Make IPA Clear Again

[ajbosley2015]

Eye roll all you want I suppose, but this is what it looked like after sparge...

It was meant to be hazy, but I made a perfectly clear wort

People hate on it because they think it’s a flaw, it isn’t a flaw, it’s intended...and the yeast that do this, make wonderful and flavorful products

 

[couchsending]

Trigger warning
I brewed my own variant of the Pangaea Proxima Polar IPA for big brew day, and included WLP008 for haze

5 days later and it’s fully attenuated, it’s smooth and crisp.

It’s gonna be wonderful, and who says hazies have to be a certain color.

Come at meView attachment 679292View attachment 679293

You do realize that yeast is called East Coast yeast cause it’s Sam Adams ale yeast. It’s existed long before any hazy IPA. Has nothing to do with hazy beer at all.

 

[ajbosley2015]

You do realize that yeast is called East Coast yeast cause it’s Sam Adams ale yeast. It’s existed long before any hazy IPA. Has nothing to do with hazy beer at all.

I do, but apparently you don’t realize that white labs reformulated the strain to produce haze.

Nice try, but know what you are saying before you call someone out

 

[couchsending]

I do, but apparently you don’t realize that white labs reformulated the strain to produce haze.

Nice try, but know what you are saying before you call someone out

no they didn’t.. they reformulated the marketing marketing description

 

[ajbosley2015]

no they didn’t.. they reformulated the marketing marketing description

Whether it matters or not, it is important to note that they THINK it was a Sam Adams strain originally. When I say “they” I mean everyone outside of WL. Regardless of whether it was developed by Sam Adams or not, we can consider it similar to Chico. One strain was manipulated and altered over time to propagate differently. 008 is no different. If it was a Sam Adams strain, given the fact that 008 does not ferment clear, well...it has certainly been changed.

 

[couchsending]

Whether it matters or not, it is important to note that they THINK it was a Sam Adams strain originally. When I say “they” I mean everyone outside of WL. Regardless of whether it was developed by Sam Adams or not, we can consider it similar to Chico. One strain was manipulated and altered over time to propagate differently. 008 is no different. If it was a Sam Adams strain, given the fact that 008 does not ferment clear, well...it has certainly been changed.

Sure it ferments clear. It’s a low floccing yeast and has always been so. It takes fining and filtering or long lagering to make clear beer with it.

You don’t want low floccing yeast to make beer hazy actually. The lower the flocculation the clearer the beer will eventually become.

 

[Nagorg]

A hot new hazy IPA that tastes amazingly like a mimosa! They wont be able to keg enough of this stuff... I'm sure it will bring in the $$$!

 

[NeoBrew]

Is it called a mimosa?

 

[day_trippr]

Given today is Mommas Day and mimosa is traditonal...I'm guessing "yes"...

Cheers! (and the Clearies can scrape themselves off their respective ceilings. "It's gonna be ok" )

 

[rhys333]

A hot new hazy IPA that tastes amazingly like a mimosa! They wont be able to keg enough of this stuff... I'm sure it will bring in the $$$!

View attachment 679708

You're going to tell us that its actually fruit juice, aren't you?

 

[Nagorg]

You're going to tell us that its actually fruit juice, aren't you?

I honestly dont think you could tell the difference between this and some of the hazyboi's.

 

[Nagorg]

An insightful article!

How One Beer Geek Fell out of Love With Hazy IPA

 

[VirginiaHops1]

A hot new hazy IPA that tastes amazingly like a mimosa! They wont be able to keg enough of this stuff... I'm sure it will bring in the $$$!

View attachment 679708

Carbonate it and think of a trendy name and you're sitting on a pile of money

 

[Nagorg]

Any AHA members out there? The newest edition of Zymurgy has a pretty good article that in summary agrees that "NEIPA" should be disassociated from IPA. The suggestion is a new style, New England Ale. YES!!!

 

[day_trippr]

Speaking as a New Englander, I like it!

 

[wepeeler]

An insightful article!

How One Beer Geek Fell out of Love With Hazy IPA

Good read. Unfortunately, over saturation of the market was bound to happen because of the popularity of the style. Couple that with the idea that neipas are "easy to make" and you have every Tom, Dick, and Harry trying to make one (or 10). Falling out of love for a style simply because there are currently so many bad versions of it seems like overkill to me. What keeps him from drinking the neipas he loves/fell in love with? Simply because there are so many bad ones out there? That's just illogical.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

I guessed it's called NE IPA as it's an evolution from IPAs, the same way we call pastry stouts to something sweet and decadent and not roasty at all

The haze nowadays is usually produced as a by product of the hops biotransformation, so making them clear by filtering, would compromise the flavour and overall quality too much

 

[NeoBrew]

I guessed it's called NE IPA as it's an evolution from IPAs, the same way we call pastry stouts to something sweet and decadent and not roasty at all

The haze nowadays is usually produced as a by product of the hops biotransformation, so making them clear by filtering, would compromise the flavour and overall quality too much

So is this a justification of NEIPA by comparing them to another even more asinine beer style?

 

[day_trippr]

 

[OldDogBrewing]

So is this a justification of NEIPA by comparing them to another even more asinine beer style?

I'm just saying haha I mainly brew darks at home because I can't find anything else than pastries if I look for something with quality, so I'm not all aboard with the pastry trend as the only stout that is brewed

But it's an evolution from an already existing style so they just took the name from that original style

 

[NeoBrew]

I'm just saying haha I mainly brew darks at home because I can't find anything else than pastries if I look for something with quality, so I'm not all aboard with the pastry trend as the only stout that is brewed

But it's an evolution from an already existing style so they just took the name from that original style

But is it really an evolution from the original style? At some point it became it's own "species" that bares almost no resemblance to it's precedent. What is the similarity? That it is a dark beer? Ditto for NEIPA.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

But is it really an evolution from the original style? At some point it became it's own "species" that bares almost no resemblance to it's precedent. What is the similarity? That it is a dark beer? Ditto for NEIPA.

You have the same base but you cut down the bittering and roasty components to enhance the perceived sweetness so it goes along with all the **** they might throw, from vanilla to industrial pastry things like doughnuts and so

In a NEIPA you do the same, you aim for a bigger FG to have a sweetness to play with all the late additions, it was born when trying later and later hop additions, ending up with really big dh additions, that go from 16 gr/L to whatever you want to do, I can see the issue when they are marketed as IPA or DDH IPA, Hazy IPA and so on, like happens here in Europe, which brings a lot of confusion as West coast style and East Coast style are marketed under the same or similar names, but if ot says NEIPA you know what you're looking at, it's an IPA with more fruity hops and with late additions instead of focusing in the hot side like you would do in a West coast one, it's the same concept but a different interpretation, with time it has evolved to beers with creamy mouthfeel by the use of wheat and oat to enhance that juicy feeling, they are not the same, but they aren't do different either

 

[Andre3000]

You don’t want low floccing yeast to make beer hazy actually. The lower the flocculation the clearer the beer will eventually become.

Wait, what? Can you elaborate?

 

[OldDogBrewing]

Wait, what? Can you elaborate?

I don't know about what he said, but most hazy beers rely on biotransformation and not high protein grains and low floc yeast, low flock yeast may feel powdery sometimes so you don't want that, you want to use strains that favour biotransformation, Lallemand's has a short paper about that where analyze that on their strains

 

[Nagorg]

Wait, what? Can you elaborate?

I think @couchsending has things a little backwards... Higher flocculation produces clearer beer while lower floculation produces hazier beer.

https://www.whitelabs.com/resources/attenuation-and-flocculation
" Flocculation is a desirable and important characteristic that is unique to brewers yeast. When brewers yeast nears the end of fermentation, single cells aggregate into clumps of thousands of cells, and drop to the bottom of the fermentor, leaving clear beer behind. If yeast flocculate too early, the beer will be underattenuated and sweet. If yeast do not flocculate, the beer will be cloudy and have a yeasty taste. "

 

[stickyfinger]

i assure you couchsending knows what he is talking about. it might sound crazy, but i would say consensus is shifting in the homebrew NEIPA world such that high flocculation yeast is desirable in NEIPA. This is why - many of us have started fermenting out our NEIPAs to completion with diacetyl rest followed by a soft or cold crash for a few days to drop as much yeast as possible. No dry hops have been added up until this point. Then, we either dry hop with at least 1 oz/gal at soft/cold crash temps or some of us warm the beer back up to fermentation temps for a dry hop. Then, we soft/hard crash to drop large hop particles and more yeast. Finally, we rack to purged kegs.

Advantages:
-amazing hop flavor right away
-little to no hop burn
-fine hop particles stay in suspension for a ridiculously long time in the keg

The beers resulting from this process for me stay hazier for much longer than using a fermentation dry hop or dry hopping before dropping the yeast. And, they taste much better much sooner. The only disadvantages are that it takes a little longer to go from grain to glass and that you have to keep air out of the fermenter during the soft/cold crash or the beer can be ruined quite easily.

I think @couchsending has things a little backwards... Higher flocculation produces clearer beer while lower floculation produces hazier beer.

https://www.whitelabs.com/resources/attenuation-and-flocculation
" Flocculation is a desirable and important characteristic that is unique to brewers yeast. When brewers yeast nears the end of fermentation, single cells aggregate into clumps of thousands of cells, and drop to the bottom of the fermentor, leaving clear beer behind. If yeast flocculate too early, the beer will be underattenuated and sweet. If yeast do not flocculate, the beer will be cloudy and have a yeasty taste. "

 

[Nagorg]

The beers resulting from this process for me stay hazier for much longer

So sorry....

 

[stickyfinger]

Here's a question I've been wondering about. I haven't really made a west coast or northwest or old school IPA for a long time. How few hops do you have to add to make sure that it is clear or just slightly hazy? I remember in the old days I'd maybe add like 2 oz per 5-6 gallon batch. Or is it more a matter of dry hopping with more these days and then cold crashing a long time so all of the hops can fall out of suspension?

I think it also helps if you use traditional American hops. They don't seem to produce as much haze.

So sorry....

 

[InspectorJon]

I think @couchsending has things a little backwards... Higher flocculation produces clearer beer while lower floculation produces hazier beer.

As stated above yeast in suspension is not a desirable or common characteristic of a well made NE IPA. I think that idea is a holdover speculative thought from when brewers still did not really know what was causing the haze in these beers. Lots of people also thought it was the high protein adjuncts, which I guess may add some protein haze but that would go away as the beer warms. Most of the popular yeasts for these beers are medium to high floc varieties and you can make a hazy beer with a regular IPA grain bill and US-05. As a sweeping generality, haze happens because of the extreme amounts of dry hops that are used. There is a lot of info on the particulars of that in the exceptionally long NEIPA thread.

I think the hazy style evolved as a result of brewers trying to get lots of hop flavor without the overpowering bitterness that was becoming so common of clear "West Coast" IPAs. Lots of ideas and speculation get circulated as fact. (I hope I am not doing that.) I heard a professional brewer at a small local brewery ranting about hazy IPAs just a couple of days ago. He was talking about low flocculating yeast as a primary cause. I was not brave enough to go over and correct him.

I like the New England Ale label. I like the good examples of this style a lot. I think I agree this has evolved far enough that it deserves its own classification. Let's make IPA clear again.

 

[rhys333]

A NEIPA in itself is fine, if the brewer's intent is to create a hoppy, low bitterness beer. But some are obsessed by recreating the hazy orange juice side effect, which is a contrivance. In those instances, I think the mockery is well-deserved.

 

[Wayne1]

"...from Matt Curtis for the blog of marketing agency Mash, comes a guide designed to help brewers label their IPAs in ways that will avoid irritating or disappointing consumers: I can’t state this clearly enough: In a global market of over 20,000 breweries, you need to label your beer in a way that accurately describes to your customers what it’s going to taste like. If you’re going to sell an expensive ticket, the ride should be as advertised. "

 

[NTBeer]

"...from Matt Curtis for the blog of marketing agency Mash, comes a guide designed to help brewers label their IPAs in ways that will avoid irritating or disappointing consumers: I can’t state this clearly enough: In a global market of over 20,000 breweries, you need to label your beer in a way that accurately describes to your customers what it’s going to taste like. If you’re going to sell an expensive ticket, the ride should be as advertised. "

THIS. 1000 times this. Give me the beer I'm expecting.

 

[NeoBrew]

I accidentally bought a hazy the other day. I was reaching for a lager from a stack of 12 packs and didn't notice until I got home that it was actually a hazy in the same color packaging as the lager. (I'm not always the most detailed guy!) I'm not sure if the sign was wrong or they were just stacked right next to each other.

It's actually not that bad. If I pour really slowly and leave about 2 oz in the bottom of the can, It pours bright, has a great aroma and enough bite to be refreshing on the palate. If I pour the dregs out of the bottom of the can it's muddled thick and cloudy. The difference is night and day in my opinion.

 

[Saunassa]

A NEIPA in itself is fine, if the brewer's intent is to create a hoppy, low bitterness beer. But some are obsessed by recreating the hazy orange juice side effect, which is a contrivance. In those instances, I think the mockery is well-deserved.

This is one of the reasons I like the NEIPA from the two small town breweries near me. Both do a neipa style beer and both have a bit of a haze from the hops and not murky like someone dumped corn starch in it.

 

[dnr]

I accidentally bought a hazy the other day. I was reaching for a lager from a stack of 12 packs and didn't notice until I got home that it was actually a hazy in the same color packaging as the lager. (I'm not always the most detailed guy!) I'm not sure if the sign was wrong or they were just stacked right next to each other.

It's actually not that bad. If I pour really slowly and leave about 2 oz in the bottom of the can, It pours bright, has a great aroma and enough bite to be refreshing on the palate. If I pour the dregs out of the bottom of the can it's muddled thick and cloudy. The difference is night and day in my opinion.

What were you intending to buy vs what you got?

 

[NeoBrew]

This wasn’t a deceptive labeling thing. There was a sign for Surly Hell, a lager, and a stack of Surly Rocket Surgery Haze Ale right next to it. I don’t bought I was buying the lager. The box I bought is clearly labeled as a hazy. I just grabbed the wrong box and didn’t notice until I got home.

The two products DO both use a green, gray/silver and black label, but I think that is just coincidence.

 

[Mtrhdltd]

I've only started reading this thread but I feel so much better that I'm not alone! Im a hop head, at least that's what I used to be. Now I'm a bitter hop head, more ways than one. I've quit trying new beer because I want a bitter hopped beer with some citrus notes, not the other way. It's a shame too, who knows how many good beers im missing because I don't want juice. Im not saying they shouldn't exist, but they didn't have to replace what I like.

For those saying looks don't matter, what would you do if you ordered t- bone steak and it came out looking like ground beef? We eat with our eyes too! Every chef knows that, shouldn't every brewer too?

 

[Nagorg]

I've only started reading this thread but I feel so much better that I'm not alone!

You are NOT alone. Sadly the madness continues.

One of my most recent disappointments... The term "Mango" should have been a dead giveaway but I was drawn in to "Hatch Chile" and "IPA".

So sad. I really like this brewery and they have two solid IPA's but this beer disappointed on so many levels.

 

[balrog]

You are NOT alone. Sadly the madness continues.

One of my most recent disappointments... The term "Mango" should have been a dead giveaway but I was drawn in to "Hatch Chile" and "IPA".

So sad. I really like this brewery and they have two solid IPA's but this beer disappointed on so many levels.

View attachment 695588

Looks like it coulda used some donut bourbon barrel vanilla aged pastry milkshake avacado toast infused lacto pedofile soured smooth churn wet hopping. And prison. And mamma and rain and pickup trucks.

The country western ipa. You saw it here first.

[Edit: with apologies to country western songs everywhere. Because avacado.]

 

[NewJersey]

The future of IPAs