Weissbier Schneider & Sohn Original German Hefe Weizen Ale

[Schlenkerla]

Then Jeff Alworth is contradicting himself in the original recipe in post #1 by saying that a rest a 95f has anything to do with ferulic acid production.

He cites this on the mash schedule then says in the recipe detail that it needs to be 104 - 122F. With a stop at 113F.

Remember this is what Schneider & Sohn or Hans Peter-Drexler is suggesting.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Thanks for this awesome tutorial and recipe, can't wait to try it! A few questions though:

1) I do the 10g igloo mash tun, would it make sense to just mash in my kettle on the heat source, dump into igloo cooler, vorlauf and batch sparge? If not, would it make sense to do a decoction? Though I guess that would be more work and a similar process as far as transferring from kettle to tun goes..

2) When you say to cover the fermenter for the first 8 hours, do you mean with cheese cloth or to just rest the lid on it?

2a) After the first 8 hours do I just completely uncover it or put the lid/airlock on? (I've never open fermented so I apologize if this is a dumb question)

3) I'm not going to crop any of the yeast. Should I still remove high krausen or can I just push it to the side?

4) What is your efficiency when brewing this recipe? 1.052 seems high from only 8lbs of grist but I'm not sure. The reason I'm asking is the 'Bee Cave Hefe' recipe on here has an 11lb grain bill with the same OG.

5) I'm assuming the link you posted for the priming calculator was already programmed with the recipe data, so I would need to reserve 1.27q of wort. Correct?

6) I've never used wort to prime either, after it carbs to 2 volumes what do you set the serving pressure to?

Sorry for the barrage of questions! Hope to hear back from you soon so I can get this thing going ASAP! (who cares if its out of season? I want a proper hefe on tap NOW! ) Thanks again, cheers.

Sorry to have a late response. Here's my thoughts.

1) I'm on the fence on this. I don't have a kettle mash tun so, I'm thinking of doing all infusions. I don't want to dump the contents of my mash tun.

2 & 2A) I would start with the lid on after pitching.~8 hours I would fully uncover my fermenter (totally open - no cover) and recover it when the foam starts to subside. Maybe two days later.

3) No, I'm not going to top crop unless there's something that should NOT be in the fermenter.

4) I have never made it before. Its from a home brew book that I own. My guess with the step mashing the efficiency will be good.

5) The calculator is not present to my knowledge. Its really dependent on your OG and your desired level of carbonation.

6) The serving pressure is your call it all depends on the system balance of your keg system. Temperature, serving hose size, and line length. I like my kegerator's regulator set just high enough that my perlicks snap closed. My system is at 8-13 psi. Temp is at 40F

 

[ESBrewer]

@Schlenkerla delighted to see that you are going to brew this. Have a look at this article describing their full decoction schedule and some more advice.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjztsHkycfgAhWRiIsKHaznBywQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://beerandbrewing.com/traditional-hefeweizen-worth-the-trouble/&psig=AOvVaw39NFxY9MstE49Kf1XzVZzB&ust=1550658119918234

 

[Schlenkerla]

Making this today.....

 

[Schlenkerla]

She's in the in the fermenter. Temp was at 65F all night. Just starting to show bubble action in the air lock. So up comes the temp to 70F.

I'm coming home for lunch, if she's cranking away off comes the top.

The wort looked funny last night I had a lot of what I think was protein hot break in the form of flakes, kinda like coconut. Wish I took a picture.

 

[Schlenkerla]

It's not high krausen, but it starting to bubble enough to make me think the yeast is the only one who's bellied up to the table for dinner!

Off it is... Open fermentation.

Create some esters for me!!!!

 

[Schlenkerla]

Look how this changed in less than 20 minutes. Not sure if opening it makes the difference. It doesn't have the back pressure of the air lock now.

The first pic is right as I cracked it open. The others ~20 minutes later.

 

[lump42]

Planning on following this mash/fermentation regime. Do you think it would be enough to remove the bell on the airlock and a cotton ball over top? I regularly find drain flies and fruit flies in my airlocks. The door between the crawlspace and basement doesn't seal well, it's on the list.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Planning on following this mash/fermentation regime. Do you think it would be enough to remove the bell on the airlock and a cotton ball over top? I regularly find drain flies and fruit flies in my airlocks. The door between the crawlspace and basement doesn't seal well, it's on the list.

That I don't know. This is my first open fermentation. I'm wondering how people have delt with insects in the past. Maybe it's not an issue.

The book I read for this recipe says you need the lid ajar or off. I decided to go with completely off for the maximum ester formation.

 

[Schlenkerla]

High Krausen... This is 16 hours after pitching. Four hours from the previous set of pictures.

Smells like yeasty bananas in my place.

[emoji482]

 

[Schlenkerla]

Planning on following this mash/fermentation regime. Do you think it would be enough to remove the bell on the airlock and a cotton ball over top? I regularly find drain flies and fruit flies in my airlocks. The door between the crawlspace and basement doesn't seal well, it's on the list.

BTW - i added the 113F rest.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Day 2 looks just like day one with some brown stuff on the Krausen.

 

[Miraculix]

That I don't know. This is my first open fermentation. I'm wondering how people have delt with insects in the past. Maybe it's not an issue.

Simple, they drank them

 

[Oldskewl]

Interesting! Not sure I would feel good brewing open in the summer months, but I may give this a go next winter. Still wanting to master the Hefe!!

 

[Schlenkerla]

Interesting! Not sure I would feel good brewing open in the summer months, but I may give this a go next winter. Still wanting to master the Hefe!!

You might find this interesting...

https://beerandbrewing.com/4-reasons-to-try-open-fermentation


https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/xY1cRpZ5mD/

 

[Horseflesh]

Looking forward to seeing how this comes out. I love hefe but real success has eluded me.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I'm ready to keg tomorrow. The krausen has fallen already.

Notice the witness mark of the high krausen.

FWIW - I plan to spund.

 

[lump42]

That I don't know. This is my first open fermentation. I'm wondering how people have delt with insects in the past. Maybe it's not an issue.

The book I read for this recipe says you need the lid ajar or off. I decided to go with completely off for the maximum ester formation.

I'll plan on going that route then. An open airlock would be similar to being ajar.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I'll plan on going that route then. An open airlock would be similar to being ajar.

Yeah, there would be no back pressure.

That said, with this experience I think open fermentation is only risky if you open too early and leave it open too long.

Open when your airlock activity starts showing signs of life, roughly 8-12 hours after pitching. Then cover or rack after the krausen drops. I like the spund method as it will vent at my preset pressure. I show that later with pictures.

Reading what I posted yesterday and what i observed the last few days tells me that being completely open is very low risk. The krausen is very dense formation. Anything that would fall into it could be fished out with a spoon and it does act as a protective barrier. I plan to rack/drain to a keg today. That dense layer will drop as the fluid level drops. If there's anything on it will stay there as I won't all make it to the keg.

 

[Miraculix]

Ich think this is not about pressure. The additional pressure caused by an air lock equals the height of water inside it, in other words, nearly no additional pressure.

I guess it is about the quick exit that co2 can take due to lower co2 concentration in the surrounding air caused by good exchange of air, or about additional oxygen intake or both.

Any way, an open air lock or a nearly closed lid wouldn't do it in this scenario as the air would be still kind of trapped within the fermenter.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Ich think this is not about pressure. The additional pressure caused by an air lock equals the height of water inside it, in other words, nearly no additional pressure.

I guess it is about the quick exit that co2 can take due to lower co2 concentration in the surrounding air caused by good exchange of air, or about additional oxygen intake or both.

Any way, an open air lock or a nearly closed lid wouldn't do it in this scenario as the air would be still kind of trapped within the fermenter.

Agreed. Less space means less compressibility of air in the head space.

Having the CO2 spill over the sides and to not be concentrated is what allows the vinyl-4-guaiacol
ester formation. CO2 in high concentration inhibits the esters. That's pretty much the common statement by the experts and most publications advocating for open fermatation.

That said, you need to do the 113F ferulic acid rest so this will happen.

 

[lump42]

Agreed. Less space means less compressibility of air in the head space.

Having the CO2 spill over the sides and to not be concentrated is what allows the vinyl-4-guaiacol
ester formation. CO2 in high concentration inhibits the esters. That's pretty much the common statement by the experts and most publications advocating for open fermatation.

That said, you need to do the 113F ferulic acid rest so this will happen.

Maybe I'll just use tie some muslin cloth over the bucket. I'm still paranoid about a fruit fly getting in and introducing an acetic acid bacteria, at least till I get the hang of it.

I was planning on doing the combined rest at 113F. Schneiderweisse has been my target for hefe (at least what I remember it being after 15 years since I was in Germany). Now I just need to get it in my schedule.

 

[Schlenkerla]

She's in the can at the fourth day to spund. The spund valve is set to the max, odds are I can dial it back before tomorrow afternoon. I'm going to target 17psi or 1.8 VoCO2.

First pic is my drained fermenter.... So you can see what happened to the krausen.

Then my spund set up. It's a gas quick disconnect with a regulator. The high pressure side is plugged. The low pressure side is connected to the disconnect. Any pressure over the set point vents through the valve. Tomorrow I'll dial it back to about 15-20psi.

 

[Schlenkerla]

The spund is already at 8psi. It's about halfway there.

 

[Schlenkerla]

This fugger is done with carbonation.

20psi @ 63F.

The recommendation is that it's ready to drink in 3 weeks. I will need to kill a keg before I can fit in the fridge.

So what happens first? Beer done aging or an empty slot in the keezer.

I have a 3 tapper... Probably the cider will kick first.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Hey that's a nifty spunding setup, can you link to that regulator somewhere?

 

[Schlenkerla]

Hey that's a nifty spunding setup, can you link to that regulator somewhere?

I got this at Menards for under $10. The regulator is $4.99 and the 0-60psi gauge was $3.99.

It comes with 0-200psi gauge which is too big for spunding.

https://www.menards.com/main/tools-...4-c-12917.htm?tid=-1471029068640107017&ipos=3

https://www.menards.com/main/tools-...26-c-12917.htm?tid=7791624053417060948&ipos=4

 

[Schlenkerla]

Recapping the pieces left to right.

1) 1/4 NPT Brass plug, screwed into the high pressure side. Using Teflon tape.
2) The regulator and gauge.
3) 1/4 NPT to 3/16 Brass hose barb, screwed into the low pressure side. Using Teflon tape.
4) 3/16 Hose about 12" long, attached with hose clamp (on both ends).
5) 3/16 barb to 1/4 Female Flare Swivel.
6) Quick Disconnect ball-lock that has 1/4 flare.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Copied from, "What I did for beer today" thread.

The spund is typically with a set point to vent. This is a regulator with the quick disconnect on the low pressure side. The high side is plugged. The over pressure CO2 vents via the regulator.

In this case I have it to the max, plan to dial it back once it hits something over 16psi. Typically I preset it with an empty keg that's pressurized. I turn up the gas to 30 psi on my draft CO2. Then connect the spund and dial it back until it vents and the pressure drops, giving it a quarter turn to stop it at my set point. Then I'm ready to put it on a keg to spund beer at that pressure.

 

[Schlenkerla]

First beer with pictures...

Happy, happy, joy, joy!