OK, so I think I am going to try my hand at saving the yeast I am using for my Pale Ale that is fermenting. It is a dry WLP007 and while I know I won't save much money this time, my hope is that I can move to the liquid yeast and repitch it and save a few bucks. It probably has another two weeks before I can bottle and store. My questions are: How long can I keep it in a mason jar in the fridge? If I am going to give it a repitch, what, if anything, should I do before hand? I know I can look this all up, but personal experience and some guiding insight from the pro's is what I am looking for. What temp is best to store it at? My inside fridge is about 34 degrees I think. My kegerator is close to the same. My fridge out in my shop is a bit warmer at maybe 35 to 37. I will, of course, have a fresh pack of yeast at the ready just in case, but I think I am going to give it a go and see what happens. My next batch will more than likely be a single hop Cascade Ale with an expected OG of about1.050. Any input or guidance is always welcome.
Saving yeast
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I'll keep yeast for a few months and repitch without a problem and do that for 7 or so cycles. Build a starter a few days ahead of time, on brewday decant off the liquid and pitch the yeast into your fermenter. As far as storing temp, as long as it's under 38f I think you're fine. Is there an exact amount of time it will last in the fridge? Uhh, well there will likely be different opinions on that. I don't go longer then 3 months, but I only harvest yeast I use on a regular so I know time is no issue.
I am wondering if a starter is needed? I have only tried once and it did not work. The yeast never really took off. But, I am game to give it another shot. DME is cheap, so why not, right? LOL.
McMullan
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I just use a large (135ml) stainless soup ladle to scoop up some fresh WLP007 slurry then pitch it directly into the next batch.
It’s best used fresh and becomes less effective by the day following the end of fermentation. If stored for much more than a week, you’ll get better results using less in a starter. You’ll still save money on yeast, especially at today’s outrageous prices.
It’s best used fresh and becomes less effective by the day following the end of fermentation. If stored for much more than a week, you’ll get better results using less in a starter. You’ll still save money on yeast, especially at today’s outrageous prices.
Yeah I hear ya. Take the yeast out a little while ahead of making the starter so it has time to warm up. Put a half pound of dme in 2L of water boil for 10 minutes, cool it down, pitch yeast. Usually active in a couple hours and done in 24 to 36 hours depending on the yeast. But I also use a stir plate.
Siide note... If you are making a hoppy beer or one that has dry hops it can be tough to get clean yeast slurry. For my heavily dry hopped beers I will make extra starter wort and reserve some of that for next time, that way it's clean healthy yeast being stored.
I've repitched save yeast slurry that was over a year old without issues. I just save in mason jars in the fridge.
Always do the sniff test before pitching. I'll have 2-3 jars of the same stuff so there are back ups if needed.
Always do the sniff test before pitching. I'll have 2-3 jars of the same stuff so there are back ups if needed.
Good stuff folks, thanks. I know dry yeast is pretty cheap, but so am I. LOL. This is just another facet of the hobby I want to see if I can do. Why not, right?
I have very mixed experiences with just storing the slurry from a batch. I think it's better to overbuild a starter and then keep the excess yeast. In any case, whatever method you are going to do, if it's older than one week, a starter is mandatory before pitching.
I have read this a few times. Problem is, right now, freezer space is very limited and the wife is never happy when I used it. LOL. I already have a few bags of hops that I got in there taking up way too much room. But, I think in the end, I will end up doing something like this.
I used to repitch slurries as is, no starter, after a month or so in the fridge. It worked well until it stopped working well and I started having a couple off flavors here and there. Most likely because I wasn't using starters, or possibly poor sanitization of the jars. Never really investigated it because all the jars were taking up too much space in the fridge anyways. So dont be like me haha, listen to these folks about starters.
One side note, I do reuse yeast cakes, especially for lagers. Racking a new wort on top of a fresh yeast cake has been wildly successful for me. It takes some planning (kegging and brewing at the same time, so having a beer ready to keg on a brew day) but it allows me to brew a smaller pale beer, and rack a bigger one on top. Or moving up from a 2.5-3G batch to a 5G batch.
One side note, I do reuse yeast cakes, especially for lagers. Racking a new wort on top of a fresh yeast cake has been wildly successful for me. It takes some planning (kegging and brewing at the same time, so having a beer ready to keg on a brew day) but it allows me to brew a smaller pale beer, and rack a bigger one on top. Or moving up from a 2.5-3G batch to a 5G batch.
Dry yeast is not exactly all that cheap if it's Lallemand 11g packets and one is brewing 10 gallon batches above the 60 point line. I have to use 4 packets for IPAs. That's a $25 pitch...
Cheers!
Cheers!
Exactly my experience as well. Nothing beats a nice batch of beer as a starter for another batch of beer if the second batch is pitched within 24 hours on the cake of the first one.
FloppyKnockers
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Okay, here's me...
Whenever I save the yeast cake, I'll spoon it in a couple of shorty mason jars and top them with aluminum foil - never a lid. I just store them in the fridge.
I will store them in the fridge for up-to a month and re-pitch without a starter. After which, I will do a starter. I may also do a starter if the yeast starts to form a grey top or looks a little off. That way, if the yeast is beyond bad, I have time to get a fresh sachet or starter.
Just recently, I did a little ex-beer-ament with 34/70. One was a yeast cake that was ~3 weeks old and one fresh sachet in a split batch. No starters. They both started bubbling about a day later and stayed glug for glug for a couple days. They both finished the same, looked the same, and tasted the same.
Whenever I save the yeast cake, I'll spoon it in a couple of shorty mason jars and top them with aluminum foil - never a lid. I just store them in the fridge.
I will store them in the fridge for up-to a month and re-pitch without a starter. After which, I will do a starter. I may also do a starter if the yeast starts to form a grey top or looks a little off. That way, if the yeast is beyond bad, I have time to get a fresh sachet or starter.
Just recently, I did a little ex-beer-ament with 34/70. One was a yeast cake that was ~3 weeks old and one fresh sachet in a split batch. No starters. They both started bubbling about a day later and stayed glug for glug for a couple days. They both finished the same, looked the same, and tasted the same.
That's kinda what I was going to try. Take the yeast from my Pale and store it for about a week or two and then repitch in either another Pale or a IPA. If it doesn't work, I will have a packet of either S05 or Bry ready to go.
Try overbuilding starters and harvesting before pitching. I save 500ml or so of every starter and use that to make a new starter before the next brew day. I often go 5-10 generations with it. I save the harvested yeast in 20oz soda bottles with the cap on very loosely.
That works as long as it doesn't. Believe me I've been in the same camp as you are now. As soon as you loose the first batch, you will rethink that approach, if you are intelligent. If you are not, it will work again for the next batches, until it doesn't.... Again. That's how I learned that a starter is always necessary, unless pitching on the same yeast cake within the next day or two.
I am more comfortable making starters. Once I figure out how much slurry I really have ( always a guess ) and just go ahead and make a starter with an over build. Most of the time the starter isn't that big depending on how much slurry I have.
Inspired to move from "storing under beer" to a more stable process.
This 100g bottle of DME+Agar is expensive!!! With fresh DME, you can make 18X for the same price.
Bonus: get some expired DME on the cheap, taste is irrelevant, talk to your LHBS.
With mushroom growing becoming more popular I see how this San Francisco company wants tocapitalize rip people off.
This 100g bottle of DME+Agar is expensive!!! With fresh DME, you can make 18X for the same price.
Bonus: get some expired DME on the cheap, taste is irrelevant, talk to your LHBS.
With mushroom growing becoming more popular I see how this San Francisco company wants to
McMullan
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Get some food-grade agar, which is usually a lot cheaper than lab grade, then prepare a 1.5% solution using AG wort diluted to <1.005.
All great info, thank you all for posting. I am going to at the least save this yeast and see what happens. I will try the starter idea again, but I did not have much luck with it last time. I did the Shaken not stirred method as I don't have a stir plate. I have a couple of mason jars of different sizes. One is about 1 cup? The other is a bit bigger and the other is huge. LOL. I am guessing I can do the one cup one and the next size up and split the yeast in those?
@Miraculix
That's my current plan. I have a batch of 1.060 beer fermenting now and plan to rack a 1.100 imperial stout on top of that yeast cake after kegging the first beer. Question - if I don't do it the same day does my fermenter with the yeast in it need to be refrigerated until the next day, or can it be left at room temperature?
beren
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I use https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/maintaining-a-healthy-yeast-bank-long-term.678997/ along with a whole lot of people and we get good results. They are things that could be tweaked to be even better but…
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Leave a little bit of beer on top of it, like one cm or something like that and just keep it at room temperature.
This is my endgame but I have to get the accountant to agree to give up some freezer space, or get my own setup. LOL. For now, a small dorm fridge is all I have and I don't think the "freezer" section is all that cold.
I have been saving yeast from either the top or bottom of the fermentation (depending on the strain) and pitching without a starter for about a year now with excellent results.
BUT I don't let anything but clear wort into my fermenter. I hate to think what my brewhouse efficiency would be if I bothered calculating it. I pour out a couple quarts of wort with the break and hops every brew, but then I pitch free, clean, waxy, dense slurry instead of buying yeast or extract. There's labor savings too, plus one less chance for contamination.
Up to a month in the fridge in a Mason jar with a plastic lid and I've had zero problems. Pitch rate is a bit of an educated guess, but I have gotten into a groove that gives me good beer and consistency.
Use starsan, don't get the threads of the jar dirty with a big spoon, don't overfill so it erupts. Don't be greedy. Even a big ale will take off like a rocket with a cup or a cup and a half (half that if it's top cropped) of clean, hard slurry from last month's brew. Headspace in the jar avoids eruption and contamination. Don't harvest just the top or bottom layer or you'll select for less/more flocculation. Don't forget to relieve the pressure every few days at first.
It's not sexy, but it works.
BUT I don't let anything but clear wort into my fermenter. I hate to think what my brewhouse efficiency would be if I bothered calculating it. I pour out a couple quarts of wort with the break and hops every brew, but then I pitch free, clean, waxy, dense slurry instead of buying yeast or extract. There's labor savings too, plus one less chance for contamination.
Up to a month in the fridge in a Mason jar with a plastic lid and I've had zero problems. Pitch rate is a bit of an educated guess, but I have gotten into a groove that gives me good beer and consistency.
Use starsan, don't get the threads of the jar dirty with a big spoon, don't overfill so it erupts. Don't be greedy. Even a big ale will take off like a rocket with a cup or a cup and a half (half that if it's top cropped) of clean, hard slurry from last month's brew. Headspace in the jar avoids eruption and contamination. Don't harvest just the top or bottom layer or you'll select for less/more flocculation. Don't forget to relieve the pressure every few days at first.
It's not sexy, but it works.
beren
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You could use a flat canning lid on a small canning jar and secure it with the rubber bands around to keep some pressure but let it burp
Thanks to all who replied. I am going to give it a try. I have two small mason jars, they have a cup written on them. Going to fill each about half way. I think I will try the starter idea first and see how that goes. This is dry WLP001 and seems to be really working out. The smell from the fermenter is different and very pleasant, so I am hoping this is going to be a good beer.
I also literally overbuild a starter yesterday. I have high hopes on the jar in the fridge.
OK, so plan of attack this time is as follows. The beer currently in the fermenter should be ready to package end of this week. I am going to let it sit a few days later and package early next week. I have purchased the grains for my next batch, Idaho 7 single hop Ale. I will plan it so that I can brew the new batch and package the batch in the fermenter the same day. Gonna take a bit of planning, but I think I can do it. If this works, it is a step towards me saving yeast and being able to save myself a few bucks per batch.
One question I have is, when transferring the new wort into the yeast cake, do I have to be careful not to introduce oxygen? I just usually open the ball valve on my boil kettle and let it rip, so this could be a bit of a problem. Input?
I am now on the hunt for a used pressure cooker as the "freezing yeast" write up you all posted seems really easy and doable and can allow me to have a few at the ready with little effort. My issues is freezer space, so this will be a wish list item until I can get a dedicated fridge freezer for my beer. Retirement cannot come fast enough LOL
Thanks to all who replied. I will update as I go so you all can give me insight and tips.
One question I have is, when transferring the new wort into the yeast cake, do I have to be careful not to introduce oxygen? I just usually open the ball valve on my boil kettle and let it rip, so this could be a bit of a problem. Input?
I am now on the hunt for a used pressure cooker as the "freezing yeast" write up you all posted seems really easy and doable and can allow me to have a few at the ready with little effort. My issues is freezer space, so this will be a wish list item until I can get a dedicated fridge freezer for my beer. Retirement cannot come fast enough LOL
Thanks to all who replied. I will update as I go so you all can give me insight and tips.
beren
Well-Known Member
I splash as much as possible when putting the wort into the fermenter to help oxygenate it. As far as freezing yeast, less is more, and I've since learned not to let the yeast sit for a week or 2 to drop clear to decant then freeze, it seems maybe better to do it after a day or 2 of fermenting. I have been wondering if a little gelatin to help gather all the yeast would be good...
McMullan
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If you’re transferring the cooled (double check!) kettle wort diectly on top of a fresh yeast cake, you don’t need to make any attempt to actively aerate (oxygenate) the fresh wort. Just transfer it however and don’t worry either way. It won’t hurt, but it I sn’t necessary either. Because you already have a shed load of yeast. More than enough to get your beer across the line within days. Congrats, you’re now brewing like a pro, but don’t tell everyone, because they won’t believe you.
Thank you sir. I appreciate that. My current batch has pretty much hit FG. I need to dry hop for about 3 to 4 days, so I am wondering if it is ok to let it sit, as is, in a temp controlled evironment until about tuesday or wendnesday? I will then dry hop and be ready for a brew day, bottle day on Sunday or monday. Sound like a good plan?If you’re transferring the cooled (double check!) kettle wort diectly on top of a fresh yeast cake, you don’t need to make any attempt to actively aerate (oxygenate) the fresh wort. Just transfer it however and don’t worry either way. It won’t hurt, but it I sn’t necessary either. Because you already have a shed load of yeast. More than enough to get your beer across the line within days. Congrats, you’re now brewing like a pro, but don’t tell everyone, because they won’t believe you.
PCABrewing
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Is the loose foil cover to prevent pressure build?
I ask because I recall the old White Labs un-expanded soda bottle packaging and those were sealed tight.
Is it necessary to leave it loose initially but can you tighten a lid after a period of time?
I've never tried saving yeast so I don't know that detail.
