Smoked Vanilla Porter recipe suggestions

[Jribthebrewer]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and thought I would start by seeking your learned views on my smoked vanilla porter recipe (which I cobbled together from various other recipes online).

I have fairly limited access to a wide variety of grains and hops, but if you had any suggestions on ingredients that may work better, please let me know!


IBU: 27 (Tinseth)
Color: 79 EBC
Batch Size 11L
ABV: 6.7%
BrewZilla 35L

Fermentables (3.6 kg)
3 kg - Pale Malt 2-Row 3.9 EBC (83.3%)
250 g - Smoked Malt 3.9 EBC (6.9%)
150 g - Black Malt 1400 EBC (4.2%)
150 g - Chocolate Malt 900 EBC (4.2%)
50 g - Brown Sugar, Light 15.8 EBC (1.4%)

Hops for boil
60 min - 17 g - Kent Goldings
30 min - 13 g - Kent Goldings
5min - 10 g - Tettnang

Hop Stand
10 min hopstand @ 92 °C
10 min - 10 g - Tettnang - 5% (2 IBU)

Miscellaneous
Flameout - 10 ml - Vanilla extract
Secondary - 1-2 Madagascar vanilla beans

Yeast
1 pkg - SafAle English Ale S-04

Other stats
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65%
Mash Efficiency: 73.9%

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Personally I would loose the vanilla and only use UK hops.

 

[Jribthebrewer]

Personally I would loose the vanilla and only use UK hops.

Thanks for the input. Do you have any thoughts on the mash bill?

 

[Climb]

My second to last brew was a smoked lactose porter; kind of similar to what you are thinking. Here is my input ...
1. This is a malt forward style, so why such a complex hop schedule. I'd suggest simplifying what you have above, maybe just a 60 minute addition to achieve your desired IBUs. I would drop the hop stand.
2. What kind of smoked malt do you plan to use? There are different kinds. I am not a fan of peat smoked malt, so I use beechwood smoked malt and find that it is very mild. I also find that the smokiness fads with time. Depending on your desired taste, I would recommend making beechwood smoked malt somewhere between 10% and 15% of the grist. I think this is a good range to start and you can adjust it as needed for additional batches. I also suggest taking some good notes on the aroma and strength of the smoke flavor in your smoked malt. This should help with future recipe adjustments.
3. Save you money on the vanilla beans and add the vanilla extract to taste at packaging.
4. Your color is pretty dark for a porter. At 79 EBC, it's going to look more like a stout.
Good luck.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Thanks for the input. Do you have any thoughts on the mash bill?

Mash bill is fine.

 

[Jribthebrewer]

My second to last brew was a smoked lactose porter; kind of similar to what you are thinking. Here is my input ...
1. This is a malt forward style, so why such a complex hop schedule. I'd suggest simplifying what you have above, maybe just a 60 minute addition to achieve your desired IBUs. I would drop the hop stand.
2. What kind of smoked malt do you plan to use? There are different kinds. I am not a fan of peat smoked malt, so I use beechwood smoked malt and find that it is very mild. I also find that the smokiness fads with time. Depending on your desired taste, I would recommend making beechwood smoked malt somewhere between 10% and 15% of the grist. I think this is a good range to start and you can adjust it as needed for additional batches. I also suggest taking some good notes on the aroma and strength of the smoke flavor in your smoked malt. This should help with future recipe adjustments.
3. Save you money on the vanilla beans and add the vanilla extract to taste at packaging.
4. Your color is pretty dark for a porter. At 79 EBC, it's going to look more like a stout.
Good luck.

My second to last brew was a smoked lactose porter; kind of similar to what you are thinking. Here is my input ...
1. This is a malt forward style, so why such a complex hop schedule. I'd suggest simplifying what you have above, maybe just a 60 minute addition to achieve your desired IBUs. I would drop the hop stand.
2. What kind of smoked malt do you plan to use? There are different kinds. I am not a fan of peat smoked malt, so I use beechwood smoked malt and find that it is very mild. I also find that the smokiness fads with time. Depending on your desired taste, I would recommend making beechwood smoked malt somewhere between 10% and 15% of the grist. I think this is a good range to start and you can adjust it as needed for additional batches. I also suggest taking some good notes on the aroma and strength of the smoke flavor in your smoked malt. This should help with future recipe adjustments.
3. Save you money on the vanilla beans and add the vanilla extract to taste at packaging.
4. Your color is pretty dark for a porter. At 79 EBC, it's going to look more like a stout.
Good luck.

1. Thank you for the helpful comments on the hop schedule. Perhaps I will drop the Tettnang and just stick with the two Kent Goldings additions. 2. I was planning to use Weyermann Smoked Malt, which I think is beech, but I will check with my online vendor. Thanks for the tips on grist! 3. Yes I’ve seen mixed views on extract vs beans - have you tried both?

 

[Jribthebrewer]

Mash bill is fine.

Thanks!

 

[Climb]

Yes I’ve seen mixed views on extract vs beans - have you tried both?

I have only tried vanilla beans and I was not pleased with the cost:flavor ratio they provided. That's why I recommend and will use extract at packaging when I want to add vanilla to a beer.

 

[G_robertus]

I'd drop the late hops and skip the extract. If you really want to use it, use it cold and not warm. You can make your own extract using vanilla beans and vodka. It will take some time, but after three months it tastes wonderful.

What brand is your smoked malt? I'd say you're a bit low if you still want to taste the smoke properly. Weyermann is very mild nowadays and I'd go at least 50% smoked malt, especially when it's old. I also wonder what your sugar does and I would just leave it out.

 

[Jribthebrewer]

I'd drop the late hops and skip the extract. If you really want to use it, use it cold and not warm. You can make your own extract using vanilla beans and vodka. It will take some time, but after three months it tastes wonderful.

What brand is your smoked malt? I'd say you're a bit low if you still want to taste the smoke properly. Weyermann is very mild nowadays and I'd go at least 50% smoked malt, especially when it's old. I also wonder what your sugar does and I would just leave it out.

Thank you for the great suggestions! Yes I am using Weyermann beech, so maybe I will change my malt bill to be:
1.7kg 2-row
1.7kg smoked
150g Black
150kg chocolate

And no sugar. One follow-up question. Is there a case for dropping the Black and just using 300g Chocolate? What do you think?

I will try the homemade vanilla extract with vodka-thanks!

 

[G_robertus]

I'd leave it in. Most dark beers benefit from some roast complexity and using two malts is the best way to achieve that. You could if you want change the ratios a bit and do something like 7/3% or 8/2% chocolate/black instead of 5% each. Some people find black malt very acrid, but I don't tend to agree. Especially British black malt is not very acrid to me. However, I do find that the taste is very similar to chocolate malt but more intense and a tad sharper, though not much. You could look into pale chocolate instead of regular, but I think like this it'll work just fine.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I'm not a fan of smoked malt or of vanilla in beers myself, but many are. I'm struggling to imagine that both things together is a good idea though. Perhaps I am wrong.

I would be putting some crystal malt in a porter myself. And I would lose the Tettnang and use a different yeast. Lalbrew Verdant works really well in a porter, I've done a few.

Just my 2p (2c).

 

[bwible]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and thought I would start by seeking your learned views on my smoked vanilla porter recipe

Why do newer brewers always just want to dive in to complex recipes? I laugh because I did it too. The first recipes I was asking my homebrew shop guy about way back when were how to make lagers. My favorite at the time was Molson Golden, before I discovered alot of other stuff. I didn’t have the right size brew pot yet and I didn’t even own a wort chiller yet let alone a fermentation fridge and I wanted to make lager. Then within my first 5 batches I found a recipe for Theakston’s Old Peculier. Let’s say that didn’t turn out so well.

 

[Rish]

Theakston’s Old Peculier

This was my second brew. Guess what?

 

[Jribthebrewer]

I'm not a fan of smoked malt or of vanilla in beers myself, but many are. I'm struggling to imagine that both things together is a good idea though. Perhaps I am wrong.

I would be putting some crystal malt in a porter myself. And I would lose the Tettnang and use a different yeast. Lalbrew Verdant works really well in a porter, I've done a few.

Just my 2p (2c).

Thank for the suggestion. Do you have any thoughts on how dark (c15, c40, c75?) and how much you would add?

 

[Jribthebrewer]

Why do newer brewers always just want to dive in to complex recipes? I laugh because I did it too. The first recipes I was asking my homebrew shop guy about way back when were how to make lagers. My favorite at the time was Molson Golden, before I discovered alot of other stuff. I didn’t have the right size brew pot yet and I didn’t even own a wort chiller yet let alone a fermentation fridge and I wanted to make lager. Then within my first 5 batches I found a recipe for Theakston’s Old Peculier. Let’s say that didn’t turn out so well.

Thanks! Yeah I am still about 20 brews in and this is my first dark beer so the advice really helps!

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Thank for the suggestion. Do you have any thoughts on how dark (c15, c40, c75?) and how much you would add?

I vary the crystal type. All good. Maybe go down the middle first time. I use English crystal cos I'm English and I live in England! I can't vouch for US crystal, never used it. But I like Carabohemian too.

 

[AlexKay]

To me, at least, estery ale yeast doesn’t match well with smoke. (German rauchbier is typically lager.) I’d suggest Lallemand Nottingham, or Saflager W34/70 (which will be fine even if you end up fermenting it warm.)

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

If you want a nice chocolate background to go with your vanilla (skip the beans, extract is way cheaper and easier)...

4 to 6% medium crystal (for a little sweetness) [anything between 60 and 90 lovibond will be great]
5% chocolate malt (for chocolatey/mocha aroma)
3% pale chocolate malt (big chocolate flavor)
1 to 2% black malt (just a touch of a sharp bite)

I've never used smoked malt, so no opinion there.
Sugar is a perfectly fine addition, can't go wrong with 0 to 10%
S-04 is great for porters.

Also: adding vanilla extract at flameout is probably going to evaporate ALL of the vanilla flavor. Add that to your bottling bucket, or dose the bottles individually with an eye-dropper.