Make IPA Clear Again

[shoreman]

But not that much "brighter" than the original neipa

I had a Heady up in VT a few weeks ago, canned 3 days before I got it. It was interesting to drink that beer recently- it had a really firm bitterness and malt profile that I hadn’t experienced in a while. “IPA” has been so redefined in just the past 4-5 years that this beer now seems like an outlier, even though it is the OG.

 

[Nagorg]

“IPA” has been so redefined in just the past 4-5 years

...Not really redefined exactly... There's just a lot of fakers out there trying to make folks think that's the case. Label my NEIPA as "IPA" and eventually the beer sheep will believe its supposed to look and taste like OJ.

 

[Nagorg]

But not that much "brighter" than the original neipa

View attachment 737906

Cheers!

I'd LOVE to try that beer. And I honestly dont consider that to be too hazy. That I can believe to be from a large Dry-Hop and perhaps a touch of chill haze.

Thats a far cry from the completely murky OJ looking beers I typically see...

 

[shoreman]

...Not really redefined exactly... There's just a lot of fakers out there trying to make folks think that's the case. Label my NEIPA as "IPA" and eventually the beer sheep will believe its supposed to look and taste like OJ.

it’s already happened- order a “Pale Ale” from a local brewery in New England at a bar or restaurant and 9 times out 10 that will be a hazy beer. Same with IPA, it’s unfortunate, but that’s where we are.

It would be ideal for Brewers to add NEIPA or NEPA or Hazy to their name but not always the case.

 

[Nagorg]

Pretty sure it hasnt been redefined. There are new categories for the haziboi's. But mislabeling continues to confuse the folks that dont know better.

 

[The_CuRe]

Just a few weeks ago, here at Mexico City, I saw in the menu a local pale ale with azacca, I ordered it and got back a god damn hazy bomb, I was pissed as ****.

 

[beersk]

Just a few weeks ago, here at Mexico City, I saw in the menu a local pale ale with azacca, I ordered it and got back a god damn hazy bomb, I was pissed as ****.

But that's what the Chilangos want, compa!!! Te estoy tomando el pelo. I'd be mad too, man. The mislabeling is something that grinds my gears greatly about hazy IPAs. PUT IT ON THE LABEL. It's not hard. Some of us don't want hazy/juicy IPAs.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

F yes!

 

[day_trippr]

Well that is just wrong. There is no BJCP "Chunky Style"

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Well that is just wrong. There is no BJCP "Chunky Style"

Not yet...

 

[ba-brewer]

I get two of those with every keg.

 

[Nagorg]

Thats just nast...

 

[Mitt Hefty]

Howdy, new here but not to beer drinking or making. I found this place Googling this very subject and probably have little to add to over the past few years of this discussion. I will say that I find everything about the muck unappealing. My reactionary response is to think it's a style created to eliminate a few steps at the brewery, but that's probably not the case. I've never been a huge fan of IPA's but appreciate the good ones. My wife unsuspectingly bought some of the sludge the other day and I had to rinse the palate with a Bell's Two Hearted Double IPA.

The trajectory of beer since I started brewing back in the 90's has been weird. The IPA and all it's hybrid variants in particular. For reference my favorite go-to store beer is Spaten Optimator, so I favor the malt over the hop for the most part. I miss walking into a brew pub and finding a Bitter with a nitro push, or a porter or a stout that isn't tainted with cookies and cream and pop tarts.

I have no objection to the hazy IPA, if that is your thing c'est la vie. I just wish I didn't have to look at a wall of the stuff while looking for a more traditionally brewed beer, IPA or otherwise.

 

[NewJersey]

I thought of this thread last weekend, while I was at a lil brewery with my family.
They had a good WEST COAST IPA and, believe it or not, they also had a really nice English IPA. I hadn't seen that style at a brewery..... Well, I've never seen that style at a brewery. It was well made and an excellent case for the idea that more isn't always better.

 

[Beermeister32]

The mislabeling is something that grinds my gears greatly about hazy IPAs. PUT IT ON THE LABEL. It's not hard. Some of us don't want hazy/juicy IPAs.

This is the kind of thing that ends up producing a different style category.

 

[McKnuckle]

I thought of this thread last weekend, while I was at a lil brewery with my family.
They had a good WEST COAST IPA and, believe it or not, they also had a really nice English IPA. I hadn't seen that style at a brewery..... Well, I've never seen that style at a brewery. It was well made and an excellent case for the idea that more isn't always better.

Do you mind mentioning the brewery? We're almost neighbors; I'm a few miles north of you off Rtes 287 & 208. Thanks!

 

[NewJersey]

Do you mind mentioning the brewery? We're almost neighbors; I'm a few miles north of you off Rtes 287 & 208. Thanks!

Bull N Bear right on Springfield Ave in Summit.

 

[Protos]

What a discussion! I read all of this. In my opinion, the main subject is not about beer. It's about "fashion snobbery" dictate, that have long been plaguing every other aisle of "artisanal business" and now plagues the craft beer industry as well. It's about craft brewers' preference to cater not to the broader base of their customers, but to a tiny (but extremely vocal) niche of hipsters, because the hype is the easiest way to cut costs on advertising.
Hazy Hoppy Ales just happened to be the banner of that change. It could be any other style, with which to employ the new advertising tactic.

That's why I (having nothing against hazy hoppy ales and somethimes brewing them myself for the change of pace, though preferring classic clear English and American IPAs) am strongly against the changing attitude in the business, which goes against what the craft beer movement have been all about for decades... So, list me in the "haters" club. And it's not hazy beers that I hate. MIPACA!

Yes, they will call the style "India Pale Ale" whatever we say here. It's a very well-working "generic trademark", after all. Unless, of course, some day they deem the mention of India politically incorrect and racially offensive, which well could happen in the near future. Then the style might be renamed.

 

[Brooothru]

What a discussion! I read all of this. In my opinion, the main subject is not about beer. It's about "fashion snobbery" dictate, that have long been plaguing every other aisle of "artisanal business" and now plagues the craft beer industry as well. It's about craft brewers' preference to cater not to the broader base of their customers, but to a tiny (but extremely vocal) niche of hipsters, because the hype is the easiest way to cut costs on advertising.
Hazy Hoppy Ales just happened to be the banner of that change. It could be any other style, with which to employ the new advertising tactic.

That's why I (having nothing against hazy hoppy ales and somethimes brewing them myself for the change of pace, though preferring classic clear English and American IPAs) am strongly against the changing attitude in the business, which goes against what the craft beer movement have been all about for decades... So, list me in the "haters" club. And it's not hazy beers that I hate. MIPACA!

Yes, they will call the style "India Pale Ale" whatever we say here. It's a very well-working "generic trademark", after all. Unless, of course, some day they deem the mention of India politically incorrect and racially offensive, which well could happen in the near future. Then the style might be renamed.

Very well stated. Wish I could upvote more than just once.

 

[InspectorJon]

I think the issue is really more about labeling than style. BMC drinkers hated Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. The style has endured. There are a LOT of people that like the hazy, heavily dry hopped "IPAs".

"It's about craft brewers' preference to cater not to the broader base of their customers, but to a tiny (but extremely vocal) niche of hipsters, because the hype is the easiest way to cut costs on advertising."

This is a very narrow view of business and the reality of the market place. I think New Englan Pale Ale would be a better lable or perhaps simply Hazy but there are litterally millions of customers that want to buy this style, not just some crazy hipsters. There are still a lot of BMC drinkers and other Craft Beer drinkers that don't like some styles, that does not make those styles bad. It may be to late to change labeling... Personally I have never tasted a sour I really liked. That does not make it bad.

 

[Protos]

OK. Not hipsters. But why then we have the Mighty Triade: Hazy Hopbomb, Fruit Sour and Pastry Stout (all cult styles with the hipsters) in each and every taproom, more often than not at the expense of more traditional and more widely appealing styles? Is it because the wast majority of craft beer consumers strongly prefer those novelties? Not at all. It's because of a new marketing strategy aimed exclusively at attracting new generation as the future consumer base. Attracting by all means, even despite alienating some loyal existing consumers. Things should be going really desperate in that department if they must try so hard.
It's not because of hipsters. Or because of beer styles. It's because of a new marketing model. And it is not a good model as it greatly narrows the choise and offers what's "trendy" and what have a good chance to be mass advertised for free in social media instead of what's good.

Thankfully, for us homebrewers that's not a problem: it's we ourselves who make the choise and define the "marketing strategies" in our cellars and closets.

 

[Nagorg]

FWIW, I purposefully avoid all hazies and any beer that uses the keywords like juicy etc... Every once in a blue moon (not that Coors Blue Moon.. lol) I'll try something because I get suckered into the hype. Toppling Goliath King Sue was the latest disappointment and I was suckered into their Pompeii because it simply said "India Pale Ale"..

I'll admit that there have been a few that weren't bad; they had great aroma, flavor and enough bitterness that I thought okay this could work even though its murkfest.. But these have been exception edge cases.

Drinke'm if you want. Brew'em if you want. I really dont care that the beers exist; just drop "IPA" from the name... This madness has to stop. I know it probably wont, too much cash is being made. But I'm beyond worn out from all of it.

 

[Snuffy]

“Get off my lawn, ya crazy kids! And take that cloudy grapefruit piss with ya!”

“Back in my day, if ya wanted a REAL IPA, ya had ta sign on as a cabin boy and pitch slop buckets and peel potatoes all the way ‘round the horn before they’d letcha slurp on the rags they used to wipe up spills in the captain’s mess”.

 

[Brooothru]

“Get off my lawn, ya crazy kids! And take that cloudy grapefruit piss with ya!”

“Back in my day, if ya wanted a REAL IPA, ya had ta sign on as a cabin boy and pitch slop buckets and peel potatoes all the way ‘round the horn before they’d letcha slurp on the rags they used to wipe up spills in the captain’s mess”.

Reminds me of my Midshipman days of a bygone era, one of the "Rocks and Shoals" Navy of long ago. The times of Iron Men and Wooden ships, rather than the other way 'round.

 

[Protos]

pitch slop buckets and peel potatoes

...and those cabin boys deemed unworthy to slurp on the REAL IPA rag even after rounding the horn, had to make their own "IPA", fermenting potato peels and pitching slops into the buckets.

That's how some innovative artisanal modern cloudy trendy styles were born

 

[Twinkeelfool]

It’s like just about any other food or beverage industry, and fashion. Something new comes out, people jump on board. Then it becomes the norm, so someone comes up with the next new thing. Some people will stick with it, some won’t. It’s just beer

 

[Snark_Wolf_Brewing]

Reminds me of my Midshipman days of a bygone era, one of the "Rocks and Shoals" Navy of long ago. The times of Iron Men and Wooden ships, rather than the other way 'round.

And Frogmen were real Frogmen...

 

[davidabcd]

food or beverage industry

And health supplements too--not that it's not covered under "food" but I see so much of that regarding what you're saying.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

FWIW, I purposefully avoid all hazies and any beer that uses the keywords like juicy etc... Every once in a blue moon (not that Coors Blue Moon.. lol) I'll try something because I get suckered into the hype. Toppling Goliath King Sue was the latest disappointment and I was suckered into their Pompeii because it simply said "India Pale Ale"..

I'll admit that there have been a few that weren't bad; they had great aroma, flavor and enough bitterness that I thought okay this could work even though its murkfest.. But these have been exception edge cases.

Drinke'm if you want. Brew'em if you want. I really dont care that the beers exist; just drop "IPA" from the name... This madness has to stop. I know it probably wont, too much cash is being made. But I'm beyond worn out from all of it.

It sounds like you're just really picky. What kind of IPA do you like? The old school really malty ones? If that's what you want don't buy a tall boy can with fancy graphics that says IPA, because it without question won't be one of those kind even if it doesn't explicitly state hazy or juicy. The breweries are selling what sells, and hazy/juicy IPAs are really, really popular. Almost too popular, because now every brewery has to have one on tap and alot of times they suck.

I love a west coast IPA too, and occasionally one of the old school kind heavy on the malt flavor. I guess I'm lucky that almost any IPA type will appeal to me.

BTW any IPA from TG is probably going to be of the new age variety, softer/juicier/hoppier, unless the can explicitly says west coast IPA or something.

 

[couchsending]

King Sue might be the best expression of Citra hops in a Double IPA that you can find on a store shelf anywhere in the world. They make some of the most shelf stable hoppy beer that is the true expression of the hops, not the yeast.

Pompeii is also a very good expression of Mosaic. There is no yeast interference in those beers.

I just think you don’t know what good hops actually taste like.

 

[hopfenstopfen]

King Sue might be the best expression of Citra hops in a Double IPA that you can find on a store shelf anywhere in the world. They make some of the most shelf stable hoppy beer that is the true expression of the hops, not the yeast.

Pompeii is also a very good expression of Mosaic. There is no yeast interference in those beers.

I just think you don’t know what good hops actually taste like.

Drinking a Pompeii at the moment & its spectacular!
TG is always lights out on expression of citra & mosaic.

 

[Nagorg]

They all look and taste like fruit juice to me. Y'all can have them.

I wish they'd all consistently use the buzz words I've learned to avoid. "Juicy", "Tropical" and sadly "Double Dry Hopped" are good indicators for "no-buy". But when they dont list these things and just say "IPA" then I'm likely to fall for it and be dissapointed. Every once in a while I actually get a non-hazy jewel labeled IPA.

Frankly I wish breweries would not associate double dry hopping with the glasses of orange juice that pours out of these things. They may double dry hop their fruit juice but double dry hopping a beer does not produce OJ.

 

[Beerstein]

I agree.

I’ve spent all summer brewing hazy’s. They are pretty conducive to low carb brewing as they hide a bit of the thinness. I’m tired of them.

I want my IBU’s back.

 

[Miraculix]

View attachment 738239
F yes!

I like myself a good ol' chunky after a hard day's work.

 

[Brooothru]

Frankly I wish breweries would not associate double dry hopping with the glasses of orange juice that pours out of these things. They may double dry hop their fruit juice but double dry hopping a beer does not produce OJ.

Especially considering that Pliny the Elder is "double dry hopped". Still consider it to be the quintessential American IPA, even though hipsters dismiss it as "dated." I like to try new things as much as anybody, but disparaging the crown jewel out-of-hand just because it's been around for more than three weeks is both hypocritical and disingenuous.

I get it. Tastes change and favorites evolve. But quality remains steadfast. The first time I had PtE it blew me away, and I felt that for once the hype actually lived up to the reality. Same with the original New Belgium Ranger. I like some of the "new and (?) improved" NB Ranger series, especially Voodoo Ranger, but wish they still made the original rather than discard it when they chose to chase popular trends.

 

[bwible]

They all look and taste like fruit juice to me. Y'all can have them.

I wish they'd all consistently use the buzz words I've learned to avoid. "Juicy", "Tropical" and sadly "Double Dry Hopped" are good indicators for "no-buy". But when they dont list these things and just say "IPA" then I'm likely to fall for it and be dissapointed. Every once in a while I actually get a non-hazy jewel labeled IPA.

Frankly I wish breweries would not associate double dry hopping with the glasses of orange juice that pours out of these things. They may double dry hop their fruit juice but double dry hopping a beer does not produce OJ.

Lagunitas IPA and Hop Stoopid are about the only ones I buy anymore.

 

[Beermeister32]

Orange juice is cheaper, maybe they’d be happy starting out with OJ rather than malt and hops.

 

[davidabcd]

Orange juice

OJ + Vodka

 

[bwible]

OJ + Vodka

Looks about the same in the glass too

 

[bwible]