Failed Cold Crash

[WCN]

I followed the directions provided in this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/cold-crashing-cider.46017/

After racking it 4 inches above the lees into a new carboy, I didn't have fridge space, so I left it outside in 5 degree weather for 24 hours. It was frozen slush when I brought it back in.

I let it settle from me transporting to the house, and let the ice melt, no longer. I then racked it again, and topped off head space with pasteurized orchard cider. I put an airlock on it, and decided to watch it over night.

1.) It was bubbling away this morning. What do you think my mistake was?

2.) Now that it's going again, I have some clear fridge space. I don't want to rack it again and give bacteria another go at my juice. Will malolactic fermentation occur if I let this new carboy sit in my extra fridge for a few months before bottling?

**Edit** : Wikipedia answered question 2 for me. "...the process is significantly inhibited at temperatures below 15 °C (59 °F)."

 

[Ashevillain]

I read the first 2 posts on that thread, and it seems pretty anecdotal, might have worked a few times for someone, but yeast is pretty hardy. Its going again because you added juice again, the yeast may have went temporarily dormant but some will wake back up and start working on the newly introduced sugars regardless of whether or not you physically remove some by racking. Also it sounds like the idea is to crash/rack a few points above FG, the introduction of fresh new sugars might have been a little too much incentive if you wanted the yeast to stay asleep.

 

[kh54s10]

I'm not sure of the reason you cold crashed, then transferred, then added more juice. Cold crashing in beer making is usually the last step before packaging. That is to drop the sediment and yeast in suspension making the beer more clear. It does not drop out all the yeast as evidenced by the fact that you add priming sugar to carbonate the beer without adding more yeast.

 

[WCN]

I'm not sure of the reason you cold crashed, then transferred, then added more juice.

I cold crashed to cause flocculation of the yeast. I racked to move the cider off of the flocculated yeast.

I did not add sugar to cause carbonation. I added fresh pasteurized cider to back sweeten, because, as I stated, I was under the impression that by following the process in the post I linked, that the amount of yeast left after crashing would not be enough to restart fermentation.

As another already posted, maybe the information on cold crashing provided by CvilleKevin (although he is a senior member with a lot of cider under his belt) only worked for him on accident.

The other possibility is that the UV pasteurization done at the orchard where I bought my juice did not actually kill all the natural yeast, so perhaps I introduced more with my back-sweetening.

Or perhaps I allowed my brew to thaw a little too long before my second rack, allowing some yeast to re-enter suspension. I guess I'll never know.

 

[Maylar]

Cold crashing still leaves yeast behind. You have to stabilize the cider with sulfite & sorbate after crashing before adding sweetening sugar or else the remaining yeast will ferment it.

 

[WCN]

Cold crashing still leaves yeast behind. You have to stabilize the cider with sulfite & sorbate after crashing before adding sweetening sugar or else the remaining yeast will ferment it.

So then my question becomes, what's the point of cold crashing before your cider is dry completely dry? Everywhere I look, I read "Cold crash your cider when it has the sweetness you like." Wouldn't the leftover yeast just kick back up and eat the sugar left over sugar the same way you are saying it would eat any added sugar?

 

[bernardsmith]

Much of what people self publish is nonsense. Some of it is arrant nonsense and the great majority is rubbish. You need to repeat the process several times to remove 100% of the yeast. If you remove 90% you still have a enough yeast to restart the fermentation. That said, I only know of commercial cideries that use this method... and presumably they have enough lab equipment and chemists to analyze slants to see if there is any viable yeast still present... In my opinion (and this may be arrant nonsense) trying to stop an active fermentation is like trying to catch a bullet between your teeth. Penn and Teller can do this ... but they are stage magicians and what they do is an illusion. You want a sweet cider? You allow the cider to ferment dry and then you stabilize and back sweeten. No sleight of hand. No magic bullet.

 

[Maylar]

So then my question becomes, what's the point of cold crashing before your cider is dry completely dry? Everywhere I look, I read "Cold crash your cider when it has the sweetness you like." Wouldn't the leftover yeast just kick back up and eat the sugar left over sugar the same way you are saying it would eat any added sugar?

Again, you need to stabilize the cider after cold crashing. Cold crashing accelerates the clearing process. You leave the apple pectin and the majority of yeast behind. After that you can add potassium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate to prevent further fermentation of any remaining sugar. But as Bernard said above, the yeast will still be there unless you cold crash and rack multiple times.

 

[WCN]

Again, you need to stabilize the cider after cold crashing. Cold crashing accelerates the clearing process. You leave the apple pectin and the majority of yeast behind. After that you can add potassium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate to prevent further fermentation of any remaining sugar. But as Bernard said above, the yeast will still be there unless you cold crash and rack multiple times.

Alrighty then. I'll see if I can't get the big brown truck out to my place with the chemicals you mentioned. Thanks for clearing up the remaining fog on this issue for me.

 

[WCN]

Much of what people self publish is nonsense. Some of it is arrant nonsense and the great majority is rubbish... No sleight of hand. No magic bullet.

Thank you. I've been quite confused by this idea that there is some mystical way to keep your cider at just the sweetness you want without adding chemicals or artificial sweeteners and sugar alcohols (at least at home). I think you pounded the last nail in that coffin for me. I appreciate it.

 

[Maylar]

Alrighty then. I'll see if I can't get the big brown truck out to my place with the chemicals you mentioned. Thanks for clearing up the remaining fog on this issue for me.

Rock & roll, brother. That's what we're here for.

 

[Morrey]

Thank you. I've been quite confused by this idea that there is some mystical way to keep your cider at just the sweetness you want without adding chemicals or artificial sweeteners and sugar alcohols (at least at home). I think you pounded the last nail in that coffin for me. I appreciate it.

Its easy to look at things as you did....so did I my first few go's at cider making.

I discovered WLP775 dry cider yeast which is going to bring your gravity low (not much way around that as you discovered) but still leaves good apple flavor which is critical. Once your cider hits a stable FG (mine started 1.057 and ended 1.000 this year) hit it with sulfite and sorbate to halt any fermentation that WILL happen if you add sugars to adjust sweetness levels w/o halting yeast future activity.

Looks like you are on the right track now.

 

[Silver79]

I'll give you my cold crash experiences and how I use that process in my cider making. After cider is done in primary or secondary I rack to keg, then sweeten with faj or brown sugar then keep it cold. I force carbonate in that keg and keep the whole thing cold in the fridge. I haven't ever noticed any of the ciders drying out over time this way as the continued cold seems to keep the yeast dormant. Several others I know use this method successfully. Not sure if you plan to keg or not? But it works.

 

[WCN]

I'll give you my cold crash experiences and how I use that process in my cider making...

Hi Silver! Thanks for the response. I hadn't planned out my endgame yet, and have done no research on kegging.

I suppose it belongs in a different thread, but I am definitely interested in learning more about forced carbonation.

I would agree based on my research that keeping it cold is one way to ensure fermentation doesn't kick back off. It definitely halts yeast activity but also halts the activity of the bacteria responsible for malolactic fermentation, which can take six months or more to finish out. I made a batch last year, my first, that I didn't allow to go through this process and it sure was inferior. So, I could possibly keg, but it will be months down the road, as I'm going to age this one out.

In the long run, I'm trying to work out my process on small batches. The endgame is that I will be selling this stuff, so don't want my consumers to have to worry about how they store it. I have a small orchard of about 300 trees (and planting more each season), and 100 of them are going to have their first full crop next fall. I'm going to have a lot of juice on my hands, and I am trying to learn how to handle it all the right way!

 

[Maylar]

Be aware that some yeasts, even wild yeasts, will continue to ferment at fridge temperatures. The cold does slow them down of course, and being in a keg you're not too worried about over carbing and blowing up bottles (the pressure release valve is a wonderful thing). But being cold isn't a guarantee that sugar won't continue to be converted.