English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Northern_Brewer]

The First Gold doesn't work, I discussed it earlier either here or elsewhere, but of course we don't all know everything everyone's posted. First Gold is somewhat unobtainable now. My LHBS is Northern Brewer or Midwest, and they've stopepd carrying it. Last time I tried it I got... rye flavors, possibly raw wheat flour. I didn't like it at all but the hops were questionable due to being fairly old and sitting outside of the frig at the store (because they were no longer going to carry them). I could try mail order but so far no one's got them (Yakima direct, Morebeer, AIH, etc.). I was planning to mix EKG and Challenger this time, but I know the challenger won't get the fruity bit but I thought it might still be a good flavor.

So I'm seeing options - mail order First Gold (to get something fresh), add invert, and keep with Pub A09 but at a lower pitch.

Solid advice, thank you.

Still open to yeast options I don't need orange specifically but just didn't want to go off in some other clearly non-English direction. Was still trying to choose from English yeast strains. I'll read that linked thread again. I have read through it but quite soem time ago, and I know more now than I did then and might learn something.

Sucks about First Gold across the pond. It won't help that
a) even here, there's been a big swing in fashions, retailers sell Citra and Galaxy as soon as they land in the warehouse on but trad British and Continental hops are a bit out of fashion, so stay on the shelves longer and so the quality won't be as good.
b) Covid disruptions have meant less beer being sold in pubs so again there's more inventory hanging around than there might have been
c) Covid has caused wideranging disruption to world trade, and relatively small amounts of niche products are not first in line for the limited freight capacity available
d) Brexit is continuing to screw up British trade with the rest of the world - nearly six years after the referendum we still don't have working customs software, and most of the focus is again on fixing the big trade flows with our neighbours.

None of these are the sole reasons that you're not seeing particular British hops in good condition Stateside - but none of it helps.

Personally I wouldn't get too hung up on the orange thing, it may be a Fuller's trademark but most British beer doesn't have it. If you haven't tried 1469 then that's an obvious one to start with, maybe then WLP023. And if you ever see WLP038 Manchester then that definitely seems to be worth grabbing, it's a Vault strain that almost nobody has tried - I've not got round to trying mine - but the reviews all seem pretty positive.

 

[kmarkstevens]

WLP038 Manchester was gifted to me by someone on these boards that was clearing out the yeast bank (big thanks!). It's been by far the best yeast I've tried to get to Boddington's. And I need to revisit Tony's Pre 1970 Boddington Clone here: Recreating Boddingtons - Page 9 - Home Brew Forum

I have done this twice but not seriously attacked it brew after brew and I must do. This is a beer I MUST recreate. Now that winter is winding down and the rain is a bit less prevalent, it's time to get the stir plate going.

In my humble opinion, Brulosophy jumped the shark ages ago. They seem to be doing comparisons for comparison's sake. And no idea where that mild recipe came from but do try to use some English malts when making an English beer, puh-leese. And the other thing are the beer tasters that they employ. That said, God bless, relax, don't worry, have a home brew.

 

[eshea3]

Mighty impressed with Verdant IPA yeast. Pitched at 64 F on 4/7 at 2 pm. Healthy krauzen at 21 hours and hit terminal gravity in less than 60 hours.

 

[DuncB]

Verdant is a beast of a yeast, somewhere there was a thread about that yeast with many pictures of escaping krausen.

 

[deere322]

Speaking of Verdant Yeast, I'm going to brew up a Dry Irish stout and am thinking about using Verdant.

Good or bad decision?

 

[monkeymath]

I finally found myself with a sufficiently long period of time without my boss to try my hands at making invert sugar syrup.

I made two batches in parallel, one from "whole cane sugar" (just some boiled down sugar cane juice, unrefined) and one from "raw cane sugar". The former had the texture of damp sand and a deep caramel taste with licorice and some savory undertones, whereas the latter was a rather pale crystalline sugar, sweet and just lightly caramely.

For each batch, I dissolved the 500g of sugar in an equal amount of hot water, brought it to a boil, added 2ml of lactic acid, brought the temp up to 115°C and held it there for an extended period of time.

The batch made from whole cane sugar was black already from the start, so (besides inversion) I was mostly looking to add colour and flavour to the paler raw cane sugar. After three hours at 112-120°C it had reached a nice reddish hue and I decided to call it a day.

After hours in the syrups' fumes and countless intermediate taste tests, my taste buds are too knocked out to say much about the resulting flavours. The whole cane sugar did not change that dramatically, I think. The savory notes were pushed back and it became a bit malty and rum-like. For the lighter coloured batch, it developed some warm honey-like flavours and a mild fruitiness, perhaps, but it was very mild in comparison to the other batch, so I couldn't really appreciate any subtleties.

For the dark one, I wonder whether the process had any impact that could be detected in the final beer. If I had a spare fermenter, I'd try splitting the wort and adding the pure whole cane sugar to half of it. For the light one, I'm not sure whether it'll have a perceptible impact at all.

I'm going to use the dark one in a dark mild and the lighter one in a best bitter of sorts.

Just to clarify: when people talk about the percentages at which the sugars are used, does that mean percentage of the entire grist's weight or percentage of the fermentable sugars' weight?
For example, I might use 4kg of malt to make 20l of 10°P wort, which contains about 2kg of sugars. Would "10% invert" then correspond to 200g or 400g?!

Also, the whole cane sugar batch always developed a rather massive cap of foam. Does anyone know what that's about? (See also the attached picture.)

 

[McMullan]

Speaking of Verdant Yeast, I'm going to brew up a Dry Irish stout and am thinking about using Verdant.

Good or bad decision?

I'm planning on fermenting a brown ale, packed with Bramling Cross, with it. They claim it's good for stouts/porters so I'd go for it.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I find that the flavours of dark invert really start to shine if you let it rest for a few days.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Speaking of Verdant Yeast, I'm going to brew up a Dry Irish stout and am thinking about using Verdant.

Good or bad decision?

I've used Verdant a few times and really like it. It makes a great porter. And brown ale. Would it suit a dry stout? I dunno. It's not terribly dry, and it's pretty fruity. Depends what you want I guess.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Verdant ~= London Ale III

I'd go with Notty before LA3 in a dry stout.

 

[hout17]

Verdant ~= London Ale III

I'd go with Notty before LA3 in a dry stout.

I agree, I like notty or wyeast 1084 for my stouts. I also like ringwood wyeast 1187.

 

[Miraculix]

Speaking of Verdant Yeast, I'm going to brew up a Dry Irish stout and am thinking about using Verdant.

Good or bad decision?

Most expressive dry yeast I've had, really really fruity. If you like that in a stout, that's the one for you. For me, s04 is better.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Speaking of Verdant Yeast, I'm going to brew up a Dry Irish stout and am thinking about using Verdant.

Good or bad decision?

I've been thinking of doing the same thing. I usually go cleaner on dark beers, but thinking about trying this really fruity yeast I liked in bitter and Hazy recipes.

 

[DuncB]

I've just made a stout using similar ingredients to the Siren brewery Broken dream stout. But have left out the lactose and coffee and less gravity.
They ferment with their Own Vermont ale yeast. I had a packet of Lallemand East coast ale yeast in the fridge and so gave that a go. Fermented at 19 going up to 22.
Hydrometer tastings have been promising but a few more days before kegging yet and then when my other keg kicks of stout it's going on Nitro. Will update at packaging stage for a non nitro low carbed impression.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

The yeast I use as my British house strain goes well in stouts/darker ales. Granted I keep temps on the lower side during the first phase of fermentation, especially if using sugar, and it only throws light, subtle fruity notes in that case.
I guess it depends on what type of fruitiness you get from it, subtle "darker" fruity flavours blend pretty well, but as I understand it, Verdant/LA3 throws more tropical fruit esters that might be a little mismatched with a stout.

 

[deere322]

Dry Stout brewed yesterday and is fermenting with Verdant.

When I left for work this morning it was fermenting away with a small krausen.

I'll report back after it's kegged and carb'd.

 

[Miraculix]

Dry Stout brewed yesterday and is fermenting with Verdant.

When I left for work this morning it was fermenting away with a small krausen.

I'll report back after it's kegged and carb'd.

When you'll be back it will be crawling out of the air lock .

I had the idea of brewing a tropical stout with this yeast, really sweet, not too many ibus and about 5.5% abv. Mashed really high for high fg. That's going to be my next brew .

 

[balrog]

Speaking of Verdant Yeast, I'm going to brew up a Dry Irish stout and am thinking about using Verdant.Good or bad decision?

I know I'm late to the party on this but I prefer malty WY1450 Dennys or ultra-clean WY1007 for my dry stout. Color me traditionalist I guess.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Notty works well for a dry stout too!

 

[monkeymath]

I know I'm late to the party on this but I prefer malty WY1450 Dennys or ultra-clean WY1007 for my dry stout. Color me traditionalist I guess.

In what sense are these yeast strains more "traditional" than other choices?

 

[balrog]

In what sense are these yeast strains more "traditional" than other choices?

Wy1007 will be dryer, and WY1450 maltier, than the fruitier verdant strain. IMO.

 

[tracer bullet]

So, my #2 invert has arrived, and my mail-ordered from Canada First Gold hops are on their way as well. I expect an English Ale in my future once my California Common gets out of the fermenter. Currently I've been brewing (with slight rounding):

Base = Maris Otter
4% = Victory
6% = Medium Crystal
2% = Dark Crystal
Hops always include EKG, the last round was 50/50 First Gold and EKG throughout (some at boil, some at 15min, some at flame-out)

Using invert #2, let's say 5% for starters to get my feet wet, I'm assuming this is measured by weight? Would I replace the base grain with it, the Crystal, or some of each?

For the First Gold & EKG, does it make sense to combo them throughout or should I be focusing on one over the other at certain steps (i.e. OMG you fool never boil EKG or never late hop first gold)?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Using invert #2, let's say 5% for starters to get my feet wet, I'm assuming this is measured by weight? Would I replace the base grain with it, the Crystal, or some of each?

I'd replace base malt with the invert at a 1:1 ratio with the crystal, measured by weight.

 

[balrog]

I'd replace base malt with the invert at a 1:1 ratio with the crystal, measured by weight.

sad to say i had to think about that almost as much as I used to when I first started looking at POSIX shell scripts about 7 million years ago...

 

[Witherby]

sad to say i had to think about that almost as much as I used to when I first started looking at POSIX shell scripts about 7 million years ago...

I don’t know what that means, but same.

 

[friarsmith]

Late to the cricket ground here due to a sticky wicket getting my knickers in a twist. I have brewed this a few times and love it. The GNO's give it a slightly silky mouthfeel which balances the dry/bitter aspects of the beer so it isn't harsh, and the head almost looks like a nitro pour.

British Golden Ale
46.3% Great West High Color Pale
46.3% Crisp Maris Otter
4.6% Golden Naked Oats
2.8% Victory
Mashed at 152* for 2 hrs (Errands: I was out of Earl Grey and blood pudding...sue me)
Hops are a mix of Warrior, Cascade and EKG. See the link
WLP007 pitched and fermented at 60* for a few days then finished out at laundry (room) temp.
1.051 - 1.008
Kegged with dextrose solution for natural carb for a week or so, then chilled to serving temp.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1138994/-2021-04-08-british-golden

 

[DBhomebrew]

sad to say i had to think about that almost as much as I used to when I first started looking at POSIX shell scripts about 7 million years ago...

I don’t know what that means, but same.

Content or grammatical syntax?

 

[balrog]

Two "withs" scrambled my brain.
Sub A with B at 1:1 with C

"Sub base malt with invert; use as much wt invert as you have wt of crystal in the recipe"
That's what I think at least that you are saying.

And trust me, it's my brain that's the problem.

 

[tracer bullet]

I'd replace base malt with the invert at a 1:1 ratio with the crystal, measured by weight.

I think I see what you're suggesting. Something like this:

FROM
88% = Maris Otter
4% = Victory
6% = Medium Crystal
2% = Dark Crystal

TO
80% = Maris Otter
8% = Invert
4% = Victory
6% = Medium Crystal
2% = Dark Crystal

%'s by weight.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Two "withs" scrambled my brain.
Sub A with B at 1:1 with C

"Sub base malt with invert; use as much wt invert as you have wt of crystal in the recipe"
That's what I think at least that you are saying.

And trust me, it's my brain that's the problem.

I think I see what you're suggesting. Something like this:

FROM
88% = Maris Otter
4% = Victory
6% = Medium Crystal
2% = Dark Crystal

TO
80% = Maris Otter
8% = Invert
4% = Victory
6% = Medium Crystal
2% = Dark Crystal

%'s by weight.

Yep!