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Brewskey

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Is it worth checking the pH and if so are we aiming for neutral?
I know you weren't asking me. But, I don't check the final pH, just taste it and make sure it's not tart tasting. I've been using 88% lactic and baking soda to neutralize at about 1:1. Working good so far. I think I got the baking soda thing here.
 

Colindo

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I reread the paper I posted in #4,224 and they do neutralise the sugar after inversion. So that seems to have been the standard in 1896 as well.

What I find peculiar is that they go to great length to filter all impurities out of the sugar. They also say that any molasses matter is detrimental. Not sure if the description holds only for the palest invert #1, but they definitely would not have used molasses as an addition.
 

eshea3

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I always enjoy these little back and forths between home brewers. I long ago came to terms with this basic truth - my ingredients are not identical to the ingredients used historically nor are they identical to ingredients used by brewers who have the leverage to specify custom malting processes and do hop selection.

So I content myself with the easy path to make "invert sugar" as specified by Ron and Kristen. After bringing the sugar to the 240 mark, I whack it into an oven to hold for the appropriate time. Don't worry too much if its the exact color spec. In the end it's only whether the beer I put it in tastes good to me.
 

DBhomebrew

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I have zero problems with people doing what suits them - merely expressing my philosophy

Indeed. I brew and make my invert just as you do, with the same philosophy. But, I also read Shut Up daily.

Fine tune the picture of the ideal, but don't worry too much whether I truly approach it. I brew historically-inspired beers, not historically.
 

eshea3

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Indeed. I brew and make my invert just as you do, with the same philosophy. But, I also read Shut Up daily.

Fine tune the picture of the ideal, but don't worry too much whether I truly approach it. I brew historically-inspired beers, not historically.
Beauty of homebrewing is you get to do what you want to do.
 

bwible

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And yet, the strive to uncover what our forbears did (and get as close as possible to recreating it) remains an ever-interesting pursuit.
Better than some of the “new” stuff thats been invented - cloudy ipas that look like a glass of orange juice, beers intentionally made sour, or “pastry stouts”. Things like that make me want to look back to the past instead of living in dread of what the next fad/obsession is going to be. I’ll take a well made pre-prohibition lager over the “best” NEIPA or any sour beer any day.
 

tracer bullet

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I see them similarly... I wont' try to convince anyone else to do so, but it's that way for me. It's the "hmm, I have a goal, can I get there"? And I like to learn on the way. Duplicate a company's beer, fullest representation of cascade hops in a beer, most chocolate flavor in a stout without actual chocolate, fruitiest IPA, whatever! I also just think beer is yummy and am open to many types. I do however agree not all types. I enjoy a hazy IPA, and most sours, but the pastry stouts I will skip.

Sorry for continuing the off-topic.
 

Brewskey

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My attempt at a Fuller's London Porter from the recipe here. I'm really pleased with the way it turned out. I'm not sure how close it is to the real thing, it has been years since I had one, might have to cross the Florida line and hunt one down... A09 drops super clear and sticks to the bottom of the bottle like glue.
IMG_4935.jpeg
 

bellhp

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I've got my invert sugar made and it's cooling off in the jars . I am going to brew another 1 gal batch of bitter tomorrow using invert for the first time . Currently my recipe is 91% base malt and 9% Crystal malt . My OG is 1.044 . In what proportion should I use the invert so that I can appreciate what it does to the recipe.
Should I decrease the base malt proportionally to the invert? the purpose of these 1 gallon batches is to evaluate ingredients without changing too many variables. thoughts?
20230225_195919[1].jpg
 

Brewskey

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I've got my invert sugar made and it's cooling off in the jars . I am going to brew another 1 gal batch of bitter tomorrow using invert for the first time . Currently my recipe is 91% base malt and 9% Crystal malt . My OG is 1.044 . In what proportion should I use the invert so that I can appreciate what it does to the recipe.
Should I decrease the base malt proportionally to the invert? the purpose of these 1 gallon batches is to evaluate ingredients without changing too many variables. thoughts?
View attachment 813609
Nice looking invert. Yeah, just replace 5 to 10% of the base malt with invert. Which method did you end up using when you made it?
 

bellhp

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I used Turbonado (Sugar in the raw) 1lb to 1 pt water . brought it to a boil on stove while I preheated jars to 240 in oven .
Then I put it in the jars and baked at 240 for 2 hrs. Oh I used A dash of lemon juice for acid and a dash of baking soda at the end as Miraculix suggested . That's why there is a head on the jars I had just stirred in the soda .
Thanks for the suggestion , I'll do a 10% malt substitution with the invert when I brew this today.
Also if anyone is interested I contacted Steen's to get analysis on their pure cane syrup and here it is , Steen's is the coonass version of golden syrup, treacle , molasses whatever ... it's pure cane juice boiled down to a syrup ... I plan on comparing it to the invert syrup in a later batch.
 

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bellhp

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I garontee!
Justin Wilson ... for the non coonasses in the crowd . 🤔
Just looked up the Golden Eagle Syrup and it appears to be a blend of Cane sugar , corn syrup, honey and molasses . I'm gonna grab some next time I see it ... but for pancakes and such 🥞.
Steens may suck as an adjunct I don't know , smells just like wort though ... malty. I'm guessing it may work in a dark english ale . I really like Sam Smith Nut brown and Taddy porter and there is a subtle sweet/fruit flavor I like in those beers ... maybe yeast/fermentation method is what I detect or maybe it's an adjunct.
Let's see what this invert does ... I'm brewing test batch #3 now.
 

Deric

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Looking for 5 gallon recipe suggestions...

Been meaning to do this for a while...

I just cooked up my first batch of invert. Just ordered Ron's "AK" book but likely won't be here by next weekend when I plan to brew.

On hand I have Skagit True British (local maltser's Maris Otter-ish), various crystal, Munich, Vienna, dark malts, etc. Lot's of Fuggles, 4 oz of EKG, lots of "German" hops (Magnum, Hallertau, etc.) and, of course, a ton of typical American IPA hops...

I have WLP002 and Imperial A38 Juice on hand. Is Juice a good sub for 1318 in traditional English beers?

Planning to brew Saturday - my LHBS is an hour+ away but should be able to get there on Wednesday if I need to grab anything else.

Any input/suggestions appreciated.

:mug:
 

shoreman

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There’s plenty of recipes on Ron’s blog - the posts start with “Let’s Brew”

 

Miraculix

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Looking for 5 gallon recipe suggestions...

Been meaning to do this for a while...

I just cooked up my first batch of invert. Just ordered Ron's "AK" book but likely won't be here by next weekend when I plan to brew.

On hand I have Skagit True British (local maltser's Maris Otter-ish), various crystal, Munich, Vienna, dark malts, etc. Lot's of Fuggles, 4 oz of EKG, lots of "German" hops (Magnum, Hallertau, etc.) and, of course, a ton of typical American IPA hops...

I have WLP002 and Imperial A38 Juice on hand. Is Juice a good sub for 1318 in traditional English beers?

Planning to brew Saturday - my LHBS is an hour+ away but should be able to get there on Wednesday if I need to grab anything else.

Any input/suggestions appreciated.

:mug:
5% Medium Crystal, 10% invert, rest mo base. Bittered to 30-35 ibus, I prefer 30. 10 minute late addition about 1g/l,rest 60 minute bittering addition. Only noble or British hops.

You can include in the mash a dash of black malt (30g-50g) for colour if you want. Mash single infusion at 65c or better, 30 minutes at 62c 30 minutes at 72c plus 15 minutes at 77c.

Og about 1.040 to 1.042, yeast 002 with a starter. Temperature not heigher than 20c!

Low carbonation. Max 2g sugar per 0.5 litre.

You can use all EKG if you have enough of it. That hop is perfect.
 
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Witherby

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Cannot go wrong with this combination!



I have not tried it yet. I wanted to brew with S04 plus 1099 in the mix but apparently, my 1099 did not survive the freezing. Now I have to improvise and I wanted to try the Notti/Windsor combination since ages.


Half a pack each. Then I can brew it again, without ordering new packs.


This!

I brewed a best bitter last Monday using a half pack of Windsor and a half pack of Nottingham.

7.5 lbs Maris Otter (Crisp floor malted) [80.%]
1 lb Wheat malt [10.7%]
4 oz Crystal 77 (Crisp) [vorlauf] [2.7%]
1.5 oz Carafa Special 1 [vorlauf] [1.1%]
.5 lb Invert #2 [boil] [5.3%]

EKG at 60 min for 28 IBU
Styrian Celeia at 10 min for 4 IBU
27g whole cone Styrian Celeia dry hop in the fermenter after 4 days of fermentation

I mashed at 152F (no sparge in my Anvil Foundry). I need to adjust my efficiency numbers in Beersmith because I was aiming for 1.044 but ended up with 1.048 OG.

It took off like crazy and went from 1.048 to 1.018 in 2 days, which is 67%, so that was the Windsor doing its thing, from what I have read.

But it is still dropping a little more each day since then and is now a week later at 1.012. I want to bottle condition this beer so I want it to finish before bottling. What is your experience with bottling a Windsor/Notty mix? I will be bottling this weekend but could cold crash before then if that makes sense. The sample I took was still very cloudy. I'm hoping it flocculates more by the end of the week.
 

Miraculix

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I brewed a best bitter last Monday using a half pack of Windsor and a half pack of Nottingham.

7.5 lbs Maris Otter (Crisp floor malted) [80.%]
1 lb Wheat malt [10.7%]
4 oz Crystal 77 (Crisp) [vorlauf] [2.7%]
1.5 oz Carafa Special 1 [vorlauf] [1.1%]
.5 lb Invert #2 [boil] [5.3%]

EKG at 60 min for 28 IBU
Styrian Celeia at 10 min for 4 IBU
27g whole cone Styrian Celeia dry hop in the fermenter after 4 days of fermentation

I mashed at 152F (no sparge in my Anvil Foundry). I need to adjust my efficiency numbers in Beersmith because I was aiming for 1.044 but ended up with 1.048 OG.

It took off like crazy and went from 1.048 to 1.018 in 2 days, which is 67%, so that was the Windsor doing its thing, from what I have read.

But it is still dropping a little more each day since then and is now a week later at 1.012. I want to bottle condition this beer so I want it to finish before bottling. What is your experience with bottling a Windsor/Notty mix? I will be bottling this weekend but could cold crash before then if that makes sense. The sample I took was still very cloudy. I'm hoping it flocculates more by the end of the week.
I've bottled last Friday and had about 70% attenuation. The beer was still pretty cloudy, compared to Nottingham only in a similar beer. It also had a strong yeast bite. Cold crash might be a good idea.
 

Deric

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5% Medium Crystal, 10% invert, rest mo base. Bittered to 30-35 ibus, I prefer 30. 10 minute late addition about 1g/l,rest 60 minute bittering addition. Only noble or British hops.

You can include in the mash a dash of black malt (30g-50g) for colour if you want. Mash single infusion at 65c or better, 30 minutes at 62c 30 minutes at 72c plus 15 minutes at 77c.

Og about 1.040 to 1.042, yeast 002 with a starter. Temperature not heigher than 20c!

Low carbonation. Max 2g sugar per 0.5 litre.

You can use all EKG if you have enough of it. That hop is perfect.

Awesome -thank you! Any suggestions for water profile?
 

Colindo

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I started my holiday in Southern UK and though I usually try to avoid Greene King because they're everywhere, in one place there was nothing else. Then I was pleasantly suprised by them having Old Speckled Hen on cask, which I have not seen in their pubs before. Though apparently it was bought by GK in 2000.
Long story short, the pint of Old Speckled Hen was amazing. Intense malty flavour with a liquorice note that lasted a full minute after each sip. They have the ingredients on their website and I'm sure the Real Ale Almanac will have even more details. But does anyone know what yeast they might use? Would be nice to know.

Is Juice a good sub for 1318 in traditional English beers?
They are one of the few strains where it is exactly the same, i.e. the strain known as NCYC 1318 which has the taletelling "aka London Ale III" in its description.
 

kmarkstevens

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But it is still dropping a little more each day since then and is now a week later at 1.012. I want to bottle condition this beer so I want it to finish before bottling. What is your experience with bottling a Windsor/Notty mix? I will be bottling this weekend but could cold crash before then if that makes sense. The sample I took was still very cloudy. I'm hoping it flocculates more by the end of the week.
I would plug in Notty to your calculator and go with that as the FG. My understanding of mixed yeast is that it tends to finish out at whatever yeastie is the strongest attenuator.

Here is a white labs presentation on a guide to blending yeast strains. While WL has never made a definitive declaration on which yeasts make up WLP085, they do use WLP002 and WLP007 as the example to get the esters and with higher attenuation. Whaddya know, if you compare the FG of WLP007 and WLP085, you get the same FG.
 

Pennine

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I started my holiday in Southern UK and though I usually try to avoid Greene King because they're everywhere, in one place there was nothing else. Then I was pleasantly suprised by them having Old Speckled Hen on cask, which I have not seen in their pubs before. Though apparently it was bought by GK in 2000.
Long story short, the pint of Old Speckled Hen was amazing. Intense malty flavour with a liquorice note that lasted a full minute after each sip. They have the ingredients on their website and I'm sure the Real Ale Almanac will have even more details. But does anyone know what yeast they might use? Would be nice to know.


They are one of the few strains where it is exactly the same, i.e. the strain known as NCYC 1318 which has the taletelling "aka London Ale III" in its description.
OSH on cask is fantastic. I have been looking for their yeast for a while and haven't come across it other than some saying it's in hens tooth. I have been using S-04 fermented on the cold side and made a decent replica.

Abbot ale on cask is great too if you can find it.
 

eshea3

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Awesome -thank you! Any suggestions for water profile?

I
 

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Next unexpected treasure: The pub close to our current location is from Hall and Woodhouse. Having @Northern_Brewer 's comments in my mind, I looked at the hand pumps and discovered Flack's Double Drop. What a fantastic ale. I had wanted to try it for some time because they still do the historic Double Drop Brewing. It was particularly sad that I had never tried it since it's being brewed just one town next to where I studied 10 years ago.

IMG_20230228_182055.jpg


For 3.7%, this is incredibly flavourful. Just earlier today I had a watery 4.5% ABV ale in Southampton, which was somewhat disappointing. The Double Drop was so much more intense. Just a great, balanced ale, apparently using the Sovereign hops with which I have little experience.
I have been using S-04 fermented on the cold side and made a decent replica.
Thanks for the advice, I might try it that way. They say the crystal malt is particularly important, what kind did you use? Just a standard 75 SRM?
 

Pennine

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Next unexpected treasure: The pub close to our current location is from Hall and Woodhouse. Having @Northern_Brewer 's comments in my mind, I looked at the hand pumps and discovered Flack's Double Drop. What a fantastic ale. I had wanted to try it for some time because they still do the historic Double Drop Brewing. It was particularly sad that I had never tried it since it's being brewed just one town next to where I studied 10 years ago.

View attachment 813906

For 3.7%, this is incredibly flavourful. Just earlier today I had a watery 4.5% ABV ale in Southampton, which was somewhat disappointing. The Double Drop was so much more intense. Just a great, balanced ale, apparently using the Sovereign hops with which I have little experience.

Thanks for the advice, I might try it that way. They say the crystal malt is particularly important, what kind did you use? Just a standard 75 SRM?
I used medium crystal I think it's 60L and DRC which I believe is 120L. It's not exactly right but it gets me in the ball park. I think the next edition I will do a 1:1 ratio of the two crystal malts. The recent batch was 2:1 med/DRC.
 

Northern_Brewer

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OSH on cask is fantastic. I have been looking for their yeast for a while and haven't come across it other than some saying it's in hens tooth. I have been using S-04 fermented on the cold side and made a decent replica.
I think Hen's Tooth was discontinued a few years ago, although I still have a bottle sitting around.

OSH is fermented particularly warm, ferment up to 24°C (75°F) but they have hydrostatic effects suppressing off-flavours, so maybe 21°C (70°F) would be a rough equivalent at homebrew scale. I don't know but I'd imagine a Whitbread yeast of some kind would be a sensible starting point.

Abbot ale on cask is great too if you can find it.
...and if it's kept properly, which is far from a given in a GK pub....
 

Erik the Anglophile

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A pint of my Old Peculier inspired ale, turned out nice, it's in the same vein as OP but still it's own beer.
Next time though I will probably switch the chocolate malt for a slightly lower amount of black malt, and the m42/Brewly yeast blend will likely suit it better.
 

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Deric

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Brewed today. Recipe per @Miraculix

5% C60, 10% invert, 85% Skagit True British. Overshot OG a bit so added distilled water to hit 1.042.

2 oz. EKG at 60, .75 oz. at 10

WLP002. Wort tastes great.

I have 1.25 oz. EKG left over and thinking about dry hopping. Yay? Nay?
 

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Miraculix

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Brewed today. Recipe per @Miraculix

5% C60, 10% invert, 85% Skagit True British. Overshot OG a bit so added distilled water to hit 1.042.

2 oz. EKG at 60, .75 oz. at 10

WLP002. Wort tastes great.

I have 1.25 oz. EKG left over and thinking about dry hopping. Yay? Nay?
Don't overdo it, but in general, dry hopping is a good idea. 1g-1.5g per litre.
 

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