why siphon instead of pour if next step is aeration?

[Pastor Rick]

I use an auto siphon to rack to primary bucket, to secondary carboy, and to bottling bucket. Why not just pour cooled wort from kettle to primary bucket? The answer I've read many times is that it introduces too much oxygen. But the next step that I learned is to use a drill and paddle to aerate the wort before pitching yeast because the O2 is good for the yeast. I'm not talking about pouring hot wort through a strainer, which will oxidize (different from oxygenate, right?). Why am I working hard to avoid oxygen when the next step is to work hard to introduce oxygen? What am I missing? Thanks for your help. I'm always looking for ways to make it easier, if I can maintain quality.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Welcome to HomeBrewTalk.

Q: (from the title):why siphon instead of pour if next step is aeration?
A: with a siphon, there is less to lift and there is less chance of a significant spill.

Beyond that, I don't know what you've read in the past. My guess is that you may find answers (or ideas to peruse) in these podcasts / videos:

• Brew Files – 160 – Oxygen – The Sometimes Enemy
• Controlling Oxygen in Beer with Colin Kaminski – BeerSmith Podcast #293
• Beer Process Control with Colin Kaminski – BeerSmith Podcast #269
• Russian River's Ultimate Guide to Oxygen Management in the Brewhouse

edit: removed broken link

 

[Pastor Rick]

Welcome to HomeBrewTalk.

Q: (from the title):why siphon instead of pour if next step is aeration?
A: with a siphon, there is less to lift and there is less chance of a significant spill.

Beyond that, I don't know what you've read in the past. My guess is that you may find answers (or ideas to peruse) in these podcasts / videos:

• Brew Files – 160 – Oxygen – The Sometimes Enemy
• Controlling Oxygen in Beer with Colin Kaminski – BeerSmith Podcast #293
• Beer Process Control with Colin Kaminski – BeerSmith Podcast #269
• Russian River's Ultimate Guide to Oxygen Management in the Brewhouse

Thanks. I look forward to sifting through those.

 

[mashdar]

The short answer is pouring is fine. Most of the time if people are not pouring, it's because the kettle full of wort is too heavy to pick up easily.

Long version:

If you're not pitching right away, you might want to wait to aerate to limit oxidation in the mean time. Sometimes people need to let the wort cool to fermentation temperatures after transfer. As long as your wort is ready for pitch, pouring shouldn't hurt.

The other reason is to leave hops and break material behind in kettle. Pouring will be a bit sloppier, and a lot of people (by no means all people) try to limit how much solid stuff goes into fermenter.

Also, you might want to sanitize the rim of the kettle if pouring. Whether it matters depends on how hot the outside gets during boil. Probably minimal concern unless it's filthy.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

original Q has been cross-posted.

Welcome to HomeBrewTalk.

Q: (from the title):why siphon instead of pour if next step is aeration?
A: with a siphon, there is less to lift and there is less chance of a significant spill.

Beyond that, I don't know what you've read in the past. My guess is that you may find answers (or ideas to peruse) in these podcasts / videos:

• Brew Files – 160 – Oxygen – The Sometimes Enemy
• Controlling Oxygen in Beer with Colin Kaminski – BeerSmith Podcast #293
• Beer Process Control with Colin Kaminski – BeerSmith Podcast #269
• Russian River's Ultimate Guide to Oxygen Management in the Brewhouse

edit: removed broken link

 

[hotbeer]

You are the first person I've ever read that suggests too much aeration is a problem.

However I will say that if you are pitching dry yeast that you don't need to go to the trouble of aerating the wort. But if you do, it's not going to make any notable difference in the beer that I'm aware of.

Perhaps you read some early musings that oxidation of hop compounds in the wort prior to fermentation was a issue. But for the most part that seems to have been debunked or is just not the issue some felt it was BITD.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Why am I working hard to avoid oxygen when the next step is to work hard to introduce oxygen? What am I missing? Thanks for your help. I'm always looking for ways to make it easier, if I can maintain quality.

Welcome! As others have said, the using a siphon to transfer into the fermenter is more for ease than to avoid oxygen. Many people (me included) will intentionally let the wort splash into the fermenter to add a little oxygen.

When I am brewing 2.5 gal batches, I pour the cooled wort through a strainer. This introduced a little oxygen. The strain helps to remove most of the hop particles and some of the trub, but quite a bit of trub makes it into the fermenter. I generally look at a medium level of trub to be a good thing, but other have different opinions.

When brewing 5 gallon batches, I have tried a variety of methods. Using an auto-siphon worked fairly well, I am just a little concerned if I can really clean and sanitize an auto-siphon. Lifting an pouring a kettle with 5-6 gallons of wort is strenuous with lots of opportunities to make a big mess. I finally upgraded to a boil kettle with a ball valve. That is great for transferring. I try to leave behind the worse of the trub and hops in the kettle.

 

[Velnerj]

Maybe your fermenter is a carboy with a narrow mouth...

 

[Bramling Cross]

Maybe your fermenter is a carboy with a narrow mouth...

Back in the ancient olden days of yore, a hot topic of conversation was identifying the widest-mouthed funnel known to humanity. Sorta like the contemporary BFW meme...but before there were memes.

I'm old, cut me some slack. What were we talking about?

Oh, right! I've poured and splashed and cussed, and poured and splashed and cussed, and poured and splashed and cussed, and mopped the floor more times than I can remember while making many decent enough beers in my trusty old 6-gal glass carboys. If you want to get a big funnel and pour, that works. Go ahead and do it! I can assure you, your beer will not end humanity if you do it that way.

Pouring into your fermenter became a much less attractive option when step bits and weldless bulkhead/ball valve assemblies became much less expensive about twenty years ago. A step bit and a bulkhead/ball valve will run you about forty bucks, for the pair, these days. A several-lifetimes' supply of food grade machine oil costs another twenty bucks. The bulkhead and the bit will last for decades, compared to an autosiphon which is good for maybe, at most, three years...if you don't brew very much?

At this point, I think the bulkhead and valve arrangement has become so ubiquitous that most brewers start with that configuration on their rig. It makes things a whole lot easier, buy a bit and a bulkhead--it'll blow your mind. It certainly blew my mind.

 

[RM-MN]

Maybe your fermenter is a carboy with a narrow mouth...

We can solve that problem in seconds. I have a big hammer....

I also have multiple buckets to simply pour the wort into. No siphoning, no strainer, just pour. With as many brewers using buckets to brew in it seems to be proven that you don't need a carboy.

 

[madscientist451]

I always pour from the kettle to the fermenter and have never needed to add oxygen. With small batches it’s not bad, with larger batches I use a sanitized large measuring cup to get the first few gallons out then dump the rest in, being careful to leave the last quart or two of solids in the kettle. I just got a Gigawort electric kettle with a spigot, so I guess my pouring days are over….

 

[kevin58]

I'm also a pourer of cooled wort from boil kettle into the fermenter and never had any problems. Now, lets talk about your use of a secondary vessel...

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

I cool the wort and then jug it into a stainless steel saucepan with lid, measure the OG and pitch my hydrated safale 04 yeast, after 5 to 7 days I bottle and leave for 4 weeks, works for me but what do I know, I have only been brewing for 54 years.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I got a siphon and then decided to use a saucepan instead. I use the pan to get enough wort out of the kettle to make it easy to lift, and then I pick it up and pour.

Real men pour. Then later, they get really cool spinal fusions.

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

Clint - most amusing second paragraph.

 

[flipster]

Real men pour. Then later, they get really cool spinal fusions.

Yeaaaah...no! The little bit of prescription medication that comes out of it is not worth the fun for the spinal infusions...

But the whole topic sounds interesting. I'm siphoning the hot wort right after whirlpooling with a ring-shaped hop filter, spearating it from the trub cone, and minimizing the post-isomerisation time.
Also the hot wort will get rid of at least some germs that might have gotten into the fermenter barrel after prep...
But I might try calculating with longer post-isomerisation... that could be interesting.

 

[day_trippr]

Yeaaaah...no! The little bit of prescription medication that comes out of it is not worth the fun for the spinal infusions...

Ain't that the truth...

 

[Ninoid]

I was also initially troubled by that question: why pay attention to oxygen on the warm side when it is necessary to oxidize the wort anyway? Because of this, and even more so because I couldn't raise the pot myself to transfer the wort to the fermenter through the hose, I started using a large plastic cup to pour the wort from the brewing pot through the strainer into the fermenter. I didn't notice any difference in either the fermentation or the finished beer, and when I read this experiment I was even more convinced to continue this practice. And so I already do at least 200 batch of beer.

 

[jerrylotto]

I generally pour from the boil kettle to a 6 gallon bucket lined with a 400 mesh bag after cooling. All the hops and trub get left behind as I open the petcock on the bucket drain to fill the fermenter.