Pressure-Fermented Lager: Necessary to Pitch Cold?

[Clint Yeastwood]

I just put a bucket of lager in the pool. For reference, closest style I could find is Helles. Sort of like an IPA, except I use lager yeast and ferment it like a lager.

I am going to ferment under pressure at a high temperature.

Here is the disturbing thing: after seeing so much talk about higher temperatures, I am now seeing claims that you still need to pitch at low temperature. So you warm-lager guys, tell me: do I really need to be down in the fifties? The only way I can get there with my weather and equipment is to use a freezer and wait until tomorrow to pitch.

 

[Red over White]

I prefer to pitch at 58-60 and keep it cool and let it build pressure natively. After you hit high kräusen or build over 15 psi you can let the temp wander above 65 without a problem.

 

[NSMikeD]

I believe if you are fermenting under pressure you can start lager yeast at ale temps (mid to upper 60's) and still suppress the esters. At least that is MoreBeers claim when selling fermentors that are pressure safe. Also cut back on the pitch rate. I suspect the folks that pitch at colder temps are taking an extra step to keep the esters from forming and using pressure to shorten the lagering time frame.

I think in your case you can brew a very good lager with little unwanted esters. I would bet the pressure lager brewers who pitch at 50° already had fermentation chambers . I know I did it simply because I could and why not take the extra step, like wearing belt and suspenders.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I appreciate the help.

I just had an idea. Sometimes this is actually good news.

I am seeing stuff indicating that two things suppress esters: high pressure and low temperature. Usually, when you ferment under pressure, there is no pressure to begin with, because the yeast hasn't done anything. I think. So people must be pitching at low temperature to compensate. I should be able to pitch and then pump up the fermenter. If high pressure really suppresses esters, then I should be fine.

Or maybe there is more to it, and I haven't read enough.

It feels crazy to me to suppress esters. Ordinarily, they're the only thing that makes beer worthwhile for me.

 

[Knkbrand]

edited to be more specific:

I always do a liquid yeast starter at room temp on a stir plate, then I pitch at room temp, and then add CO2 to 10psi to my pressure fermentation vessle, and let it go. never gets below 68 degrees, and for me it tastes fine.

 

[NSMikeD]

I appreciate the help.

I just had an idea. Sometimes this is actually good news.

I am seeing stuff indicating that two things suppress esters: high pressure and low temperature. Usually, when you ferment under pressure, there is no pressure to begin with, because the yeast hasn't done anything. I think. So people must be pitching at low temperature to compensate. I should be able to pitch and then pump up the fermenter. If high pressure really suppresses esters, then I should be fine.

Or maybe there is more to it, and I haven't read enough.

It feels crazy to me to suppress esters. Ordinarily, they're the only thing that makes beer worthwhile for me.

esters are a style thing. Generally, they are loved in ales and detested in lagers. So we try to dial in their production and type. This is the great thing about home brewing. I cant tell you how many brews I messed up and then loved the final results even if I missed the mark. Isn't that the most important thing at the end of day, that we liked it?

I have toyed with your idea of pumping in some pressure to start with. It does make sense. On. the other hand, the high O2 volume initially in the wort is supposed to suppress ester production, Alcohol level is also a factor, low ABV less esters, high ABV more esters.

Given that brewers smarter than me believe you can pitch at higher temp and let pressure build up when making lagers and you seem not to be ester adverse, I think the way to go is pitch and lock and let nature do her thing. It's the only way you will find out of you like the beer that is made this way. Once you have the ability to control temps, you can then try the chill method and see if it makes a difference and/or if you prefer it.

I really don't think you'll brew something that isn't truly enjoyable with an initial room temp pitch.

RDWHHB

 

[Red over White]

esters are a style thing. Generally, they are loved in ales and detested in lagers. So we try to dial in their production and type. This is the great thing about home brewing. I cant tell you how many brews I messed up and then loved the final results even if I missed the mark. Isn't that the most important thing at the end of day, that we liked it?

I have toyed with your idea of pumping in some pressure to start with. It does make sense. On. the other hand, the high O2 volume initially in the wort is supposed to suppress ester production, Alcohol level is also a factor, low ABV less esters, high ABV more esters.

Given that brewers smarter than me believe you can pitch at higher temp and let pressure build up when making lagers and you seem not to be ester adverse, I think the way to go is pitch and lock and let nature do her thing. It's the only way you will find out of you like the beer that is made this way. Once you have the ability to control temps, you can then try the chill method and see if it makes a difference and/or if you prefer it.

I really don't think you'll brew something that isn't truly enjoyable with an initial room temp pitch.

RDWHHB

I have found sprinkling in dry yeast and immediately applying pressure is detrimental to much needed yeast growth. It can cause long lags and result in under pitching that can cause issues. At warmer temperatures it's kind of a wort stability test. I like to see low kräusen in under 12 hours and 8-10+ points chewed in the first 24 hours and let the yeast quickly drop the beer pH. Everyone has their own way, but side by side tests has proven this on my gear. Pressure fermented lagers are so wonderful and mature so effortlessly there is no way I could go back to a still ferment.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I ended up leaving the beer in the pool longer than expected for technical reasons, so it was at around 68° when I pitched. We had a cool night, and I left the fermenter outside, so it's at 61° now.

The All Rounder wasn't sealing all that well. When you attach the steel handles, you're supposed to leave them loose because they can distort the mouth of the jug, causing the O-ring to let gas by. I loosened the handles when I pumped the gas in, but the pressure was gone this morning. I loosened and retightened the lid and shot more gas in. It seems to be working, but I won't know until the end of the day. Based on the post above, maybe I should release the gas and put it back in tomorrow.

If this works, I might invest in a stainless pressure fermenter. I have decided buckets are best for most of what I do, but I can see how an occasional pressure fermentation could be helpful.

The All Rounder seems like a good invention, but they tell you to replace the jug every two years, and if you do that, you end up spending a lot more than the cost of a stainless fermenter.

 

[beersk]

Just be sure to pitch enough healthy yeast. I've had issues with pressure fermentation trapping in sulfur. Oh man do I NOT like that.

And your last point about replacing the All Rounder every couple years because it doesn't hold a good lasting seal is a major major negative of those fermenters. Why would anyone buy that knowing that's the case?

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Well, you should be able to keep one forever if you don't use pressure. But I think buying it was a bad idea.

 

[DuncB]

My pressure fermented lager method is opshaug kveik pitched at 30 degrees celsius. Put the spunding valve on and set it to 15 psi.
Towards the end of ferment bump the temperature up a couple of degrees and let the pressure rise to 30 psi.
Once finished ferment cold crash, drop yeast and add finings then closed transfer.

Can't see the point of adding CO2 your yeast will make more than enough.

 

[DuncB]

I've been using my fermentasaurus under pressure for five years now. Keeps a good seal.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

The purpose is to discourage off-flavor production that supposedly happens before pressure builds up naturally. Whether this actually happens, I can't say.

 

[DuncB]

The purpose is to discourage off-flavor production that supposedly happens before pressure builds up naturally. Whether this actually happens, I can't say.

It's been super clean with the build up with ferment gas, early phase of yeast growth is reproduction and only once ferment gets going are the off flavours mostly produced. I do oxygenate well and use extra nutrients with the kveik lager method.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I acknowledge the fact that I have no idea what I'm doing here.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

Fyi, you don't need to replace the All Rounder every two years. You just have to test it every two years. Chances are it'll last much longer than that.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

This morning, the gauge was pinned, so I let gas out and took the beer down to about 12 psi. Fat layer of krausen. I thought Fermcap in the fermenter was supposed to minimize that.

I don't know how I'm supposed to take gravity readings when beer is carbonated. I can't heat it. I guess I can shake it.

 

[dwightr8]

I ended up leaving the beer in the pool longer than expected for technical reasons, so it was at around 68° when I pitched. We had a cool night, and I left the fermenter outside, so it's at 61° now.

The All Rounder wasn't sealing all that well. When you attach the steel handles, you're supposed to leave them loose because they can distort the mouth of the jug, causing the O-ring to let gas by. I loosened the handles when I pumped the gas in, but the pressure was gone this morning. I loosened and retightened the lid and shot more gas in. It seems to be working, but I won't know until the end of the day. Based on the post above, maybe I should release the gas and put it back in tomorrow.

If this works, I might invest in a stainless pressure fermenter. I have decided buckets are best for most of what I do, but I can see how an occasional pressure fermentation could be helpful.

The All Rounder seems like a good invention, but they tell you to replace the jug every two years, and if you do that, you end up spending a lot more than the cost of a stainless fermenter.

Do you have any Corny kegs? If so, you already have stainless steel fermenters.