Warm Fermented Lager Thread

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Haven't done a WF for a while, last couple of lagers have been done cold; but the ferment fridge has seen lots of action the last few weeks getting the pipeline full for spring/summer, as well as brewing a couple of ales for a friend, so I brewed one up last weekend. Just gave it a test/taste; gravity only down to 1.018 (from 1.060), with a bit of green-apple taste so it will have to sit another week. Then will keg, and let it finish out there. Was done on fresh S-23, and for some weird reason the aroma has some banana-ish notes. Not unpleasant, just not expected. Straight two-row was the grain bill, bittered with Cascade, with a 1oz addition of Chinook at 15; bittering is just perfect, and the Chinook adds something that works. This one will make a great lawnmower beer.
 
I have a split batch fermenting right now: WLP940@10°C vs WY2112@20ºC. Both are a Vienna/CTZ SMASH* that I've brewed before with WLP940 vs WY1007 (which were worlds apart). We'll see how this turns out. I'm still trying to find a recipe that I like with WY2112 - to me it always had a unique flavor to it to which I couldn't find the matching beer around.

* The reason for this recipe is that I'm cheap and that I got my hands on Vienna malt and CTZ hops for next to nothing.
 
Finally got a break in my ferm chamber space after brewing Belgian styles to do a warm fermented lager. Decided to use L13 Global and start at 58F and move it up to 66F after 50% attenuation, then up to 72F. Anyone see any issues with this?
 
TNJake said:
So the MJ45 tore through this Shiner Bock clone. Krausen added some variance in the tilt readings in the middle but this was basically a full fermentation in 2 days.View attachment 621121 I think I'll call it Jack's Shiner.
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This one turned out pretty great. Shiner Bock, in my book, is one of those beers that I can drink anytime and works for most people who visit my house. With MJ54 I can make this all year with very little effort, warm ferm, and as you can see from the SG curve, a quick turnaround.
 
I’m doing a Vienna lager at the minute and we’ve ended up having 24C weather. I pitched at 13C (low as I could get the wort with tap water using my IC). It rose to 17C overnight, but just by surrounding the FV with four 2L bottles of frozen water I’ve managed to sustain it at 11-13C, so still a little on the warm side for a lager. I’m on day five now, so I’m just letting it free rise as it’s likely most of the way near FG. Will take gravity reading later on to check.
 
HTH1975 said:
I’m doing a Vienna lager at the minute and we’ve ended up having 24C weather. I pitched at 13C (low as I could get the wort with tap water using my IC). It rose to 17C overnight, but just by surrounding the FV with four 2L bottles of frozen water I’ve managed to sustain it at 11-13C, so still a little on the warm side for a lager. I’m on day five now, so I’m just letting it free rise as it’s likely most of the way near FG. Will take gravity reading later on to check.
Click to expand...

Gravity was 1.010 last night, beer had dropped fairly bright, but still a bit green (tasting). I’m leaving it to rise up to room temperature for a discetyl rest for two days, then I’ll chill it down as cold as possible before bottling Thurs/Fri.
 
I brewed this recipe

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/biermunchers-“helles-belles”-munich-helles-ag.48985/

but used 34/70 instead. Here it is probably 5-6 weeks later. Flavors pretty good, I was hoping to get a little more the grainy flavor, Any tips malt bill? yeast?

IMG-7724.jpg
 
What pitch rate is everyone using for warm fermented lagers? My Ale rates are 0.75M/ml and lager is typically 1.5M/ml so I was wondering if it’s safe to go down to 0.75 for these lagers?
 
I'm sipping on a very unintentional super-warm fermented lager right now. Ferment fridge went plotz on me (starter relay, since fixed) with what was supposed to be the summer competition lager in it. Temperature got up to the low 80's (ouch!). Once the fridge was fixed, I crashed it down to 45 and kegged it up. It had been in the fermenter about 7 days when the fridge futzed. Hydrometer test showed it essentially done, but I wanted to get it off the yeast. Flavor? Oh hells yes. Delicious, nothing off, and as my first low-ABV beer in a couple years (4.6%), plenty of maltiness and the Saaz hops pop nicely. Yeast was 2nd generation S-23, my go-to for lagers, warm or cold fermented.
 
Schulzy5 said:
What pitch rate is everyone using for warm fermented lagers? My Ale rates are 0.75M/ml and lager is typically 1.5M/ml so I was wondering if it’s safe to go down to 0.75 for these lagers?
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If you look at mrmalty and brew united there is an option for a hybrid type beer with 1mil/ml inoculation rate, that might be an appropriate choice.

Seem an higher pitch should help get a clean ferment.
 
I just kegged a warm fermented lager. I used the second runnings from a pale ale smash with two row.

I needed to make a starter for a Pilsner, that I’m cold fermenting. So, I figured why not make a five gallon starter with leftovers. The OG came in at 1035. It turned out to be a pretty good little lawn mower beer. A little hop forward for a lager, but that’s cool. I like hops. I also like five gallons of free beer!

One more plus for warm fermented lager.
 
Made a light lager last Sunday. Did no chill because figured it's only 1 oz of 3.1 % hallertau per 5.5 g so not like the no chill is going to ruin the hops. Have started another thread for this because I plan on using glucoamylase.
 
I've been following this thread for a while now and I really like using 34/70 yeast at room temps. Made a BIAB Helles lager two weeks ago, 45 minute boil with late addition Magnum hops. Did no chill with this batch and re-pitched a 34/70 yeast slurry 24 hours later at around 66 degrees. No temperature control, just fermented under pressure (around 5 psi). Transferred the beer and tried a sample tonight. Delicious! No off flavors that I can detect. Using less equipment and shorter brew days have been great!
 
If I wasn't before, I am now a firm believer in warm fermented lagers. My most recent one is a German Pils with one packet of 34/70 fermented at 66F. The OG was 1.044, it was finished fermenting in a few days, and tastes great. It was helped by a 2 week cold crash, thanks to my work schedule it took a while to find time to keg it. I've heard that 34/70 can take a while to clear, but I guess the two weeks took care of that, I wasn't watching too closely. Here is my recipe.

German Pils
German Pils (5 D)
NSRM3.png

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 5.97 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 5.47 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 5.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Date: 05 Mar 2018
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: My Equipment - 8 gal pot
Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
4.00 ml Lactic Acid (Mash) Water Agent 1 - -
2.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash) Water Agent 2 - -
2.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash) Water Agent 3 - -
2.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash) Water Agent 4 - -
8 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (1.5 SRM) Grain 5 97.1 % 0.66 gal
4.0 oz Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.9 % 0.02 gal
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.40 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 7 19.4 IBUs -
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 8.8 IBUs -
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.40 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs -
1.0 pkg Saflager Lager (DCL/Fermentis #W-34/70) [50.28 ml] Yeast 10 - -
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.043 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.006 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.9 %
Bitterness: 28.2 IBUs
Est Color: 3.4 SRM
Measured Original Gravity: 1.044 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.5 %
Calories: 144.8 kcal/12oz
 
ba-brewer said:
If you look at mrmalty and brew united there is an option for a hybrid type beer with 1mil/ml inoculation rate, that might be an appropriate choice.

Seem an higher pitch should help get a clean ferment.
Click to expand...

Not necessary. I am just about finished with a keg of hot lager that i didn't even check the production date, just used an Imperial pouch. It fermented great, and is clean/clear after about 8 or 9 days. The bigger pitch is specifically due to pitching and fermenting cold. At ale temps an ale pitch works just fine
 


This is a "copper lager" I'm just about to kick. I know it's near empty but beer just keeps flowing. Long story on this beer, thread of its own long. In short, no chill, mid 60's under 8psi, finished in about 8 days. 2 days crash, racked to a new keg with gelatin.

I used Imperial L17 Harvest yeast, which is lab rated 50-60°f so I figured 65 ish under pressure was fine. A tiny rubber taste the first few days, but venting got rid of that. After about a week its now super smooth and tasty.

So, under a little pressure, we can add L17 to the list of warm lager yeasts. I'll get around to trying it in a carboy in the next few weeks to see how it performs without pressure at higher temps. I collected a few jars of slurry and already have a pilsner (100% 2 row / saphir 1.045) moved to warm up (just in case, no diacetyl and its at 1.012) before crashing. The pils was no chill and pitched last Thursday, so nearly done @5 days
 
Ayinger Oktoberfest clone. all grain. I wanted to do an experiment with lager yeast at warm temperatures i fermented it at 72 degrees for 3 weeks using Mangrove jacks California M54 it came out very clean no unwanted esters good malty flavor I wish I had a little more body with it but delicious. will it bottle condition for a few months and test it again
 

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NolaMonk said:
Ayinger Oktoberfest clone. all grain. I wanted to do an experiment with lager yeast at warm temperatures i fermented it at 72 degrees for 3 weeks using Mangrove jacks California M54 it came out very clean no unwanted esters good malty flavor I wish I had a little more body with it but delicious. will it bottle condition for a few months and test it again
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Recipe please!
 
I submitted the helles from my last post to a homebrew competition and received a 35 and 39. I can upload the score sheets if anyone is interested in seeing them. This beer had some big temp swings in ferm temperature, overall pretty satisfied with the scores.
 
MakeDankBeer said:
I submitted the helles from my last post to a homebrew competition and received a 35 and 39. I can upload the score sheets if anyone is interested in seeing them. This beer had some big temp swings in ferm temperature, overall pretty satisfied with the scores.
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Would love to see them, Great work and congrats.
 
I've done the warm-ferment lager thing a few times now, with w34/70 and S-189, and I always seem to get really fast ferments. The current batch is a standard German Pils with an OG of 1.048 and w34/70. After 72 hours at 18C (64.4F), airlock activity has stopped. I realize that's not the only indicator of fermentation, but it's a regular occurrence for me. I also use a rectangular fermenter (12L HDPE water tank). Do many other people get similar fermentation times?
 
I'm glad I found this thread. I made my first cold fermented lager recently. On my equiptment, it was possible, but a PITA. In looking for better ways to do this, I came across this thread. I currently have a California Common going with M 54. My next on deck is a classic american pilsner based on the recipe in Brewing Classic Styles. I have 34/70 on hand and some Oslo kveik coming. Any thoughts/suggestions on which way to go on yeast with this one?
 
ebbelwoi said:
I've done the warm-ferment lager thing a few times now, with w34/70 and S-189, and I always seem to get really fast ferments. The current batch is a standard German Pils with an OG of 1.048 and w34/70. After 72 hours at 18C (64.4F), airlock activity has stopped. I realize that's not the only indicator of fermentation, but it's a regular occurrence for me. I also use a rectangular fermenter (12L HDPE water tank). Do many other people get similar fermentation times?
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
MakeDankBeer said:
I brewed this recipe

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/biermunchers-“helles-belles”-munich-helles-ag.48985/

but used 34/70 instead. Here it is probably 5-6 weeks later. Flavors pretty good, I was hoping to get a little more the grainy flavor, Any tips malt bill? yeast?

IMG-7724.jpg
Click to expand...
I know this is an older post but I think Melanoiden would help add that extra malt zip to your beer. I brew an awesome helles and sometimes bump the pilsner and hops up on the recipe to make a pilsner and I think its fantastic. 2% melanoiden malt in the grain bill - I know its not much but I think it makes enough of a difference.
 
MileHighBrewer said:
Not necessary. I am just about finished with a keg of hot lager that i didn't even check the production date, just used an Imperial pouch. It fermented great, and is clean/clear after about 8 or 9 days. The bigger pitch is specifically due to pitching and fermenting cold. At ale temps an ale pitch works just fine
Click to expand...

The bigger pitch is due to the difference in lager yeast cell size count vs. ale yeast cell size count not temperature. Just a correction. I'm not saying pitch 2 packs or 1 pack, just correcting your info. A 11.5g pack of lager yeast has 50%ish the cell count of a 11.5g pack of ale yeast.
 
I brewed, I guess you would call it a brut light lager. I discussed enzyme usage on a different thread and gave it a try. Happy with the beer. Havent left one out to confirm this but I think its suffering from chill haze pretty bad. Super quaffable as always. I think a tea ball or two filled with hops would give it a real kick. The other 5 g sitting there I think could use a couple oz dry hop or line or something to give it a little more life.
 
I brewed a German Pilsner warm fermented at 65F with 34/70 yeast. It took 3rd place in the First Round of the National Homebrew Competition in Boston this year. It didn't place in the final round. But, all of the feedback from the judges was positive as far as fermentation and lagering was concerned. Just wanted to add a little more evidence to this thread that warm fermented lagers are definitely something to consider when using W-34/70 yeast.
 
Just a quick update on MJ 54 - California Lager

I was always missing the slight sulphor nose I get from most of the really good european pilseners.

Now that I brewed a lager with it with american hops, which do not play well with a bit of sulphor aroma at all, I got this slight sulphor nose that I was missing :D

At least I know now how to get it. The key is underpitching. Pitch at about 1/3 to 1/2 of the recommended amount and you will get a bit of sulphor. Not too much, just the right amount for a nice noble hop pilsener. I fermented at about 23c. The beer is clean otherwise.
 
I have a Belgian Golden Ale on deck next but probably the next one in line after that will be a beautiful Marzen I made last year. Last year I brewed it with WLP840 but I'd like to give this WF a whirl. Do you guys have a list of yeasts compiled for this that I can check out? Or alternately can you recommend a good replacement for a WF?
 

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