What should I do with lots of Crystal Malt

[markcurry]

Ok, at the beginning of the pandemic, I purchased a grain mill, and a few 50# sacks of grains. Base grain in 50# sacks - great idea!. (I've used 2 during the last 18 months). 50# sacks of Crystal - well that wasn't such a good idea - especially with the styles I tend to brew. I've perhaps used 10-12lbs of that sack.
The sack in question:
Admiral Maltings Kilnsmith

It's about a Crystal 60-80.

Any suggestions on how to use these grains? (I'm not limiting my choices to just beer).

There's been various post here, and other places regarding using insane amounts of crystal malts in a mash. Funny, I don't see many reports on the end results. One must assume these experiments were mostly dumpers. I'm wondering if something with some amylase might help chew up those sugars and not result in a sweet mess.

 

[MaxStout]

Visit a local brewery and offer to trade it for a sack of base malt.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The sack in question:
Admiral Maltings Kilnsmith

It's about a Crystal 60-80.

Given this malt analysis ...

... I would be cautious with classifying it as a "crystal" malt.

 

[madscientist451]

Trade for some different malt with other brewers. I have a 5O lb sack of rye malt and another of Oat malt....

 

[markcurry]

Given this malt analysis ...

View attachment 747521​

... I would be cautious with classifying it as a "crystal" malt.

Yeah, I'm still new on try to interpret these attributes of a malt. I was calling it "crystal" simply based on the name, and color.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I'd reach out to the maltster and ask for some recipes.. Their description sounds like its an alternative to and distinct from typical crystal malts. I also don't see the diastatic power listed, which would be a good clue to how you might use it in a beer. Or just make a small batch with it and find out what it can do, your idea of adding enzymes is helpful, and also maybe look into super attenuative yeast strains like saison, etc.

Edit: wow, not much out there about it but it does sound interesting. If you're open to selling/shipping I'd take several pounds off your hands.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Milds, English porters, Scottish ales come to mind as beers that benefit from crystal malts at 10% or just above that.

 

[IslandLizard]

That "Crystal malt" looks more like a biscuit type malt with some crystal properties. I'd definitely do a test brew with it see what it does at using 8-12% content. Judging by the specs, it definitely needs to be mashed with a diastatic malt for conversion, not merely steeped, to get it to shine.

But, as @Jayjay1976 said, I would reach out to the maltster first for some recipes or guidelines. It may well be the bees knees in flavor/aroma/color contribution.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Any suggestions on how to use these grains? (I'm not limiting my choices to just beer).

Nutty ("grape nuts") would suggest a nut brown ale. Toffee flavors can work with a malty amber ale.

There's been various post here, and other places regarding using insane amounts of crystal malts in a mash. Funny, I don't see many reports on the end results. One must assume these experiments were mostly dumpers.

I brewed Broken Leg Amber (here at HomebrewTalk) earlier this summer (it's around 20% crystal). I also have a brown ale recipe that I brew occasionally that uses around 20% crystal malt. Neither is (for me) a "sweet mess", but everyone tastes beer differently.

 

[madscientist451]

The sample analysis says that the extract is 79-83%, so I suppose you could use it 100% in a beer. I'd do a 1-2 gallon batch and see how it comes out.

 

[Miraculix]

The sample analysis says that the extract is 79-83%, so I suppose you could use it 100% in a beer. I'd do a 1-2 gallon batch and see how it comes out.

But add 30% Pilsener to aid conversion!

 

[hottpeper13]

That might be close to Special Roast, a high dry malt not crystal.
Make friends and share. I was gifted a 50 lb bag of pale chocolate and bagged it up in 3 lb parcels and gave it to club members.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Any suggestions on how to use these grains? (I'm not limiting my choices to just beer).

50# of a grain like that would be hard for me to work through...would have to make 1 batch every month that used 2 lbs just to use it up in 2 years. (I learned that purchasing Brown Malt and Special B in 5# bags was way more than I could use up in a 2 year window.)

Do you attend any homebrew clubs? I would be very interested in trying a grain like that, so I am sure you could offer it up "at cost or trade" and get some people interested. (just noticed that @hottpeper13 suggested something similar)

 

[IslandLizard]

But add 30% Pilsener to aid conversion!

At least!
I seriously doubt that KilnSmith converts anything by itself. It's some sort of specialty malt, a cross between Biscuit, Melanoidin and Crystal malt.
Interesting though! Would make a nice club brew project, seeing and tasting what brewers can make out of it.

 

[Miraculix]

At least!
I seriously doubt that KilnSmith converts anything by itself. It's some sort of specialty malt, a cross between Biscuit, Melanoidin and Crystal malt.
Interesting though! Would make a nice club brew project, seeing and tasting what brewers can make out of it.

I thought the same!

 

[Miraculix]

Now that I think about it....easy keptinis-ish?

 

[markcurry]

Thanks for the ideas folks. I've reached out to Admiral Maltings for suggestions. I'll let folks know about any replies.
I am a member of a homebrew club. Bagging up 3# sacks and handing them off at a meeting is certainly a good idea.

 

[markcurry]

I've reached out to Admiral Maltings for suggestions. I'll let folks know about any replies.

Dave McLean, Co-Founder of Admiral Maltings replied to my requests. In general, my read from his response is to treat the grain like a Crystal malt - their process isn't quite the same as a "true crystal": From Dave "The big difference is that Kilnsmith leans more toward caramel notes rather than the sweeter notes of true crystal malts."

He also suggested trading with local brewers for other grains - which I'll do.

 

[odie]

store it cool and dry. It will last for years. I got some sacks of crystal that will last me years. The price was too good not to buy. What you have sounds like a medium crystal so lots of use for that IMO.

 

[WesBrew]

I like the idea of trading some with other home brewers. Maybe even a brewery. An ESB will use a good amount in a brew

 

[Jayjay1976]

Would be interesting to brew a simple test batch to isolate the flavors. Pilsner malt, some proportion of kilnsmith, and just enough bittering hops to balance; fermented cool with a neutral ale yeast.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Another option would be to use the Hop Steep Method with a couple of similar crystal malts:

The Hot Steep Method is a standardized wort preparation method that [was] developed for malt sensory evaluation at [...] in late 2015. In early 2016, the method was validated by the American Society of Brewing Chemists Sensory Technical Subcommittee. By mid-2016, the written method [...] was approved for inclusion in the ASBC Methods of Analysis [...].

• The Hot Steep Method: Step-by-Step Instructions - Brewing With Briess

Many malts have flavor wheels or descriptions based on these (or similar process) results.

 

[markcurry]

I like those step-by-step instructions from Briess. I might need to try those steps myself (without the flavor wheels) - starting with just base grains. Either I have a terrible palate, or I just don't understand some of the common terminology used to describe some grains. i.e. I just don't understand the descriptions like "biscuit" toward grains like Maris Otter. My mother-in-law (from the south) made outstanding biscuits. Buttery, flaky goodness with or without some homemade jam or sausage. The overlap in my head between the goodness of those biscuits and what I might describe as a "good" profile in a beer... Well there's just no overlap...I don't get it.

But just tasting those hot steeps next to each other - that's a nice idea that'll likely help me.

 

[Miraculix]

I like those step-by-step instructions from Briess. I might need to try those steps myself (without the flavor wheels) - starting with just base grains. Either I have a terrible palate, or I just don't understand some of the common terminology used to describe some grains. i.e. I just don't understand the descriptions like "biscuit" toward grains like Maris Otter. My mother-in-law (from the south) made outstanding biscuits. Buttery, flaky goodness with or without some homemade jam or sausage. The overlap in my head between the goodness of those biscuits and what I might describe as a "good" profile in a beer... Well there's just no overlap...I don't get it.

But just tasting those hot steeps next to each other - that's a nice idea that'll likely help me.

A big part of the world understands something different when you ask for a biscuit, basically a crunchy cookie. That is very confusing, because I have no idea what they are actually referring to.

 

[bracconiere]

i brewed a 100% caravienna beer? got pretty decent effec....it was really burnt toast tasting, but not like black burnt, just dark....?

 

[PCABrewing]

A big part of the world understands something different when you ask for a biscuit, basically a crunchy cookie. That is very confusing, because I have no idea what they are actually referring to.

I was in UK for business years ago.
My colleague from the area said he had sent out for some "Biscuits" to have with our morning coffee.
I was fine with the idea of Biscuits and Gravy for breakfast.
But I wasn't disappointed when Cookies showed up in the meeting room .

 

[Jayjay1976]

A big part of the world understands something different when you ask for a biscuit, basically a crunchy cookie. That is very confusing, because I have no idea what they are actually referring to.

I always took it to mean shortbread. Pretty simple flavor of sweet, golden toasted flour and the richness of butter. I totally get that from Maris Otter.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Given this malt analysis ...

View attachment 747521​

... I would be cautious with classifying it as a "crystal" malt.

Good grief!!! That's trash!

Where did you dig up that analysis? I was under the impression that Admiralty made an amazing product?

 

[Bramling Cross]

i brewed a 100% caravienna beer? got pretty decent effec....it was really burnt toast tasting, but not like black burnt, just dark....?

What sort of attenuation did you pull off of that?

I remember back in the early 90's there was some debate about whether C-malts were fermentable on HBD. A brief fad for all C-malt beers ensued. It was short lived and the topic failed to gather momentum.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The sack in question:
Admiral Maltings Kilnsmith

It's about a Crystal 60-80.

Given this malt analysis ...

... I would be cautious with classifying it as a "crystal" malt.

Good grief!!! That's trash!

Where did you dig up that analysis? I was under the impression that Admiralty made an amazing product?

I took the to time to read OPs original post and followed the link(s) provided.

Here's the link: Admiral Maltings Kilnsmith (link).

 

[Bramling Cross]

I took the to time to read OPs original post and followed the link(s) provided.

Here's the link: Admiral Maltings Kilnsmith (link).

As a frequent dealer of snark, I applaud you.

Yeah, not my finest hour.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Out-snarked, it appears I've made a double post.

Egads!

 

[Jayjay1976]

What's happening in here

 

[Bramling Cross]

What's happening in here

BrewnWKopperKat laid the wood to me. He noted the very, very high quantity of mealy malt in an analysis of the Admiralty malt and I asked him where he found that damning analysis. He pointed out that he clicked the OP's link and I hung my head in shame.

Since then, he seems to have edited his epic annihilation of me in favor of a large GIF of some sort.

I'm starting to think that I might come out as the winner in this epic online cage match.

Edit: Damnit! He's reverted back to the original post and I've been undone! Damn you, BrewnWKopperKat!!!!!!! We'll meet again!

/snark

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Since then, he seems to have edited his epic annihilation of me in favor of a large GIF of some sort.

Reply #31 (link) shows as unchanged. There appears to be a "window" after a reply is posted where edits can be made. During that window, I did add the full context for the sub-sub-topic.

Reply #30 (link) is a "screen shot" to a HomeBrewTalk topic on the fermentability of crystal malt. Pehaps an interesting read for those who both steep and mash crystal malts. Or for those who convert recipes from all-grain to extract.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Reply #31 (link) shows as unchanged. There appears to be a "window" after a reply is posted where edits can be made. During that window, I did add the full context for the sub-sub-topic.

Reply #30 (link) is a "screen shot" to a HomeBrewTalk topic on the fermentability of crystal malt. Pehaps an interesting read for those who both steep and mash crystal malts. Or for those who convert recipes from all-grain to extract.

Sir, I appreciate the time you've spent documenting your good name. It is, however, not necessary. At no point was I ever calling your good name into question. Rather, I have been mocking my own stupidity and having a bit of fun with what looked like a gigantic, distorted GIF in one your posts. The focus of my mockery has consistently and exclusively been myself. At no point have you been the intended target of my jests.

I apologize if you think I've treated you poorly. That was never, ever my intention. I made a foolish mistake and decided to mock myself, never you.

 

[duncan.brown]

A big part of the world understands something different when you ask for a biscuit, basically a crunchy cookie.

Yep! When describing malt flavors as "biscuit" this is what it is typically being referring to. For those that live in New York State, you can get McVitie's Digestive Biscuits in Wegmans!

 

[bracconiere]

What sort of attenuation did you pull off of that?

I remember back in the early 90's there was some debate about whether C-malts were fermentable on HBD. A brief fad for all C-malt beers ensued. It was short lived and the topic failed to gather momentum.

i added gluco so, ~100%?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I apologize if you think I've treated you poorly.

Accepted, although no apology was needed. We' re good. I will occasionally write things assuming people are on phones scanning quickly - this was one of those times.