Warm Fermented Lager Thread

[rtstrider]

Well Miraculix ... you were right to point that out ... My Vienna lager sux . I used repitched 34/70 on that one also . Got strong Ester , probably from stressed yeast ... 34/70 has been clean till that batch . Will be pitching fresh pack on next Lager.

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I've never had luck repitching 34/70 from dried state. I recently repitched WLP830 3 times with very good results. It got a tad sulfury on the 3rd pitch so it wouldn't be a bad idea to do say a helles, something else clean, then a nice German Pils. I'd highly recommend WLP830

 

[Dog House Brew]

Wish I liked 34/70, super easy yeast to work with. Glad I like S-189, just as easy to wok with. I will take 830 over any dry.

 

[rtstrider]

Wish I liked 34/70, super easy yeast to work with. Glad I like S-189, just as easy to wok with. I will take 830 over any dry.

The other Fermentis lager strains and Diamond are on my to do list this summer. Still have way too many liquid strains in the freezer bank that haven't been used yet lol

 

[Dog House Brew]

My all time favorite is 802. I do like strains that can handle the higher temps. Right now I can brew at ambient that runs high 50’s to low 60’s at my unheated shop. Ambient makes lagers easier. I only do 2 lager batches. 20g in spring and 20g in the fall. WF lagers have made it easier no doubt.

 

[rtstrider]

My all time favorite is 802. I do like strains that can handle the higher temps. Right now I can brew at ambient that runs high 50’s to low 60’s at my unheated shop. Ambient makes lagers easier. I only do 2 lager batches. 20g in spring and 20g in the fall. WF lagers have made it easier no doubt.

That's a very good strain! I'd be curious to see how it does warm under pressure!

 

[Dog House Brew]

That's a very good strain! I'd be curious to see how it does warm under pressure!

Me too!

 

[dmtaylor]

Not me!

 

[rtstrider]

Me too!

I think it would work very well with Yoopers Fizzy Yellow beer. WLP830 worked WAY too well with that recipe

 

[hilljack13]

@hilljack13 , have you considered putting your LBMB in a larger container of water and keeping your temps lower by using frozen bottles of water and rotating them out for a few days? I've done this with my 5 gallon bucket FVs with success.

I have a refrigerator I can use. My last few tests were put in there. I just wanted to try the warm method.

 

[sweetcell]

I've never had luck repitching 34/70 from dried state.

i've had great success repitching 34/70. for the past 3 years i've followed the same spring brew process: warm-ferment 3 x 5gal batches of pilsner/light blond lager using 34/70, then use the cakes for 2 x 5gal of doppelbock.

time to start planning my annual lager brews, come to think of it...

 

[sweetcell]

regarding my process: for a 5.5 gallons of 1.050-1.055 blond lager, i typically pitch two sachets of 34/70 (2 x 11g). is anyone pitching just one pack? i wonder if warm-fermented lagers can get by with a lower pitch rate, given the higher temps?

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

regarding my process: for a 5.5 gallons of 1.050-1.055 blond lager, i typically pitch two sachets of 34/70 (2 x 11g). is anyone pitching just one pack? i wonder if warm-fermented lagers can get by with a lower pitch rate, given the higher temps?

This is my first attempt and I only pitched one 14 days ago. I going to check the FG tomorrow.

 

[Miraculix]

regarding my process: for a 5.5 gallons of 1.050-1.055 blond lager, i typically pitch two sachets of 34/70 (2 x 11g). is anyone pitching just one pack? i wonder if warm-fermented lagers can get by with a lower pitch rate, given the higher temps?

You can usually go with ale pitch rates when fermented warm. But it certainly would not hurt to use two packs or even a starter.

 

[dmtaylor]

regarding my process: for a 5.5 gallons of 1.050-1.055 blond lager, i typically pitch two sachets of 34/70 (2 x 11g). is anyone pitching just one pack? i wonder if warm-fermented lagers can get by with a lower pitch rate, given the higher temps?

One pack is more than enough. Save a few bucks.

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

Tested my Vienna lager yesterday and kegged it today. FG 1.010. Hydrometer sample was clear, no real haze at all and tastes clean.

I’m real excited to condition it, but tastes great right now. I want to let it sit 30 days, but I will settle for 14. I’m going to carb while it is conditioning so it will be ready to go.

 

[Yesfan]

I’m real excited to condition it, but tastes great right now. I want to let it sit 30 days, but I will settle for 14. I’m going to carb while it is conditioning so it will be ready to go.

That's always been hard for me to do. I've had some beers taste great out of the gate, so once they are carbed up I can't wait to let it taste better. My Achilles' heal I guess....

 

[Shenanigans]

I brewed the below New Zealand pilsner about a week ago with WLP833, ended up with an OG of 1.055 instead of 1.052.
I made a 500ml starter and pitched it at room temperature in my 17oC basement.
It took off after about 12 hours.

All going to plan I will take a gravity sample tonight or tomorrow, dry hop on Thursday and keg it on Sunday.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Ok I've done a couple WF lagers in the past but I have just accepted a challenge and want to see what you all think and if anyone has experience with this strain.

The challenge - 5 weeks from now I need to have a keg of Mexican lager ready to enjoy. If you look at the calendar you can probably guess why.

My temp control fermenters are currently being filled with 2 other beers this weekend so here we are. I'm thinking I'll ferment in a corny with a spunding valve and I plan on pitching white labs Mexican lager yeast WLP940

Any suggestions for temp and pressure for this strain? Or any general advice for the style is appreciated.

 

[rtstrider]

Ok I've done a couple WF lagers in the past but I have just accepted a challenge and want to see what you all think and if anyone has experience with this strain.

The challenge - 5 weeks from now I need to have a keg of Mexican lager ready to enjoy. If you look at the calendar you can probably guess why.

My temp control fermenters are currently being filled with 2 other beers this weekend so here we are. I'm thinking I'll ferment in a corny with a spunding valve and I plan on pitching white labs Mexican lager yeast WLP940

Any suggestions for temp and pressure for this strain? Or any general advice for the style is appreciated.

I think homebrew4life fermented that strain warm under pressure and had positive results. Maybe try 1 bar around 60F?

 

[Miraculix]

Ok I've done a couple WF lagers in the past but I have just accepted a challenge and want to see what you all think and if anyone has experience with this strain.

The challenge - 5 weeks from now I need to have a keg of Mexican lager ready to enjoy. If you look at the calendar you can probably guess why.

My temp control fermenters are currently being filled with 2 other beers this weekend so here we are. I'm thinking I'll ferment in a corny with a spunding valve and I plan on pitching white labs Mexican lager yeast WLP940

Any suggestions for temp and pressure for this strain? Or any general advice for the style is appreciated.

Pressurised warm lagers are basically cold lagers. IF you want to go that warm rute, you would need to do it not under pressure. But under pressure is usually the cleaner variant, so choose the version which suits you most. You will loose some of the speeding up of the process due to the pressure though. At least this is what I have read here.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I was under the impression I could ferment a lager strain at 60 to 65f under 12 to 15 psi for a couple weeks then add finings and cold crash and have it ready to drink in a month from brew day?? Maybe I am mistaken.

 

[HM-2]

I was under the impression I could ferment a lager strain at 60 to 65f under 12 to 15 psi for a couple weeks then add finings and cold crash and have it ready to drink in a month from brew day?? Maybe I am mistaken.

For a low OG adjunct lager like that proposed you absolutely can. Should be perfectly attainable.

Fermenting using a lager strain at ale temperatures and with around a bar / 12psi pressure will net you a clear output in much less time.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

For a low OG adjunct lager like that proposed you absolutely can. Should be perfectly attainable.

Fermenting using a lager strain at ale temperatures and with around a bar / 12psi pressure will net you a clear output in much less time.

Ok thank you, this is what I was hoping to pull off. I have a room that I think will work good temperature wise, now I just gotta squeeze in a brewday...

 

[balrog]

now I just gotta squeeze in a brewday...

I think we need to make up some hats with that on it.

 

[Shenanigans]

I think we need to make up some hats with that on it.

I would buy the T-shirt version

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I second that.

 

[Yesfan]

........The challenge - 5 weeks from now I need to have a keg of Mexican lager ready to enjoy. If you look at the calendar you can probably guess why........

Mother's Day?


I brewed a Mexi-lager with Que Bueno once. That should be the same as the WLP940. My intent was to pressure ferment at 15psi at 65F (basement temps). I don't know if my All Rounder has a cracked lid or what, but I never could get it to seal that day and my fermentation temp was around 72F-74F at 0psi. The beer still turned out fine and I since bought a replacement lid. I've not brewed another batch in the All Rounder since then as I haven't had the time brew (despite buying new gear/ingredients ).

Now, I'm not suggesting to repeat what I did. Just saying that, maybe my experience will put your mind somewhat at ease should something go south.

 

[ncbrewer]

Mother's Day?

Cinco de Mayo

 

[DevilsCups]

Just brewed a Vienna-ish lager on Saturday and it's rocking now. 90% Weyermann Vienna, 10% Swaen Melany, 28 IBU with all Perle. Pitched Diamond and it's fermenting at 68ºF now under 15psi of pressure (from the start). Excited to see how this one turns out. Wort tasted excellent.

The SPUNDit is sounding like a machine gun.

 

[DevilsCups]

Sampled today. It's sitting at 1.016 from 1.053. Tastes lovely, but yeasty (of course). Closed up the spunding valve to 25psi, though I missed the boat for a decent natural carb by a few points.

 

[Genuine]

regarding my process: for a 5.5 gallons of 1.050-1.055 blond lager, i typically pitch two sachets of 34/70 (2 x 11g). is anyone pitching just one pack? i wonder if warm-fermented lagers can get by with a lower pitch rate, given the higher temps?

When I started making lagers a couple years ago, I didn't realize that people were pitching more yeast than 1 packet for a 5 gallon batch....and I haven't noticed any negative effects from pitching one packet.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I've been interested in this thread for a while but have never tried fermenting warm with lager yeast yet. I came across a recipe online that seems like it could be close to a Genesee Cream Ale, one of my long-time favorite beers. I think I remember reading somewhere that while they call it a cream ale Genesee ferments this beer with lager yeast. At any rate I think this might be a good recipe for my first warm lager attempt. My LHBS has switched from White Labs to Wyeast liquid, and mosty Cellar Science, (plus a handful of other brands) dry yeast. Looking at his stock my local choices would be WY2112, 2124, 2206, 2308 all liquid. Dry choices would include CS Berlin, German, and MJ M54. Any specific recommendations between those? If not, I can always order online for other options. But I'd rather support local unless there's a good reason to order online.

What say you?

 

[InspectorJon]

Fermentis 34/70 has a proven track record for doing well up to the upper 60s, some report good results into the low 70s. It is a favorite in this thread. Not everyone thinks its the best but there is wide consensus that it is good. Cellar Science German is reported to be the same thing.

 

[beervoid]

Fermentis 34/70 has a proven track record for doing well up to the upper 60s, some report good results into the low 70s. It is a favorite in this thread. Not everyone thinks its the best but there is wide consensus that it is good. Cellar Science German is reported to be the same thing.

Both Diamond and 34/70 worked good for me, honestly couldnt tell much difference between those and novalager.

 

[Miraculix]

I've been interested in this thread for a while but have never tried fermenting warm with lager yeast yet. I came across a recipe online that seems like it could be close to a Genesee Cream Ale, one of my long-time favorite beers. I think I remember reading somewhere that while they call it a cream ale Genesee ferments this beer with lager yeast. At any rate I think this might be a good recipe for my first warm lager attempt. My LHBS has switched from White Labs to Wyeast liquid, and mosty Cellar Science, (plus a handful of other brands) dry yeast. Looking at his stock my local choices would be WY2112, 2124, 2206, 2308 all liquid. Dry choices would include CS Berlin, German, and MJ M54. Any specific recommendations between those? If not, I can always order online for other options. But I'd rather support local unless there's a good reason to order online.

What say you?

My best warm lager was with imperial yeast harvest. The second best was wlp800 followed by 3470. 3470 is a really solid yeast but it shines in very hop forward styles, especially American ones, if you ask me. Harvest shines everywhere where hop flavour is not important, it really focuses on the grains and mutes the hops. Think of Augustiner Helles, that's the yeast that can do this type of beer. So in your case, my first choice would be harvest, but the other two options would give you great beers as well.

 

[DuncB]

Sampled today. It's sitting at 1.016 from 1.053. Tastes lovely, but yeasty (of course). Closed up the spunding valve to 25psi, though I missed the boat for a decent natural carb by a few points.

You might not have done

 

[tracer bullet]

I've been reading and watching this thread for a while, but never quite figured out what folks are hoping to achieve. Is it just that it's OK to warm ferment a lager yeast and not have terrible beer, making the process easier? Or is it that the beer tastes better in any way?

If the latter is it a stronger or weaker flavor, as far as say esters go? I've been tinkering with a Negra Modelo inspired recipe and trying different yeasts in it. Just had a real one last night and loved it. I'd guess the closest match would be a "Mexican" lager yeast i.e. WLP 940 and fermented cold, but wondering if I should be getting onto this warm train?

 

[dmtaylor]

I've been reading and watching this thread for a while, but never quite figured out what folks are hoping to achieve. Is it just that it's OK to warm ferment a lager yeast and not have terrible beer, making the process easier? Or is it that the beer tastes better in any way?

If the latter is it a stronger or weaker flavor, as far as say esters go? I've been tinkering with a Negra Modelo inspired recipe and trying different yeasts in it. Just had a real one last night and loved it. I'd guess the closest match would be a "Mexican" lager yeast i.e. WLP 940 and fermented cold, but wondering if I should be getting onto this warm train?

Grain to glass is a LOT faster, and just as delicious. No dorking around, just git 'er done!

 

[InspectorJon]

Is it just that it's OK to warm ferment a lager yeast and not have terrible beer, making the process easier?

As @dmtaylor said, it is faster, which seems to have been a primary objective for the OP. Another reason is that some folks don't have the ability to achieve the typical low temperature for a traditional lager. Fermenting warmer also allows one to use less yeast. Pitch at ale rate vs. traditional lager rate.

There are lots of traditionalists that think this is all foolishness and that the "correct" flavor is sacrificed. Certainly many lager yeasts do not work well with this method and those that do are being used "off label". With some very clean flavored (no flavor) yeast there is likely little or not flavor difference. Others do produce a difference at warmer temperatures. Flavor, better or worse, is very subjective.

It would take a pretty complicated experiment to do a truly subjective comparison between the same beer fermented as a traditional lager and a warm fermented one. One would have to come up with a process that eliminated any other variables other than time and temperature. And that in itself is two variables.

 

[beervoid]

As @dmtaylor said, it is faster, which seems to have been a primary objective for the OP. Another reason is that some folks don't have the ability to achieve the typical low temperature for a traditional lager. Fermenting warmer also allows one to use less yeast. Pitch at ale rate vs. traditional lager rate.

There are lots of traditionalists that think this is all foolishness and that the "correct" flavor is sacrificed. Certainly many lager yeasts do not work well with this method and those that do are being used "off label". With some very clean flavored (no flavor) yeast there is likely little or not flavor difference. Others do produce a difference at warmer temperatures. Flavor, better or worse, is very subjective.

It would take a pretty complicated experiment to do a truly subjective comparison between the same beer fermented as a traditional lager and a warm fermented one. One would have to come up with a process that eliminated any other variables other than time and temperature. And that in itself is two variables.

In my experience it might ferment out faster but it still needs at least a good week or more to become clear and start tasting in spec.