Make IPA Clear Again

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oh, i forgot to say that in my neipa tweaking i’ve tried tons of mineral profiles and buttering levels. i find there is wide divergence in what people prefer adjusting just these two things. it can make a flabby beer much more crisp and beer-like to boost sulfate and bitterness but still retain the amazing hop character in neipa. the modern conception of a purist neipa is low bitterness and low sulfate but that seems like only one part of the neipa spectrum in my experience.

NeoBrew said:
I’m a confirmed IPA lover. I’ve never had a NEIPA that I cared for at all. For the record, I LOVE orange juice and apple juice. I like pineapple juice too. I can appreciate sweet flavorful and aromatic drinks. I really enjoy mojitos and vodka gimlets.

When I want a beer I’d rather not have a watery, flabby off flavored glass of thick water that has some hop aroma.

I’m pretty sure I’ve never been lucky enough to have one of these world class examples, but every one I’ve tried as turned me off from the style.
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jeebus h christmas, the poor thing is long dead already!

giphy.gif
 
stickyfinger said:
...tweaking i’ve tried tons of mineral profiles and buttering levels...
Click to expand...
Bittering?
Or like not doing a proper diacetyl rest?
Partly joking, partly curious. Experiments. Lots of hazy boys are described as tasting like cake batter, fruity and something like cobbler. I could see diacetyl not being the worst thing if curbed and embraced.
 
ajbosley2015 said:
Why do you not attack Black IPAs in much the same way? They are obviously not "IPA"
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Whats a "Black IPA"? :p At least there's an instant visual clue that what was just poured in your glass is not the single acronym "IPA" that might have been on the label. That way you can shove it back toward the bartender saying "I didnt order a stout" or you can take the sixer (less one now) back to the store and claim poor QA by the brewery packaging line.

Qhrumphf said:
The reason why it's sticking around more than other trends is the approachability. It appeals to non-beer drinkers because of the fruitiness, and to non-IPA drinkers because of the low bitterness. Humans tend to not like bitter as a general baseline, and West Coast IPA can be assaulting to the unfamiliar.
Click to expand...

I do agree with this statement! If we really want to topple InBev, we should petition all the smaller breweries to make more "craft" BMC clones! That will really increase the numbers of craft beer lovers!
 
iamwhatiseem said:
It is a by product of craft beer entering into the mainstream.
It was a matter of time before craft brewers, like every other product maker, begin to create gimmicks to differentiate their products.
And sure enough one of the gimmicks will take - and just like that it goes from a gimmick to a fad.
Just wait another year or two... then you won't be able to find a hazy IPA anywhere.
Click to expand...

That's what I heard 2 years ago as well.
 
Jag75 said:
That's what I heard 2 years ago as well.
Click to expand...

I pray for the day... lol All kidding aside, just dont have them on half the taps and use accurate labeling while acknowledging turbidity does not mean "craft". The general acceptance of murk, regardless of style, is one of my biggest gripes about this fad. I sware that some of these clueless bartenders would serve you a glass of Czech Pils that you couldnt see through and tell you "It's craft beer sir..."
 
Speaking on the "requirements" for an IPA...I recently entered my New Mexico Hatch Chile 259 IBU IPA into a competition. I received 42/50...but with a 259 IBU IPA, the most resounding remarks from the three judges was that there was "zero hoppiness" or "zero bitterness", and had I claimed another base style (Winter/Spiced beer: Spice/Herb/Vegetable, base style IPA -- session strength) I would have received perfect or near-perfect scores (according to their remarks and judging scorecards).

The judges had an idea of what hops SHOULD taste like in an IPA, but had no idea the recipe and no idea that I had seemingly magnificently balanced hop profile with pepper flavor and lingering heat, had 4.5 ounces of hops in the boil and 5.25 ounces from 165 degree hop stand through dryhopping and only used two hops (El Dorado and Petoskey).

Point being, even certified judges are looking for a certain aspect in an IPA. Interestingly enough, had I intentionally brewed a hazy or NEIPA style with that beer (just changing yeast and water profile mostly) it probably would have ended up near perfect...because expectations would have been vastly different when putting it up to their mouth...but then again, would these judges knock me for clarity? How does a judge...judge clarity on a beer that should have none at all???

-btw I am not salty about that showing at the competition, I ended up pulling a silver medal with a beer that the judges said was not the right base style
 
NeoBrew said:
We can only hope...

If they don’t fade away, I wish they would at least fade in popularity enough to compel breweries to label beers better. I love West Coast style IPAs. I have taken to not trying new beers because it is nearly impossible to determine what style of IPA it is.
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It's funny you mention WCIPAs. I'm sure people said the exact same thing when they came along. Way too bitter, hate these things, can't wait until this fad fades away. I'll bet you people even said the same thing about pilsners when they were invented centuries ago. WTF is this lighter colored beer. Can't wait until this goes away!

The hazy style probably will wane in popularity a bit once the next big beer innovation comes along or some people just move on to drinking other styles but it's not going away.
 
ajbosley2015 said:
Speaking on the "requirements" for an IPA...I recently entered my New Mexico Hatch Chile 259 IBU IPA into a competition. I received 42/50...but with a 259 IBU IPA, the most resounding remarks from the three judges was that there was "zero hoppiness" or "zero bitterness", and had I claimed another base style (Winter/Spiced beer: Spice/Herb/Vegetable, base style IPA -- session strength) I would have received perfect or near-perfect scores (according to their remarks and judging scorecards).

The judges had an idea of what hops SHOULD taste like in an IPA, but had no idea the recipe and no idea that I had seemingly magnificently balanced hop profile with pepper flavor and lingering heat, had 4.5 ounces of hops in the boil and 5.25 ounces from 165 degree hop stand through dryhopping and only used two hops (El Dorado and Petoskey).

Point being, even certified judges are looking for a certain aspect in an IPA. Interestingly enough, had I intentionally brewed a hazy or NEIPA style with that beer (just changing yeast and water profile mostly) it probably would have ended up near perfect...because expectations would have been vastly different when putting it up to their mouth...but then again, would these judges knock me for clarity? How does a judge...judge clarity on a beer that should have none at all???

-btw I am not salty about that showing at the competition, I ended up pulling a silver medal with a beer that the judges said was not the right base style
Click to expand...

I would have liked to taste that -- but balance should not neutralize hoppiness -- weird comments.
 
ha ha. yes, bittering. i like a "zero ibu" neipa now and again but settled on 30-40 ibus at 60 minutes as my go to.

in my opinion, diacetyl in neipa is absolutely horrible and kills the beer for me. i had a long stretch where i just couldn't make any without getting diacetyl. i still don't know for sure what got rid of my problem, but i swear it was protecting the beer from oxygen ingress during cold crashing. ever since i started plugging up my carboys and strapping down the lids with rubber bands during cold crash, i haven't had any diacetyl in an ipa. it can be a huge problem with these beers due to the massive hopping loads. i also stopped dry hopping during active fermentation which helps with diacetyl i think.

one time i let an ipa completely finish out, like a good 14 days just to be sure it was done completely. i did a VDK precursor test and it was completely negative to my sense of taste. then, i dry hopped it with 1 oz/gal, let it rest a week and did another VDK precursor test. it had a ton of precursors!

i see Berkeley Brewing Science has a GE yeast that produces ALDC enzyme. i'd love to try that out sometime when they start produces smaller package sizes. i could co-pitch it with other strains for the diacetyl-killing potential.

Hop Creep Killah™ | BBS

dnr said:
Bittering?
Or like not doing a proper diacetyl rest?
Partly joking, partly curious. Experiments. Lots of hazy boys are described as tasting like cake batter, fruity and something like cobbler. I could see diacetyl not being the worst thing if curbed and embraced.
Click to expand...
 
Mer-man said:
I would have liked to taste that -- but balance should not neutralize hoppiness -- weird comments.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know it. Its a delicate balance with that brew...was absolutely incredible and hands down the best thing I have made to date. My traditional quad was close, but that beer was lights out. Interestingly enough I split it into two batches. The other half was apricot and the base tasted identical. The biggest point here is that there is a different between hop forward and hoppy bitterness...and people are expecting a certain thing when thjey drink an IPA and if it doesn't turn out exactly how THEY expected, it isn't worthy of being called an IPA. But lets face it, you can't make a 259 IBU beer that isnt bitter, but the fruit imparted flavor from the hops pushed the bitterness to the back burner. Hell, I could have used a hop like huell melon that gives a really subtle honeydew and a harsh green pepper flavor and it would have probably still gotten the same reaction out of them. If it isnt citra and mosaic, some people don't even think its an IPA
 
IPA isn't an acronym, it's an initialism. BOOM. IPA ceased meaning "india pale ale" years ago. It's now just IPA and means you need to have a load of hops in it. who cares about color.

Nagorg said:
Whats a "Black IPA"? :p At least there's an instant visual clue that what was just poured in your glass is not the single acronym "IPA" that might have been on the label. That way you can shove it back toward the bartender saying "I didnt order a stout" or you can take the sixer (less one now) back to the store and claim poor QA by the brewery packaging line.



I do agree with this statement! If we really want to topple InBev, we should petition all the smaller breweries to make more "craft" BMC clones! That will really increase the numbers of craft beer lovers!
Click to expand...
 
VirginiaHops1 said:
It's funny you mention WCIPAs. I'm sure people said the exact same thing when they came along. Way too bitter, hate these things, can't wait until this fad fades away. I'll bet you people even said the same thing about pilsners when they were invented centuries ago. WTF is this lighter colored beer. Can't wait until this goes away!

The hazy style probably will wane in popularity a bit once the next big beer innovation comes along or some people just move on to drinking other styles but it's not going away.
Click to expand...

touché

Clearly the example here is that people eventual figure out that giving it it's own name or at least a qualifier is a good idea. Even when I started brewing several years ago an American IPA was what you called a WCIPA to differentiate it from an English IPA.
 
when people saw and tasted light-colored pilsners they probably completely freaked out and thought, "this is the best beer i have ever tasted."
 
Some people probably loved it, sure. And some people probably complained because it was so much different than what they were used to. Like what's happening now with hazy IPAs and what's happened with literally every new style since the beginning of beer.
 
Why is Hefeweizen not subject to the same criticism? Because it’s such an old and accepted style?
 
NeoBrew said:
This is degrading into a circle jerk again. It's pretending to be an IPA!
Click to expand...

Except an IPA long ago ceased to be one particular thing. The version of the IPA that developed in the US bears only the most superficial resemblance to the English beer from which it got its name. And now we’ve recognized black IPAs, white IPAs, red IPAs. The NE is just another variety that happens to be characteristically hazy.
Sorry, but I just don’t see how the haziness somehow inherently makes the style, or substyle or whatever, somehow less legitimate. It’s just beer and a lot of people enjoy it. What’s the harm?
 
MagicRat said:
Except an IPA long ago ceased to be one particular thing. The version of the IPA that developed in the US bears only the most superficial resemblance to the English beer from which it got its name. And now we’ve recognized black IPAs, white IPAs, red IPAs. The NE is just another variety that happens to be characteristically hazy.
Sorry, but I just don’t see how the haziness somehow inherently makes the style, or substyle or whatever, somehow less legitimate. It’s just beer and a lot of people enjoy it. What’s the harm?
Click to expand...

https://dev.bjcp.org/style/2015/21/21A/american-ipa/
https://dev.bjcp.org/beer-styles/21b-specialty-ipa-new-england-ipa/
There is no problem with NEIPAs existing. It's simply mislabeling that that is the problem. If commercial breweries would stop blending all of the labeling into 'IPA' it would solve my problem.

Because, after all, an IPA is actualy: 2004 BJCP Style Guidelines
 
MagicRat said:
The NE is just another variety that happens to be characteristically hazy.
Click to expand...

It happens to be so far away from all other variants of the style that it should be in a class of it's own. It lacks the traditional bitterness (what some dont like about IPA) and it completely casts clarity to the side, bringing other things not typically associated with the style such as its mouthfeel etc...

As has been said before, most folks that dont like IPA seem to like the haziboi's. So again, why call it IPA to begin with? Oh wait, cause thats what brings in the $$$ and makes you one of the cool kids.
 
I think the debate about what IPAs are is kind of hilarious. After doing a lot of reading of historical English brewing (way too many hours with Ron Pattinson's work) the original IPAs were typically weaker than the pale ales from the same brewery, just much more heavily hopped. Even before 1900 when most English beers were strong, they were usually around 5%. Just buttloads of hops and insane calculated IBUs. And very likely delicious, amazing brett... So basically not anything we typically call IPA.

Now if you want to talk about Milkshake IPAs 😂
 
stickyfinger said:
ha ha. yes, bittering. i like a "zero ibu" neipa now and again but settled on 30-40 ibus at 60 minutes as my go to.

in my opinion, diacetyl in neipa is absolutely horrible and kills the beer for me. i had a long stretch where i just couldn't make any without getting diacetyl. i still don't know for sure what got rid of my problem, but i swear it was protecting the beer from oxygen ingress during cold crashing. ever since i started plugging up my carboys and strapping down the lids with rubber bands during cold crash, i haven't had any diacetyl in an ipa. it can be a huge problem with these beers due to the massive hopping loads. i also stopped dry hopping during active fermentation which helps with diacetyl i think.

one time i let an ipa completely finish out, like a good 14 days just to be sure it was done completely. i did a VDK precursor test and it was completely negative to my sense of taste. then, i dry hopped it with 1 oz/gal, let it rest a week and did another VDK precursor test. it had a ton of precursors!

i see Berkeley Brewing Science has a GE yeast that produces ALDC enzyme. i'd love to try that out sometime when they start produces smaller package sizes. i could co-pitch it with other strains for the diacetyl-killing potential.

Hop Creep Killah™ | BBS
Click to expand...

I love using ALDC for lagers. I'd never thought about it's potential application for hop creep. But no need for a special yeast when you can just add the enzyme.

Though the overattenuation part is arguably a bigger concern. And ALDC wouldn't help with that part.
 
where do you buy it? i’ve only seen it in huge quantities.

Qhrumphf said:
I love using ALDC for lagers. I'd never thought about it's potential application for hop creep. But no need for a special yeast when you can just add the enzyme.

Though the overattenuation part is arguably a bigger concern. And ALDC wouldn't help with that part.
Click to expand...
 
MagicRat said:
Except an IPA long ago ceased to be one particular thing. The version of the IPA that developed in the US bears only the most superficial resemblance to the English beer from which it got its name. And now we’ve recognized black IPAs, white IPAs, red IPAs. The NE is just another variety that happens to be characteristically hazy.
Sorry, but I just don’t see how the haziness somehow inherently makes the style, or substyle or whatever, somehow less legitimate. It’s just beer and a lot of people enjoy it. What’s the harm?
Click to expand...
There's a popular brewery in Atlantic Highlands NJ called Carton brewing.
They recently have put out a few beers they've called "Imperial oated&wheated double dry hopped pale ale"
I almost died laughing because that is more accurately what a NEIPA really is.
Where I live I've just become inundated with sludge IPAs and it kinda made me miss the bitter/clear/crisp/Brite/pine-resiny/citrus golden hued west coast beauties.
Seriously, any brewery can jam a beer full of oats/wheat, ferment with low flocculation yeast, and then spend the money on several big dry hops. That's not art or groundbreaking brewing.
I'm a pretty average beer guy (enjoy all styles) and at first I loved NEIPAs and then eventually tired of them. I suspect most will follow the same course
 
MagicRat said:
Why is Hefeweizen not subject to the same criticism? Because it’s such an old and accepted style?
Click to expand...

I think its because folks know what they're getting into with a hefeweizen, whereas *some* things labelled as an IPA, and are a hazy/neipa instead. While I have come across this, I feel like its few and far between ( at least around here, but this area isn't much of an IPA stronghold anyway).
Personally, they aren't my jam. I prefer 'hoppy' over 'juicy'. I generally assume anything with a ...lets say 'creative'... beer name, is probably something I won't like. My sister in law loves hazy ipa, so when I visit a random place that has one I figure she hasn't tried, I buy it for her. She generally gives me a sample of it, and very few have done it for me. It's less about the haze for me, and more about the flavor charactistic to the style (for me).

I must be bored on lay off. I told myself I would stay away from this thread. Sigh...
 
Trigger warning
I brewed my own variant of the Pangaea Proxima Polar IPA for big brew day, and included WLP008 for haze

5 days later and it’s fully attenuated, it’s smooth and crisp.

It’s gonna be wonderful, and who says hazies have to be a certain color.

Come at me
93088954-4B16-4B53-84CE-B43B5AF534AE.jpeg
71F62F78-BA8D-40CD-9C2D-1BF34C72C927.jpeg
 

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