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Lallemand Verdant IPA Ale

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duelerx

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Seems this yeast is alredy available in the UK, some claim this to be the dried version of Wyeast London Ale III 1318/Imperial Juice:


If someone in the UK has a chance with this yeast give us a review comparing with 1318?.
 

Franktalk

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I followed the link, but the yeast you are writing about is not there.
 

Northern_Brewer

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Official line from Lallemand in response to being asked if it's London Ale III :
"It is a strain isolated from what was originally a 3 strain culture. Not a million miles away in profile that kind of yeast but distinct from. "

The "distinct from" is very important from a legal POV, but in theory a single DNA substitution would make it a distinct yeast... Interesting that they're hiding behind Verdant from a marketing POV though.

But AIUI a version of 1318 was the next yeast due in the pipeline. Covid may have messed with that, but probably not. Verdant got their first trial packs in April

Although Water Into Beer have already advertised 11g packs, my understanding is that we're still a couple of weeks away from retail packs entering the supply chain, at least on a mainstream basis.
 
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duelerx

duelerx

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I followed the link, but the yeast you are writing about is not there.
I apologize this was available in limited quantities and seems they are out of stock now.
 

Northern_Brewer

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Another one that was too quick off the mark...
 

Northern_Brewer

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I haven't got any inside track on pricing, but on the basis that it's an "easy" yeast from a processing POV but it will attract a bit of a "cool" premium, I'd expect it to be priced in line with their Voss - so Nottingham/Windsor +20% ??????
 

braindead

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They just released the recipe Even Sharks Need Water

Ingredients Included
Crisp Extra Pale (Lager) Malt (3300 grams)
Simpsons Finest Pale Ale Golden Promise®™ (800 grams)
Flaked Oats Including Husk (900 grams)
Weyermann® Carapils® (450 grams)
Crisp Pale Wheat Malt (220 grams)
Flaked Wheat (220 grams)
Magnum Pellets (3 grams)
Galaxy™ Pellets (150 grams)
Citra Pellets (240 grams)
LALBREW® VERDANT IPA Dried Yeast 11g (Not included)

Method
Beer Style (main): American Ales
Beer Style (sub): Juicy or Hazy India Pale Ale
Batch Size: 19L
Original Gravity: 1.065
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV %: 6.5%
IBU: 7.3

THE MASH
Temperature °C: 67c
Length (mins): 45mins
Out temp °C:
Out time (mins):


THE BOIL
Boil time (mins): 60

Additions and timing:

3g Magnum (12% AA) @ First Wort Hops

Yeast-Vit @ 15minutes (not included)

80degree 30 min whirlpool/hopstand = 30g Galaxy & 60g Citra

Secondary additions and timing:

Post ferment dry hop = 120g Galaxy T90’s & 180g Citra T90’s (16gpl dry hop)

Dry hop rouse and crash to zero. Keep hop contact time to less than 72 hours if possible.

Yeast: Lallemand Verdant IPA (not included)
Fermentation temperature/steps: pitch at 18 and let rise to 19 and hold. Free rise to 22 for D rest once gravity is at about 1.030. The dry yeast version rages! Expect a massive krausen and potentially higher than anticipated attenuation on generation 1.
 

braindead

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With regards to a suitable water profile for ESNW I would encourage home brewers to experiment. Get a good accurate water report for your area specifically focussing on ppm’s for Calcium, Chloride, Magnesium, Sodium, Sulphate and Bicarbonate. Down in Cornwall we have predominantly soft water ranging from ‘moderately soft’ to ‘very soft’. This basically means ppm’s for all the cations and anions are very low, it also means we have a great base line water source for building style profiles. I know some brewers who utilise reverse osmosis techniques to almost entirely demineralise their water, but I like the fact that all we do is run it through a sediment filter and then a carbon filter. This removes any rust or debris from old mains water pipes and also the volatile low level chlorine used to kill bacteria. Working with the water in your area, in my opinion, is one of the most exciting parts of brewing that’s similar to the concept of ‘terroir’ in farming. With sharks we push Chloride up to around 230ppm, we leave Sulphate at base mains level (10ppm), we elevate Sodium to around 50ppm. The Sodium Chloride is added to the boil and the Calcium Chloride to the mash. By doing this we create a very soft mouthfeel but without elevating Calcium levels above 100ppm. You don’t need to try and emulate this profile though, in fact I would suggest not too if your base line is too far off initially. It’s far more important to work with what you’ve got and tweak from there.

Other tips for success with a NEIPA would be to monitor you PH’s. Mash should be 5.2-5.3 at 20 degrees C. Pre-boil 5-5.1, post boil 4.9-5.05, sparge 5.5-6, post ferment 4.3, post dry hop 4.5-4.8. Oxygen will ruin your beer faster than anything else. Trying to mitigate this at home-brew level is going to be tricky. I would suggest closed transfer under pressure to separate purged vessel for dry hopping, force carbonating and not bottle conditioning. Do not hunt for biotransformation, wait for the ferment to finish, make sure it passes a forced diacetyl test, soft crash to 15 and then dry hop. You will avoid hop creep this way. Hop creep is something we don’t like at Verdant, it makes for an over attenuated beer that that has far more diacetyl to clear up.
 
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duelerx

duelerx

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There is an upcoming webinar from Lallemand and focused on the introduction of LalBrew Verdant IPA.

Edit:

New details about this strain:

In Lallemand‘s standard wort, LalBrew® Verdant IPA exhibits fermentation which can be completed within 5 days at 20°C with a recommended pitch rate of 50-100g per hL of wort, which is sufficient to achieve a minimum of 2.5-5 million viable cells/mL.

– Medium to high attenuation (72-82%)
– Moderate to high flocculation
– Optimal temperature: 18 to 23°C

Prominent notes of apricot and undertones of tropical fruit and citrus merge seamlessly with hop aromas in this highly versatile strain. With medium-high attenuation, LalBrew® Verdant IPA leaves a soft and balanced malt profile with slightly more body than a typical American IPA yeast strain.

Typical flavor descriptors:

– Most notably Apricot
– Slight peach but not as prominent
– Some sweeter notes such as Vanilla, creamy
 
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crusader1612

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There is an upcoming webinar from Lallemand and focused on the introduction of LalBrew Verdant IPA.

Edit:

New details about this strain:

In Lallemand‘s standard wort, LalBrew® Verdant IPA exhibits fermentation which can be completed within 5 days at 20°C with a recommended pitch rate of 50-100g per hL of wort, which is sufficient to achieve a minimum of 2.5-5 million viable cells/mL.

– Medium to high attenuation (72-82%)
– Moderate to high flocculation
– Optimal temperature: 18 to 23°C

Prominent notes of apricot and undertones of tropical fruit and citrus merge seamlessly with hop aromas in this highly versatile strain. With medium-high attenuation, LalBrew® Verdant IPA leaves a soft and balanced malt profile with slightly more body than a typical American IPA yeast strain.

Typical flavor descriptors:

– Most notably Apricot
– Slight peach but not as prominent
– Some sweeter notes such as Vanilla, creamy
Looks like it's on their website now, which is nice.
Looking forward to it being available in the southern hemisphere.
 

braindead

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Ive got a beer fermenting with this yeast for the Verdant competition.
The esters coming off the fermenter are insane and I've not even dry hopped yet.
Ill keep you updated on the results
 

crusader1612

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Ive got a beer fermenting with this yeast for the Verdant competition.
The esters coming off the fermenter are insane and I've not even dry hopped yet.
Ill keep you updated on the results
Please do.

I've been told it'll be availabe in NZ in a few weeks, which will be great.

what style are you going with? West coast? East coast?
 
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duelerx

duelerx

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Here is the link of the presentation of Verdant IPA yeast:

 

SteveLupoMax

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With regards to a suitable water profile for ESNW I would encourage home brewers to experiment. Get a good accurate water report for your area specifically focussing on ppm’s for Calcium, Chloride, Magnesium, Sodium, Sulphate and Bicarbonate. Down in Cornwall we have predominantly soft water ranging from ‘moderately soft’ to ‘very soft’. This basically means ppm’s for all the cations and anions are very low, it also means we have a great base line water source for building style profiles. I know some brewers who utilise reverse osmosis techniques to almost entirely demineralise their water, but I like the fact that all we do is run it through a sediment filter and then a carbon filter. This removes any rust or debris from old mains water pipes and also the volatile low level chlorine used to kill bacteria. Working with the water in your area, in my opinion, is one of the most exciting parts of brewing that’s similar to the concept of ‘terroir’ in farming. With sharks we push Chloride up to around 230ppm, we leave Sulphate at base mains level (10ppm), we elevate Sodium to around 50ppm. The Sodium Chloride is added to the boil and the Calcium Chloride to the mash. By doing this we create a very soft mouthfeel but without elevating Calcium levels above 100ppm. You don’t need to try and emulate this profile though, in fact I would suggest not too if your base line is too far off initially. It’s far more important to work with what you’ve got and tweak from there.

Other tips for success with a NEIPA would be to monitor you PH’s. Mash should be 5.2-5.3 at 20 degrees C. Pre-boil 5-5.1, post boil 4.9-5.05, sparge 5.5-6, post ferment 4.3, post dry hop 4.5-4.8. Oxygen will ruin your beer faster than anything else. Trying to mitigate this at home-brew level is going to be tricky. I would suggest closed transfer under pressure to separate purged vessel for dry hopping, force carbonating and not bottle conditioning. Do not hunt for biotransformation, wait for the ferment to finish, make sure it passes a forced diacetyl test, soft crash to 15 and then dry hop. You will avoid hop creep this way. Hop creep is something we don’t like at Verdant, it makes for an over attenuated beer that that has far more diacetyl to clear up.
Is this coming from a writing Verdant published?
 

Gnomebrewer

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Any updates on this one? In particular, for those who've used both, how does it compare to WY1318?
 

Lincs

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Any updates on this one? In particular, for those who've used both, how does it compare to WY1318?
Used this to ferment a Scottish 60 Shilling beer I brewed a few weeks ago. The brew had an OG of 1.035 with around 18 - 20 IBU's and fermented down to 1.009 after 4 days with the beer being packaged into small Corny kegs plus a few bottles after just seven days. I'd bought a few 11g packs to store in the fridge and because I'm reluctant to trust the viability of any new yeast I made a 2 litre starter from a small quantity of re-hydrated yeast, this was calculated to replicate a pitching rate of 0.5 - 0.7g / L for a 33L brew.
The starter was really going well after 12 hours and was pitched into the FV at 18C rising to 23C after 48 hours. My temperature control is very basic so after reaching terminal gravity left it an extra day before cooling down as best I could to 15C. The beer was fermented in an open FV and after 6 days there was still quite a yeast crust on top which I skimmed off before replacing the lid, what really surprised me when packaging was how very clear the beer was, showing excellent flocculation at just 15C. The finished beer pH was 4.12 ( down from 5.25 @ pitching ) which is about average for my beers. A small amount of sugar priming's were added as I don't like my beers to be heavily carbonated. So how did the beer taste and compare with other yeasts? I've brewed the 60/- a few times before using Nottingham, S04 and Y1728 ( Scottish ) and thought that this brew compared favourably with the other two dried strains with a fuller body and I think a better defined malt character. The Y1728 also performed well although I fermented it around 18 - 20C in attempt to get a few more esters in the finished beer. So in summary I'm well pleased with the initial result and will pitch re-hydrated dried yeast directly ( with confidence! ) into future brews at around 0.5 - 0.7g / L as most of my brews are around 3.5 - 4.5% a/b/v. I should add that although I haven't used Y1318 for this style before, I've used it successfully for other brews and at one stage kept it on refrigerated slants for several months producing decent results. The Verdant IPA seems to have similar characteristics, ferments without problems, flocculates well whilst it could be easily top-cropped for re-pitching and seems to leave a relatively full flavour in the finished beer compared to some other dried yeasts.
 

thehaze

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I will be using it soon, as it seems the yeast will behave a lot like LAIII, and although different, as the head brewer from Verdant stated, it will somewhat be in the same ballpark. I currently have a small Pale Bitter fermenting: 70% Pilsner + 30% Imperial malt - around 5% and 35 IBUs - Hopped with german grown Comet hops ( should be fruitier than the dank US one - terroir ), with 2/3 LalBrew East Coast and 1/3 Verdant yeast ( due to miscalculations from my part ). The airlock smelled and still smells like an IPA. So I am eager to package and try it out as soon as possible.
 

peterj

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Here is the link of the presentation of Verdant IPA yeast:

I found this quick summary of the Q and A you posted in this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/i0v6jd .

Basically the guy from Verdant said they started with 1318 in their early days and repitched it a ton of times before having it banked and isolating the dominant strain from what had become a multistrain culture. By that time the yeast had mutated slightly, and Verdant was down with Lallemand developing it for mass production. And I'm sure Lallemand was more than down with getting their hands on a legally distinct version of 1318.

I ordered 2 packs from Label Peelers that are on their way, and I can't wait to brew something with them. I used to use 1318 extensively years ago (before I had kids, when I had the time to make starters and not plan brew days months in advance), but now I've switched to all dry yeast. I've been trying different yeast combos basically looking for something comparable to 1318. So I'm pretty excited about this!
 

ronniescouten

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yeast slayed our DIPA. 1.078 to 1.016 (currently) in about 4 days. harvested some yeast this morning and going to dry hop and condition for another week. i'll send photos when the beer is complete
 

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yeast slayed our DIPA. 1.078 to 1.016 (currently) in about 4 days. harvested some yeast this morning and going to dry hop and condition for another week. i'll send photos when the beer is complete
what temp did you ferment at? encounter any diacetyl? using verdant's suggested temperature schedule i got to fg in a similar amount of time, but am now on day 9 and diacetyl isn't quite finished cleaning up
 

ronniescouten

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what temp did you ferment at? encounter any diacetyl? using verdant's suggested temperature schedule i got to fg in a similar amount of time, but am now on day 9 and diacetyl isn't quite finished cleaning up
i started at 66 for 2 days and then raised it to 68 at the end of the second day, and then up to 70 on the 3rd day. thats where it is right now. i pulled and dry hopped today and i'll let it ferment at that temp for 2-3 days to avoid hop creep and then probably soft crash to about 55-60 by about friday so i can pull off some trub. thats when i'll take a taste and see how its going diacetyl-wise. if its butter-y, i'll probably let it rest at 60 for a couple days before crashing and carbing in the unitank
 

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what temp did you ferment at? encounter any diacetyl? using verdant's suggested temperature schedule i got to fg in a similar amount of time, but am now on day 9 and diacetyl isn't quite finished cleaning up
How much did you pitch and what where your fermentation temps?
 

woof

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How much did you pitch and what where your fermentation temps?
half pack for a 2.5 gal batch at 1.054 og. i used the temps suggested in the sharks need water recipe:
Fermentation temperature/steps: pitch at 18 and let rise to 19 and hold. Free rise to 22 for D rest once gravity is at about 1.030. The dry yeast version rages! Expect a massive krausen and potentially higher than anticipated attenuation on generation 1.
 

woof

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How do you test for diacetyl?
And did you dry hop already?
just a normal forced diacetyl test. pulled sample gets a 150ºF water bath for 15 minutes. fwiw, i've done two tests so far, one at day 6 and one at 8. there was definitely a significant reduction, so i'm confident it will clean up shortly.

no, i'm waiting for it to pass the diacetyl test. will then soft crash before dry hopping.
 

aaronm13

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Used it last week for the first time in my attempt at Even Sharks Need Water. I just sprinkled one pack into the wort (1.068 and 24L/6 gallons) so could get a nice under pitch. 24 hours after pitching there was still no activity so kinda panicked and re-hydrated a second pack and added that. Took off like a rocket and was pretty much at terminal after 3 days. Sort crashing now (day 8) for adding the first dry hop. Probably well over pitched it with having to add the second pack but at least it finished out. London Fog is my house strain for NEIPAs so will be interested to see how it compares.
 

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The Craft Beer Channel have made a couple of videos using it for their version of a Neipa. Somewhat biased perhaps but nevertheless they are happy with it.
 

crusader1612

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They just released the recipe Even Sharks Need Water

Ingredients Included
Crisp Extra Pale (Lager) Malt (3300 grams)
Simpsons Finest Pale Ale Golden Promise®™ (800 grams)
Flaked Oats Including Husk (900 grams)
Weyermann® Carapils® (450 grams)
Crisp Pale Wheat Malt (220 grams)
Flaked Wheat (220 grams)
Magnum Pellets (3 grams)
Galaxy™ Pellets (150 grams)
Citra Pellets (240 grams)
LALBREW® VERDANT IPA Dried Yeast 11g (Not included)

Method
Beer Style (main): American Ales
Beer Style (sub): Juicy or Hazy India Pale Ale
Batch Size: 19L
Original Gravity: 1.065
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV %: 6.5%
IBU: 7.3

THE MASH
Temperature °C: 67c
Length (mins): 45mins
Out temp °C:
Out time (mins):


THE BOIL
Boil time (mins): 60

Additions and timing:

3g Magnum (12% AA) @ First Wort Hops

Yeast-Vit @ 15minutes (not included)

80degree 30 min whirlpool/hopstand = 30g Galaxy & 60g Citra

Secondary additions and timing:

Post ferment dry hop = 120g Galaxy T90’s & 180g Citra T90’s (16gpl dry hop)

Dry hop rouse and crash to zero. Keep hop contact time to less than 72 hours if possible.

Yeast: Lallemand Verdant IPA (not included)
Fermentation temperature/steps: pitch at 18 and let rise to 19 and hold. Free rise to 22 for D rest once gravity is at about 1.030. The dry yeast version rages! Expect a massive krausen and potentially higher than anticipated attenuation on generation 1.

anyone done this one??
I've been reading that verdant have Simcoe in their hopping as well?! My thoughts are to do this:
----------
3g Simcoe (12% AA) @ First Wort Hops

Yeast-Vit @ 15minutes (not included)

80degree 30 min whirlpool/hopstand = 30g Galaxy & 30g citra & 60g simcoe

Secondary additions and timing:

Post ferment dry hop = 120g Galaxy & 170g Citra
----------
 

tbaldwin000

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anyone done this one??
I've been reading that verdant have Simcoe in their hopping as well?! My thoughts are to do this:
----------
3g Simcoe (12% AA) @ First Wort Hops

Yeast-Vit @ 15minutes (not included)

80degree 30 min whirlpool/hopstand = 30g Galaxy & 30g citra & 60g simcoe

Secondary additions and timing:

Post ferment dry hop = 120g Galaxy & 170g Citra
----------
They don't have any Simcoe in Sharks, it was just a label typo that has proliferated around the net.
 

thehaze

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The combination of Pilsner with Imperial malt and the yeast gives of an intense stone fruit aroma - dried/ripe apricots - combined with a dark fruity note from the malt. At only 30% , Imperial malt is definitely intense.

Next on my list ( in a month or so ) are a couple of hoppy beers, which will be fermented with Verdant yeast: a DH Pale Ale with Motueka, Mistral and El Dorado hops and an IPA with Motueka, Nectaron, Southern Cross and Taiheke.
 

SanPancho

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The combination of Pilsner with Imperial malt and the yeast gives of an intense stone fruit aroma - dried/ripe apricots - combined with a dark fruity note from the malt. At only 30% , Imperial malt is definitely intense.

Next on my list ( in a month or so ) are a couple of hoppy beers, which will be fermented with Verdant yeast: a DH Pale Ale with Motueka, Mistral and El Dorado hops and an IPA with Motueka, Nectaron, Southern Cross and Taiheke.
Whats the imperial like? Description is weird, 15-19L but maintain enzymatic activity? Having trouble imagining that one.
 

thehaze

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Whats the imperial like? Description is weird, 15-19L but maintain enzymatic activity? Having trouble imagining that one.
This are some descriptors directly from Simpsons:

"Beer Styles: Light Ales, Brown Ales, Porter and Stout
Malt Flavour: Biscuit Dry Sweetness (Honey/Plums), Bread Crust
Usage: Up to 20% in Light Ales to enhance flavour, Up to 50% in Brown Ales & Porters, Up to 80% in Dark Beers & Stouts "

I haven't experienced a huge drop in extraction when using it ( there will be some ). It will certainly not provide the same enzymatic activity as a light kilned base malt. I've only used it in a Pastry Milk Stout and the amber Bitter mentioned above. For me, it adds some of that sweet ( overripe, but somewhat fresh smelling, exciting flavour ) cherry, maybe plums, sweetness, yes, but not a lot of dates/raisins, etc. It does complement english yeast and certainly a dark grist with roasted malts. And I wasn't shy using it: 30% in my latest bitter and 35% in the Stout. I will keep using it. I feel that, for my taste, porters, stouts and any pale/red english beers will benefit from it. If you would like to use it, maybe go less than 30% for your first try. 80% Maris Otter and 20% Imperial might result in a delicious table/small english pale.
 

beervoid

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Used it last week for the first time in my attempt at Even Sharks Need Water. I just sprinkled one pack into the wort (1.068 and 24L/6 gallons) so could get a nice under pitch. 24 hours after pitching there was still no activity so kinda panicked and re-hydrated a second pack and added that. Took off like a rocket and was pretty much at terminal after 3 days. Sort crashing now (day 8) for adding the first dry hop. Probably well over pitched it with having to add the second pack but at least it finished out. London Fog is my house strain for NEIPAs so will be interested to see how it compares.
What was your attenuation?
 
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