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It's spendy but i hate to say it, worth it. The thing is amazing and quality is unexpectedly good.
"you won't save money homebrewing"
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It's spendy but i hate to say it, worth it. The thing is amazing and quality is unexpectedly good.
Biggest bang for the buck are Imperial stouts and fruit sours. Retail IS can come in around 300/5 gallons or up to 600 for BA. Fruit sours can top 800/5gal depending what brewery/beer.I had a guy tell me today that I wouldn't save any money by home brewing, that it's more of a hobby.
At first I thought he may be right and then I thought that if it's kept pretty simple, I would be saving some dough.
Most "good beer" here runs about $10 a 6 pack ....if a 5 gallon kit runs $35 to $40 and up and I can get 2 cases, I would be saving some and having fun too!
It's less expensive for me to buy retail NEIPAs but isn't this part of the hobby? To enjoy your own?
rondemay
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That's super interesting! I'd love to check out that podcast.
It really depends on your situation though. A small community garden would be hard to do anything efficiently. I have a half acre on my family's farm that is dedicated to barley. Hops can be grown anywhere in abundance. Yeast is very easy to collect if you're not too picky. Water is collected from rain for the softer water, or well water for the hard stuff. Bottles are reusable forever, but caps are not, so caps are a cost unless you keg everything and naturally carbonate, which I would do by krausening.
The agriculture part, for me, is the simplest part of the process. Saving grain seed is about as easy as it gets and hops multiply beyond any usable amount. Yeast can be made and saved from the same barley by making a sourdough starter from the barley flour.
When brewing you'd have to save enough wort in a sealed container to pitch at high krausen and then immediately bottle or keg, this eliminates added sugars, however if you have a beehive you could always prime with honey.
anyways... you could make beer for damn near nothing.
Move to the UK and you can justify as much shiny SS as you want. For a craft ale in the shops you are looking at £2-2.50 per pint. In a pub more like £3.50-4. £5 is probably the base cost of a 10L batch of a simple (SMaSH etc) brew including dried yeast.
Yep, that's quite a bit more than my 10G brewbuilt kettle, cooler MLT, turkey fryer burner, 4 kegs, counterpressure bottle filler, chugger pump, hydra chiller, ATC refractometer, motorized cereal killer, freezer ferm chamber with inkbird controller, silicone hoses with quick connects and a couple big mouth bubblers. I don't count the kegerator because I had that before I got back into homebrewing and kegging homebrew.
I'm a bargain shopper though. Pretty much everything I buy is on sale and I look for bang for the buck.
I like to compare brewing to mowing the lawn. Sure i could pay somebody to do it but its something thats relaxing and my mower will pay for its self compared to a landscaper, if I don't count the time spent. It's like brewing i find it relaxing and would much rather mow the lawn than do my regular job, but i wouldn't want to make it my full-time job.
![Craft A Brew - Safale BE-256 Yeast - Fermentis - Belgian Ale Dry Yeast - For Belgian & Strong Ales - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [3 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51bcKEwQmWL._SL500_.jpg)
Dcpcooks
Well-Known Member
Is it possible to brew cheaper than buy commercial? Yes it’s possible. If you loose your mind and build out an all electric set up with conicals and a glycol chiller you’ll have to wait along time to hit break even. I lost my mind and I’m still waiting to get close to a break even but I wouldn’t trade it for a cheap beer tab. Brewing is way to much fun.
Last weekend my HBC got to pour at a local brew fest. I had my beer on tap right next to 30 craft breweries. You can’t buy that experience in a liquor store.
When I go to a brewery I bring a few bottles of beer and ask the staff to give me an honest opinion. I can’t tell you how much feed back I’ve gotten over the years. Good and bad but it’s helped me make better beers and make some good friendships as well. Last week a brewer asked me if I needed any base malt as he was putting in his grain order. When I went to pick up a few sac’s he handed me two containers of yeast and 2 lbs of galaxy and told me to bring him something dank. It’s a fun hobby. The key thing to remember is you don’t need to have bling to make great beer you only need to work hard and keep learning
Last weekend my HBC got to pour at a local brew fest. I had my beer on tap right next to 30 craft breweries. You can’t buy that experience in a liquor store.
When I go to a brewery I bring a few bottles of beer and ask the staff to give me an honest opinion. I can’t tell you how much feed back I’ve gotten over the years. Good and bad but it’s helped me make better beers and make some good friendships as well. Last week a brewer asked me if I needed any base malt as he was putting in his grain order. When I went to pick up a few sac’s he handed me two containers of yeast and 2 lbs of galaxy and told me to bring him something dank. It’s a fun hobby. The key thing to remember is you don’t need to have bling to make great beer you only need to work hard and keep learning
For most of us, brewing is a hobby and something we love doing. I look forward to my brew days very much. Like most hobbies and passions, we don’t worry too much about the cost. How much have you spent on golf? Or fixing up that car in the garage? I couldn’t tell you how much I’ve spent on scuba equipment.
The fact that I’m rewarded with tasty beer for my efforts is good enough for me. I love giving away beer to friends and coworkers. I dream of shiny stainless steel equipment, then go right back to my igloo cooler and beat up keggle. I try to fashion most of my own equipment to save a little here and there. But it’s by far my favorite hobby and something I’ll do well into old age.
The fact that I’m rewarded with tasty beer for my efforts is good enough for me. I love giving away beer to friends and coworkers. I dream of shiny stainless steel equipment, then go right back to my igloo cooler and beat up keggle. I try to fashion most of my own equipment to save a little here and there. But it’s by far my favorite hobby and something I’ll do well into old age.
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devilssoninlaw
Well-Known Member
I'll agree with most here that my goal was never just to save money. I would like to keep good beer at a minimal cost but I have a few other pastimes that certainly aren't cheap!!
Bicycles ( I have 5, with all the accutrements)
XC Skis ( Multiple pairs and waxing equipment)
Canoes ( 2 solos and 2 tandems with many carbon paddles)
Camping Equipment ( Tents, hammocks, sleeping bags and pads, backpacks, stoves, H20 filters)
Yeah not many things are cheap and I wouldn't fault anyone for spending money on what they enjoy doing!
Bicycles ( I have 5, with all the accutrements)
XC Skis ( Multiple pairs and waxing equipment)
Canoes ( 2 solos and 2 tandems with many carbon paddles)
Camping Equipment ( Tents, hammocks, sleeping bags and pads, backpacks, stoves, H20 filters)
Yeah not many things are cheap and I wouldn't fault anyone for spending money on what they enjoy doing!
Dunno about me but my friends and colleagues are certainly paying less for beer.
jack13
Well-Known Member
hahah...good point! I'm spending less; they are spending MUCH less!
50calshooter
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I save a ton of money. Including all the extra stuff like propane it cost me about 30 bucks to brew a five gallon batch. All grain w/mashing and sparging. I don’t buy in bulk. I don’t buy kits. I buy what I need for the batch. But, I built my system. Gauges and valves is all I bought.
You can make great beer with minimal toys as long as you take it seriously. How much you want to spend on gear is up to you.
All grain ingredients are dirt cheap especially if you buy bulk and repitch yeast. But that takes time.
Extract brewing is quite fast and needs less gear, but you'll pay more for ingredients.
You'll cut down the time expense by increasing your batch size. Without exaggeration, it takes me the same amount of time (about 6 hours) to brew 5 gallons, 10 gallons, 310 gallons, or 930 gallons.
Of course bigger batches mean more expensive equipment.
I made some excellent beers with an all-gravity three vessel (two kettles and a cooler) all-grain system sized for 5-10 gals with a 50' immersion chiller and swamp coolers that cost less than $1000 in its entirety. Only pump involved was a pond pump to push ice water through the chiller instead of tap water, and only needed that in the summer. Even used it commercially as a pilot system for a couple years (with the addition of a few Brew Jacket systems in lieu of swamp coolers because the then powers that be didn't wanna fork out for conicals tied into the glycol...).
Make that up with smaller things like a solid thermometer (Thermapen FTW), pH meter (can't go wrong with the Milwaukee MW102), stir plate, pure O2 system etc. before you start forking out on a fancy brewing system.
Now, the other factor is "I'll buy less beer if I brew at home" which I've found 100% not the case for me, or most others. A minority claim they no longer buy beer but not sure how much I believe that. "Research" is a thing.
All grain ingredients are dirt cheap especially if you buy bulk and repitch yeast. But that takes time.
Extract brewing is quite fast and needs less gear, but you'll pay more for ingredients.
You'll cut down the time expense by increasing your batch size. Without exaggeration, it takes me the same amount of time (about 6 hours) to brew 5 gallons, 10 gallons, 310 gallons, or 930 gallons.
Of course bigger batches mean more expensive equipment.
I made some excellent beers with an all-gravity three vessel (two kettles and a cooler) all-grain system sized for 5-10 gals with a 50' immersion chiller and swamp coolers that cost less than $1000 in its entirety. Only pump involved was a pond pump to push ice water through the chiller instead of tap water, and only needed that in the summer. Even used it commercially as a pilot system for a couple years (with the addition of a few Brew Jacket systems in lieu of swamp coolers because the then powers that be didn't wanna fork out for conicals tied into the glycol...).
Make that up with smaller things like a solid thermometer (Thermapen FTW), pH meter (can't go wrong with the Milwaukee MW102), stir plate, pure O2 system etc. before you start forking out on a fancy brewing system.
Now, the other factor is "I'll buy less beer if I brew at home" which I've found 100% not the case for me, or most others. A minority claim they no longer buy beer but not sure how much I believe that. "Research" is a thing.
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Ultimately, each brewer will have to decide for them self whether they're saving money or not. Even when you factor in time - because each brewer can decide for them self what their time is worth.
The real challenge I have for many brewers out there is how much money have you put towards equipment, tools, and toys without improving the quality of your beer? Many of us have reached the threshold where our beer hasn't improved but our disposable income and piqued interest has not been satisfied.
But it's a hobby - improving your process and collecting is a part of the fun... right?
The real challenge I have for many brewers out there is how much money have you put towards equipment, tools, and toys without improving the quality of your beer? Many of us have reached the threshold where our beer hasn't improved but our disposable income and piqued interest has not been satisfied.
But it's a hobby - improving your process and collecting is a part of the fun... right?
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devilssoninlaw
Well-Known Member
I've also discovered not to go around telling everyone that you're brewing beer. I always get the " Oh man, bring me a few, I'd love to try it".
From now on, I'm flying under the radar!!
From now on, I'm flying under the radar!!
I used to calculate cost of every beer I made by calculating what the retail cost would be to cover ingredients, equipment wear, and overhead based on a formula heard on the Food Network.
And most recipes came out at the same retail has craft beers.
So as long as you continue to dedicate the time and labor costs of making it.
You save money on every craft six pack you don’t buy.
If you want to save money over big producers like Miller or Bud, you’ll need to stick to Midwest Supplies “Simply Beer” recipes at $20 each.
But if you ever stop and leave the equipment unused in the basement and buy beer… economically speaking, you’re losing money every purchase.
And most recipes came out at the same retail has craft beers.
So as long as you continue to dedicate the time and labor costs of making it.
You save money on every craft six pack you don’t buy.
If you want to save money over big producers like Miller or Bud, you’ll need to stick to Midwest Supplies “Simply Beer” recipes at $20 each.
But if you ever stop and leave the equipment unused in the basement and buy beer… economically speaking, you’re losing money every purchase.
I’m around 125 batches in, and still haven’t bothered upgrading equipment from my first BIAB setup, which set me back around $80. I do have a kegerator and a fermentation chest freezer, but my total hard costs are well under $1000. An average 5g batch costs me $15-25 (although I can do an ordinary bitter for maybe $6-7), and I do it while gardening, baking, etc., so it absolutely saves me money. It’s not like if I decided not to brew I’d rush out and bill 6 more hours of time.
Brewernaut51
Well-Known Member
I'd say just on the beer alone most of us save money. Personally I think I'm closer to breaking even than saving money. More often than not I can brew a beer for half commercial price from a store. Even bigger savings vs a bar/brewpub. It's equipment upgrades, CO2, cleaners, etc that pushes me towards the break even range.
It's like any commercial brewery. You have an initial investment that takes time to pay for itself. Once it does you're often likely to expand/upgrade to meet needs/demands just like a commercial brewery. That's why their beer costs so much compared to ingredients.
The biggest savings for me usually come from cloning those expensive big aged beers like Founder's barrel aged series. That stuff costs 25 bucks or more for a 4 pack but I can brew 5gal for a fraction of what I'd spend on 2 cases of KBS or whatever. Maybe the folks laughing at the idea of saving money aren't thinking of beers like that?
It's like any commercial brewery. You have an initial investment that takes time to pay for itself. Once it does you're often likely to expand/upgrade to meet needs/demands just like a commercial brewery. That's why their beer costs so much compared to ingredients.
The biggest savings for me usually come from cloning those expensive big aged beers like Founder's barrel aged series. That stuff costs 25 bucks or more for a 4 pack but I can brew 5gal for a fraction of what I'd spend on 2 cases of KBS or whatever. Maybe the folks laughing at the idea of saving money aren't thinking of beers like that?
the cost of equipment even for basic brew in a bag stuff does add up. but i view it as not a consumable so it could be used by my wife for jelly and such so it will not go to waste. I started brewing because the beer the closest brewery makes seems light/watery to me. Does not have enough bitter or else not enough mouthfeel.
As to kits, some of the places have been having 5 gallon extract kits on sale three for $60. not bad when 5 gallons of beer costs $20. I dont think it includes the price of the yeast.
As to kits, some of the places have been having 5 gallon extract kits on sale three for $60. not bad when 5 gallons of beer costs $20. I dont think it includes the price of the yeast.
Numsquat
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I know I'm saving money comparing 1/6 barrel commercial kegs to homebrew cornies. I brew 10gal batches. My wife loves her IPA's, I like them but like a much wider variety of styles. So I have one tap to buy commercial kegs (1/6b) that pretty much is for commercial IPA's ($88 to $120) for my wife which keeps her happy. My average cost for 10g batch homebrew is around $55 for the beers I like to drink/pretty much brew. This will go up a little since I moved to Florida from NW Iowa, used to be able to drive 3 hours north and get Rahr 50lb bags for less than $30 and buy $210+ at a time but even if I'm spending $88 for a 10g batch, it's still half price of commercial kegs here in Florida. Each batch I do calculate my total cost, even water, gas, electricity, ect that may only be pennies on average. Somethings may be estimates but I don't care.
I don't figure in my time for my cost but do figure everything else it takes to brew that batch. People who figure in their time and aren't professional brewers are idiots because then it's a hobby, not a profession. I cater BBQ and I add in my labor time. When I use to compete in the KCBS (still a KCBS judge) I didn't add my contest time as an expense until I started catering (because of competing for fun versus competing for advertising). Seriously, do people figure their hourly wage into mowing their yard or similar activities.
Another important fact for me is that I can't get some styles I may want around here (bottle, can or keg) that I like. I love me some Kolsh but I can only get some (commercially and then seasonally) from a local brewery (local as in 30 minutes away) or some Alt which no one has around here (use to get in Minnesota though) so I brew my own which has no cost comparison. So availability plays into the cost issue.
I don't figure in my time for my cost but do figure everything else it takes to brew that batch. People who figure in their time and aren't professional brewers are idiots because then it's a hobby, not a profession. I cater BBQ and I add in my labor time. When I use to compete in the KCBS (still a KCBS judge) I didn't add my contest time as an expense until I started catering (because of competing for fun versus competing for advertising). Seriously, do people figure their hourly wage into mowing their yard or similar activities.
Another important fact for me is that I can't get some styles I may want around here (bottle, can or keg) that I like. I love me some Kolsh but I can only get some (commercially and then seasonally) from a local brewery (local as in 30 minutes away) or some Alt which no one has around here (use to get in Minnesota though) so I brew my own which has no cost comparison. So availability plays into the cost issue.
It depends on how and what you brew. A 750 mL of imported Belgian beer will set you back $10+ stateside, whereas you can find BMC for less than $0.50 per can. I don’t pretend to make amazing beer, but it’s at least comparable to your average craft beer dispensary, and much more economical...
Grains (10 lb @ $1.15/lb) - $11.50
Yeast (Wyeast or White Labs) - $8.00
Hops (4 oz @ $1.25/oz) - $6.00
Water (8 gal RO @ $0.39/gal) - $3.20
Electric (8 kWh @ $0.12/kWh) - $0.96
= <$30 / 5 gal ~ $0.55 / beer
I realize that the savings from making my own beer is paltry compared to the $3k+ I’ve sunk into my game, but I’m inclined to believe that my brewing choices are far more open than my choices as a consumer. And that’s a price I’m willing to put a premium on.
Grains (10 lb @ $1.15/lb) - $11.50
Yeast (Wyeast or White Labs) - $8.00
Hops (4 oz @ $1.25/oz) - $6.00
Water (8 gal RO @ $0.39/gal) - $3.20
Electric (8 kWh @ $0.12/kWh) - $0.96
= <$30 / 5 gal ~ $0.55 / beer
I realize that the savings from making my own beer is paltry compared to the $3k+ I’ve sunk into my game, but I’m inclined to believe that my brewing choices are far more open than my choices as a consumer. And that’s a price I’m willing to put a premium on.
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devilssoninlaw
Well-Known Member
I've always wondered about this one.....why breweries charge you twice as much to sip a pint of suds at their establishment.
When I could save money by having them bottle it, pay a distributer, let the retailer make his cut and I only pay half as much.
They use the same equipment and facility, and they get to re-use the mug.Now I know why I don't hang out in the bars or breweries.
Murphys_Law
Well-Known Member
I have 2 or 3 buckets and 2 fermonsters but I’m now looking at the SS Brew Bucket BME “just because”.
This is why I’ll never save money as a home brewer.
This is why I’ll never save money as a home brewer.
Just bought one. Pull the trigger
I've always wondered about this one.....why breweries charge you twice as much to sip a pint of suds at their establishment.
When I could save money by having them bottle it, pay a distributer, let the retailer make his cut and I only pay half as much.
Now I know why I don't hang out in the bars or breweries.
Because they have to add Bartenders, Servers, etc to the picture.
Cost per beer for Bar Staff is going to be much higher than cost per beer for distributors.
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devilssoninlaw
Well-Known Member
....and I thought they worked for tips!
I've also discovered not to go around telling everyone that you're brewing beer. I always get the " Oh man, bring me a few, I'd love to try it".
From now on, I'm flying under the radar!!
Hah totally feel you on that one, when I first got into the hobby I talked about it a lot. Now? When I make a great beer I try to be as hush about it as possible
Though I do give away some of my beers when I need to bottle another batch and I have a bottle shortage going on lol. Usually easy to do by passing a 6 pack to a friend I know who willl easily kill it in a couple days and is good about returning the bottles
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Mer-man
Well-Known Member
I have a pretty simple setup but I don't skimp on ingredients.
Don't give a monk's behind if it's cost effective because knowing my hourly rate, prob not. It's about the joy of creating something tasty...
And sharing that with people.
Don't give a monk's behind if it's cost effective because knowing my hourly rate, prob not. It's about the joy of creating something tasty...
And sharing that with people.
Mer-man
Well-Known Member
I've always wondered about this one.....why breweries charge you twice as much to sip a pint of suds at their establishment.
When I could save money by having them bottle it, pay a distributer, let the retailer make his cut and I only pay half as much.
Now I know why I don't hang out in the bars or breweries.
Shut up or those 7000 taprooms are going under next month!
user 40839
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I just ran the numbers. Pun intended, sobering reading.
I am currently up to about $7,500 or so in equipment. Brutus 10 clone with pumps, burners, solenoids, fittings, hoses, etc... about $2,000. New Spike kettles to replace my keggles for Christmas, about $750. Two SS Brewtech BME Chronicals with all the heating and cooling stuff, about $2,000. Glycol chiller, $1,000. Keezer build with taps, etc., about $1,000. Then another $750 or so in various bits - cornies, mill, other equipment, etc. That's what's in the brewery now - doesn't include stuff that I've used in the past and since sold on. (Keggles, cooler tun, etc.)
I've done about 50 batches in my homebrewing career, spanning about 8 years. (Am currently coming back from a three year hiatus, couldn't find the free time with a new daughter). Ingredients for an average 10 gallon batch runs me about $35. So my 50 batches has set me back $1,750 in ingredients. That's a grand total of $9,250 spent to garner 500 gallons of beer. 64,000 ounces. That equates to 5,333 beers. So $1.73 a beer, or $10.38 a six pack - which is about what the going rate for a decent sixer of IPA is.
So on the surface, could say that "nope, haven't really saved anything." But.
I've made some great friends who are brewers. (Notably @Ricand if he's still about on here!). I got to learn and grow - built the brewstand myself, learning to weld stainless. I've built kegerators that people have offered me money for. And I've had the pleasure of having many other friends taste my beer, look shocked, and say "Holy ****, you MADE THIS?!?!? This is AMAZING!!!" My brewing has progressed from that first partial extract kit I bought with a buddy, through all grain batches with a turkey fryer and an igloo cooler with copper manifold and cheap brass fittings, to what I have now. And my beer has progressed from people tasting it, making a face and saying "It's not bad" to me being able to say without any bragging, that it's as good as you can buy in any store. (Well, most stores!)
And even if I woke up in the morning and said "Nah, finished with all this", I could put all my gear up for sale and likely I'd be talking about less than a dollar a beer.
Instead, I'll keep on brewing for myself and my friends - and with the gear already there I just worry about ingredients. Which, like I said, is about $35 a batch. 33 cents a beer. 33 cents a damn GOOD beer.
I'm alright with that.
I am currently up to about $7,500 or so in equipment. Brutus 10 clone with pumps, burners, solenoids, fittings, hoses, etc... about $2,000. New Spike kettles to replace my keggles for Christmas, about $750. Two SS Brewtech BME Chronicals with all the heating and cooling stuff, about $2,000. Glycol chiller, $1,000. Keezer build with taps, etc., about $1,000. Then another $750 or so in various bits - cornies, mill, other equipment, etc. That's what's in the brewery now - doesn't include stuff that I've used in the past and since sold on. (Keggles, cooler tun, etc.)
I've done about 50 batches in my homebrewing career, spanning about 8 years. (Am currently coming back from a three year hiatus, couldn't find the free time with a new daughter). Ingredients for an average 10 gallon batch runs me about $35. So my 50 batches has set me back $1,750 in ingredients. That's a grand total of $9,250 spent to garner 500 gallons of beer. 64,000 ounces. That equates to 5,333 beers. So $1.73 a beer, or $10.38 a six pack - which is about what the going rate for a decent sixer of IPA is.
So on the surface, could say that "nope, haven't really saved anything." But.
I've made some great friends who are brewers. (Notably @Ricand if he's still about on here!). I got to learn and grow - built the brewstand myself, learning to weld stainless. I've built kegerators that people have offered me money for. And I've had the pleasure of having many other friends taste my beer, look shocked, and say "Holy ****, you MADE THIS?!?!? This is AMAZING!!!" My brewing has progressed from that first partial extract kit I bought with a buddy, through all grain batches with a turkey fryer and an igloo cooler with copper manifold and cheap brass fittings, to what I have now. And my beer has progressed from people tasting it, making a face and saying "It's not bad" to me being able to say without any bragging, that it's as good as you can buy in any store. (Well, most stores!)
And even if I woke up in the morning and said "Nah, finished with all this", I could put all my gear up for sale and likely I'd be talking about less than a dollar a beer.
Instead, I'll keep on brewing for myself and my friends - and with the gear already there I just worry about ingredients. Which, like I said, is about $35 a batch. 33 cents a beer. 33 cents a damn GOOD beer.
I'm alright with that.
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