English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[DuncB]

I've got a bottle of Dark Star 2011 Dark Saison to try over the break.
Also the Yuletide ale recipe from Ken Shales book I brewed in 1995 when our son was born. Last tried it in 2016 on his 21st, it was beer but given more than 40% of it was sugar it's not that complex but is about 10% +.

I'm keener to try the Thomas Hardy clone even if it is a bit young at 6 months.

 

[Mutant]

Split 12 gallons (British Strong Ale) into three versions using WLP005, WLP013, and WLP023 (original recipe was WLP022 which isn't currently available). Mostly Maris Otter and Simpsons GP, with Target, EKG, and Challenger. IBU 55, SRM 8, OG 1.071. FG, respectively, 1.015, 1.013, and 1.013 - putting them all in the 8% range. Handed out some "green" uncleared bottles this week. The overall preference was WLP013, yet I do believe the original recipe with WLP022 was nicer. Hoping to crank up another 12-gallon batch next week using only WLP013, as we are expecting constant rain for 7+ days (totaling over 5"). At the ~8%, drinking and walking might even get you picked up by the police.

 

[Colindo]

@Mutant How would you describe the flavours that the three yeasts imparted? What was the biggest difference? I haven't used much White Labs yeast so far, so would like to get some more details. The closest I used so far is WY1028, which is said to be the same as WLP013.

 

[warx]

we are expecting constant rain for 7+ days (totaling over 5").

Same here (SF Bay Area). Luckily just casked three ales for xmas so enough to hunker down for a bit (David Heaths ESB, Fullers London Porter, and TT Landlord). Although, I can move my Anvil in the garage and leave a side door open and run a box fan pushing the steam out of the open door.
Re Yeast; I did buy my first White Labs - two packs of WLP002 last month but ended up using 1469 and 1968. Looking forward to trying it though. The 1469 came up a couple of points short on the Landlord. Not sure why. Still trying to find the best for copying some Adnams brews.

 

[Hanglow]

Not brewed any ale in ages due to various minor injuries and lack of time, so making do with some of the real stuff in a nice 17thC pub. Hawkshead bitter, well kept.

Happy crimbo everyone

 

[schmurf]

I've got a bottle of Dark Star 2011 Dark Saison to try over the break.
Also the Yuletide ale recipe from Ken Shales book I brewed in 1995 when our son was born. Last tried it in 2016 on his 21st, it was beer but given more than 40% of it was sugar it's not that complex but is about 10% +.

I'm keener to try the Thomas Hardy clone even if it is a bit young at 6 months.

I've got myself some bottles of Thomas Hardy Ale some weeks ago, got curious when you brewed a clone. Probably will wait some months to open them though.

 

[Colindo]

Still trying to find the best for copying some Adnams brews.

I found Wyeast 1335 to be an interesting yeast to work with. In an ale with 100% pale malt and only bittering hops it produced the flavours of crystal malt and spicy hoppiness. Would work well to boost those flavours in any beer, I'd guess. Can't say how accurate it is in reproducing Adnam's beers though, since I never had those in the UK and the bottles of Broadside you get in Germany are usually muted from bad storage. I just got a fresh bottle of Adnam's Southwold Bitter though, so might be able to say more in the next few days.

WY1335 also produced my only beer without any chill-haze from single infusion mash that I ever managed to make. Never got anything that clear without a more sophisticated mashing.

 

[kmarkstevens]

@warx In my blind taste tests, Imperial Pub always outperformed 002. In general, I find the Imperial versions to be "better" somehow.

That said, I have reconditioned yeast from a bottle of Fullers that Northern Brewer kindly brought to the pacific northwest. I'm behind in my brewing pipeline, but have a reconditioned Fullers vs Pub yeast off on my radar.

I *ahem* had a little issue with fermenter sanitation. Then I finally figured out I can put the Speidels in my dishwasher without soap, and these puppies can handle the heat and come out sanitized. Sometimes I prove I am an idiot.

 

[Mutant]

@Mutant How would you describe the flavours that the three yeasts imparted? What was the biggest difference? I haven't used much White Labs yeast so far, so would like to get some more details. The closest I used so far is WY1028, which is said to be the same as WLP013.

I will try my best to describe them as I've been drinking some today. When I taste test, I use 4 oz Pyrex measuring cups, and that is what I'm doing now.

WLP005 -given this batch came out at FG 1.015 (OG 1.071 for all), it is a bit sweeter than I'd prefer. It is a front-of-pallette sensation with more focus on the malt and the IBU 55 seems muted. I might want to use this for a slightly darker beer (these three are IBU 8) with more hops if I need to balance everything with the touch of sweetness that exists. Not sure if I could have left this batch ferment out longer to get it a bit drier and balanced. I just think the residual sweetness is taking away from enjoying this one. Not really any fruity tones.
WLP013 -this ended up at FG 1.012 or 1.013. This definitely carries the oakiness as described by White Labs. That is a big plus. This one seems to hold its head better. For this beer being IBU 55 and SRM 8, this seems to be the nicest balance of dryness/sweetness, malt, and hops.
WLP023 -this also ended up at FG 1.012 or 1.013, but it comes across as being a bit sweet. I think that is because the yeast is pushing very fruity esthers. This isn't bad, and may age out well. I think the way I'd want to balance this is with more IBUs to counter the sweetness that is probably just the fruity esthers.

Overall, I think White Labs nailed it on their descriptions - they are never sufficient, but the only way to know is to experiment with them.

Given that this recipe was originally using WLP022, all that I can remember of that batch from a couple of years ago was that it disappeared very fast. I submitted it to the 2020 Nationals (which were canceled). The SF Regional folks went ahead and did the "unofficial" judging during COVID. I was awarded a silver in the British Strong Ale category. One judge commented that he wanted a case. Everyone that had that WLP022 batch was impressed. Not sure what my score was, or the criticism. I just went to look at White Lab's description and they say 'slightly fruity and bready characters' which is likely why it balanced this beer so well. I'm wondering how mixing WLP022 and WLP013 would work out, as those two might be a good combo.

Hope this helps. I was hoping to crank out another 12 gallons this coming week, but I dread all the cleaning that comes with making beer. I am focused on a few competitions: Placer County California, California State Fair (if they have one), and Nationals. I only have two beers to submit. A 17% Eisbock made two years ago that has aged quite well, and one of the above (likely WLP013) if any of them clear in time.

 

[Mutant]

@warx In my blind taste tests, Imperial Pub always outperformed 002. In general, I find the Imperial versions to be "better" somehow.

That said, I have reconditioned yeast from a bottle of Fullers that Northern Brewer kindly brought to the pacific northwest. I'm behind in my brewing pipeline, but have a reconditioned Fullers vs Pub yeast off on my radar.

I *ahem* had a little issue with fermenter sanitation. Then I finally figured out I can put the Speidels in my dishwasher without soap, and these puppies can handle the heat and come out sanitized. Sometimes I prove I am an idiot.

Just wondering if you build up sufficient starter when using the WLP002 in comparison to the A09? If I underpitch (and sometimes overpitch), things don't turn out well.

 

[DuncB]

I've got a bottle of Dark Star 2011 Dark Saison to try over the break.
Also the Yuletide ale recipe from Ken Shales book I brewed in 1995 when our son was born. Last tried it in 2016 on his 21st, it was beer but given more than 40% of it was sugar it's not that complex but is about 10% +.

I'm keener to try the Thomas Hardy clone even if it is a bit young at 6 months.

Tried a bottle of the yuletide yesterday, no condition at all, but just softest pff as the lid was cracked off. Very clear, not much aroma, very drinkable, but no body to talk of but given the recipe not surprised.

 

[Miraculix]

Tried a bottle of the yuletide yesterday, no condition at all, but just softest pff as the lid was cracked off. Very clear, not much aroma, very drinkable, but no body to talk of but given the recipe not surprised.View attachment 808725

Wow, that's an old bottle!!

 

[tracer bullet]

I'm behind in my brewing pipeline, but have a reconditioned Fullers vs Pub yeast off on my radar.

Please do! And of course let us know what you think.

WLP013 -this ended up at FG 1.012 or 1.013. This definitely carries the oakiness as described by White Labs.

Just curious - would you guess this would be good, or not good, for a nut brown ale? Or, perhaps an Imperial Stout?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Only one way to find out...
I got some christmas gifts from the missus.

 

[Colindo]

I just got a fresh bottle of Adnam's Southwold Bitter though, so might be able to say more in the next few days.

Got it in front of me now. Best before 28 Feb 2023. The beer has a fresh citrus note when pouring, so was probably handled decently by the distributor. Definitely better than some German online shops I tried before.

The notes I remember from Wyeast 1335 are definitely there. Intense spicy hoppiness and enhanced malt flavour as if from crystal malt. Together they give a liquorice note, especially if you drink in big sips. So I would say the yeast is great for an Adnam's clone. I need to point out though that Adnam's use a twin strain yeast, where the second strain increases the attenuation, which Wyeast 1335 will not do. Maybe co-pitch with Nottingham.

I'm behind in my brewing pipeline, but have a reconditioned Fullers vs Pub yeast off on my radar.

I have this bottled in the basement right now. Wanted to do the exact same comparison and made hopped starters so I could use them for this after decanting. Unfortunately I'm late on my brewing and video schedule since the birth of my daughter in November, so it might be a while before I can report.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

The historic porter has been sitting ~5 weeks in the kitchen and are now to be cellared for a few months.
Had a sample just to be sure they were carbed about a week ago, tasted promising but will definitely need some age to smooth out a bit, it was not nearly as much roasty flavour as I had expected given the grain bill, so I guess the USians who would cry out loud seeing these types of grists have been proved wrong.
Should be ready to drink just about when we start to get some spring feeling up here in the cold north...

 

[kmarkstevens]

Just wondering if you build up sufficient starter when using the WLP002 in comparison to the A09? If I underpitch (and sometimes overpitch), things don't turn out well.

I usually build up starters.

As I wrote above, I've run several yeast offs by the local brew crew with triangle tests. Imperial versions have always come out on top. To be clear, Imperial are ex Wyeast employees, and their catalogue is more a yeast "greatest hits" than a broad offering.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

If you want to really brew like a brit you should build up a yeast bank of 2 yeasts you like together and mix them in the "pre-brew" starter for a house mix, as British brewery yeasts often are 2 or more strains.

 

[Colindo]

often

I fear that word is debatable. I know of Adnam's, Ringwood and Theakston. Any other?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I fear that word is debatable. I know of Adnam's, Ringwood and Theakston. Any other?

Timothy Taylor and Samuel Smith are likely multi-strains, Harvey's is confirmed to be. Fuller's yeast that Brits have gotten brewlab slopes of is reported as becoming "unstable" after a few generations, pointing towards a multi strain.
I think many of the surviving traditional breweries are using multi strain yeasts, that would explain why wyeast and whitelabs yeast reportedly sourced from the same breweries can exhibit diffrent properties, as if they were isolates of different components of a house culture.
But it gets tricky knowing which is which considering many newer breweries have saved old brewery cultures and how those have developed from the original...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I fear that word is debatable. I know of Adnam's, Ringwood and Theakston. Any other?

I'm struggling to think of any of the traditional family breweries that use a single strain. Even Fuller's who went down to a single strain when they moved to conicals in the 1970s, can now distinguish two genetic variants even if they are microbiologically indistinguishable.

As an aside, it looks like Wyeast and White labs selected different halves of the Adnams multistrain.

 

[Colindo]

@Erik the Anglophile

• Forgot about Harvey. I think they still use their original culture, i.e. it is more 1000 strains, rather than a twin strain.
• Fuller's used to be a triple strain up until 1970, they are using single strain now.
• Timothy Taylor uses a single strain, though I have not hard evidence for this one. I just believe it from the way they describe their yeast.
• I know no details about Samuel Smith.
• Edit: Just remembered Brakspear. They promote their double strain, believed to be WY1275+WY1882.

By the way, my point was that family breweries are dwindling and many of the new microbreweries are, as I believe, using single strains due to convenience.

 

[Colindo]

As an aside, it looks like Wyeast and White labs selected different halves of the Adnams multistrain.

I find it difficult to get WLP025, else I would compare. How sure are you about this? I read it elsewhere, but find the attenuation is far too close between the two.
Edit: The flavour description on the White Labs page matches quite exactly the flavour I got from WY1335...

Didn't know the stuff about Fuller's. So they keep repitching and do not "refresh" the yeast regularly?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

@Erik the Anglophile

• Forgot about Harvey. I think they still use their original culture, i.e. it is more 1000 strains, rather than a twin strain.
• Fuller's used to be a triple strain up until 1970, they are using single strain now.
• Timothy Taylor uses a single strain, though I have not hard evidence for this one. I just believe it from the way they describe their yeast.
• I know no details about Samuel Smith.
• Edit: Just remembered Brakspear. They promote their double strain, believed to be WY1275+WY1882.

By the way, my point was that family breweries are dwindling and many of the new microbreweries are, as I believe, using single strains due to convenience.

I got that, my point was more that for people wanting to emulate traditional British brewing, keeping a bank of 2 or more yeasts and mixing them for fermenting in a sort of "house blend" would probably be rather accurate for how it was, and in some cases, still is done.
I have settled on a 50/50 mix of Verdant and MJ M36 as my house blend, the mix brings some of the kiwi/pear flavours of the M36 and tame the apricot from Verdant a bit and results in just a nice "Englishness" to the ales, not sure I would get that using only one of them.

 

[Colindo]

@Erik the Anglophile Ah, I see. Yes, especially for historic brews you are absolutely correct.

But isn't M36 said to be a blend already, of M42 and M15, which are copies of Nottingham and Windsor?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Some say that, but I am not too sure. Others say it may be a Mauribrew yeast, looking at the yeast the grains look too uniform in color and size to suggest a mix to my eyes at least.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Although I plan to replace the M36 with m42 and introduce a third one, a domestic windsor like strain, for a blend intended for more neautral Scottish and Irish ales.
So m42+Verdant for English and m42+Brewly English for Scottish/Irish, this will give me three yeasts to manage instead of four.

 

[Miraculix]

@Erik the Anglophile Ah, I see. Yes, especially for historic brews you are absolutely correct.

But isn't M36 said to be a blend already, of M42 and M15, which are copies of Nottingham and Windsor?

I found it pretty clean, so if there is Windsor inside, then the amount is small. From my perspective, it looks like something diferent than these two.

 

[Miraculix]

Although I plan to replace the M36 with m42 and introduce a third one, a domestic windsor like strain, for a blend intended for more neautral Scottish and Irish ales.
So m42+Verdant for English and m42+Brewly English for Scottish/Irish, this will give me three yeasts to manage instead of four.

I am having troubles to get something British out of Verdant. It is a good or maybe even great yeast for anything american hop related, but at no point British. I like it and I brewed quite a lot of bitters with it, and just like you said, in the mix with Nottingham, it is even better for bitters. Otherwise, the fruit is taking over. But I am still not happy with this yeast for traditional British bitters. I found myself an old pack of Windsor in my fridge, I will use that one with Nottingham for my next bitter. Let's see how that goes. Otherwise, it will be liquid yeast again.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

@Miraculix
I am gonna do some tests with the Brewly yeast I used before, but together with MJ M42.
I have done some reading on the m42 and have some experience with it, it seems like a slightly more expressive Notty, reportedly throwing some nutty, orange peel and subtle phenolic flavours if fermented at 20c or warmer.
The Brewly's dark fruit and red berries was a bit much, but if those esters are tamed a bit by the m42, and I get some of that phenolic and estery flavour from it, the mix could very well produce a Norhern/Yorkshire-y flavour profile...