Pilsner Mayhem

[Tomas Ramirez]

Hey everyone,

Brewed my first pils couple weeks ago and to my surprise i actually hit all my number perfectly.
Sampled my beer when i took my FG reading/ bottled the beer and it tasted great.
let sit for two weeks for bottle conditioning then put one in the fridge overnight for a sampler.
when i poured it aroma was nice a little hoppy (morebeer's pacific coast pils)
when i went in for a taste absolutely PUTRID hahaha first thought, poisonous.
almost has a spray can taste to the back of the mouth.
any ideas??


"the numbers"
OG- 10.51
FG- 10.10
FREM TEMP- 62-70f
DIF- 42 DAYS
YEAST- E491 CELLAR SCI

 

[lumpher]

E491 isn't a yeast. It's added to yeast to help in rehydration. Not nit-picking... only reason I bring this up is I think it has something to do with the type of yeast and ferm temps. Sounds like maybe a ton of fusels.

 

[worlddivides]

70F is extremely hot for the vast majority of lager yeasts. Most ferment in the upper 40s and low 50s, though there are some that can ferment nicely in the 60s. It'll depend on what yeast you used since, as Lumpher mentioned, E491 is a yeast emulsifier, not a yeast itself.

 

[jdauria]

I mean it seems your beer fermented, but unless your post cut off, what yeast did you actually use, as E491 is not a yeast...and it's usually used on in the baking world, not the brewing side of things. 70 is super warm for a lager yeast, only a few brands can handle that, like 34/70, so the yeast probably gave off a ton of esters. So you fermented it and then bottled it for two weeks...lagers need time to well, lager...to clean up after themselves, clean up sulfur, etc. I usually give my lagers a month after they are done fermenting, before kegging them.

My recommendation is if the bottles are carbonated, put them in a fridge and let them sit there for a month. Then try another bottle and see if it's any better, if not, then you know it's a dumper. It's possible what you are tasting is a combo of sulfur that was not cleared off, esters that formed from fermenting too warm and hop burn as I assume a Pacific Coast Pilsner = West Coast Pils and has a lot of hops in it and the flavor needs time to mellow.

 

[JackAttack939]

70F is extremely hot for the vast majority of lager yeasts. Most ferment in the upper 40s and low 50s, though there are some that can ferment nicely in the 60s. It'll depend on what yeast you used since, as Lumpher mentioned, E491 is a yeast emulsifier, not a yeast itself.

Traditional pilsners are cold fermented over long periods of time. 6 months of low and slow fermenting will make an amazing pils or marzen

 

[VikeMan]

Traditional pilsners are cold fermented over long periods of time. 6 months of low and slow fermenting will make an amazing pils or marzen

Cold stored over (sometimes) long periods of time. But nobody is fermenting lagers for 6 months.

 

[JackAttack939]

Cold stored over (sometimes) long periods of time. But nobody is fermenting lagers for 6 months.

You can call it laagering or cold conditioning, but the yeast are still working their magic after the initial fermentation, even in near freezing temps for weeks or months.

 

[VikeMan]

You can call it laagering or cold conditioning, but the yeast are still working their magic after the initial fermentation, even in near freezing temps for weeks or months.

I call it lagering or cold conditioning because that's what it is. The yeast may still be working some "magic" as you say, but it's not fermentation (i.e. attenuation). Not 6 months in. No way. You can prove this to yourself quite easily by measuring gravity.

 

[JackAttack939]

Google it! plenty of folks are doing it.
https://brausupply.com/blogs/learn-...e-to-perfecting-the-cold-conditioning-process

https://www.beveragefactory.com/blog/home-brewing/homebrewing-101-cold-fermentation

 

[VikeMan]

Google it! plenty of folks are doing it.
https://brausupply.com/blogs/learn-...e-to-perfecting-the-cold-conditioning-process

https://www.beveragefactory.com/blog/home-brewing/homebrewing-101-cold-fermentation

There is no attenuation happening at 6 months. BTW, neither of your links supports the assertion that there is. I've brewed a lot of lagers at home and a few commercially. I understand the process, but thanks for your input.

 

[JackAttack939]

Brother, its not personal nor was I challenging your experience or know how.

I googled "cold long term fermenting lagers" and read about extended periods of cold storage where a secondary fermentation occurs and continues working slowly metabolizing any remaining sugars.

My neighbor and I made a stellar "Marzen" once, we let it hang out/attenuate/2ndferment/ in a glycol controlled keezer for months! Then in late September we tapped the keg and crushed it the first night. All the neighbors gave rave reviews.

Dusted off the old grain bill:

 

[VikeMan]

I googled "cold long term fermenting lagers" and read about extended periods of cold storage where a secondary fermentation occurs and continues working slowly metabolizing any remaining sugars.

Google is great. Until it isn't. Any fermentation (attenuation, that is) still happening during cold storage is technically still part of primary fermentation, because no new fermentables have been added. Lots of people confuse secondary fermentation with transferring to a secondary vessel. The latter is what's actually (normally) happening with lagers (and most beers that have been moved from "primary"). But google will happily serve up the errors. But that's really beside the point, I guess. The question is... is attenuation still happening six months in. It's not. The "any remaining sugars" thing is important, because you'll reach a point fairly quickly where there are no (fermentable) sugars remaining. No amount of time, at any temperature, will allow yeast to use unfermentable dextrins.

I'm not opining at all about whether or not your beer is more awesome after 6 months of lagering than it was at 5, or 4, or "X." That's a different question.

My neighbor and I made a stellar "Marzen" once, we let it hang out/attenuate/2ndferment/ in a glycol controlled keezer for months! Then in late September we tapped the keg and crushed it the first night. All the neighbors gave rave reviews.

Congrats. The major things that were happening after a couple months in were some reduction of diacetyl (if any was left (or still being made from alpha acetolactate)) and the big one... sedimentation of yeast, proteins, and polyphenols, which is where the the crystal clarity and crisp mouthfeel come (in large part) from.

 

[Indian_villager]

Was this bad taste only on one bottle or multiple? Could be that you picked up an infection or something. When you say putrid, does it smell like a pack of bakers yeast or meaty? If so you could have ended up with the yeast autolyzing aka self destruction.