English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Silver_Is_Money]

I think that if Ward Labs reported Phosphorous as PO4-P it would need to be counted as an Anion. But then for that case it would also need a multiplier. In water, Phosphorous is almost exclusively found in the form of PO4---. @cire, I'm going to have to think about this one...

 

[cire]

I think that if Ward Labs reported Phosphorous as PO4-P it would need to be counted as an Anion. But then for that case it would also need a multiplier. In water, Phosphorous is almost exclusively found in the form of PO4---. @cire, I'm going to have to think about this one...

I know in the analyses I've received it was an always shown as an anion and I suppose if the originals might be found, it could be possible to fathom out the manner of its calculation, but I think it is simply as PO4. This could take some time to be sure.

So @bwible you see even the well informed find water somewhat bemusing. Learn what you can, use what you know and understand, then if you want to reach the top, tell everyone you know better than they.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Each 'O' in PO4 is -2, and 'P' is +5.

(4 x -2) + (1 x +5) = -3

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

It could be that Ward Labs plus all of the rest of us (sans for @cire) have been getting this (I.E., Phosphorous) wrong for a good number of years. ????

 

[cire]

Right, first and foremost phosphorus/phosphate in water is usually quite low in level and insignificant in comparison with the vast quantities supplied by malted barley.

The analyst who tests my water considers a mg of phosphate as 0.0316 milliequivalents.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The analyst who tests my water considers a mg of phosphate as 0.0316 milliequivalents.

0.0316 milliequivalents of Anion or Cation as to charge?

 

[cire]

Sorry, anion.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Oops! Of course 'K' is Potassium, and 'P' is Phosphorous. Not the same animals. I certainly didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night. That plus I must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed.

How would Rosanne Rosannadanna have said it: Oh yah, "Never Mind"

K is a Cation
P (since it is almost always found as part of PO4---) is an Anion

 

[cire]

Just an update on my J.W.Lees Best Mild. Took a sample this morning to check gravity, which was as intended. However, it was much lighter than expected, seen here against a low winter sun through cloud.

Accordingly, dark caramel was added as the beer was transferred.

Below shows the compacted yeast cap shortly after starting the transfer, drifting gently towards the tap side of the vessel. As this yeast flocculates so robustly, there is no need to remove the cap, just to tilt the vessel as the surface closes on the tap to keep it above the outlet. The green beer was at 9C and exactly 7 days after pitching.

2

A quick taste was pleasant, so I'm quite hopeful for the finished outcome. About 29 litres was put into a large plastic barrel, plus a pin filled, dry hopped with 10 gm of Styrian Goldings (Celeia) that will likely be vented nicely in time for Christmas.

 

[bwible]

Brewing it today.

 

[cire]

The sun seen through Lees Mild less than 2 days from racking. It's also beginning to taste good.

 

[Miraculix]

View attachment 750026

The sun seen through Lees Mild less than 2 days from racking. It's also beginning to taste good.

Looking good! I just brewed a very simple mild (forgot the crystal completely ), just dark invert, pale malt and black wheat. It looks similar to yours! About to try it soon.

 

[cire]

Looking good! I just brewed a very simple mild (forgot the crystal completely ), just dark invert, pale malt and black wheat. It looks similar to yours! About to try it soon.

Let's be honest, dark Mild in more recent times (last hundred maybe) was mostly and simply one or more pale malts with some colour from one source and/or another with enough hops to balance sweetness. Can't remember using black wheat, although wheat has been a common ingredient in British beers for quite some time.

 

[Miraculix]

Let's be honest, dark Mild in more recent times (last hundred maybe) was mostly and simply one or more pale malts with some colour from one source and/or another with enough hops to balance sweetness. Can't remember using black wheat, although wheat has been a common ingredient in British beers for quite some time.

I also never tried the black wheat before, I just wanted to give it a try. It actually also makes quite a good coffee substitute, just steep like black tea and add some milk, tastes better than the decaf stuff you can buy in stores.

So, good stuff imo. Doesn't have this licorice thing going on that some chocolate malts made from barley have.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I think I have finally nailed Machine House Mild clone, or as close as I can get without a cask. Will take it by the LHBS on Friday as these folks both have good palates and know the original from the brewery. If I pass their taste test, will update here and start a cloned thread. Here's a teaser (sorry no sunlight as a backdrop - that won't happen in Seattle until June).

 

[kmarkstevens]

Okay, I humbly submit that is one of the better mild recipes that you can clone. at 3.7% ABV, you can and will drink pint after pint of this little dark beauty of a thirst quencher.

Big hit at the LHBS store. One tweak from that master palate who also drinks at the brewery is to add 1/8 - 1/4 teas Epsom salt.

Bill Arnott,owner and head brewer at Mahchine house brewery is a friendly chap from the UK. Happy to talk beers and give hints to homebrewers. This reciepe is a mashup of what he told me on two different occasions, and then what was published in Beerandberewing.com

All- grain Machine House Mild clone
Batch size:5 gallons (19L)brewhouse efficiency: 72%
OG: 1036
FG: 1008
IBU: 20
ABV: 3.7%

Malt bill
5.5# maris
8oz Bairds Chocolate Malt
5.2oz Bairds Chrystal 50-60
5.2oz Bairds Chrystal 135 - 16

Hop schedule:
.45 oz progress at 60minutes (11IBU)
1.4oz Progress at 5 minutes (7IBU)
.4oz First Gold at 5 minutes (2 IBU)
(pretty much any English hops will do as this is lightly hopped)

Minerals:
1/8-1/4 teas epsom salt to pull out just a hint of metallic taste to fully clone this beer.
I use 1/2 teas gypsom and 1/2 teas calcium cloride based on my local water

Yeast: fullers - I personally recommend Imperial Pub based on multiple blind taste testings vs wyeast of white labs

Mash at 152F for 60 minutes
Top up to 6 gallons
Chill to 68F
Pitch yeast and allow to rise up to 80F

Best if keg conditioned/spunded.

Cask 1.7-1.9 volumes of CO2

I pitched on a big yeast cake and fermentation was essentially completed in 24 hours. Spunded by adding 1/2 white sugar.

Bill originally told me that he used american 2-row owing to the Bairds adjuncts. But it certainly works with Maris Otter. Prolly any English grain would be fine.

Happy Brewing

 

[Derp]

Minerals:
1/8-1/4 teas epsom salt to pull out just a hint of metallic taste to fully clone this beer.
I use 1/2 teas gypsom and 1/2 teas calcium cloride based on my local water

Chill to 68F
Pitch yeast and allow to rise up to 80F

Machine House's dark mild is one of my favorite beers, so I'm going to give your recipe a try soon.

A couple of questions:

What's your finished water profile? I'll be building up RO water because mine is crap from the tap, so it would be nice to have something to shoot for.

How long do you take to rise to 80? I'll probably have to add some heat, but I don't want to do it too quickly. Do you leave it at 80 for the rest of the fermentation?

Cheers!

 

[kmarkstevens]

@Derp Are you the member that has a son in Seattle, and you've picked up the box of the mild at the brewery before? It is a crackin' good beer and definately in my top 10 all time favorites. Now you may need a beer engine and a firkin to get all the way there. This recipe is dang close and I challenge you to stop at just one pint in the evening. (If you do come thru Seattle and stop at Machine House, sent message and I might buy you a beer)

Unfortunately, you'll have to ask Bill the brewer. I use Bellevue tap water, and my LHBS guy said to add 1/2 teas gypsum and 1/2 teas calcium cloride to all my brews.

The epsom I have not actually tried before but will be doing this one again within the week.

Again, this was from the brewer: Chill to 68F, pitch yeast and allow to rise up to 80F.

What I did. Let the wort cool overnight so it was probably 55-60F when I transferred it on top of the yeast cake from another mild. Into my bathroom which is 68F during the day and probably drops down toward 60F in the middle of the night. It was a fast and furious ferment that started within a few hours, and had dropped to 1012 within 24 hours. I did not note the wort temperature. I was tempted to spund it in the keg right then but left it in the primary for about a week. For the last few days I moved the fermenter to a different bathroom that is about 76F during the day for a few days. Then into the keg with a spunding valve and ~1/3 cup white sugar.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Oh, and I noticed that both Northern Brewer and Midwest now carry Chevallier. I've got an order on the way.

 

[cire]

@Derp

The epsom I have not actually tried before but will be doing this one again within the week.

Again, this was from the brewer: Chill to 68F, pitch yeast and allow to rise up to 80F.

Allowing fermentation temperature to rise naturally with heat from fermentation was normal practice in traditional British brewing. Well water would be circulated through internal pipework to set an upper limit or retard rapid temperature rise, depending upon the stage of fermentation, strain of yeast and desired flavor profile. High temperatures early in fermentation can produce hot alcohols, while can later create desirable flavors as well as reaching a lower gravity more quickly.

Magnesium is much maligned by some brewers, and while it wouldn't improve a great Pilsner or be an essential ingredient for a good Pale Ale, darker beers can be transformed by its inclusion. Barley does not grow in soils that lack magnesium, but will with lower calcium. Malted barley brings about 40 ppm calcium and 400 ppm magnesium to a typical beer, yet it is often written that a small amount can spoil a beer, while less than 10% of Epsom Salt is magnesium and most is water.

My supply typically brings 40 ppm magnesium and to be quite honest it makes my darker beers better and doesn't worsen my pale ales. For most light lagers my eldest daughter's water supply is better. Half a teaspoon of Epsom Salt in a 5 US gallon brew will add about 15 ppm magnesium.

 

[Derp]

@Derp Are you the member that has a son in Seattle, and you've picked up the box of the mild at the brewery before? It is a crackin' good beer and definately in my top 10 all time favorites. Now you may need a beer engine and a firkin to get all the way there. This recipe is dang close and I challenge you to stop at just one pint in the evening. (If you do come thru Seattle and stop at Machine House, sent message and I might buy you a beer)

Yeah, I'm the guy. We picked up another box of mild for my son's bachelor party in August, and it was fantastic. I was there again a few weeks ago, but it was fresh hop season, so we just did the festival and a bunch of IPA breweries. I'll give you a shout the next time I'm heading to Machine House.

I found the article with the recipe, and the instructions say "allowing the temperature to free rise as high as 80°F", so I take that to mean that 80 is the upper limit. I'd have no problem reaching that in the summer, but my temperature controlled fermentation chamber won't get that high without heat in the winter. I can heat and cool as necessary, so I think I'll pitch at 68 and let it ramp up to 75-ish over the course of two or three days. I'll just keg it at a low carbonation level and call it good. My keezer recently died, and it's almost impossible to find a replacement that would fit the wooden collar, so I'm going to drill some holes in my garage fridge and serve it colder than I should. I'll probably let the pint (or maybe a pitcher) sit out for 20-30 minutes to let it warm up a bit.

I'll figure out the water. I have a rough idea of where it should be.

Thanks for posting the recipe!

 

[DuncB]

Pour into a glass that has been fillled with hot water for a while. That helps a bit, they think I'm mad when I ask for this in a pub down here, but you wouldn't drink red wine ice cold.
I have toyed with getting some of those whisky rocks and heating those up but can't find a practical way to transport hot rocks around in my pocket. Although strapped to my pocket warmer would do it I suppose.
If you get a beer engine with a jacket on the cylinder you could run warm water in the jacket.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Allowing fermentation temperature to rise naturally with heat from fermentation was normal practice in traditional British brewing. Well water would be circulated through internal pipework to set an upper limit or retard rapid temperature rise, depending upon the stage of fermentation, strain of yeast and desired flavor profile. High temperatures early in fermentation can produce hot alcohols, while can later create desirable flavors as well as reaching a lower gravity more quickly.

Magnesium is much maligned by some brewers, and while it wouldn't improve a great Pilsner or be an essential ingredient for a good Pale Ale, darker beers can be transformed by its inclusion. Barley does not grow in soils that lack magnesium, but will with lower calcium. Malted barley brings about 40 ppm calcium and 400 ppm magnesium to a typical beer, yet it is often written that a small amount can spoil a beer, while less than 10% of Epsom Salt is magnesium and most is water.

My supply typically brings 40 ppm magnesium and to be quite honest it makes my darker beers better and doesn't worsen my pale ales. For most light lagers my eldest daughter's water supply is better. Half a teaspoon of Epsom Salt in a 5 US gallon brew will add about 15 ppm magnesium.

Thanks for posting. It's like having a tailor made master class.

 

[cire]

Thank you, that's very kind, but I can't claim to be a master. For 50 years I've brewed, mostly British styles and some continental's to find occasions here when substantially different advice for ingredients, processes and even philosophy advocated, all of which are well and good until the objective is the replication of British Cask Ale. There are new breweries in Britain and some more established ones that brew American style ales, including demand for their products, but I'm one in no great hurry to find them.

My J.W.Lees Best Mild racked last Monday has by today mellowed into a broad complex chocolate aroma and flavor, exactly 2 weeks from brewday. It is now beautifully smooth, although it would be wrong to describe it ever was raw or aggressive, just not perfectly smooth.

This is in a British half pint (10 ounce) glass and the color at the base is perfectly clear and more red than the picture suggests. This was poured from a plastic barrel with tap and not through a beer engine which would have produced a better head and probably would tase even better. I've got that pleasure to come when the pin is vented.

 

[rmr9]

I decided to try wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire in an open ferment beating the yeast back in the morning and evening. I can’t believe how fruity smelling it is, I’ve never had such an aromatic ferment. The whole basement smells like a fruitcake!

 

[cire]

I decided to try wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire in an open ferment beating the yeast back in the morning and evening. I can’t believe how fruity smelling it is, I’ve never had such an aromatic ferment. The whole basement smells like a fruitcake!

Yes indeed, and pleasing to read your posting. I was a little surprised at the first rousing of the J.W.Lees Best Mild with no discernable hop aroma and strong dark malt domination. That changed to produce similar aromas to your description. My wife is not a beer drinker, not even mine although when requested she will critique them. However, she has no such qualms when invited to take in the aroma of a current fermentation.

I'm well aware that for lots of good reasons, many brewers keep their ales in kegs under pressure of CO2 and refrigerated at lower temperatures than are Cask Ales in Britain. But I'd like to suggest, if any with a microwave oven have not so far tried, to microwave for 20 seconds or more, a two thirds or so glass of well carbonated and chilled ale until it warms to an even 60F plus. Then put a head back with a good splash more while rousing the temperature to say, 56F and comparing any difference in texture, taste and aroma. Obviously anyone arriving home after a full day in the sun and desperate for a cold and refreshing beer, that wouldn't be their first choice, but I am curious to learn from what findings there might be from doing that in proper circumstances.

 

[DuncB]

The microwave trick certainly works for a bottle of red wine in an emergency.

 

[rmr9]

Yes indeed, and pleasing to read your posting. I was a little surprised at the first rousing of the J.W.Lees Best Mild with no discernable hop aroma and strong dark malt domination. That changed to produce similar aromas to your description. My wife is not a beer drinker, not even mine although when requested she will critique them. However, she has no such qualms when invited to take in the aroma of a current fermentation.

I decided to take a gravity ready and I’m down to 1.012 from 1.050 in a shade under 72 hours, I can see how rousing affects the speed! I decided to toss an airlock on top and I’ll probably give it until the weekend until I rack it to a pin with a touch of corn sugar for conditioning.

The proof of the pudding is in the taste, but I have a good feeling about this batch. I may be an open ferment + yeast rousing convert for my English ales. Thanks for the inspiration Cire!

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

A question about hopstands for those of you who practice them.
I plan on incorporating hop stands in my future brews, at least when brewing bitters, and just wondering if my planned approach seem reasonable.
I usually for my bitters, add 1g/L of hops at 15 min left and then 3g/L right before I turn off the heat, move the kettle and start chilling. My plan is to chill to 80c, turn off the water to the IC and simply let it sit for 15 min before I continue chilling, I suppose this wont give me any notable bitterness contribution and I can continue calculating for about 0.7 bu/gu ratio. However I wonder if I should dial back the flameout addition a bit, or would you Keep it as is?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Also been thinking about ditching the 15 min hops and just do a fairly large flameout addition, since the 15 min stand will likely extract both flavour and aroma.