Lallemand Verdant IPA Ale

[Miraculix]

anybody has some taste input for different pitching temps? I have used this yeast now 2 times pitching at 20C and it always came out awesome, but I'm wondering if I can get more fruityness out of it starting fermentation at 16-17C

Usually lower temperature means lower yeast expression. But there are a few exceptions.

 

[Immocles]

Disclaimer: I brewed this beer two weeks ago and it’s been in the bottle for the last one.

Having said that, this yeast may be the best dry English yeast I’ve used. Out of S-04, Lallemand ESB, Windsor, and Verdant; Verdant has been the clear winner so far. In my mild, the malt is there but so is the typical English fruitiness that I just adore in beers such as Samuel Smith Nut Brown.

So it is safe to say this yeast is for much more than just hazies.

View attachment 739727

Excellent looking beer. I love that color!

I had originally decided that this summer was going to be my yeast experimental summer, but I fell behind and then go overwhelmed with too many hop varieties sent as gifts. I still have a packet of this yeast sitting in my fridge on the back burner and I'm hoping to hell I can sneak it in ( an ipa and a heavier hopped blonde) before I go into lager mode in the middle of the fall. This thread makes me feel excited about it!

 

[Bramling Cross]

Any thoughts on how to get Verdant to drop clear within the timeframe of other UK yeast?

I've had my first batch with Verdant (Otter, Invert #2, and 8oz of torrified wheat) in the keg at 34F for nine days. Going into the floating dip tube equipped keg it was quite murky despite being solidly at TG for nearly a week. I hit it with Biofine the following day once the keg had stabilized at 34F. No effect. Three days later I hit it hard with gelatin. Again, no effect. I'm confident in my fining techniques, they have a track record of success against some very stubborn flocculators. There's zero evidence of infection in the flavor profile and there's no shortage of calcium. I guess Verdant is extra special stubborn?

Aside from the turbid beer, I'm stoked about this batch. After years of 1968 (now Imperial Pub) and 1469 being my UK workhorses, it's exciting to have a new tool that delivers the goods--and in a dry form factor, not less! Unfortunately, this failure to quickly drop clear characteristic has tamped down my enthusiasm considerably.

I appreciate your time.

 

[ebbelwoi]

I've had success with Silafine at about 1ml/liter, but it's taken about a week to work with Verdant.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I've had my first batch with Verdant (Otter, Invert #2, and 8oz of torrified wheat)

Given that it's derived from 1318 which is the yeast of choice for hazy beers, it may be doing something special with protein-polyphenol interactions? How hoppy are you? What vintage of Otter is it - 2020 ended up being fairly high in protein.

Knock out the wheat next time?

 

[Bramling Cross]

Given that it's derived from 1318 which is the yeast of choice for hazy beers, it may be doing something special with protein-polyphenol interactions? How hoppy are you? What vintage of Otter is it - 2020 ended up being fairly high in protein.

Knock out the wheat next time?

I've had success with Silafine at about 1ml/liter, but it's taken about a week to work with Verdant.

Thank you, both, for taking the time.

Thanks for jogging my mind about a jug of silica-based clarifier that I have on the shelf, ebbelwoi. I'll whack it with that tonight for giggles.

Northern_Brewer, it's a simple best bitter recipe that has a track record for dropping clear with 1968/Pub/1469. Although I'm phasing out my use of torrified wheat in UK beers, I'm confident that neither the wheat, nor the hopping schedule are the issue. This thing isn't a bit cloudy, it's straight up turbid.

Thanks for the heads up on the 2020 crop of Otter. This batch actually cashed out my 55lb sack of Otter (purchased in November, 2020). I had been toying with the idea of trying to track down some Optic--which is sadly becoming impossible to find in the States. More likely, I'll give Golden Promise another spin. Based upon your observation, I'll definitely take a pass on Otter.

Thanks, again, for your time. It's appreciated.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'm confident that neither the wheat, nor the hopping schedule are the issue.

You can only say that if you've compared :
Verdant + wheat
Verdant + no wheat

If Verdant is particularly sensitive to protein levels, then the wheat could be an issue - with Verdant but not other yeasts.

Thanks for the heads up on the 2020 crop of Otter...Based upon your observation, I'll definitely take a pass on Otter.

Just to be clear, that was not a comment about Otter, but about the 2020 harvest in general, it was universally high in protein regardless of variety (although spring barleys were marginally lower than winter barleys like Otter). The average was something like 1.8% nitrogen, compared to usual beer malting spec of 1.6-1.75. Whereas 2021 has gone the other way with generally low proteins - good for malting, not good for bread wheat.

 

[Miraculix]

I had verdant drop clear in three to four weeks at room temperature. My bet would be also on proteins/polyphenols causing the issues.

As a side note, verdant seems to stick to the bottom of the bottle fairly well.

 

[user 263363]

I had verdant drop clear in three to four weeks at room temperature. My bet would be also on proteins/polyphenols causing the issues.

As a side note, verdant seems to stick to the bottom of the bottle fairly well.

I had the same experience with my dark mild. I can even say that I had minimal chill haze after bottle conditioning.

 

[Bramling Cross]

You can only say that if you've compared :
Verdant + wheat
Verdant + no wheat

If Verdant is particularly sensitive to protein levels, then the wheat could be an issue - with Verdant but not other yeasts.



Just to be clear, that was not a comment about Otter, but about the 2020 harvest in general, it was universally high in protein regardless of variety (although spring barleys were marginally lower than winter barleys like Otter). The average was something like 1.8% nitrogen, compared to usual beer malting spec of 1.6-1.75. Whereas 2021 has gone the other way with generally low proteins - good for malting, not good for bread wheat.

Ahhhhhhhh. Okay, I see what you mean about the wheat now. I hadn't considered that perspective at all, thanks for patiently drilling it into my abnormally thick skull. I'll run straight UK malt and invert on the third pitch and see what happens.

I appreciate your time (and patience).

 

[Elric]

This was my verdant best bitter that has 7% torrified wheat in it. Dropped very clear. Currently have another batch of it bubbling away in the fermenter behind me now

 

[bwible]

A week into trying a spitfire clone with this yeast. Like some others have commented I still have a good inch of great looking krausen floating around on it. Definitely the longest I have had one stick around for. Started bringing the temp up a bit today for a diacetyl rest and plan to keg it on Wednesday. Can't wait to see how it tastes

When I used Wy1332 Northwest Ale yeast that one develops a krausen that lasts quite a while too. If I recall, that one was also cultured from an English strain. Maybe some similarities?

 

[ThenFalcon]

This was my verdant best bitter that has 7% torrified wheat in it. Dropped very clear. Currently have another batch of it bubbling away in the fermenter behind me now

Looks like a good one. Can you share the recipe?

 

[Elric]

Looks like a good one. Can you share the recipe?

55% maris otter
21% pale ale
13% crystal 70
7% torrified wheat
4% amber
aim for around 4.2% abv with grain bill.
mash for 90 minutes @ 152
60 minute boil
20ibu target at 60 min
4ibu challenger at 15 min
1ibu ekg at 5 min.
ferment around 68f with verdant. Enjoy! The batch I'm currently fermenting I aim to spice up a bit with a dry hop of bramling cross If I can punch the hops through that mountain of krausen

 

[BongoYodeler]

55% maris otter
21% pale ale
13% crystal 70
7% torrified wheat
4% amber
aim for around 4.2% abv with grain bill.
mash for 90 minutes @ 152
60 minute boil
20ibu target at 60 min
4ibu challenger at 15 min
1ibu ekg at 5 min.
ferment around 68f with verdant. Enjoy! The batch I'm currently fermenting I aim to spice up a bit with a dry hop of bramling cross If I can punch the hops through that mountain of krausen

Looks delicious.

 

[Elric]

Looks delicious.

I really like it!

 

[shoreman]

How many generations have you gone with this yeast and any changes in flavor?

 

[bwible]

Says this yeast has a 12% alcohol tolerance. I wonder how it would be in a barleywine

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Says this yeast has a 12% alcohol tolerance. I wonder how it would be in a barleywine

Suspect alcohol tolerance and other styles probably got covered at some point in the long video interview Lallemand did with James Heffron of Verdant, can't remember offhand though.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

If anyone wants to compare, Verdant are doing a Fuggles/Golding best bitter, their first cask beer :

 

[rtstrider]

I'll be trying this yeast (rehydrated) tomorrow. Have two packs right over two years old. They've been stored in the fridge for mostly the entire time. I was going to use Imperial Barbarian from the freezer stash but it appears to be shot. I reached out to a local brewery/LHBS and asked their experiences with Verdant. They said "OHHHH that's a good one! Ferment between 68F and 72F. We just used that on a NEIPA and it sold really well!" I built this NEIPA using percentages and such from Cade Jobe on a Brulosophy podcast awhile back. I have some old Mosaic in the freezer so that's why I'm using that first wort. The rest of the Mosaic was ordered 2 weeks ago. The hop combos/schedules were pulled from this site

https://cryopopblend.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Survivable-Compounds-Handbook.pdf
Anywho here's the recipe I'm working with

Title: Wedding Hazy IPA

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Specialty IPA: New England IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.048
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 1

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.061
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 6.38%
IBU (tinseth): 59.66
SRM (morey): 3.96
Mash pH: 5.89

FERMENTABLES:
4 lb - Brewers Malt 2-Row (30%)
4 lb - BEST Heidelberg (30%)
2 lb - Flaked Oats (15%)
2 lb - Flaked Wheat (15%)
1.33 lb - Carapils Malt (10%)

HOPS:
0.25 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: First Wort, IBU: 12.09
1 oz - Idaho 7, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.1, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 9.89
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 10
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 8.77
1 oz - Idaho 7, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.1, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 6.53
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 6.6
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 5.79
1 oz - Sabro, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
1 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
1 oz - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Strike, Temp: 154 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 5 gal
2) Fly Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Amount: 4.28 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

YEAST:
Lallemand - Verdant IPA

 

[wepeeler]

I'll be trying this yeast (rehydrated) tomorrow. Have two packs right over two years old. They've been stored in the fridge for mostly the entire time. I was going to use Imperial Barbarian from the freezer stash but it appears to be shot. I reached out to a local brewery/LHBS and asked their experiences with Verdant. They said "OHHHH that's a good one! Ferment between 68F and 72F. We just used that on a NEIPA and it sold really well!" I built this NEIPA using percentages and such from Cade Jobe on a Brulosophy podcast awhile back. I have some old Mosaic in the freezer so that's why I'm using that first wort. The rest of the Mosaic was ordered 2 weeks ago. The hop combos/schedules were pulled from this site

https://cryopopblend.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Survivable-Compounds-Handbook.pdf
Anywho here's the recipe I'm working with

Title: Wedding Hazy IPA

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Specialty IPA: New England IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.048
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 1

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.061
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 6.38%
IBU (tinseth): 59.66
SRM (morey): 3.96
Mash pH: 5.89

FERMENTABLES:
4 lb - Brewers Malt 2-Row (30%)
4 lb - BEST Heidelberg (30%)
2 lb - Flaked Oats (15%)
2 lb - Flaked Wheat (15%)
1.33 lb - Carapils Malt (10%)

HOPS:
0.25 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: First Wort, IBU: 12.09
1 oz - Idaho 7, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.1, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 9.89
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 10
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 8.77
1 oz - Idaho 7, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.1, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 6.53
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 6.6
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 5.79
1 oz - Sabro, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
1 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
1 oz - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Strike, Temp: 154 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 5 gal
2) Fly Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Amount: 4.28 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

YEAST:
Lallemand - Verdant IPA

It'll be interesting to see if your beer stays hazy. Mine did not. Wasn't brilliantly clear by any means, but it was not what I call hazy for a neipa after about a week in the keg. No finings, just whirlfloc in the boil

 

[Benson Brewhouse]

It'll be interesting to see if your beer stays hazy. Mine did not. Wasn't brilliantly clear by any means, but it was not what I call hazy for a neipa after about a week in the keg. No finings, just whirlfloc in the boil

I almost exclusively use Verdant in my NEIPAs and they stay hazy for as long as they last in the keg (typically 4-8 weeks).

 

[Benson Brewhouse]

I'll be trying this yeast (rehydrated) tomorrow. Have two packs right over two years old. They've been stored in the fridge for mostly the entire time. I was going to use Imperial Barbarian from the freezer stash but it appears to be shot. I reached out to a local brewery/LHBS and asked their experiences with Verdant. They said "OHHHH that's a good one! Ferment between 68F and 72F. We just used that on a NEIPA and it sold really well!" I built this NEIPA using percentages and such from Cade Jobe on a Brulosophy podcast awhile back. I have some old Mosaic in the freezer so that's why I'm using that first wort. The rest of the Mosaic was ordered 2 weeks ago. The hop combos/schedules were pulled from this site

https://cryopopblend.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Survivable-Compounds-Handbook.pdf
Anywho here's the recipe I'm working with

Title: Wedding Hazy IPA

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Specialty IPA: New England IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.048
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 1

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.061
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 6.38%
IBU (tinseth): 59.66
SRM (morey): 3.96
Mash pH: 5.89

FERMENTABLES:
4 lb - Brewers Malt 2-Row (30%)
4 lb - BEST Heidelberg (30%)
2 lb - Flaked Oats (15%)
2 lb - Flaked Wheat (15%)
1.33 lb - Carapils Malt (10%)

HOPS:
0.25 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: First Wort, IBU: 12.09
1 oz - Idaho 7, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.1, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 9.89
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 10
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 8.77
1 oz - Idaho 7, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.1, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 6.53
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 6.6
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 5.79
1 oz - Sabro, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
1 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
1 oz - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Strike, Temp: 154 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 5 gal
2) Fly Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Amount: 4.28 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

YEAST:
Lallemand - Verdant IPA

Verdant Brewing recommends fermenting a bit more on the cooler side for this yeast. I typically ferment Verdant around 64° and then ramp to 72° when I'm about 5 points away from terminal. Phenomenal results every time

 

[Spundit]

It'll be interesting to see if your beer stays hazy. Mine did not. Wasn't brilliantly clear by any means, but it was not what I call hazy for a neipa after about a week in the keg. No finings, just whirlfloc in the boil

Mine stayed hazy. I thought the yeast compared well to London Ale III which is my usual yeast for this recipe.


This picture is 4 weeks in the keg

 

[wepeeler]

I almost exclusively use Verdant in my NEIPAs and they stay hazy for as long as they last in the keg (typically 4-8 weeks).

Mine stayed hazy. I thought the yeast compared well to London Ale III which is my usual yeast for this recipe.


This picture is 4 weeks in the keg
View attachment 773657

Seems like you both had a great experience with it. I didn't change anything with my grain or hops, and the only time I used Verdant the beer cleared up within a week in the keg. Bummer...I like the ease of dry yeast.

 

[rtstrider]

Verdant Brewing recommends fermenting a bit more on the cooler side for this yeast. I typically ferment Verdant around 64° and then ramp to 72° when I'm about 5 points away from terminal. Phenomenal results every time

64 it is! Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Benson Brewhouse]

This is a Verdant beer after about 7 weeks in the keg.

 

[Miraculix]

To not scare all the "normal" beer folks away, let me assure you all that verdant drops perfectly clear after two to three weeks in a "normal" wort that is intended to result in clear beer.

 

[rtstrider]

So I split the difference and am fermenting at 66f. The nose on this neipa is awesome! Going to go against the grain here and not use biotransformation hops. Only because there will be 9oz of hops in the batch after dry Hop already. This needs to be carbd and ready in the keg at the end of the month. Will be dry hopping in the bucket fermenter with 3 oz hops in a paint strainer bag weighted down with sanitized marbles. Going to let that sit 5 days then rack this into a keg with campden to keep down the oxidation. Really curious to see/taste the final product!