"you won't save money homebrewing"

[AZCoolerBrewer]

If I have more than $1500 invested in my poverty biab setup I’d be really surprised. Even if it was 2k with bulk grain buys and bulk hops sales and reclaimed yeast I’m making 5 gals of simple delicious beers for $12-$15 per 5 gallon batch. Consider the cost of two 30packs of labattes is $40 and I can brew a pale ale that will taste better for $13/14 that will be really damn good and get 53 beers. That’s 1.3$ per beer buying vs .26 cents per brewing. I’m saving a buck a beer. After 25 kegs or 125 gallons it is now cheaper to make beer because my equipment is paid for. That’s using cheap store bought beer most people who would say” you don’t save any money” would be drinking anyways. When you move into hoppy ipas and stouts , Oktoberfest, winter the savings go up compared to commercial. I’ve hit the point where people actually keep drinking my beer instead of drink one to be polite and go back to cans. Essentially I’m making good beer for cheap.

In your example it takes 70 batches or 351 gallons to make back your $1500. I’ve ran the numbers on equipment and in my opinion $1500 dollars is not reasonable for the kind of equipment you would need to make that much beer.

The margins in craft beer would be better, but your costs would also go up. Using your numbers it would take around 150 gallons to break even.

Even though this would be a labor of love, that much beer would be a lot of work. I figure around 100 - 200 hours. I really don’t think you can completely discount that amount of time, unless time is to you a not valuable resource.

 

[bpgreen]

Let’s see the breakdown on your 3K saved a year. That means you would have to drink around 20 beers a day by my numbers. Its reasonable to make beer at $10 a twelver if you keep it simple. For comparable beer where I live that would cost you $15 dollars a twelve pack. 3K saved is 72K beers divided by 365 days = 19.7 beers a day. Even if you could manage $5 a twelve pack, that’s still 10 beers a day. Not saying it isn’t done, but at that rate you would hit your 200 gallons in 3.4 months.

It costs you $10/12 pack to make beer? That's almost $45 for a 5 gallon batch. There are probably kits in that range, but I make my own recipes. I also buy in bulk and grow my own hops. And I often reuse yeast. A 5 gallon batch usually costs me around $15-$20.

I recently switched from partial mash to all grain after buying the mash and boil. Even if i get poor efficiency, it'll still pay for itself compared with extract.

For a long time, I tracked every purchase. Even accounting for things like my kegerator, my home brew is cheaper than what I could buy in the store. Since I live in Utah, I should clarify that my beer costs less than the 3.2 beer (4% abv) I can get at the grocery store.

 

[bpgreen]

It costs you $10/12 pack to make beer? That's almost $45 for a 5 gallon batch. There are probably kits in that range, but I make my own recipes. I also buy in bulk and grow my own hops. And I often reuse yeast. A 5 gallon batch usually costs me around $15-$20.

I recently switched from partial mash to all grain after buying the mash and boil. Even if i get poor efficiency, it'll still pay for itself compared with extract.

For a long time, I tracked every purchase. Even accounting for things like my kegerator, my home brew is cheaper than what I could buy in the store. Since I live in Utah, I should clarify that my beer costs less than the 3.2 beer (4% abv) I can get at the grocery store.

I concede that I'm not including my time. I'm having fun brewing so I don't add the time as a cost.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

It costs you $10/12 pack to make beer? That's almost $45 for a 5 gallon batch. There are probably kits in that range, but I make my own recipes. I also buy in bulk and grow my own hops. And I often reuse yeast. A 5 gallon batch usually costs me around $15-$20.

I recently switched from partial mash to all grain after buying the mash and boil. Even if i get poor efficiency, it'll still pay for itself compared with extract.

For a long time, I tracked every purchase. Even accounting for things like my kegerator, my home brew is cheaper than what I could buy in the store. Since I live in Utah, I should clarify that my beer costs less than the 3.2 beer (4% abv) I can get at the grocery store.

Sure, I was illustrating from a reasonable high cost to a reasonable low cost. The low costs on this thread being bandied about don’t include many hidden costs like CO2, Starsan, PBW, electricity for both brewing and fermentation, driving to the LHBS to pick up your stuff or shipping if you have it mailed. Any number of other things that we discount out of hand when we have these discussions. ABV is certainly another variable and it makes it difficult to compare apples to apples.

All I’m saying is what the OP says. If it is solely your intent to save money brewing your then you can do it, but if you do it the regular way, the way most brewers in the hobby are doing it then you aren’t going to be saving any money.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I serum concede that I'm not including my time. I'm having fun brewing so I don't add the time as a cost.

One can’t choose to discount your time, even if you enjoy the hobby, the time is an opportunity cost. We are taking about cost and those little dollar signs don’t rest when you do. You are either wrangling them up a penny at a time or the little buggers are jumping out of your pocket never to be seen again.

 

[Bamos6928]

My problem is that I buy just as much craft beer as I ever did. Gotta stock up on bottles and get inspiration somewhere.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

My problem is that I buy just as much craft beer as I ever did. Gotta stock up on bottles and get inspiration somewhere.

That’s fine, since you enjoy the craft beer, that money doesn’t count as part of the cost. ;P

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

In your example it takes 70 batches or 351 gallons to make back your $1500. I’ve ran the numbers on equipment and in my opinion $1500 dollars is not reasonable for the kind of equipment you would need to make that much beer.

The margins in craft beer would be better, but your costs would also go up. Using your numbers it would take around 150 gallons to break even.

Even though this would be a labor of love, that much beer would be a lot of work. I figure around 100 - 200 hours. I really don’t think you can completely discount that amount of time, unless time is to you a not valuable resource.

Not sure quite how you get to 70 batches to pay off $1500 if you are using a contribution margin of $1/beer, 53 beers per batch, per NW's assumptions.

 

[augiedoggy]

Let’s see the breakdown on your 3K saved a year. That means you would have to drink around 20 beers a day by my numbers. Its reasonable to make beer at $10 a twelver if you keep it simple. For comparable beer where I live that would cost you $15 dollars a twelve pack. 3K saved is 72K beers divided by 365 days = 19.7 beers a day. Even if you could manage $5 a twelve pack, that’s still 10 beers a day. Not saying it isn’t done, but at that rate you would hit your 200 gallons in 3.4 months.

I dont know why it costs more where you live but I brew all grain and buy everything as my local brew store and I can brew 11 gallons of many beer styles for around $45-50... that brings a twelve pack closer to $6-7.. just saying. I get what your saying about time spent driving for supplies and such but thats really a wash as you have to do the same if you buy the beer and then deal with cleaning and returning the empties for deposit..

there are many folks who keep it simple with a propane/cooler setup who do save themselves money and spend thier time more enjoyably doing it.. Lets face it, many people have extra time they would spend on less productive things why not spend it on a hobby like others do? just like we enjoy spending all that excess time here at least with this vs something like golf you come away with SOMETHING to show for your time and effort including the knowledge a person gains.

 

[augiedoggy]

One can’t choose to discount your time, even if you enjoy the hobby, the time is an opportunity cost. We are taking about cost and those little dollar signs don’t rest when you do. You are either wrangling them up a penny at a time or the little buggers are jumping out of your pocket never to be seen again.

Your right only we should ADD the value of the time doing a hobby someone enjoys... Just like people pay to participate in other hobbies like golfing or going to a sporting event or cooking class or even see a movie. In reality the more important equation is if your spending your time enjoyably or not .. you only have one life to live and the money does you no good without the time to spend it enjoyably (on things one enjoys like say homebrewing)..

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

One can’t choose to discount your time, even if you enjoy the hobby, the time is an opportunity cost. We are taking about cost and those little dollar signs don’t rest when you do. You are either wrangling them up a penny at a time or the little buggers are jumping out of your pocket never to be seen again.

There's only opportunity cost if you'd otherwise be earning money instead of brewing. I brew on the weekends and would not be earning money if I weren't brewing. I'd probably be sailing, golfing, playing guitar or watching tv. There's no opportunity cost for me and there's a good chance I'd be spending money.

I imagine this is true for the vast majority of us.

 

[augiedoggy]

And then there's And then there's guys like me that took that home brewing experience and decided to make some money with it by opening a brew pub So I can actually be making money while brewing at the same time Although I'm not expecting to get rich

 

[beersk]

I didn't start homebrewing to save money (well, not completely). I really like NEIPAs and the best local source is Toppling Goliath at $10/bomber. I was also spending money trading for and buying Trillium, Tree House, etc. Between hassles getting it and the cost, I decided to get back into homebrewing and brew my own figuring I could brew stuff that was just as good. I still drink some commercial beer, but I'm about 90% homebrew.

Let's look at some math:

With my wife and I going through one or two bombers a day on average (I figured 1.5/day), that's almost $5500/year.

Brewing the same style beer, I save a ton. I get my base grains for $25/50lb bag (50 cents/lb) in our twice anually club grain buy. I buy hops in bulk. I overbuild starters and reuse yeast. I'm figuring a 5 gallon keg is costing me around $30 for the equivalent of about 20 bombers. At the same consumption rate, that's in the neighborhood of $500-600 year or a savings of over $4000

Even if I buy $1000 worth of gear/year, I'm easily coming out ahead. I didn't really think about it until now because we don't keep super tight grasp of our cash flow, but anecdotally it does feel like we've been spending less the last year.

My case is different from most because I was buying really expensive beer and we have two people drinking that expensive beer, but when you buy in bulk you can really bring the price down pretty cheap. Not Budweiser cheap, but who wants to brew that stuff?

All that being said, I love brewing and I brew great beer (even if I do say so myself). I look forward to brew days and love planning new recipes. I have ready access to beer I love. Saving money is just gravy really.

If you can find it, check out Tank Puncher by ReUnion. They're out of Coralville, IA. Good chit, mang.



On the topic of brewing to save money - I think that if you ONLY drink your own beer and no commercial beer, then you would likely save money, especially if you had a cheap n' easy brew system. But I, like most of us, also like to buy commercial beer to change it up when I'm tired of my own beer. There is no saving money in the hobby of being a beer enthusiast.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

If you can find it, check out Tank Puncher by ReUnion. They're out of Coralville, IA. Good chit, mang.



On the topic of brewing to save money - I think that if you ONLY drink your own beer and no commercial beer, then you would likely save money, especially if you had a cheap n' easy brew system. But I, like most of us, also like to buy commercial beer to change it up when I'm tired of my own beer. There is no saving money in the hobby of being a beer enthusiast.

A couple things: first, I've had Tank Puncher...tasty. They have really upped their game since they first opened. I had a BA stout from them called Imperial Banshee that was really good too.

Also, related to your variety comment. I don't keep a strictly continuous pipeline, so I end up drinking some other stuff in between batches if I run out before the next is ready. I also go to beer fests from time to time (Smells like a beer fest and Great taste so far this year). I also try different stuff when I go out or travel as well. I had some great stouts from Epic in Utah (Triple Barrel Baptist and Big Bad Baptista) recently.

I'm in a group that does shares periodically, where we have some killer beers.

Also, this year I'm on a "Wheel of styles" kick where I'm brewing a bunch of different styles. I started brewing with my favorite styles: NEIPA and big, smooth stouts. This year I decided to mix it up more. I've brewed a blonde ale and a porter (I keep brewing NEIPA's and stouts intermixed). I'm planning a pilsner, a peach Hefe, an imperial dry hopped cali common, a fruited berliner weisse, Saison and a dopple bock.

Between the fests, the times when I'm out and about, and the variety I'm brewing, that's a lot of variety without going to the store and it keeps the brewing fresh and interesting.

 

[jack13]

There's only opportunity cost if you'd otherwise be earning money instead of brewing.

Agreed. It's leisure time....would you factor in "your time" when calculating the cost of a vacation? (unless you're specifically taking time off to take the trip and you wouldn't have taken that time off and stayed home.). To what extent a leisure activity outwardly appears to be labor is totally irrelevant.

 

[Blazinlow86]

There's only opportunity cost if you'd otherwise be earning money instead of brewing. I brew on the weekends and would not be earning money if I weren't brewing. I'd probably be sailing, golfing, playing guitar or watching tv. There's no opportunity cost for me and there's a good chance I'd be spending money.

I imagine this is true for the vast majority of us.

Dead on. I was gonna say the same thing. If you take time off work to brew than that time could be worked into the cost. My brew days would have literally been spent on the couch. I usually brew 1 18gal batch every 2nd weekend which allows me to keep 6-8 different beers on tap. I buy everything in bulk whick works out to about .50 cents a beer compared to 2.00$ + at the liquor store. Admittedly I've probably got close to 10g in equipment but that's not required and I figure I could resell it at a later date and get half my money back. Maybe another key point to consider is to make your money back you have to brew most of the beer you drink. I only spend about 100$ a year now on store bought stuff.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Not sure quite how you get to 70 batches to pay off $1500 if you are using a contribution margin of $1/beer, 53 beers per batch, per NW's assumptions.

At 60 beers of Lablatts at $40 dollars is .50 cents a beer more than .26 not a dollar. One other thing to consider about equipment is that it isn’t truly a fixed cost. When it takes 2 years to pay off equipment things break, get old, become obsolete. Additionally, looking into my crystal ball says that the price for grain may be different 2 years from now.

 

[bleme]

Additionally, looking into my crystal ball says that the price for grain may be different 2 years from now.

Have you noticed how much craft beer prices have gone up in the last 2 years? I don't see ingredient prices going up nearly as fast.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Agreed. It's leisure time....would you factor in "your time" when calculating the cost of a vacation? (unless you're specifically taking time off to take the trip and you wouldn't have taken that time off and stayed home.). To what extent a leisure activity outwardly appears to be labor is totally irrelevant.

Substantially, going on vacation vs. brewing, you can heavily discount your time and depending how you brew the cost to spend your time could be a savings. But I would submit that for the majority of brewers, the cost of sitting and watching TV is substantially less than brewing. The cost of your time is what a business calls overhead. Leisure time in your life isn’t compulsory and most of us pay dearly for it. It is worth something in actual dollars. If it wasn’t, companies would not provide paid time off as a benefit. Depending on lifestyle, your free time can be worth more or less. I can choose to ignore that I spent money on my credit card, but at some point I have to go back to work to pay for my time off. If cost of leisure time is irrelevant, then we’d all quit our jobs tomorrow. If you live in your mom’s basement, you might have a point.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Have you noticed how much craft beer prices have gone up in the last 2 years? I don't see ingredient prices going up nearly as fast.

My crystal ball says we will get better ingredients for less in the future. All I’m saying is that to really answer the question of cost, you can’t be cavalier about what you don’t consider. If I seem zealous about that it’s just that I get excited about Truth and when talking numbers it seems like truth is simple. I’m not invested in this topic particularly, it’s just that it is this type of topic that is deeply intertwined with truth finding processes.

 

[jack13]

My crystal ball says we will get better ingredients for less in the future. All I’m saying is that to really answer the question of cost, you can’t be cavalier about what you don’t consider. If I seem zealous about that it’s just that I get excited about Truth and when talking numbers it seems like truth is simple. I’m not invested in this topic particularly, it’s just that it is this type of topic that is deeply intertwined with truth finding processes.

Far out.

 

[bleme]

My crystal ball says we will get better ingredients for less in the future. All I’m saying is that to really answer the question of cost, you can’t be cavalier about what you don’t consider. If I seem zealous about that it’s just that I get excited about Truth and when talking numbers it seems like truth is simple. I’m not invested in this topic particularly, it’s just that it is this type of topic that is deeply intertwined with truth finding processes.

Crystal balls, or any other method of predicting the future, is about as far away from the Truth as you can get.

The TRUTH is that if I sit on the couch, I get paid nothing.

The TRUTH is that if I spend that time brewing instead, I can cancel the cable and save $100/month without even considering how much I am saving on beer. If you consider every little aspect, where does it stop?

If you charge yourself to sleep, that is all fine and dandy for you but you can't go around forcing other people to pay themselves too.

 

[GPP33]

I certainly save money, I can fill a keg for about $30-$50 or I could buy a keg from a local brewery for about $100 to $120. I’ve brewed enough to pay off the equipment investments I’ve made, I however can’t say I’m really money ahead though. Not only have I drank a lot more beer but by taking the time to brew I’ve also missed out on a lot of billable hours which would have earned me significantly more than I save by brewing. Of course on the other side of the coin is the money saved on therapy, brewing keeps me out of the mad house.

 

[Rodent]

brewing keeps me away from the in-laws. that one small feat pays for itself many, many times over ...

- no bail bonds
- no lawyer fees
- no missed days at work (read: unpaid time off) due to being in jail
- no medical bills

need I dig deeper into this hole? I think not

 

[brewbama]

brewing keeps me away from the in-laws. that one small feat pays for itself many, many times over ...

- no bail bonds
- no lawyer fees
- no missed days at work (read: unpaid time off) due to being in jail
- no medical bills

need I dig deeper into this hole? I think not

Touché

 

[Lefou]

To me, it was never really about the money. That's what a job is for.
For me, brewing is more about the creative utilization of leisure time and getting something good out of it. Getting a good beer is the cherry on top of a fun learning process. I've pretty much written the dollar costs off and work out of brewing and concentrated on just enjoying myself and the final results.
How much have I spent? Not enough .... hee hee hee

 

[PADave]

To me, it was never really about the money. That's what a job is for.
For me, brewing is more about the creative utilization of leisure time and getting something good out of it. Getting a good beer is the cherry on top of a fun learning process. I've pretty much written the dollar costs off and work out of brewing and concentrated on just enjoying myself and the final results.
How much have I spent? Not enough .... hee hee hee

Sums up how I feel. I spend as much on water and ice per brew as some claim to spend total. Do I care? No. If I really want a new piece of equipment, I buy it, if it will make my process better. Enjoying what I made and sharing it with others is all that matters.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Sums up how I feel. I spend as much on water and ice per brew as some claim to spend total. Do I care? No. If I really want a new piece of equipment, I buy it, if it will make my process better. Enjoying what I made and sharing it with others is all that matters.

Hmm good point about water and ice. That can add to the cost too. I'm in BC and my ground water's cold enough year round and basically ro water from the tap.

 

[brewcat]

At 60 beers of Lablatts at $40 dollars is .50 cents a beer more than .26 not a dollar. One other thing to consider about equipment is that it isn’t truly a fixed cost. When it takes 2 years to pay off equipment things break, get old, become obsolete. Additionally, looking into my crystal ball says that the price for grain may be different 2 years from now.

I've been using the same brew pot for 10+ years. Most brewing equipment should last a good long while. I might have $2000 invested into equipment after all these years.

Let's say 2 cases of craft beer is $80. I bet 60 beers of Lablatts would be about the same around here. But something like High Life might be $36 or so. If all I drink is High Life I might be losing. But.. If I want craft beer... On the high end I can brew two cases for $40 (includes energy, cleaners, yeast starter, CO2, etc.). Let's say I brew 20 times this year. So I'd save $800. So in two and a half years I'd break even on equipment I've purchased over 10+ years.

It is interesting to think about. I guess I could save even more if I didn't drink at all...

 

[Murphys_Law]

Has it been asked yet...who got into this HOBBY to save money?