20. I dont think it includes the price of the yeast.
As to kits, some of the places have been having 5 gallon extract kits on sale three for $60. not bad when 5 gallons of beer costs $20. I dont think it includes the price of the yeast.
Numsquat
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I know I'm saving money comparing 1/6 barrel commercial kegs to homebrew cornies. I brew 10gal batches. My wife loves her IPA's, I like them but like a much wider variety of styles. So I have one tap to buy commercial kegs (1/6b) that pretty much is for commercial IPA's ($88 to $120) for my wife which keeps her happy. My average cost for 10g batch homebrew is around $55 for the beers I like to drink/pretty much brew. This will go up a little since I moved to Florida from NW Iowa, used to be able to drive 3 hours north and get Rahr 50lb bags for less than $30 and buy $210+ at a time but even if I'm spending $88 for a 10g batch, it's still half price of commercial kegs here in Florida. Each batch I do calculate my total cost, even water, gas, electricity, ect that may only be pennies on average. Somethings may be estimates but I don't care.
I don't figure in my time for my cost but do figure everything else it takes to brew that batch. People who figure in their time and aren't professional brewers are idiots because then it's a hobby, not a profession. I cater BBQ and I add in my labor time. When I use to compete in the KCBS (still a KCBS judge) I didn't add my contest time as an expense until I started catering (because of competing for fun versus competing for advertising). Seriously, do people figure their hourly wage into mowing their yard or similar activities.
Another important fact for me is that I can't get some styles I may want around here (bottle, can or keg) that I like. I love me some Kolsh but I can only get some (commercially and then seasonally) from a local brewery (local as in 30 minutes away) or some Alt which no one has around here (use to get in Minnesota though) so I brew my own which has no cost comparison. So availability plays into the cost issue.
I don't figure in my time for my cost but do figure everything else it takes to brew that batch. People who figure in their time and aren't professional brewers are idiots because then it's a hobby, not a profession. I cater BBQ and I add in my labor time. When I use to compete in the KCBS (still a KCBS judge) I didn't add my contest time as an expense until I started catering (because of competing for fun versus competing for advertising). Seriously, do people figure their hourly wage into mowing their yard or similar activities.
Another important fact for me is that I can't get some styles I may want around here (bottle, can or keg) that I like. I love me some Kolsh but I can only get some (commercially and then seasonally) from a local brewery (local as in 30 minutes away) or some Alt which no one has around here (use to get in Minnesota though) so I brew my own which has no cost comparison. So availability plays into the cost issue.
It depends on how and what you brew. A 750 mL of imported Belgian beer will set you back $10+ stateside, whereas you can find BMC for less than $0.50 per can. I don’t pretend to make amazing beer, but it’s at least comparable to your average craft beer dispensary, and much more economical...
Grains (10 lb @ $1.15/lb) - $11.50
Yeast (Wyeast or White Labs) - $8.00
Hops (4 oz @ $1.25/oz) - $6.00
Water (8 gal RO @ $0.39/gal) - $3.20
Electric (8 kWh @ $0.12/kWh) - $0.96
= <$30 / 5 gal ~ $0.55 / beer
I realize that the savings from making my own beer is paltry compared to the $3k+ I’ve sunk into my game, but I’m inclined to believe that my brewing choices are far more open than my choices as a consumer. And that’s a price I’m willing to put a premium on.
Grains (10 lb @ $1.15/lb) - $11.50
Yeast (Wyeast or White Labs) - $8.00
Hops (4 oz @ $1.25/oz) - $6.00
Water (8 gal RO @ $0.39/gal) - $3.20
Electric (8 kWh @ $0.12/kWh) - $0.96
= <$30 / 5 gal ~ $0.55 / beer
I realize that the savings from making my own beer is paltry compared to the $3k+ I’ve sunk into my game, but I’m inclined to believe that my brewing choices are far more open than my choices as a consumer. And that’s a price I’m willing to put a premium on.
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devilssoninlaw
Well-Known Member
I've always wondered about this one.....why breweries charge you twice as much to sip a pint of suds at their establishment.
When I could save money by having them bottle it, pay a distributer, let the retailer make his cut and I only pay half as much.
They use the same equipment and facility, and they get to re-use the mug.Now I know why I don't hang out in the bars or breweries.
Murphys_Law
Well-Known Member
I have 2 or 3 buckets and 2 fermonsters but I’m now looking at the SS Brew Bucket BME “just because”.
This is why I’ll never save money as a home brewer.
This is why I’ll never save money as a home brewer.
Just bought one. Pull the trigger
I've always wondered about this one.....why breweries charge you twice as much to sip a pint of suds at their establishment.
When I could save money by having them bottle it, pay a distributer, let the retailer make his cut and I only pay half as much.
Now I know why I don't hang out in the bars or breweries.
Because they have to add Bartenders, Servers, etc to the picture.
Cost per beer for Bar Staff is going to be much higher than cost per beer for distributors.
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devilssoninlaw
Well-Known Member
....and I thought they worked for tips!
I've also discovered not to go around telling everyone that you're brewing beer. I always get the " Oh man, bring me a few, I'd love to try it".
From now on, I'm flying under the radar!!
Hah totally feel you on that one, when I first got into the hobby I talked about it a lot. Now? When I make a great beer I try to be as hush about it as possible
Though I do give away some of my beers when I need to bottle another batch and I have a bottle shortage going on lol. Usually easy to do by passing a 6 pack to a friend I know who willl easily kill it in a couple days and is good about returning the bottles
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Mer-man
Well-Known Member
I have a pretty simple setup but I don't skimp on ingredients.
Don't give a monk's behind if it's cost effective because knowing my hourly rate, prob not. It's about the joy of creating something tasty...
And sharing that with people.
Don't give a monk's behind if it's cost effective because knowing my hourly rate, prob not. It's about the joy of creating something tasty...
And sharing that with people.
Mer-man
Well-Known Member
I've always wondered about this one.....why breweries charge you twice as much to sip a pint of suds at their establishment.
When I could save money by having them bottle it, pay a distributer, let the retailer make his cut and I only pay half as much.
Now I know why I don't hang out in the bars or breweries.
Shut up or those 7000 taprooms are going under next month!
user 40839
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I just ran the numbers. Pun intended, sobering reading.
I am currently up to about $7,500 or so in equipment. Brutus 10 clone with pumps, burners, solenoids, fittings, hoses, etc... about $2,000. New Spike kettles to replace my keggles for Christmas, about $750. Two SS Brewtech BME Chronicals with all the heating and cooling stuff, about $2,000. Glycol chiller, $1,000. Keezer build with taps, etc., about $1,000. Then another $750 or so in various bits - cornies, mill, other equipment, etc. That's what's in the brewery now - doesn't include stuff that I've used in the past and since sold on. (Keggles, cooler tun, etc.)
I've done about 50 batches in my homebrewing career, spanning about 8 years. (Am currently coming back from a three year hiatus, couldn't find the free time with a new daughter). Ingredients for an average 10 gallon batch runs me about $35. So my 50 batches has set me back $1,750 in ingredients. That's a grand total of $9,250 spent to garner 500 gallons of beer. 64,000 ounces. That equates to 5,333 beers. So $1.73 a beer, or $10.38 a six pack - which is about what the going rate for a decent sixer of IPA is.
So on the surface, could say that "nope, haven't really saved anything." But.
I've made some great friends who are brewers. (Notably @Ricand if he's still about on here!). I got to learn and grow - built the brewstand myself, learning to weld stainless. I've built kegerators that people have offered me money for. And I've had the pleasure of having many other friends taste my beer, look shocked, and say "Holy ****, you MADE THIS?!?!? This is AMAZING!!!" My brewing has progressed from that first partial extract kit I bought with a buddy, through all grain batches with a turkey fryer and an igloo cooler with copper manifold and cheap brass fittings, to what I have now. And my beer has progressed from people tasting it, making a face and saying "It's not bad" to me being able to say without any bragging, that it's as good as you can buy in any store. (Well, most stores!)
And even if I woke up in the morning and said "Nah, finished with all this", I could put all my gear up for sale and likely I'd be talking about less than a dollar a beer.
Instead, I'll keep on brewing for myself and my friends - and with the gear already there I just worry about ingredients. Which, like I said, is about $35 a batch. 33 cents a beer. 33 cents a damn GOOD beer.
I'm alright with that.
I am currently up to about $7,500 or so in equipment. Brutus 10 clone with pumps, burners, solenoids, fittings, hoses, etc... about $2,000. New Spike kettles to replace my keggles for Christmas, about $750. Two SS Brewtech BME Chronicals with all the heating and cooling stuff, about $2,000. Glycol chiller, $1,000. Keezer build with taps, etc., about $1,000. Then another $750 or so in various bits - cornies, mill, other equipment, etc. That's what's in the brewery now - doesn't include stuff that I've used in the past and since sold on. (Keggles, cooler tun, etc.)
I've done about 50 batches in my homebrewing career, spanning about 8 years. (Am currently coming back from a three year hiatus, couldn't find the free time with a new daughter). Ingredients for an average 10 gallon batch runs me about $35. So my 50 batches has set me back $1,750 in ingredients. That's a grand total of $9,250 spent to garner 500 gallons of beer. 64,000 ounces. That equates to 5,333 beers. So $1.73 a beer, or $10.38 a six pack - which is about what the going rate for a decent sixer of IPA is.
So on the surface, could say that "nope, haven't really saved anything." But.
I've made some great friends who are brewers. (Notably @Ricand if he's still about on here!). I got to learn and grow - built the brewstand myself, learning to weld stainless. I've built kegerators that people have offered me money for. And I've had the pleasure of having many other friends taste my beer, look shocked, and say "Holy ****, you MADE THIS?!?!? This is AMAZING!!!" My brewing has progressed from that first partial extract kit I bought with a buddy, through all grain batches with a turkey fryer and an igloo cooler with copper manifold and cheap brass fittings, to what I have now. And my beer has progressed from people tasting it, making a face and saying "It's not bad" to me being able to say without any bragging, that it's as good as you can buy in any store. (Well, most stores!)
And even if I woke up in the morning and said "Nah, finished with all this", I could put all my gear up for sale and likely I'd be talking about less than a dollar a beer.
Instead, I'll keep on brewing for myself and my friends - and with the gear already there I just worry about ingredients. Which, like I said, is about $35 a batch. 33 cents a beer. 33 cents a damn GOOD beer.
I'm alright with that.
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Hah totally feel you on that one, when I first got into the hobby I talked about it a lot. Now? When I make a great beer I try to be as hush about it as possible
Though I do give away some of my beers when I need to bottle another batch and I have a bottle shortage going on lol. Usually easy to do by passing a 6 pack to a friend I know who willl easily kill it in a couple days and is good about returning the bottles
I have the same issue--especially when I want to kill a keg to make room for more. I just bought a 32-oz growler and it's....cute. Also about 2 2/3 bottles worth. I have more coming from my LHBS. I suspect it might be an easier and more effective way to share some beer. A whole 64-oz growler might be too much for people to consume before the air gets to it...but a 32-ouncer is just about right.
With modern yeast, (for example MJ california Lager), it is easily possible to make a good and clean type of lager without temperature control and with only base malt and a cheap bittering hop addition. Will be good and really cheap. So yeah, even if you count in the bucket and other equipment, I guess after one or two batches you are already in the +!
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I don't factor time into it. I do it cause i enjoy it (well except for the clean up). I wouldn't count mine time into any other hobby so why this one.
Unless you are doing purely to try and save money on beer.
I still save on my end, most 16 oz cans of ipa's are $5. I just brewed 10 gallons for about $65. i could lose all my equipment and buy it again for what i saved, not counting the kegging supplies
applescrap
Be the ball!
You are brilliant denny and i love your work but this i cant go along with. I have heard you time and time again state that you still use your cooler that you made. I don't know what it cost you all those years ago or if it was free but wasn't your whole thing how to brew on the cheap and how to make your cooler. I started on a $12 Walmart pot. I Googled the cheapest bass boats and I think they are about 20,000$. So Brewing to save money is nothing like buying a $20,000 bass boat in my opinion. Furthermore and I'm not talking to you I see these kind of comparisons too often. I was telling my buddy how I like to buy organic food and how I think people should buy more expensive food. He started talking about Corvettes vs Kia's $40,000 price differences in cars.
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applescrap
Be the ball!
I started Brewing to save money. I did then and I still do. Although it's costing a little more as I want better ingredients. I used my old mr. Beer kegs as fermenters a 4 gallon stainless steel pot from Walmart that cost $12 and a bag. I was chilling in my sink. I started with a 50 lb sack of grain and a pound of hops and I was off and running.
Eventually I had to spend some money. As everyone knows Brewing quick is my thing so I pieced together a 5500 Watt system. It wasn't the cheapest but it was not expensive either. To me my time was worth a little more expense. In fact I will probably pay for a zymatic someday. I know that at that point I won't be saving money but I like drinking Homebrew and am willing to pay a little more for my time. I will probably buy it used and I'm sure over time I will save money again especially considering how expensive beer has gotten.
When I first got on this forum somewhere on the way I think I accidentally insulted somebody for having an abundance of equipment. It's pretty sad really that I would do that but I think I was just trying to help. I wanted to say hey why are you doing that you could make beer on your stove for $12. In my stupid naivety I hadn't realized all the reasons why people are into this aspect of brewing. I think Denny's book says it all. People home brew for many different reasons and for many I think building stuff is one of the reasons. It's a hobby. There is a joy of ownership, quality, ease-of-use, consistency and versatility that comes with quality gear. I realized what an idiot I was for not seeing that Brewing isn't just only about the beer for many.
I don't like Brewing and I've been very forthcoming in that. I don't at all. I'm lazy and I don't like to work. I do however like to drink beer. I also like to make beer for cheaper. If I had a really expensive system or a zymatic I might enjoy Brewing more. I think having a set up somewhere so I didn't have to drag anything around would also help.
There is some nature that plays a role in Brewing. I brew entirely manually and realize that not everybody can pick up 13 gallons of fluid with ease. Depending on someone strength and size they may need different equipment.
Bottom line is that there 99 ways to do this and almost all of them work. But to be very clear with a modest amount of equipment home brewing can be done cheaply. Especially here in Colorado where we can boil on our stoves at our high altitude. Someone can start with a small pot, a bag, and chill in the sink.
The biggest problem with all this is those that have spent money on their systems can sometines think that they make better beer than others. And people spend very little can have a chip on their shoulders. Ultimately the beer trumps all. But in reality if having equipment, buying new equipment, and having fun in that respect bring someone happiness, that is what it is all about, and the beer isn't the only important aspect . Just like golf has been mentioned. I would buy $1,500 clubs absolutely and wouldn't even think twice about it. I also want a $15,000 RV that we will use twice a year. So who the hell am I to judge. There are members here that can show people how to make electric Brewing setups where the PID setup is like $100.
Ultimately, I want to be the kind of person that is really happy for someone who buys a $10,000 PID because it makes them happy. And it's something that will bring them Joy. Not someone who thinks they're a fool. By the way I would love a $10,000 setup. If I came into a ton of money...... I would probably just buy a zymatic[emoji6] happy 4th
Eventually I had to spend some money. As everyone knows Brewing quick is my thing so I pieced together a 5500 Watt system. It wasn't the cheapest but it was not expensive either. To me my time was worth a little more expense. In fact I will probably pay for a zymatic someday. I know that at that point I won't be saving money but I like drinking Homebrew and am willing to pay a little more for my time. I will probably buy it used and I'm sure over time I will save money again especially considering how expensive beer has gotten.
When I first got on this forum somewhere on the way I think I accidentally insulted somebody for having an abundance of equipment. It's pretty sad really that I would do that but I think I was just trying to help. I wanted to say hey why are you doing that you could make beer on your stove for $12. In my stupid naivety I hadn't realized all the reasons why people are into this aspect of brewing. I think Denny's book says it all. People home brew for many different reasons and for many I think building stuff is one of the reasons. It's a hobby. There is a joy of ownership, quality, ease-of-use, consistency and versatility that comes with quality gear. I realized what an idiot I was for not seeing that Brewing isn't just only about the beer for many.
I don't like Brewing and I've been very forthcoming in that. I don't at all. I'm lazy and I don't like to work. I do however like to drink beer. I also like to make beer for cheaper. If I had a really expensive system or a zymatic I might enjoy Brewing more. I think having a set up somewhere so I didn't have to drag anything around would also help.
There is some nature that plays a role in Brewing. I brew entirely manually and realize that not everybody can pick up 13 gallons of fluid with ease. Depending on someone strength and size they may need different equipment.
Bottom line is that there 99 ways to do this and almost all of them work. But to be very clear with a modest amount of equipment home brewing can be done cheaply. Especially here in Colorado where we can boil on our stoves at our high altitude. Someone can start with a small pot, a bag, and chill in the sink.
The biggest problem with all this is those that have spent money on their systems can sometines think that they make better beer than others. And people spend very little can have a chip on their shoulders. Ultimately the beer trumps all. But in reality if having equipment, buying new equipment, and having fun in that respect bring someone happiness, that is what it is all about, and the beer isn't the only important aspect . Just like golf has been mentioned. I would buy $1,500 clubs absolutely and wouldn't even think twice about it. I also want a $15,000 RV that we will use twice a year. So who the hell am I to judge. There are members here that can show people how to make electric Brewing setups where the PID setup is like $100.
Ultimately, I want to be the kind of person that is really happy for someone who buys a $10,000 PID because it makes them happy. And it's something that will bring them Joy. Not someone who thinks they're a fool. By the way I would love a $10,000 setup. If I came into a ton of money...... I would probably just buy a zymatic[emoji6] happy 4th
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I keep seeing references to what your time is worth. Unless you would be doing something that earns $$. Your time is worth exactly $0.00.
Whether you can save any money homebrewing depends a lot on how you brew and how much you brew.
If you buy a $5500 electric brewery, several $600 conicals, cooling system, $500 on a keezer. $2000 on miscellaneous other stuff to start out it would take you many, many years of using bulk grain, bulk hops, re-using yeast etc. to break even.
But if you go with a cheap burner and kettle for BIAB, limit your fermentation control to a vessel or two and refrain from kegging you could be saving quite a bit of money within the first year.
Especially if you don't count the fact that you will probably be drinking a lot more beer. Unless you are a case of Bud after work kind of guy.
Whether you can save any money homebrewing depends a lot on how you brew and how much you brew.
If you buy a $5500 electric brewery, several $600 conicals, cooling system, $500 on a keezer. $2000 on miscellaneous other stuff to start out it would take you many, many years of using bulk grain, bulk hops, re-using yeast etc. to break even.
But if you go with a cheap burner and kettle for BIAB, limit your fermentation control to a vessel or two and refrain from kegging you could be saving quite a bit of money within the first year.
Especially if you don't count the fact that you will probably be drinking a lot more beer. Unless you are a case of Bud after work kind of guy.
This makes me sad in a way. I suppose it's like working a job you hate just to get money to live.
Yeah, but you know how to use 'em.
How many people buy $1500 clubs hoping they can buy a game? Mine were custom built by me. Frequency-matched, MOI-matched, they're probably worth $1500, though I only have about $600 in 'em.
Anyone who judges had better first be able to demonstrate they've never made a bad decision, wasted money, bought something others find foolish, or returned a purchase to the store.
BTW, you know how you get a $10,000 setup? Answer: a piece at a time.
I think the reason a lot of brewers are stubborn about this topic is because their self value as a hobbyist is reflected by the time and money spent. I don't mean to strike a nerve with any of those brewers but not all of us need that recognition.
I know by now everyone must be sick of analogies but imagine the time and money necessary to build a hot rod. However, all the other hot rod enthusiasts keep devaluing your expertise by expressing how cheap and easy their project is. I imagine this is how some homebrewers feel. Others, including myself, prefer the hobby to "pay itself off".
I know by now everyone must be sick of analogies but imagine the time and money necessary to build a hot rod. However, all the other hot rod enthusiasts keep devaluing your expertise by expressing how cheap and easy their project is. I imagine this is how some homebrewers feel. Others, including myself, prefer the hobby to "pay itself off".
Murphys_Law
Well-Known Member
If people insist you add the cost of your time should I also add the cost of this $18 cigar to the cost of this batch? [emoji1]
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2 home depot buckets converted to fermenters, a 4gal pot, a stove, Starsans/hydrometer/racking cane, metal container to chill wort and use as fermentation temp control, beer bottles you already have, capping supplies. Looking at what $80??
Only style it would be hard to succeed in is highly hopped IPAs. But done many others with this set up. Many folks on this forum have enjoyed my HBs. Yes, I have more goodies; SS Strainers, 10gal cooler/mash tun conversion, $150 burners....but I use the above setup. Works great.
It's like bowling. A $200 ball will not make you better. But once you learn technique a $50 ball will work for most situations..only then will the $200 will help.
Only style it would be hard to succeed in is highly hopped IPAs. But done many others with this set up. Many folks on this forum have enjoyed my HBs. Yes, I have more goodies; SS Strainers, 10gal cooler/mash tun conversion, $150 burners....but I use the above setup. Works great.
It's like bowling. A $200 ball will not make you better. But once you learn technique a $50 ball will work for most situations..only then will the $200 will help.
I agree with the above. Most people don't see a lot of the actual costs. Water for the mash and for cooling (we all pay for it, unless you have a well or a stream on your property), fuel to boil the wort and to heat the strike water, energy to keep the wort at the proper temperature during fermentation, then factor in personal time (even though it is a hobby, this should always be part of cost).
If you are only brewing clones of beer that you can buy, then you will never truly save money. Brewing clones of something that you can't buy locally or your own recipes, doesn't save you money, but gives you a deep satisfaction. This last example is the real reason I brew, not to save money, but for the satisfaction of handing someone a great beer and then telling them, "I brewed that".
Bubbles2
Well-Known Member
Over time....if you consider it a hobby vs a cost analysis. Considering time vs money, your career, it's net take home. 2 hours at the job allows you to bring home 50.00 Net, go buy almost 2 cases of decent beer for close to it. Yet brewing can suck up 3 hours easy.. Then you pay for ingredients. That is known as comparative economics. Conversely if a Hobby, time is not valued as money rather therapy.
As far as the 'Over time' comment, cost of start-up, ingredients, buying bulk can get your costs down to .30-.50 cents a beer, not counting time and not adding in therapy value.
For me it is health, I do not have fluoride in my diet, R.O H20 with a re-mineralizer, Almost all Organic ingredients really removes much of the glysphates aka ' Round-Up' out of my diet, coupled with my own culinary skills in each batch, allows for a quality beer.
One would indeed be paying 1.50 a beer at the market if not more. As the 'icing on the cake', alcohol is taxed according to ABV, So a 6% beer has a higher cost. My beer has no tax which is the best tasting beer in the so called free world.
As far as the 'Over time' comment, cost of start-up, ingredients, buying bulk can get your costs down to .30-.50 cents a beer, not counting time and not adding in therapy value.
For me it is health, I do not have fluoride in my diet, R.O H20 with a re-mineralizer, Almost all Organic ingredients really removes much of the glysphates aka ' Round-Up' out of my diet, coupled with my own culinary skills in each batch, allows for a quality beer.
One would indeed be paying 1.50 a beer at the market if not more. As the 'icing on the cake', alcohol is taxed according to ABV, So a 6% beer has a higher cost. My beer has no tax which is the best tasting beer in the so called free world.
pinchegil
Strangedog Brewing
You have to also take into consideration what you would spend on brew day if you did not brew beer, and those equipment costs. My other hobbies are hotrods, and firearms. The equipment costs of those hobbies are much more expensive, and after a day of shooting or racing, you always have to finish up with beer that you have to pay for. I don't play golf but a great set of clubs is over 2k, and rounds of golf range from 50 to 150 dollars, and you drink beer the whole time. I have $3k in my brewing equipment, I have more than that in a single rifle. The cost of the equipment is the cost of the hobby, not the cost of the beer. So I am saving money on beer. thats my $.02
I suppose that depends on where you live.
Both federally in the US, and locally here, as long as you're making "beer" (the federal and local state definitions are broad there) you're taxed on volume sold, not ABV. I don't know how spirits/wine/cider are taxed (I imagine wine/cider also taxed by volume, no idea on spirits though). I do know some states have far more stringent ABV restrictions. Plus, you don't even have to register individual beers federally unless they're distributed across state lines, just file raw barrelage produced and pay taxes on raw barrelage sold, so if you stay hyper-local then ABV isn't a factor federally at all.
Not that it's particularly relevant to anything else discuessed. Just a point of clarification.
They have to pay staff, electricity, bulding taxes, etc. I still go though. A good burger and a nice beer and I am out of there.I've always wondered about this one.....why breweries charge you twice as much to sip a pint of suds at their establishment.
When I could save money by having them bottle it, pay a distributer, let the retailer make his cut and I only pay half as much.
Now I know why I don't hang out in the bars or breweries.
Regarding including the cost of your time; well there’s a big IF to be considered. IF you have an opportunity to earn money at that given time then there’s a lost opportunity that should be considered IN THE CONTEXT OF THE QUESTION. Say you’re a CPA and Joe from down the street comes to you on the Friday before tax day and begs you to do his taxes and you say “sorry, I have a big brew weekend ahead of me”. There’s a lost opportunity where you could have earned money (Joe owns a small lucrative business and his records are all messed up so this was a big opportunity). On the other hand, if you work a 9-5 and you have worked all the hours your employer is willing to pay for the week then there’s no lost opportunity because you couldn’t have been working even if you wanted to and needed the money. One of my other hobbies is welding and fabrication, last weekend while I was stirring a pot of oatmeal stout that was trying to boil over I was staring at a half built roll cage in the corner of my garage. Had I not been brewing I would have been earning money while working on it, there was lost opportunity. So in the context of the question, no I didn’t save money over just buying a couple of commercial 1/6 barrels. Now I wouldn’t normally look at that as a cost of brewing because as others have said brewing is a hobby and hobbies aren’t meant to save you money, but if you ask if I save money by brewing I need to look at the bigger picture which does include lost opportunities.
As for last weekend, I probably spent $130 less on my two batches than I would have on commercial kegs but then I bought a new $180 keezer so I could fit two more kegs which are going to cost even more money (kegs, faucets, stems, regulator, disconnects). One step forward, three steps backwards…….
As for last weekend, I probably spent $130 less on my two batches than I would have on commercial kegs but then I bought a new $180 keezer so I could fit two more kegs which are going to cost even more money (kegs, faucets, stems, regulator, disconnects). One step forward, three steps backwards…….
pinchegil
Strangedog Brewing
Yeah, but time is included into the hobby cost. When you take someone to the movies do you say two tickets, two drinks and the never ending box of popcorn cost me $75.00 or do you add the three hours of lost productive time and say that cost me $205 dollars to go to the movies. You will spend the money and the time on any hobby that you do. If you play golf you are done until the next time you play so the net gain of the time, hardware, and greenfee expense is can only be measured in frustration or enjoyment with no tangible gain. In brewing you have similar time, hardware and material expense we to have a net gain of frustration or enjoyment, but we also have beer!! The ultimate in tangible gain!! Not knockin Cider or Whisky they are pretty dam good too
Yea but no one would propose the idea of going to a movie or play golf as a way to save money. I don’t look at brewing as a way to save money so I don’t care about the lost productivity, if you ask me if I save money by doing it then I would need to take that into consideration thereby making it an absolute no.
pinchegil
Strangedog Brewing
So you do it to save money, not because it is a hobby and you would really rather be doing something else besides brewing. In that case I guess it wouldn't save you money. And actually taking a woman to the movies may or may not be more expensive than......... nevermind
The thread is about saving money.......It's not done to save money........if it's about the bottom line you're better off finding someone to pay you to do something else because just about anything else will pay better than home brewing. Better?
