"you won't save money homebrewing"

[Randomnoob]

Interesting conversation here. I did some quick math with my calculator and I figured up to this point after 5 years and about 100 batches I’ve spent about 90 cents per bottle if I factor in the cost of equipment (a one time cost that is dropping as I keep brewing), propane, co2 tank refills, ingredients, etc. On the flip side, when I bought beer pre-2013, I would almost never share any of it. I’d buy a 6 or 12 pack of craft beer and drink it by myself over the course of a few weeks. Today I share a lot of it because I want to make my next beer, I get excited about brewing something new. So does it save me money? Probably not. But it’s fun as hell.

 

[jaybo]

I absolutely save money on brewing vs buying craft beer. I use keggles for my 3 vessel system that I paid $20 a piece for (plus $50, or so in hardware). I buy my grains and hops in bulk, and use natural gas to brew with. My kegs were my biggest investment and my keezer is one that got re-purposed after several years. Bottles came from saving them, or friends bringing me theirs. I did splurge a few days ago and buy a Heady Topper clone kit, but I don't do that very often at all. I don't count my time brewing, as it's time spent with my son's. I would love one of those $5000 dollar systems, but what I have suits me just fine.

 

[BrewZer]

My latest batch cost me $.08 an ounce. Sam Adams costs me ~ $.14 an ounce at the local grocery store.

So I'm not paying as much for beer as I would at the store, but this doesn't factor in time/propane/convenience.

But I'm totally retired, so I figure those costs don't really matter that much anyway.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

My last batch cost me $3.25 a bottle. American Barleywine. 1 gallon batch. 3 ounces of hops. 6.25 lbs. of malt. Nottingham yeast packet. Purchased water and ice. No sparge no squeeze BIAB 50% efficiency, 29% trub loss. Fresh batches of Oxyclean and Starsan for both brewing and bottling. I’m not counting my time or the 1/8 cup of priming sugar or bottle caps. The small taste of the green beer was like it had rained down from heaven. I am looking forward to having the aged beer at Christmas. ABV is right around 10%. I’m calling it Count Your Blessings American Barleywine.

 

[bendog15]

I’m handy, and cheap. I’ve built all my own homebrewing equipment. I currently all-grain brew, and I’ve done the math. Buying grains in bulk, and vacuum sealing hops, my cost is between .44-.50 cents per 12 oz beer.
That’s pretty good considering the beer I’m making is good quality craft beer, $3 a six pack comparable to $9-$13 a six pack at the store.
However many additional costs come into play. I don’t calculate the propane I use, nor the cost of refrigeration. I’ve also spent nearly 1K building my dream keezer which I love and put new kegs of beer in every 2 weeks.
I compare it to the kitchen. If you love cooking, you’ll probably invest in a good set of pots and pans. You’ll probably cook some great meals at home, for cheaper, but the initial setup will cost some money. Same for us Homebrewers. We make some great beers at home.

 

[Conehead]

You definitely need a better pizza place. I paid $5 for a 28oz mug of Enjoy By last night!

That seems to be the cost of beer in most places where I live in Ontario. Taxes are the reason.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Compared to my other hobbies, homebrewing has been very inexpensive.

 

[lump42]

I've been using the same brew pot for 10+ years. Most brewing equipment should last a good long while. I might have $2000 invested into equipment after all these years.

Let's say 2 cases of craft beer is $80. I bet 60 beers of Lablatts would be about the same around here. But something like High Life might be $36 or so. If all I drink is High Life I might be losing. But.. If I want craft beer... On the high end I can brew two cases for $40 (includes energy, cleaners, yeast starter, CO2, etc.). Let's say I brew 20 times this year. So I'd save $800. So in two and a half years I'd break even on equipment I've purchased over 10+ years.

It is interesting to think about. I guess I could save even more if I didn't drink at all...

It'll take a bit longer to break even if you take your time into account and the opportunity costs, that you could be doing something else. But this hobby saves money compared to others, like owning a boat or a horse, and I get beer at the end

 

[rondemay]

I save money buy washing yeast, growing my own hops, and filtering my own water. I've recently been moving into growing my own barley. These are a few of the DIY activities that save me money.

 

[BrewZer]

I save money buy washing yeast, growing my own hops, and filtering my own water. I've recently been moving into growing my own barley. These are a few of the DIY activities that save me money.

Be careful that you don't spend so much time growing/building stuff for your hobby that you don't have time to brew any more...

 

[Jayjay1976]

people are stupid.

you could have a good but simple beer for 20 cents a 330ml homebrewed.

Explain? How can you get the cost down to 20 cents per bottle, unless you're brewing with free rejected cupcakes???

 

[Jayjay1976]

Homebrewing to save money on beer is like buying a bass boat to save money on fish.

Bassboat=$20,000
Elec BIAB=$350

Ur math suxx.

 

[Jayjay1976]

...If you count time, that goes right out the window, but I don't count my time when I go to a movie or go fishing, so it doesn't make any sense to count it while brewing.

I tend not to bill myself for hours spent doing things i love like eating, sleeping, fighting, f@cking, or brewing, so my time invested is not a factor in beer cost calculations...

Having not purchased commercial beer out of necessity since last october, I can say confidently that homebrewing has saved me a boatload of money and I'm swimming in delicious beer whenever the f@ck I feel like it. The equipment cost calculation itself is a separate matter IMHO, because for me it's a motorcycle or hotrod toy only much cheaper and it produces free beer whenever I take it out for a spin. Brewing beer from sacks of grain is my hobby; drinking the beer that results is just icing on the cake.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I save money buy washing yeast, growing my own hops, and filtering my own water. I've recently been moving into growing my own barley. These are a few of the DIY activities that save me money.

I was referred to a podcast series called growing beer. It was a guy in the UK that attempted to make beer with supplies that came only from a community garden allotment in one year. The rule was he could bring in tools and such, seeds and rhizomes, but everything else including the water had to come from the allotment. He said that the beer cost him something crazy like $50 a glass and he didn’t even include all the time and effort from the people who helped him for free that normally would have charged. Some of them were professionals, but because they wanted to help with the project they didn’t charge. Notably, one was a group of bio scientists that helped him collect identify and culture yeast as well as some craft maltsters that malted his grain.

 

[schematix]

$20000 in equipment and ingredients
820 gallons / 8750 bottles
--------------------------------
= $2.50 a bottle

Guess i better brew more to keep diluting those equipment costs.

 

[TimmyWit]

Bassboat=$20,000
Elec BIAB=$350

Ur math suxx.

Nah, your figures and rationale suck

 

[govner1]

When did the basis for homebrewing become saving money?

I used to be an avid golfer--until back issues intervened. I can't ever remember saving ANY money golfing. So why should saving money be the defining metric in homebrewing? Are there other benefits to the process?

In most cases where I'm in a taproom trying to find something I would like, I keep thinking I'd rather have a pint of my own homebrew.

**********

There is an element of golf for some people which translates to brewing; there is a certain sort of pacing, tempo, release from everyday life, Zen, whatever you want to call it. In golf, to a large extent, you are in control of what happens. So, too, with brewing.

Brewing for brewing's sake is expressive, in that we're being creative, much like we can be as we wend our way around a golf course.

Brewing for saving money is instrumental, a very goal-oriented enterprise where process is only a means to an end. But brewing for expressive sake? It's the end in itself. A lot of brewers have indicated they just LIKE brewing. It's fun, it's creative, we take a bunch of disparate ingredients, wave our magic wand over them, and voila! A magical transformation is the result.

Saving money? Bah. It's nice that I do from batch to batch, but if time and money efficiency were the only goals, I'd get a part-time job to pay for my beer.

***********

In March I bought a Spike conical. I don't even want to say what I have into it, but it's more than most people would pay for a premium set of golf clubs.

But I see people spending $1000 or even $1500 on that set of golf clubs. So what's the difference between that, and my conical, if in both cases the expenditure makes the purchaser happy?

THIS^^^^Very well said!

 

[marjen]

Since I own a lot of shiny stuff, unitank, glycol chiller etc. Its going to be quite sometime before I am saving money brewing lol.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

It'll take a bit longer to break even if you take your time into account and the opportunity costs, that you could be doing something else. But this hobby saves money compared to others, like owning a boat or a horse, and I get beer at the end

I don't think people are brewing home brew in lieu of earning money. In other words, it's not time that would otherwise be spent earning money. In fact, for most there's a good chance they'd be spending money during that time. For example, I brew on Saturdays. If I weren't brewing, there's a good chance I'd be dropping $40 on a round of golf. Not only is there no opportunity cost to brewing, I'm actually saving money!

We need to drop this opportunity cost thing. Sure, people's time is worth money...but only if they'd be spending that time earning or saving money.

 

[bleme]

When did the basis for homebrewing become saving money?

There is an element of golf for some people which translates to brewing; there is a certain sort of pacing, tempo, release from everyday life, Zen, whatever you want to call it. In golf, to a large extent, you are in control of what happens. So, too, with brewing.

Brewing for brewing's sake is expressive, in that we're being creative, much like we can be as we wend our way around a golf course.

Brewing for saving money is instrumental, a very goal-oriented enterprise where process is only a means to an end. But brewing for expressive sake? It's the end in itself. A lot of brewers have indicated they just LIKE brewing. It's fun, it's creative, we take a bunch of disparate ingredients, wave our magic wand over them, and voila! A magical transformation is the result.

Saving money? Bah. It's nice that I do from batch to batch, but if time and money efficiency were the only goals, I'd get a part-time job to pay for my beer.

I agree with this for the most part but for some of us seeing how cheaply we can make ambrosia is part of the challenge and art unto itself.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

$20000 in equipment and ingredients
820 gallons / 8750 bottles
--------------------------------
= $2.50 a bottle

Guess i better brew more to keep diluting those equipment costs.

$20,000 dollars in equipment? How the hell do you do that? I feel like I'm pretty well set up and I've got about 1/20th of that invested and I feel like I'm pretty well set up and brewing some fantastic beer.

 

[Blazinlow86]

$20,000 dollars in equipment? How the hell do you do that? I feel like I'm pretty well set up and I've got about 1/20th of that invested and I feel like I'm pretty well set up and brewing some fantastic beer.

It happens quickly. I've only been brewing about 2 years and am at 10g by now. And your correct fantastic beer can be made with 100$ worth of equipment. Similar to a 1000$ car drives to the same places a 500000$ car does. Cheers

 

[lump42]

I don't think people are brewing home brew in lieu of earning money. In other words, it's not time that would otherwise be spent earning money. In fact, for most there's a good chance they'd be spending money during that time. For example, I brew on Saturdays. If I weren't brewing, there's a good chance I'd be dropping $40 on a round of golf. Not only is there no opportunity cost to brewing, I'm actually saving money!

We need to drop this opportunity cost thing. Sure, people's time is worth money...but only if they'd be spending that time earning or saving money.

You're missing the idea of opportunity costs from the standpoint of a household. There's always an opportunity cost. Most people may be doing other hobbies that cost money if they were not brewing, but the opportunity cost are not just direct monetary savings/ earnings as if we'd all have second,third, etc jobs or hobbies that generated revenue (they exist). It also takes into account other tasks not being carried out, such as spending time with family, deferred house/ vehicle maintenance, missed sleep from squeezing a brew day in early or late in the day, etc.

I'd also argue that just because you may not but a price tag on your non-career time, that your free time isn't valuable. I personally cherish my free time much more than my time at the office. When I do side work for people, especially if they are not family or friends, I'm usually charging 3x times my salary amount because that's missed time I could be doing something I want.

Ultimately, I doubt most people on this forum would still be active brewers if they're only goal was to save money. My main point is if people are going through the trouble of depreciating their equipment over time to justify their brewing expenditures, then they should take the total cost into account. The only time I ever add up how much a batch costs is if I'm splitting the batch with a friend.

 

[brewcat]

It'll take a bit longer to break even if you take your time into account and the opportunity costs, that you could be doing something else. But this hobby saves money compared to others, like owning a boat or a horse, and I get beer at the end

What else would I want to be doing? I'm not sure I'm missing out brewing early morning on a day off. I guess I could be sleeping in... While brewing I also can clean the house, feed animals, work the garden, etc.

 

[bleme]

The only time I ever add up how much a batch costs is if I'm splitting the batch with a friend.

Funny that you mention this as I created the spreadsheet that tracks my costs because I was brewing with a friend. In the beginning, he bought the equipment, and I bought the ingredients until the spreadsheet balanced out, then we just started splitting ingredient costs.

 

[aprichman]

It happens quickly. I've only been brewing about 2 years and am at 10g by now. And your correct fantastic beer can be made with 100$ worth of equipment. Similar to a 1000$ car drives to the same places a 500000$ car does. Cheers

What did you get for $20,000? I'm having a hard time imagining how you could spend that much in 2 years.

 

[Blazinlow86]

What did you get for $20,000? I'm having a hard time imagining how you could spend that much in 2 years.

The other poster was at 20g. I stopped keeping track at about 8g but have bought alot more stuff since then. As I said it adds up quickly. 25 gallon 3 vessel eherms using all new stainless kettles, pumps, control panel, 18 aeb corny kegs, 18 gal unitank, I bet I have 500$ worth of quick releases and Silicone hoses alone. I'm Canadian so everything is more expensive. And AGAIN to clarify beer can be made just as well with 100$ worth of equipment. Cheers

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

You're missing the idea of opportunity costs from the standpoint of a household. There's always an opportunity cost. Most people may be doing other hobbies that cost money if they were not brewing, but the opportunity cost are not just direct monetary savings/ earnings as if we'd all have second,third, etc jobs or hobbies that generated revenue (they exist). It also takes into account other tasks not being carried out, such as spending time with family, deferred house/ vehicle maintenance, missed sleep from squeezing a brew day in early or late in the day, etc.

I'd also argue that just because you may not but a price tag on your non-career time, that your free time isn't valuable. I personally cherish my free time much more than my time at the office. When I do side work for people, especially if they are not family or friends, I'm usually charging 3x times my salary amount because that's missed time I could be doing something I want.

Ultimately, I doubt most people on this forum would still be active brewers if they're only goal was to save money. My main point is if people are going through the trouble of depreciating their equipment over time to justify their brewing expenditures, then they should take the total cost into account. The only time I ever add up how much a batch costs is if I'm splitting the batch with a friend.

I cherish my free time as well. Why? So I have time to brew! Seriously, I brew about 10 times a year and I spend way too much time watching TV. Realistically, the cost is probably a mix of saved money not golfing and saved wear and tear on my TV. My kids are grown and out of the house. I brewed in the early 90's and quit when kids came on the scene. Even with my brewing, I probably get far more quality time with my kids than most.

 

[schematix]

$20,000 dollars in equipment? How the hell do you do that? I feel like I'm pretty well set up and I've got about 1/20th of that invested and I feel like I'm pretty well set up and brewing some fantastic beer.

No disrespect but i'm going to guess you and I may be at a different scale. I have a pretty nice rig, a large investment in measurement tools, and also significant storage capacity.

Been doing this for about 8 years. To the best of my recollection.....

3 blichmann kettles ~1400
2 blichmann boil coils, ~400
1 blichmann RIMS rocket ~300
control panel and misc electrical ~1100
stainless brew table ~300
stainless sink ~300
badass faucet for sink ~400
13 kegs ~700
CO2 tanks 5 and 20, ~200
1 O2 tank with regulator and wand ~200
2 14.5 cu ft chest freezers ~1000
Chest freezer controllers 250
Stout conical ~1200
Glycol chiller ~1100
Precision hydrometers ~150
Digital refract ~125
pH meter ~100
Beer gun ~100
Hydra IC ~150
Therminator Plate chiller ~200
March pumps ~400
MM3-Pro grain mill ~500


Then you have all the small stuff
Misc stainless fittings ~1000 (in use and extras, i have boxes full)
Misc hoses ~500
Misc keg fittings and spare parts ~200
Another pH meter i didn't like ~100


And i have tons of equipment i don't use any more...
Old hydrometer, hydrometer tube, auto-siphons, stainless racking cane, keg parts, bottling equipment, cooler mash tun, etc. I have enough leftovers to build an entire 'how-to-brew' style brewery. Almost 2.

Plug ingredients for 83 10 gallon batches...
Call it an average of 23 lbs per batch at $1.20/lb on average. ~2500
An average of 6 oz of hops per batch at $1.25/oz on average ~600
PBW, StarSan, Iodophor ~250
Salts, acids ~50
CO2 refills ~200

More stuff....
Optical refract ~50
Bottling buckets ~75
Airlocks 10
Keg lids with thermowells 175
Thermometers 75
Rotameter 100
Microscope and accessories 150
Serving fridge 500
Quad stir plate 100
2L erlenmeyer flasks 150
Spund valves 150

I can keep adding as i remember but this is over $16000 and i'm not done yet....

 

[shoengine]

No disrespect but i'm going to guess you and I may be at a different scale. I have a pretty nice rig, a large investment in measurement tools, and also significant storage capacity.

Been doing this for about 8 years. To the best of my recollection.....

3 blichmann kettles ~1400
2 blichmann boil coils, ~400
1 blichmann RIMS rocket ~300
control panel and misc electrical ~1100
stainless brew table ~300
stainless sink ~300
badass faucet for sink ~400
13 kegs ~700
CO2 tanks 5 and 20, ~200
1 O2 tank with regulator and wand ~200
2 14.5 cu ft chest freezers ~1000
Chest freezer controllers 250
Stout conical ~1200
Glycol chiller ~1100
Precision hydrometers ~150
Digital refract ~125
pH meter ~100
Beer gun ~100
Hydra IC ~150
Therminator Plate chiller ~200
March pumps ~400
MM3-Pro grain mill ~500


Then you have all the small stuff
Misc stainless fittings ~1000 (in use and extras, i have boxes full)
Misc hoses ~500
Misc keg fittings and spare parts ~200
Another pH meter i didn't like ~100


And i have tons of equipment i don't use any more...
Old hydrometer, hydrometer tube, auto-siphons, stainless racking cane, keg parts, bottling equipment, cooler mash tun, etc. I have enough leftovers to build an entire 'how-to-brew' style brewery. Almost 2.

Plug ingredients for 83 10 gallon batches...
Call it an average of 23 lbs per batch at $1.20/lb on average. ~2500
An average of 6 oz of hops per batch at $1.25/oz on average ~600
PBW, StarSan, Iodophor ~250
Salts, acids ~50
CO2 refills ~200

More stuff....
Optical refract ~50
Bottling buckets ~75
Airlocks 10
Keg lids with thermowells 175
Thermometers 75
Rotameter 100
Microscope and accessories 150
Serving fridge 500
Quad stir plate 100
2L erlenmeyer flasks 150
Spund valves 150

I can keep adding as i remember but this is over $16000 and i'm not done yet....

Badass faucet for the sink you say? Can i haz link?