English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

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Many here have probably seen this many times but I’ll throw it out there to anybody new. Where this info comes from about which yeasts are supposedly from which brewery. If this is not in stickies someplace it should be.

http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm
That's a start and a great pioneering effort in 2006 from Kirsten England (who I know only from his impressive Shut Up About Barclay Perkins collaboration phase). That said, check out Suregork, who posts on these boards. Suregork, and in somewhat of a collaboration with White Labs, has mapped out the genomes of an impressive amount of yeast. See this brewing yeast tree chart updated. It's a complete eye chart but is definitely worth checking out to see what pairs with what, and how close genetically some yeasties are.

Seperately, Whitelabs is going to add the vault strains to the Yeastman website. Hasn't happened yet but should be soon according to an email I got back from whitelabs. You are right, that some of those vault strains took freaking forever. I've picked up several over the past 2 years, and then got a half dozen when they opened up the vault and shipped everything in June/July this year. Too bad you missed that opportunity.
 
Many here have probably seen this many times but I’ll throw it out there to anybody new. Where this info comes from about which yeasts are supposedly from which brewery. If this is not in stickies someplace it should be.

http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm
That's a start and a great pioneering effort in 2006 from Kirsten England (who I know only from his impressive Shut Up About Barclay Perkins collaboration phase). That said, check out Suregork, who posts on these boards. Suregork, and in somewhat of a collaboration with White Labs, has mapped out the genomes of an impressive amount of yeast. See this brewing yeast tree chart updated. It's a complete eye chart but is definitely worth checking out to see what pairs with what, and how close genetically some yeasties are.

Separately, Whitelabs is going to add the vault strains to the Yeastman website. Hasn't happened yet but should be soon according to an email I got back from whitelabs. You are right, that some of those vault strains took freaking forever. I've picked up a few over the past 2 years, and then got a half dozen when they opened up the vault and shipped everything in June/July this year. Too bad you missed that opportunity.
 
Hanglow, Until around the year Bass was available in the Quebec government owned liquor stores. Then when Bass was acquired by "the devil" ( as a Belgian I completely dislike Abinbev-INterbrew ) it completely disapeared of the Canadian market. The way I understand, cask Bass is still brewed under contract by Marstons.
Yeah, we can buy cans/bottles of bass here but it's brewed differently to the cask version I think although it is the same strength. I imagine the bass that is available in NA if you can find it again would be different again.

It would be nice to see such an historically important beer treated with a bit more respect by AB/Inbev but I wouldnt get our hopes up!
 
Being a homebrewer I don't like to waste my time brewing low ABV beers.

I wouldn't be saying that on this thread! :) And one of the reasons to brew British-style beers yourself is to get them fresh if you can't get them locally, they can be so sensitive to ageing even in bottle - and of course it's almost impossible to replicate the One True Serve™ (cask) in export markets.

Bass used to be available in Montreal but now I have to brew it at home. I found a recipe published by the Brew your own magazine.

Just as a general comment I would use British sources for cloning British beers - there's plenty of them, and they're more likely to be based on the actual, fresh beer by someone with experience of what British beers are meant to taste like. That's not always the case for US authors....

Bear in mind that ABI have brewed Bass in the US since 2012 (ditto Beck's), so I guess that what you've seen is some change in the local distribution arrangements - or Montreal distributors shared British views on the US-brewed impostor.

Current cask brewed Bass is still surprisingly good too, it's made by Marstons currently and is probably about the best cask beer of theirs I've had.

Bit unfair - I don't know if it's dry-hopping or what, but beers like Pedigree need to be super-fresh as they get dull within hours of a cask being tapped. Get Pedigree at a high-throughput event like a festival or sports stadium and it can be cracking.

Many here have probably seen this many times but I’ll throw it out there to anybody new. Where this info comes from about which yeasts are supposedly from which brewery. If this is not in stickies someplace it should be.

http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm

Although that's the usual list people quote in relation to yeast sources, it was demonstrably nonsense in some cases (particularly in relation to British strains) even before we had genome sequencing. Inevitably such lists have a lot of coulda-woulda-shoulda, but dmtaylor's list is the least bad one we have, at least it's based on both DNA results and practical brewing experience.

I would describe the 1275 as very clean and more neutral with less character than most of the other English strains I’ve used....I would compare 1275 favorably to 1056 and just about say I could use them almost interchangeably.

Clean is just another word for bland - which is not what British yeast are about. You want the most characterful yeasts you can find, it's a vital part of the balance of British beer - and most commercial homebrew yeasts lack character compared to the ones actually used in British breweries.

WLP039 is available as a seasonal vault release now, I used it in some golden ales with good results. It is pretty clean, attenuated well, lets the hop flavor come through and drops clear quickly.

WLP039 is effectively a liquid version of Nottingham.

As an aside, Kristen England was the BJCP’s educational director for many years and is now brewing at Bent Brewstillery in Minnesota, he also has a PhD in pharmacology.
 
This time of year, I nearly always brew an nice winter warmer style british ale. Something with spicy hops but no spices, that is complex, rich and warming, but still drinkable (~6%) in pints! This year the recipe is:

Welcome Winter Willie Warmer

SG 1064
FG 1016
6.3%
IBU 33
SRM 11.28

11lb Crisp #19 floor malted maris otter (82.5%)
12oz Simpson crystal medium (5.5%)
12 oz torrified wheat (5.5%)
2 oz roasted barley (1%)
1lb of invert #2 (7.3%)

2 oz EKG FWH 60mins
1 oz Bramling Cross @ 10mins
1 oz EKG and 1 oz BX at flameout

Yeast: Wyeast 1469 ~200b cells (~2l starter)
 
still drinkable (~6%) in pints!

You're a better man than me! :)

Worth noting that if you're using 2018 BX, they're much more Goldings-y than usual, if you want that blackcurrant you might want a different year (or eg Bullion from another year).

Some here might be interested in or have opinions on kmarkstevens' plans for a UK beercation over on this thread.
 
So for whatever reason my strong bitter has turned out very hazy even after a couple weeks of cold conditioning. I rarely have hazy beers so I suspect that it must be ingredient related.

Would a dry hop of 0.5 oz EKG cause persistent haze?

I dosed the water fairly heavily with minerals too (160ppm calcium, 120ppm sulfate, 40ppm chloride) so not Burtonized but minerally

The basic recipe was

Golden promise
Crystal 75
A touch of brown malt and amber malt
Invert #2

Is this a common issue with bitters or have I managed to mess something up?
 
Nah - something like that should be dropping clear as a bell.

Two causes of haze - either yeast not dropping or excess protein. What yeast are you using?

I guess one cause could be excess protein either in the invert somehow, or maybe the GP - we've not had the easiest harvests lately, can you get the spec?

PS That's barely minerally at all...
 
Nah - something like that should be dropping clear as a bell.

Two causes of haze - either yeast not dropping or excess protein. What yeast are you using?

I guess one cause could be excess protein either in the invert somehow, or maybe the GP - we've not had the easiest harvests lately, can you get the spec?

PS That's barely minerally at all...

I used 1968 which clearly flocculates like a Russian sailor, and it was a bag of bsg Simpsons golden promise that I won in a giveaway so unfortunately no.

You can also get haze from polyphenols as well, so it could be that the dry hop did it or I managed to get some tannins from the grain husks.

Ah well it tastes great and may be the fastest keg I've ever gone through. I pulled it from the yeast very early (based on that temp schedule thread) and it tasted like apples at first so I thought it had acetaldehyde, but now I'm convinced that I was getting faint Grassy from the dry hop and a hint of roast from the brown malt and my palate was fooling me. It's nicely fruity now with only an inappropriate flavor from the brown/amber.


I plan to brew a version 2.0 of the recipe soon (sans brown and amber) and faux cask condition it in cubitainers now that I have a place to store at celler temperature.
 
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Agree with NB and my last bag of Simpson's Golden Promise did make hazy brews.

I'll frequently use 160 ppm calcium (more sometimes) but that provides something like 300 ppm sulfate and 150 ppm chloride with attendant magnesium, sodium and alkalinity for such brews. My water is very alkaline and sulfuric and hydrochloric acids are used that convert it to sulfates and chlorides. I don't use phosphoric for that purpose as it leaves a calcium phosphate deposit in the HLT.
 
Agree with NB and my last bag of Simpson's Golden Promise did make hazy brews.

I'll frequently use 160 ppm calcium (more sometimes) but that provides something like 300 ppm sulfate and 150 ppm chloride with attendant magnesium, sodium and alkalinity for such brews. My water is very alkaline and sulfuric and hydrochloric acids are used that converts it to sulfates and chlorides. I don't use phosphoric for that purpose as it leaves a calcium phosphate deposit in the HLT.

I'm probably going to get some Maris Otter for my next go-round anyway so hopefully that clears it up
 
It's clearly not the yeast so I'd tend to blame the malt - the late winter and heatwave of 2018 made things difficult for spring barleys like GP to establish (whereas winter ones like Otter had been and gone one extra-early), and they ended up relaxing the specification, certainly up in Scotland. Plus the distillers tend to take all the really low-N stuff as they have tighter specs than the brewers. So if you've got any left all I can suggest is giving it a bit of extra finings in the kettle and perhaps try another cold crash?

A whisper of UK chocolate malt (say 0.9%) can be nice.
 
It's clearly not the yeast so I'd tend to blame the malt - the late winter and heatwave of 2018 made things difficult for spring barleys like GP to establish (whereas winter ones like Otter had been and gone one extra-early), and they ended up relaxing the specification, certainly up in Scotland. Plus the distillers tend to take all the really low-N stuff as they have tighter specs than the brewers. So if you've got any left all I can suggest is giving it a bit of extra finings in the kettle and perhaps try another cold crash?

A whisper of UK chocolate malt (say 0.9%) can be nice.

It just so happens my version 2.0 follows that advice after looking through your posted photos of Fuller's ledgers

It's more a completely different recipe than a version 2 of the same recipe but my second go-round will be:


OG 1.050
IBU 42

83.7% Maris Otter
10.5% Invert #2
5.2% UK crystal 50
0.7% chocolate

0.45oz Magnum @60 minutes
1 oz EKG @10 min
1 oz Challenger @5 min
0.5 oz EKG dry hop

WY1318

Water: 144ppm Calcium, 250ppm Sulfate, 60ppm Chloride
 
Does anyone here use Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale?

"Originating from the Hales Brewery in Seattle via the Gales Brewery in the UK"

I'm looking for a good house ale yeast for british styles that attenuates well and also drops quickly and isn't super finicky.
 
Not 1332, but I used the White Labs equivalent WLP041 once and liked it, it's got that easy drinkability to it that all British beers should have. I'll certainly try it again.

Along with 1272 American Ale II they're close relatives of the WLP002/007 Whitbread group, which makes sense as Gales supposedly got their yeast from Brickwoods of Portsmouth, who were bought by Whitbread in 1971.
 
Thanks Northern Brewer, I had been using West Coast IPA from Wyeast which is a Chico or Stone yeast sourced from Canada I believe as a great house yeast. Super floc, attenuation and easy to use but I used my last generation recently and it looks like they won't be producing it this year as a platinum strain.
 
Does anyone here use Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale?

"Originating from the Hales Brewery in Seattle via the Gales Brewery in the UK"

I'm looking for a good house ale yeast for british styles that attenuates well and also drops quickly and isn't super finicky.

I've used it a couple times as well and like it. It seems to accentuate citrus, pine, and resinous hop flavors which make it well suited for american styles. I used it to make a Northwest Pale ale with spruce tips (a clone of Deschutes Red Chair) and it came out great.
 
Does anyone here use Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale?

"Originating from the Hales Brewery in Seattle via the Gales Brewery in the UK"

I'm looking for a good house ale yeast for british styles that attenuates well and also drops quickly and isn't super finicky.
That might be a good yeast for you. That said, why not use a real british strain instead? To name just a few that I like: Nottingham is a workhorse that attenuates well, drops out clean and is far from finicky. Wyeast 1469 is highly flocculant with around 70% attenuation. WLP07 is clean, 80% attenuation and highlighly flocculant.
 
That might be a good yeast for you. That said, why not use a real british strain instead? To name just a few that I like: Nottingham is a workhorse that attenuates well, drops out clean and is far from finicky. Wyeast 1469 is highly flocculant with around 70% attenuation. WLP07 is clean, 80% attenuation and highlighly flocculant.

Thanks. I've used Notty in the past alot and its a great strain but I had issues once repitching dry yeast and tend to build up a good amount of wyeast or omega yeast for starters or repitching. For a house yeast I need liquid.

Wyeast 1469 looks interesting, will check it out. I've used 007 a few times and have found it to be a finicky, once had a full on stalled ferment at like 1.024 on a simple bitter and I mash for fermentibility. I like my beers dry, so a bunch of the english strains I have passed on but will check out Wyeast 1469.
 
That said, why not use a real british strain instead?

1332 and WLP041 are "real" British strains - as I said above they're close relatives of the WLP007 you suggest, but with better flocculation and a bit less attenuation (which is no bad thing for many British styles).

Nottingham is hugely popular among British homebrewers (and more than a few commercial breweries) as it is so forgiving and easy to work with, but does lack the character that you really want for a proper British beer.
 
WY1332 is a good choice, although it can go a touch tart when fermented warm; not surprising considering its Whitbread B origins.

Another good, albeit overlooked UK yeast that fits the bill is WY1335. It is similarly clean, attenuative and flocculative, while still providing British character.
 
You're a better man than me! :)

Worth noting that if you're using 2018 BX, they're much more Goldings-y than usual, if you want that blackcurrant you might want a different year (or eg Bullion from another year).

Some here might be interested in or have opinions on kmarkstevens' plans for a UK beercation over on this thread.

6% is considered pretty drinkable on this side of the pond- 5% beers are descibed as sessionable!

I think my BX are 2018 crop but might be 2017, I bought them from cross my loof back in the spring- Im not getting much blackcurrant out of them eitherway- but they are nice and spicy, in a fuggles kind of way.
 
1332 and WLP041 are "real" British strains - as I said above they're close relatives of the WLP007 you suggest, but with better flocculation and a bit less attenuation (which is no bad thing for many British styles).

Nottingham is hugely popular among British homebrewers (and more than a few commercial breweries) as it is so forgiving and easy to work with, but does lack the character that you really want for a proper British beer.
I stand corrected. Rumor has it that WLP041 is the Red Hook and/or Hale's yeast strain. I've drunk tons of Red Hook ESB and visited the brewery (maybe 15 miles away). When I get to the UK, then I'll be able to judge if it's a proper ESB. :)

Notty is probably my favorite "Plan B" yeast for when don't know what to use, don't have a starter or a liquid yeast handy.
 
If you look at Hale's history, you'll see that Mike Hale spent a year at Gale's in 1982 and his Hales Special Bitter suspiciously shares the same initials as Gale's flagship Horndean Special Bitter - the general assumption is that Hale took the Gale's yeast with him when he went home.

When I get to the UK, then I'll be able to judge if it's a proper ESB. :)

When you get to the UK you'll understand that there's no such thing as "a" ESB as it's not a style of beer, but a specific beer from Fuller's that isn't particularly representative of strong bitter as a whole.... (and that you'll likely only find in Fuller's pubs in London, and even then not in all of them)
 
@northerbrewer do you know the origin story behind Greg Noonan’s Vermont Pub and Brewery Conan strain that made it to the alchemist via 7 barrel brewery?

The story I heard is that Greg picked this yeast up in a trip to England in the beginning of VPB.

I was using the Omega version of that yeast making pale ales and decided to use it in my Rye Mild recipe that has maybe .5oz of hops in it. Dropped crystal clear in the keg in 2 weeks no finings.

That yeast can floc well if there aren’t a gazzillion hops in the bill.
 
Another good, albeit overlooked UK yeast that fits the bill is WY1335. It is similarly clean, attenuative and flocculative, while still providing British character.

1335 looks interesting, do you know the origins of that yeast?
 
Little beyond the headline story. But the one Conan that's been sequenced falls very close to that same WLP007 group, so I'd assume Noonan asked for a good yeast for conicals and was told Whitbread B, which has since evolved a little in Vermont.

Allegedly 1335 is from Adnams, but it may be the other half of the multistrain to WLP025. Extracting the multistrain from Adnams minicasks is a fairly standard thing over here, it's a nice yeast.
 
1335 looks interesting, do you know the origins of that yeast?

Per the 1335, it is also believed to be a Whitbread B derivative and WY1335 and WLP025 behave and taste quite differently. I have yet use them as a blend, but either one works well for British beer. I slightly prefer 1335 for its better top cropping ability, although WLP025 is more characterful.

The Conan story is very convoluted but it is highly likely it is another Whitbread B type, as that was one of the most common yeasts sold/used by early micros in the US at the time. The other popular strains were the isolated NCYC1187 (essentially the same as Notty) and used as a CCV fermentation yeast, Ringwood (being part of the larger 1187 based culture that contained Whitbread yeasts), and "Whitbread," which was initially sold as a dry multi strain containing both A and B strains and then later a single strain version. In the early 90's the liquid form of NCYC1026, Whitbread Dry, became available. Confused yet?
 
Interesting. Here is photo of Conan on a small amount of hops, 2 weeks in the keg only a primary ferment for 7 days. I always thought it was the floc of that yeast, but I think the "haze" is just a pure bi-product of that yeast's interaction with large hop bills.

conan.png
 
When you get to the UK you'll understand that there's no such thing as "a" ESB as it's not a style of beer, but a specific beer from Fuller's that isn't particularly representative of strong bitter as a whole.... (and that you'll likely only find in Fuller's pubs in London, and even then not in all of them)
I'm Shocked, shocked I tell you, to learn that the BJCP guidelines are not exactly accurate when it comes to style. Ain't the first time septics lose something in interpretation from across the pond. :rolleyes:
 
I'm Shocked, shocked I tell you, to learn that the BJCP guidelines are not exactly accurate when it comes to style. Ain't the first time septics lose something in interpretation from across the pond. :rolleyes:

There is no ESB in the style guidelines and I think they are fairly accurate. There is a ordinary bitter, best bitter, and strong bitter.

The problem is that the style is very loosely defined out of necessity, so there is a large amount of room for interpretation. In the US I tend to think An authentic bitter from the UK probably wouldn't score well because we are not used to that level of esters over here even though the guidelines do include them.
 
The 2008 BJCP guidelines has 8c ESB, but at least noted that it referred to a specific beer in the UK, the 2015 version has 11c Strong Bitter but the damage has been done.

The 2015 guidelines are a big improvement on the 2008 version but still for instance only think that mild can be dark and under 3.8% although they do mention some of the diversity in passing.
 
Decided I don't like the taste/character of brown malt. I've made 3-4 test batches and brown malt from 2 different sources. Confirmed it with a bottle of Samuel Smith Taddy Porter. It's just not for me. Guess I'll have to use Invert 3 or 4 and chocolate to do something similar. Any other suggestions for subbing out the brown malt are welcome.
 
You could try some/more amber malts then, they can also have a bit of variation.Won't be similar but will a fair amount of flavour
crisp - quite light and biscuity
fawcetts - much more strongly flavoured, with coffee notes
simpsons - in the middle


I think most people who like beers with brown malts like them better after they have aged at least 6 weeks or so. But if you didn't like it in the taddy porter then it might well not be for you! Fullers London Porter is another with brown malt, Simpsons I think, it could be another to try to confirm.
 
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