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English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

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jturman35

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It’s on my bucket list to visit and see Chelsea play at home. Also want to see Manchester United and Liverpool as well!
 

Gozie Boy

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It’s on my bucket list to visit and see Chelsea play at home. Also want to see Manchester United and Liverpool as well!
A "Beckham swerve" away from topic, but this reminded me when I was fortunate to see Chelsea at home against Sheffield in 1993 while living in London. My mates had a big pool to select the final score before the match. Sadly, I picked last, and the next "reasonable" score available in the table was 4-2 Sheffield. They laughed mightily at this American all afternoon (although Chelsea was losing badly), until Chelsea scored TWO useless consolation goals in the 86th and 87th minutes! I let them buy me some tasty English ales all evening while drowning their sorrows.
 

TheMadKing

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Question for you ladies and gentlemen...

Given the choice between these different maris otter malts, which one do you prefer and why?

Baird
Crisp
Crisp No. 19 (I think it'd different from their standard but not sure)
Muntons extra pale
Muntons Pale
Simpsons
Thomas Fawcett
 

ba-brewer

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I use and like crisp #19, as I think if has more of a biscuit aroma than the other maris otter I have tried. I get my malt from more beer and the Baird and Fawcett maris otter they carry seemed cleaner and close in flavor and aroma to the Great Western Pale Ale malt so don't see the point in paying a premium.

I don't always get biscuit from crisp#19 so it might a yeast dependent thing.
 
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bierhaus15

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Per favorite MO: If you've not tried the malt steep method, do it! It is by far the best and easiest method for determining malt character and the results are really surprising.

To the original question, after using floor malted MO (Crisp, Fawcett, Warminster) for years and paying a premium for it, I blind tasted a bunch of different UK malts via hot steep method and found the 1823 Bairds MO had the best mix of clean-malty and honied-biscuity flavors. Many of the other MO floor malts had a wet hay/mushroomy character that was really unpleasant. I now use three UK malts, 1823 MO, Simpsons GP, and Loughran's Irish Pale... great bready, toasty, full flavor...closest I've found to Pauls Mild Malt.

http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/the-hot-steep-method-step-by-step-instructions/
 

TheMadKing

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Per favorite MO: If you've not tried the malt steep method, do it! It is by far the best and easiest method for determining malt character and the results are really surprising.

To the original question, after using floor malted MO (Crisp, Fawcett, Warminster) for years and paying a premium for it, I blind tasted a bunch of different UK malts via hot steep method and found the 1823 Bairds MO had the best mix of clean-malty and honied-biscuity flavors. Many of the other MO floor malts had a wet hay/mushroomy character that was really unpleasant. I now use three UK malts, 1823 MO, Simpsons GP, and Loughran's Irish Pale... great bready, toasty, full flavor...closest I've found to Pauls Mild Malt.

http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/the-hot-steep-method-step-by-step-instructions/
Big thanks BH! I'll give the steep method a try

Is the Baird 1823 different from the standard Baird Maris Otter?

My LHBS carries "Baird Maris Otter" but I don't want to get the wrong thing
 
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bierhaus15

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It is different, part of their 1823 Heritage Collection. Not crazy different in flavor than their regular MO, but it is a bit more biscuity. Also, their 1823 Greenwich Crystal is also great stuff; almost like a crystal 75L and an amber malt combined. Toffee/caramel with a dry toasty flavor. Really makes a nice bitter.
 

Northern_Brewer

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Given the choice between these different maris otter malts, which one do you prefer and why?
Err - Warminster? :)

You'll see from my signature that I've currently conditioning what I've called "Unfair Endeavours with Otters", which happens to be a side-by-side test of different Otters. But it's completely unfair, as Muntons were giving away freebies at BrewCon London, and I happened to have some oldish Fawcett and not so oldish Warminster to hand. But it's been a not total success, not least because I underestimated how well hops (including Endeavour) survive in open packets outside the freezer, so...they're a bit hoppy. I've not had the final beers yet but you could definitely get an idea of where they were going. Yes freshness definitely helps, the Fawcett is nice, the Warminster is a little more complex, Muntons slightly reinforces my prejudice against the big East Anglian maltsters (count Crisp in with that). But we'll wait and see what the final beer is like.

It's worth remembering that the grain for Maris Otter is all controlled by one company, so there's not a huge difference between the source material, although Baird claim to select lower-nitrogen samples for their 1823 range. I think you can justify the difference between floor-malted and not, and between the big East Anglians and not, but after that it's probably a case of what you can get with the best freshness.

Crisp No. 19 (I think it'd different from their standard but not sure)
It's their premium, floor-malted one, now made at their HQ in Norfolk but formerly at their Gleneagles distilling maltings on Speyside.

Is the Baird 1823 different from the standard Baird Maris Otter?

My LHBS carries "Baird Maris Otter" but I don't want to get the wrong thing
1823 is their premium range, but since the price premium is only 10% or so even in the UK, I can imagine that the distinction gets blurred once you've added export costs, and even here I've seen 1823 being sold as simply Bairds.
 

TheMadKing

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Err - Warminster? :)

You'll see from my signature that I've currently conditioning what I've called "Unfair Endeavours with Otters", which happens to be a side-by-side test of different Otters. But it's completely unfair, as Muntons were giving away freebies at BrewCon London, and I happened to have some oldish Fawcett and not so oldish Warminster to hand. But it's been a not total success, not least because I underestimated how well hops (including Endeavour) survive in open packets outside the freezer, so...they're a bit hoppy. I've not had the final beers yet but you could definitely get an idea of where they were going. Yes freshness definitely helps, the Fawcett is nice, the Warminster is a little more complex, Muntons slightly reinforces my prejudice against the big East Anglian maltsters (count Crisp in with that). But we'll wait and see what the final beer is like.

It's worth remembering that the grain for Maris Otter is all controlled by one company, so there's not a huge difference between the source material, although Baird claim to select lower-nitrogen samples for their 1823 range. I think you can justify the difference between floor-malted and not, and between the big East Anglians and not, but after that it's probably a case of what you can get with the best freshness.



It's their premium, floor-malted one, now made at their HQ in Norfolk but formerly at their Gleneagles distilling maltings on Speyside.



1823 is their premium range, but since the price premium is only 10% or so even in the UK, I can imagine that the distinction gets blurred once you've added export costs, and even here I've seen 1823 being sold as simply Bairds.
Thanks for clarifying NB!

The reason I'm asking is because those are the options at my LHBS for 55lb bags that he has in stock.

I'm leaning toward the Baird based on these replies
 

lowtones84

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1943 Truman P2 from Ron's Bitter! book. A touch more attenuated. I blame having a longer, lower mash than planned, but I enjoy a nice dry beer anyhow. I was intrigued by the oats, not a typical addition, and not a high percentage in this recipe. 1 gallon in the poly, natural carbing a 2.5 gallon keg and trying out the Blowtie spunding valve. Sample was very nice. I can see myself putting back many pints of this soon.
20200206_191419.jpg
20200206_191434.jpg
 

shoreman

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Looks delicious.

I've been using those polypins with my beer engine and about to "tap" a stout this weekend that has been conditioning for a couple of weeks.

This is my second go at it but how have you been keeping the pressure from occupying the headspace in the polypin? or anyone that uses these? When you just have water in one of these (which I do to flush my beer engine), it collapses on itself and works great. When it is carb'ed, the c02 escapes into the headspace.

I added some books on top of my last one, but looking for a better setup.
 

lowtones84

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Looks delicious.

I've been using those polypins with my beer engine and about to "tap" a stout this weekend that has been conditioning for a couple of weeks.

This is my second go at it but how have you been keeping the pressure from occupying the headspace in the polypin? or anyone that uses these? When you just have water in one of these (which I do to flush my beer engine), it collapses on itself and works great. When it is carb'ed, the c02 escapes into the headspace.

I added some books on top of my last one, but looking for a better setup.
Thanks! The sample was very "classic" because the recipe called for some "Pacific" hops which would be interpreted as Cluster in the 1940's. The rest was EKG. Interesting that there are plenty of US and European continental ingredients at certain points in history.

I've never let the headspace bother me. Once it inflates I "chill" it (not really cold, more like cool) and enough co2 goes into solution for my tastes. I only gravity dispense though, no beer engine. How well does it work with the beer engine? The post below looks like: pretty well!
 

Brewdogbrew

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Hello Everyone,

If you were making a ESB style beer what would you choose for:
1.) Grains
2.) Hops
3.) Yeast

I am an all grain brewer and have not made a english style beer in a long time.

Cheers!
 

Silver_Is_Money

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lowtones84

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1916 Barclay Perkins X ale. Slightly higher FG than anticipated, but the sample was quite nice. 1 gallon cubitainer and (not pictured) a 3 gallon keg full. Also pictured 2 jars (unwashed) of now 3rd generation WLP007.
20200216_174959.jpg
20200216_175019.jpg
 

schmurf

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That's a great size for the container... I've only use, and seen, 15 liters containers where I live and it's a bit too big for my needs.
 

lowtones84

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If anybody finds a good recipe for Robinson's Old Tom, let me know. It's a brilliant old ale (or strong mild) clocking at 8.5%. I'd bet it's pretty much pale malt and some invert sugar, maybe a pinch of black malt, though. Some reviews, here: http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/robinsons-old-tom-cask/44577/

Overall, drinking here some of the best typically British beers apart from bitters and pale ales are milds. They tend to be 3.8%-4.5% abv around here, and they have some crystal or dark malts (chocolate or black malt), and almost every single time some darker invert sugar. They don't care much for hops.
If anybody finds a good recipe for Robinson's Old Tom, let me know. It's a brilliant old ale (or strong mild) clocking at 8.5%. I'd bet it's pretty much pale malt and some invert sugar, maybe a pinch of black malt, though. Some reviews, here: http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/robinsons-old-tom-cask/44577/

Overall, drinking here some of the best typically British beers apart from bitters and pale ales are milds. They tend to be 3.8%-4.5% abv around here, and they have some crystal or dark malts (chocolate or black malt), and almost every single time some darker invert sugar. They don't care much for hops.
Hey up JKaranka. Page 204 of the CAMRA book "Brew your own British Real Ale" shows the recipe for Robinson's Old Tom and over 100 more are documented there. The author is Graham Wheeler if you are interested in getting the book. You will be glad you did as there is much more useful information you can apply to your brewing projects.
 

Northern_Brewer

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Edd Mather

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I imagine @JKaranka may have found Old Tom at some point since April 2014 when asking that question, but if not Edd Mather has posted recipes direct from Robbies from 1899 and 1929 :

https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2019/10/how-do-all-to-very-helpfull-guys-at.html
https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2019/11/robinsons-of-stockport-old-tom-1929.html
Hi All ,
How do from Lancashire ,
The recipie for Robbinsons " Young Tom " is also upon the blog ! ,
Cheers All ,
Edd
 

Edd Mather

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I like Fawcett personally, but have only used that, Crisp, and Simpson's. No complaints from any of them, though.
Ey Up lowtones84 ,
I`ve used Thos Fawcett`s , Warminster , Bairds , Crisp and Weyermann malts in commercial breweries over here , personally I don`t like Munton`s .
My top favourites are , Fawcett`s and Warminster for pale and general extract malts , with their Adjuncts ( Malt & Cereal ) being damned good quality as well .
If you want good beer , use the best malt available ; There is NO substitute for quality .
Cheers ,
Edd
 

Edd Mather

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lowtones84

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If you want good beer , use the best malt available ; There is NO substitute for quality .
Cheers ,
Edd
Great blog!

Anyone have any info on Allsopp's Red Hand? Not even Ron has anything that I can see. Admittedly I just like the name, but after reading so much about the brewery and not finding ANY recipes I'm a little bummed. The gravities for a 1901 version are in one of his charts, but that's it. Pale malt, perhaps a dash of invert sugar, and IBUs from Goldings measured around 150 perhaps?
 

Edd Mather

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Hi lowtones84 ,
Thanks for the comments , appreciated .
As to the Samuel Allsopp & Sons Beers , I`ve only seen a brewing book from 1935 ( February - September )
https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2019/10/samuel-allsopp-sons-ltd-pale-ales.html .
On the IBU thing ; I`ve yet to see ANY BREWING RECORD with an overall IBU which works out that high , even the Allsopp`s
1935 Jubilee Ale : 1.141 OG , 15 % ABV , 90 IBU
https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2019/10/samuel-allsopp-sons-ltd-part-3-strong.html ; doesn`t get to that level . Based on the perameters of the IPA ( D , Not the running version ) from 1935 ,I`d suggest using the OG , then factor the % loss from the earlier version in terms of IBU by using the % of the gravity drop as a guideline to increase the IBU , and not just goldings as a copper hop , use as a finishing hop as well .
Cheers
Edd
 

lowtones84

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Thanks for the resources, that's more info than I've seen other places.

Other sources just calculate IBUs because they weren't in the brewing logs, especially 19th century. So the sources would just calculate based on -amount- of hops in the recipe, fully understanding that this is never accurate.
 

Edd Mather

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Thanks for the resources, that's more info than I've seen other places.

Other sources just calculate IBUs because they weren't in the brewing logs, especially 19th century. So the sources would just calculate based on -amount- of hops in the recipe, fully understanding that this is never accurate.
Cheers :cask:
 

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Err - Warminster? :)
+1. Years ago, I used to own a home brew shop here in the US. I sold floor-malted Warminster Maris Otter. A lot of it. I brewed a lot with it too. Getting my own ingredients at cost was one of the few benefits of owning a home brew shop. I certainly didn’t make any money.
 

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I brewed up an extra stout (70/20/10 Warminster floor malted MO, Flaked Barley, Roasted Barley) and an Irish Red (75% Chevallier, 10% wheat malt, 7.5" Crisp Light Crystal (45L), 5% amber, 2.5% roast barley). Both fermented with WLP004 (from a vial from April 2015).

Both have turned out quite tasty. The color on the Irish Red does not show well in the pic... in good light it has a nice amber hue.

Bottled some, and 1 gallon of each in to a cubitainer/polypin.


 

TheMadKing

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Question for folks conditioning in casks/firkins/pins/polypins

After racking to the serving vessel, do you condition it at warm temperature for a week or so to carbonate? or do you immediately drop to celler temp (55F) and allow it to carbonate/condition very slowly?

I've been doing a ton of internet searching on this and found many inconsistent answers, and even seen comments from some professional brewers claiming that 55F at 1atm of pressure gives you the proper carbonation level (which is patently false), so curious what you all think.
 
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