Warm Fermented Lager Thread

[InspectorJon]

In my experience it might ferment out faster but it still needs at least a good week or more to become clear and start tasting in spec.

Vs. lagering for several weeks or months...

 

[beervoid]

Vs. lagering for several weeks or months...

I doubt you gain much time on a low temp ferment vs higher. Maybe a few days? After that its the same lagering time to get it in spec which is up to everyone's own pallet. For me they taste just fine after a week or so, the clearer the beer becomes the cleaner.
Maybe fining could speed it a little more.

 

[dmtaylor]

In my experience it might ferment out faster but it still needs at least a good week or more to become clear and start tasting in spec.

Oh no! An extra week or two! Say it isn't so!

I mean, I agree with you. Most beers taste better after an extra week or two of conditioning. Especially lagers. But NOT a MONTH OR TWO like traditionalists would have us believe.

 

[beervoid]

Oh no! An extra week or two! Say it isn't so!

I mean, I agree with you. Most beers taste better after an extra week or two of conditioning. Especially lagers. But NOT a MONTH OR TWO like traditionalists would have us believe.

Yes my point being, but perhaps im not such a lager connoisseur as others, I never really enjoyed the style much.

 

[sweetcell]

I've been reading and watching this thread for a while, but never quite figured out what folks are hoping to achieve. Is it just that it's OK to warm ferment a lager yeast and not have terrible beer, making the process easier? Or is it that the beer tastes better in any way?

my goal for warm fermenting - just me, personally - is to make a lager without having to invest in a fermentation fridge (read: SWMBO will murderlize me if i add yet another appliance to the basement). so: how to make the best lager at ambient temps?

i'm certainly not warm-fermenting for any flavor differential... at best, if all the stars align, a WF can taste as good as a traditionally cool-fermented lager. the risk of a few more esters is one i'm willing to take, vs. giving up on lagers entirely. luckily, so far, my WF lagers have turned out very clean. YMMV.

 

[Shenanigans]

my goal for warm fermenting - just me, personally - is to make a lager without having to invest in a fermentation fridge (read: SWMBO will murderlize me if i add yet another appliance to the basement). so: how to make the best lager at ambient temps?

i'm certainly not warm-fermenting for any flavor differential... at best, if all the stars align, a WF can taste as good as a traditionally cool-fermented lager. the risk of a few more esters is one i'm willing to take, vs. giving up on lagers entirely. luckily, so far, my WF lagers have turned out very clean. YMMV.

My sentiments exactly.
Especially with the SWMBO.
She's been green washed and if she see another fridge in the basement she will not be impressed
Happy wife is a happy life!
Although we are not married yet after over 20 years together

 

[rallenhall]

I've done warm fermented lagers (usually with wet t-shirt and fan, esp. when summer basement temp is around 70F), along with pressure fermented and traditional cold fermented. All make acceptable beers with the 34/70 family of yeast strains. I do find, however, that when I have brews of the same recipe to compare, I tend to like cold fermented the best. Not to say that the others are bad ... they're just fine when they stand alone.

 

[DevilsCups]

You might not have done

Hoping so! It's still going, bit by bit. Down to 1.012 today. Not the end of the world if it doesn't reach desired vols via spunding!

 

[Yesfan]

Would 34/70 be good for a Mexi-lager? I have the Atlantico kit from NB and was thinking about splitting the batch. 2.5 gallons with WLP-940 and the other 2.5 with 34/70. If another dry yeast is preferable I may just do a starter for the WLP-940 to ferment the whole 5 gallons.

 

[fluketamer]

i liked cellarscince baja for my mexican lager it worked well

 

[DuncB]

Hoping so! It's still going, bit by bit. Down to 1.012 today. Not the end of the world if it doesn't reach desired vols via spunding!

I think you'll get there, especially bumping temp up a couple of degrees now as well.

 

[DevilsCups]

I think you'll get there, especially bumping temp up a couple of degrees now as well.

I'll update in here, for posterity. Tomorrow is one week since pitch. The spunding valve is set to 25psi now @ 68-70ºF, and still off-gassing (whether or not it's ferm activity or just CO2 breaking out). We'll see what story the gravity tells starting tomorrow.

I'll likely plan on crashing once this is totally finished, then racking into a purged keg onto gelatin, then letting it sit for a few days.

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

Tapped last weekend and I can’t get enough of it. I wish I would have tried this 15 years ago.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Agreed 100%

 

[DevilsCups]

What do you guys think - gelatin fining in keg or gelatin fining in pressure primary at crash temp?

 

[rallenhall]

I've always fined in the keg. Leave as much behind as you can during transfer.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I've always fined in the keg. Leave as much behind as you can during transfer.

Same here.

 

[DuncB]

I drop the yeast in the conical pressure fermenter ( spunded) after cold crash.
Then use super F, drop all of that out and lager for a few more weeks.
Then repeat dose of finings into the keg which is sanitised and purged before closed transfer.

 

[Miraculix]

I've just bottled my latest warm fermented lager. Haven't done one for quite a while and I am super pleased with the result.

It's supposed to be an American light lager going into the direction of kirin ichiban, but a tad bit lower abv. I think I've nailed it! Fermenter sample tasted so nice that I've drawn myself a pint straight out of the fermenter. 20 ibus, pilsner malt, 3% carafoam, hoch kurz mash, diamond lager yeast.

The yeast handling was a bit unique. I've used lallemand diamond lager. I took 3g of the yeast and multiplied it in a 2l starter twice. One hour prior pitching a gave the yeast a cup of wort to get active. This means I pitched A LOT of yeast and it was super active.

The result is really clean with big herbal hop aroma and zero c hop flavour although I used cascade. 60 minute addition only.

If this will turn out like I think it will, I'll open a dedicated thread with the full recipe.

Cheers!

 

[DevilsCups]

I've been a big fan of Diamond.

 

[balrog]

I've just bottled my latest warm fermented lager. Haven't done one for quite a while and I am super pleased with the result.

It's supposed to be an American light lager going into the direction of kirin ichiban, but a tad bit lower abv. I think I've nailed it! Fermenter sample tasted so nice that I've drawn myself a pint straight out of the fermenter. 20 ibus, pilsner malt, 3% carafoam, hoch kurz mash, diamond lager yeast.

The yeast handling was a bit unique. I've used lallemand diamond lager. I took 3g of the yeast and multiplied it in a 2l starter twice. One hour prior pitching a gave the yeast a cup of wort to get active. This means I pitched A LOT of yeast and it was super active.

The result is really clean with big herbal hop aroma and zero c hop flavour although I used cascade. 60 minute addition only.

If this will turn out like I think it will, I'll open a dedicated thread with the full recipe.

Cheers!

fermentation temps, profile, or whatnot?

 

[Miraculix]

fermentation temps, profile, or whatnot?

19 c to 20 c room temperature without further temperature controlling. Except for the tub of water where I placed the fermenter in, to increase the thermal mass. This lowers initial temperature rises when fermentation is at it's peak. The swing shouldn't be that big anyway, as the OG was quite low, 1,04. The final gravity is 1.008.

 

[Miraculix]

I've been a big fan of Diamond.

I've read that from multiple people here on the thread and so far, I strongly agree! It is dropping out like no lager yeast I've had before. And I've had .... Two!!

Actually, I've tried three. Wlp 800, imperial harvest and 3470. All great yeasts and all work very well warm.

 

[Genuine]

I just did 2 back to back lagers - Fermented with 34/70 at 70 degrees and so far they both are stellar! First one was a pseudo Corona w/lime lager and the 2nd is a wheat based lager that I poured on top of the yeast cake from the previous batch. They had to have been the quickest active fermentation I've seen...both had a krausen in less than 12 hours and krausen dropped in 36 hours or less. So far no off flavors, they both taste clean and crisp.

 

[Bullhog]

Has anyone tried warm fermentation with Cellar Science German yeast yet? I assume it's the same as 34/70, but looking for warm fermentation experience here.

 

[Miraculix]

I've just bottled my latest warm fermented lager. Haven't done one for quite a while and I am super pleased with the result.

It's supposed to be an American light lager going into the direction of kirin ichiban, but a tad bit lower abv. I think I've nailed it! Fermenter sample tasted so nice that I've drawn myself a pint straight out of the fermenter. 20 ibus, pilsner malt, 3% carafoam, hoch kurz mash, diamond lager yeast.

The yeast handling was a bit unique. I've used lallemand diamond lager. I took 3g of the yeast and multiplied it in a 2l starter twice. One hour prior pitching a gave the yeast a cup of wort to get active. This means I pitched A LOT of yeast and it was super active.

The result is really clean with big herbal hop aroma and zero c hop flavour although I used cascade. 60 minute addition only.

If this will turn out like I think it will, I'll open a dedicated thread with the full recipe.

Cheers!

Patience is something for other people, obviously not for me. I've tried the first bottle, five days after bottling. Summer temperatures fully carbonated it already and it's is a really nice beer. Almost perfectly clear already as well! Somehow way hoppier than anticipated, so it's more like a pilsner than an American light lager, but nevertheless very good.

Let's wait there or four weeks and we'll know how good it can be!

 

[rtstrider]

Has anyone tried warm fermentation with Cellar Science German yeast yet? I assume it's the same as 34/70, but looking for warm fermentation experience here.

I believe that's their version of 34/70. It should work fine I'd think

 

[Miraculix]

Just in case somebody wants to know or needs inspiration for a great warm fermented beer. My Kirin Ichiban clone recipe:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...ger-kirin-ichiban-clone.733189/#post-10387547

It's as good as it's easy to brew.

 

[Miraculix]

I don't know if I've already said it, but huge and big thanks to @applescrap for starting this thread. You've changed a lot of my personal brewing perspective. A lot of great beers I wouldn't have brewed without this thread here!

Cheers!

 

[sweetcell]

i've had great success repitching 34/70. for the past 3 years i've followed the same spring brew process: warm-ferment 3 x 5gal batches of pilsner/light blond lager using 34/70, then use the cakes for 2 x 5gal of doppelbock.

time to start planning my annual lager brews, come to think of it...

update on this year's lagers:

- pilsner/blond thing was brewed in late april. Pelton & saphir SMaSH. thank to a cool woodshop, primary was done at 54*F - not really WF unfortunately, for the first time, 34/70 kinda let me down: it took 1.058 down to 1.016, only. i pitched 5 relatively fresh packets into 3 x 5 gal. between the higher than desired FG, and a meddling bitterness from the hops, the beer turned out on the malty/sweet side. still entirely drinkable, but not as crisp as desired. closer to a bock, IMO. not sure if i'm going keep all 3 kegs to drink as-is, or if i use some for souring/funk... tbd.

- doppelbock was brewed in early june, which was later than hoped. 50-50 Pelton/Metolius, & saphir + a little EKG to ensure i wasn't under-bittered like the blond. i stored the cakes from the blond in the fridge for a few weeks, still took off quickly when pitched. attenuation was a bit better, 1.085 --> 1.020, within spec but slightly on the higher side. had my first sample and it was very good. very malty and almost sweet, but it plays well with the higher alcohol.

 

[Yesfan]

I did a 2 gallon West Coast Pilsner attempt earlier today, so hoping it tastes as good as it smelled going into the fermenter. Recipe was pilsen malt with some carapils, Chinook for bittering and lots of Citra/Mosaic towards the end. I pitched 34/70 at 62F and plan on pressure fermenting at 10psi.

 

[Shenanigans]

I got a good deal on Lallemand Diamond lager yeast and have 2 packs on their way to me.
I think I will brew an NZ pilsner with it later this year.

I'll be aiming for an OG of around 1.052; would one pack be enough warm fermented around 18oC (64F)?

 

[Miraculix]

I got a good deal on Lallemand Diamond lager yeast and have 2 packs on their way to me.
I think I will brew an NZ pilsner with it later this year.

I'll be aiming for an OG of around 1.052; would one pack be enough warm fermented around 18oC (64F)?

I would think so. But my new thing is to do a starter with about 1/3 or 1/4 of a pack to turn it into liquid yeast essentially. I seal the remaining of the pack with a piece of tape and freeze it. Stores forever.

Never used it directly out of the pack I'm afraid.

 

[Shenanigans]

I would think so. But my new thing is to do a starter with about 1/3 or 1/4 of a pack to turn it into liquid yeast essentially. I seal the remaining of the pack with a piece of tape and freeze it. Stores forever.

Never used it directly out of the pack I'm afraid.

I might give that a try but will depend on how much time I have when I brew it.
I will have two packs so can try both methods as some stage.

 

[Miraculix]

Somehow the idea of a session tropical stout, which is essentially a warm fermented dark lager, came to my mind today.

I think I might brew one next, with diamond lager.

Something like 500g dark muscovado, 40% mo, 40% pilsner 10% roasted barley, or something like that.

25 ibus probably.

 

[leedspointbrew]

Don't know if a lager in an a swamp cooler counts, but I pitched at ~70 and kept adding cold water and frozen 1 liters until it hit mid 60s. Not as fast as Lutra used to be, but hoping for a better end result.

 

[Shenanigans]

I have some 2021 traditional German hops in the freezer that need to be used up. Perle, Tettnang and Mittelfruh.
I don't want to brew any traditional German beers though, except maybe some kind of redish bock.

Anyway, when researching I stumbled across the Italian Pils style.
I'm thinking of brewing a dry hopped warm fermented version with Diamond Lager. I only have Belgian pilsner malt but I guess that would be OK too.

Anyone have a decent Italian Pils recipe?

Thanks!

 

[HM-2]

I've got a planned imperial rice lager for when I'm back from holiday. 70% Pilsner, 20% flaked torrified rice, and 5% each Munich and CaraHell. 30 IBU of Sorachi Ace, with an ounce and a half in the whirlpool and two in a dry hop, plus some Yuzu peel.

I'm intending on using NovaLager at ~18-20°C and fermenting under about 8-10PSI of pressure. Target OG is circa 1.066 with a target FG of 1.010 and around 7.4% ABV.

What do you reckon the correct pitch rate would be? I was guessing 3-4 packs.

 

[dmtaylor]

I've got a planned imperial rice lager for when I'm back from holiday. 70% Pilsner, 20% flaked torrified rice, and 5% each Munich and CaraHell. 30 IBU of Sorachi Ace, with an ounce and a half in the whirlpool and two in a dry hop, plus some Yuzu peel.

I'm intending on using NovaLager at ~18-20°C and fermenting under about 8-10PSI of pressure. Target OG is circa 1.066 with a target FG of 1.010 and around 7.4% ABV.

What do you reckon the correct pitch rate would be? I was guessing 3-4 packs.

For 5 gallons (19 L)? At 18-20 C? One pack is plenty. Unless you like wasting money.

 

[HM-2]

For 5 gallons (19 L)? At 18-20 C? One pack is plenty. Unless you like wasting money.

6.5 gal, 1.066 OG. Lallemand 's pitch calculator says 2 packs so that's what I'll do.