"you won't save money homebrewing"

[Bubbles2]

I suppose that depends on where you live.

Both federally in the US, and locally here, as long as you're making "beer" (the federal and local state definitions are broad there) you're taxed on volume sold, not ABV. I don't know how spirits/wine/cider are taxed (I imagine wine/cider also taxed by volume, no idea on spirits though). I do know some states have far more stringent ABV restrictions. Plus, you don't even have to register individual beers federally unless they're distributed across state lines, just file raw barrelage produced and pay taxes on raw barrelage sold, so if you stay hyper-local then ABV isn't a factor federally at all.

Not that it's particularly relevant to anything else discuessed. Just a point of clarification.

Yeah so when you sell beer to a distributor, the tax is there and then rolled in and passed on to the consumer and treated as Gross cost. So you will see an alcohol at a higher cost at point of purchase pending on it's abv. Not that you see a difference as a homebrewer rather a consumer which correlates with the OP's question.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Yeah so when you sell beer to a distributor, the tax is there and then rolled in and passed on to the consumer and treated as Gross cost. So you will see an alcohol at a higher cost at point of purchase pending on it's abv. Not that you see a difference as a homebrewer rather a consumer which correlates with the OP's question.

Higher ABV beers tend to cost more because they are more expensive to make. The taxes don't change. TTB taxes brewers at a flat rate per barrel sold. ABV does not raise or lower those taxes. Virginia does not as well (but may in other states and other countries). And point of sale doesn't matter either, because it's the same sold out of the taproom.

Distributor and retailer markup is another issue entirely.

It's not important and not relevant anyway. But yes, taxes are certainly passed along to the consumer, and homebrew is not taxed. Which is what is relevant.

 

[Gravitysucks]

I'm assuming that most people look at home brewing as a hobby. If you get into one of the many categories of hobbies that produce an end product other than recreation/enjoyment with the idea of saving money it would seem to move this pastime into the realm of a job. I feel like once saving/making money becomes a consideration it ceases to be a hobby.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Remember all everyones situation is different. In Vancouver bc 6 packs of bud are 15$ and craft stuff is more. I spend about 25-50cents a beer to make my own. Before getting dialed in I spent appx 4000$ a year on store bought. After getting dialed in last year I spent 360$. So I save 3640$ last year on store bought. I spent alot on optional equipment so I need to keep brewing for about 2 more years to actually break even but that's only because I'm close to 10g in equipment at this point. If I gave up tommorow and resold my equipment for 50% it would be a wash more or less. I think it also matters the frequency you brew and how much you drink. Cheers

 

[jack13]

Counting every expense, down to the water, propane and such, I'm currently at $9.59 per six-pack, cheaper than buying good beer, which I humbly suggest mine is.

And even better is that's an average--total $ spent since my very first brew divided by total number of bottles (or equiv) produced--it's not what I'm paying now. So in terms of current cash flow, if I want a keg of beer (almost exactly 9 six-packs), it doesn't actually take $87 out of my pocket. More like $30, or $3.40 per six-pack.

Regardless, paying $9.59 overall per six-pack is saving money, I don't even go out of my way to keep costs down with ingredients, and if I want an upgrade, I do it. So if you claim YOU don't save money homebrewing, fine. But please don't say one can't/don't/won't save money homebrewing! It's just not true.

 

[plano_harry]

Probably somewhere in the past six pages someone has made a similar observation. Many of the beers I want, are not available in bottles or cans, at least where I live. I recently did a Peticolas Velvet Hammer clone for approximately a dollar a bottle. In a taproom this would run me $5 to $8 for a 10 oz pour. I figure I am break even on bottles and cans of high quality craft beer. Just noticed that St. Arnold Bishops Barrel #20 was running $53 for 64oz....maybe I don't have a cost problem, maybe it is a quality issue!

 

[applescrap]

I did it. Yes, i did. I added it all up at least in estimation. And it casts some very interesting light on this conversation. Not sure i can get to any all discussion now. I hope it unfolds itself over time.

Added up 2 bottles starsan, 2 fermenter buckets, siphon, 20 dollar tamale pot, even 12 dollar initial pot. 2 used pinlocks, kegging gear 15g aluminum pot, 220 install, pid, heat on a stick. Came up around 800. Will give math later. 1000 in ingredients or so for 2000 beers. I figure around 1900 for 2000 beers. Assuming 10 per 6 commercial that's 3300 at 1.66 per beer. So on 2000 beers i have saved 1400.

But, i didnt spend that all at once. it happened over time. New batches are cheap as alluded to.

This sheds some interesting light. How hard would it have been to spend more on non bulk ingredients? Also i got good deals on used equipment and new too. Wouldnt have been to hard to spend 1400 more on equipment. So unless you are careful i can see where it can be very hard to save money brewing. Ill add more later. Hope this helps

 

[Pkrd]

Don't forget all the time you've wasted surfing HBT, reading Palmer and his buddies, watching youtube vids of very random guys brewing in funny tee shirts, ordering ingredients online (and checking 13 different suppliers to save 30¢ on your order). You could have been working your hypothetical second job during that time, earning enough to buy your wife that tupperware set she can't afford because you have a freezer full of hops.

Counter that against all the beer you didn't buy to drink because it was brew night, and you don't drink on brew night ever since you had to go to the ER to get the refractometer removed.

 

[lump42]

If people insist you add the cost of your time should I also add the cost of this $18 cigar to the cost of this batch? [emoji1]

My take was that if someone wanted to save money homebrewing, they shouldn't just take into account the ingredients, but equipment costs, depreciation of equipment, labor, opportunity costs (+/-). I don't do any of that because like stated multiple times it's a hobby.

The benefits of hobbies are usually much more than monetary. I can and have but a price on my free time. How do you price out friendships and enjoyment?

 

[seatazzz]

Most of my stuff was either gifted to me or purchased used, with the exception of a false bottom, 12g aluminum kettle, and random hardware. So equipment-wise, I'm probably into this about $800. I finally started buying my two-row in full bags and my hops online, that saves me plenty of $$ if all I have to buy for a brewday is adjuncts and yeast. In the last 6 months the only commercial beer I've bought is maybe two 24-packs of CL if the pipeline was empty and random 22's of craft beers we wanted to try.

So maybe I don't save much money by brewing my own....but I look at it this way. I can brew whatever tickles my taste buds, and it keeps me home. I've had a gambling problem for years, and now I'd much rather spend 6 hours brewing than sitting in a casino blowing money that would be better spent on ingredients. Now if I've got some extra cash, my first thought is "what ingredients/equipment can I buy with this?" instead of "let's go to the casino and see what we can win!". So brewing for me is a good thing and DOES save me money.

 

[NickTheGreat]

You have to also take into consideration what you would spend on brew day if you did not brew beer, and those equipment costs. My other hobbies are hotrods, and firearms. The equipment costs of those hobbies are much more expensive, and after a day of shooting or racing, you always have to finish up with beer that you have to pay for. I don't play golf but a great set of clubs is over 2k, and rounds of golf range from 50 to 150 dollars, and you drink beer the whole time. I have $3k in my brewing equipment, I have more than that in a single rifle. The cost of the equipment is the cost of the hobby, not the cost of the beer. So I am saving money on beer. thats my $.02

Are you a politician? You sound like a politician. :

 

[grampamark]

Are you a politician? You sound like a politician. :

Naw. If he was a politician he would have said: "I had planned to increase my brewing budget by 5% last year but I only spent 3% more than the previous year. Therefore, I saved 2%".

 

[bleme]

Naw. If he was a politician he would have said: "I had planned to increase my brewing budget by 5% last year but I only spent 3% more than the previous year. Therefore, I saved 2%".

That sort of sounds like my grandma's logic of shopping. If she went shopping with $20 and found some shoes that were marked $60, on sale for $20, she figured she'd saved $40 and had another $40 to spend...

 

[pinchegil]

Are you a politician? You sound like a politician. :

No, just well versed in justification required by SWMBO

 

[CA_Mouse]

That sort of sounds like my grandma's logic of shopping. If she went shopping with $20 and found some shoes that were marked $60, on sale for $20, she figured she'd saved $40 and had another $40 to spend...

Isn't that how the US Government sees everything? 'If we buy cheap materials, use under-skilled workers, take kickbacks from the lobbyists and saved $1.5B, that goes to my campaign for re-election, right?'

 

[Murphys_Law]

Just spent about $150 on more hardware I didn’t need...but wanted.

Going to be awhile more until the savings start!

 

[Blazinlow86]

Just spent about $150 on more hardware I didn’t need...but wanted.

Going to be awhile more until the savings start!

Tell me about it. My buddies favorite line when I mention my brewing is always " nothing another 100$ won't fix eh" .

 

[PlexVector]

Brewing is like sex...you can read to infinity, but you really won't know how until you do it (many times), so how does money enter into this equation?

 

[bendog15]

I love this thread.

 

[applescrap]

Brewing is like sex...you can read to infinity, but you really won't know how until you do it (many times), so how does money enter into this equation?

Because you need s...t to brew with other than your junk

 

[MT's AZ Ale Haus]

Since I have taken up brewing as a hobby, I look at it from strictly a out of pocket expense. Looking at it like that, it is about a 45%-50% savings.

 

[ong]

I just don’t find it very expensive in general. My equipment costs over the seven years I’ve been brewing have been maybe $1200 (most of that a kegerator, kegs, and a couple stainless fermenters). But I’m not drawn to all the fancy automated 3 vessel shininess, either. That seems like something people do just because they like it, not because it makes the beer any better. It can be a really inexpensive hobby.

 

[MultumInParvo]

I just don’t find it very expensive in general. My equipment costs over the seven years I’ve been brewing have been maybe $1200 (most of that a kegerator, kegs, and a couple stainless fermenters). But I’m not drawn to all the fancy automated 3 vessel shininess, either. That seems like something people do just because they like it, not because it makes the beer any better. It can be a really inexpensive hobby.

I am in the same spot. Been brewing for 9 years. I have spent maybe $750 on equipment and in my eyes have some pretty good stuff!

Without a doubt I have saved money brewing...

As someone posted earlier, it is like eating out vs. going to a restaurant. Depending on how well you cook you can get similar to better food for less money!

That being said, I don't do have hobbies to save. I do them for fun. Saving just keeps the swmbo happy.

 

[Home_alone1]

I save money when I brew beer styles I like that would cost me 8-16 dollars per 750. I do spend plenty of money though . But brewing 10 gallons of a Belgian triple vs buying 10 gallons of Belgian heaven saves quite a bit. Plus I’m learning and acquiring a new skill! Not everyone knows how to make beer ! I like the process of staring with raw materials and ending up with a finished packaged project to call my own !

 

[jack13]

My latest figure (after some recent equipment purchases): I'm at $9.68 per six-pack (equivalent). For context, looks like after 4 more batches that should be down to around $9.30.

 

[ancientmariner52]

To get to the true cost, wouldn't you need to somehow figure in the projected useful life of the equipment? What would a train ticket cost if you had to recover the cost of the railroad in one trip? I'm not criticizing, just curious. Seems to me that if you brew enough, your equipment cost becomes negligible. How much brewing that would be, I dunno.

 

[applescrap]

^^key point and how do you put a price on satisfaction and joy of use.

 

[Induction2766]

A very silly discussion. Of course you save money brewing at home. You can brew a beer at home for 1/8th the cost that you're paying for the same style at a restaurant or brew pub/house, and easily 1/4th the price you pay for the style from a grocery or liquor store.

Silly discussion.

 

[jack13]

A very silly discussion. Of course you save money brewing at home. You can brew a beer at home for 1/8th the cost that you're paying for the same style at a restaurant or brew pub/house, and easily 1/4th the price you pay for the style from a grocery or liquor store.

Silly discussion.

Who needs a copy of this to show your partner when he/she questions any homebrew-related purchases? I've printed a bunch.

 

[mongoose33]

Who needs a copy of this to show your partner when he/she questions any homebrew-related purchases? I've printed a bunch.

How many partners do you have?

 

[jack13]

Ever seen Big Love? That guy was a pansy.

 

[jack13]

-sigh- OK, one.