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Warm Fermented Lager Thread

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InspectorJon

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I can't seem to figure out how to search this thread, so apologies in advance, but...

Has anyone tried fermenting WLP838/WY2308/Lallemand Diamond warm?
Just wanted to chime in that I made a Munich Dunkel with Lallemand Diamond Lager yeast, fermented at 65*F. I was in a rush: I kegged it on day 6 of fermentation after fermentation was done and the yeast was starting to flocc out. Burst carbonated and gelatine-d in the keg.

Pulled a small glass last night, and it was clear, lager-like, and delicious. Add this one to the list of warm ferment compatible yeasts.
 

makisupapolice14

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So many posts, I’m sure this has been inquired about several times already. I have a packet of s189 I’m thinking about fermenting warm in a Schwarzbier this weekend. Anyone successfully ferment this in the lower to middle 60s? What was your pitch temp and fermentation schedule?

If it’s a bad idea I have plenty of 34/70 on hand.
I’ve used 34/70 a bunch of times and love the result but I’ve heard good things about s-189 in malty/dark lagers. Thanks in advance.
 
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I’m just finishing up fermenting a German Pils, used WLP 830, fermented at 64f for 4 days, now slowly ramping temp up to 72 for D rest and tp make sure it dries out....Ill report back with my results

Everything Ive read at Brulosphy tells me that it should be great
 

InspectorJon

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Christmas Eve doppelbock. Using S-189. It is sitting at 64 degrees now and started bubbling a bit 4 hours after pitching.
View attachment 658643
Doppelbock brewed Christmas Eve. Efficiency kind got the better of me doing a step mash. Ended up 9.9%. Fermented with s-189 and it keeps getting better as time goes by. Unfortunately its a bit under-carbed.
upload_2020-4-23_18-44-13.jpeg
 
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I’m just finishing up fermenting a German Pils, used WLP 830, fermented at 64f for 4 days, now slowly ramping temp up to 72 for D rest and tp make sure it dries out....Ill report back with my results

Everything Ive read at Brulosphy tells me that it should be great
Follow up:

FG was 1.005 at day 7, cold crashed to 32f, fined with gelatin for ~24 hours and then kegged with force carb

on Day 10 s/p brew day, beer was clear and delicious from the tap

this Weihenstephan yeast is a beast! No off flavors with ale ferment temps
 

CaddyWampus

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I Brewed up my second “warm lager” and my first with 34/70. Pitched around 65F as I was ready for bed and didn’t want to wait for 62F. Been rolling right along at 62F and it’s got a nice krausen going. I will update as the beer progresses.
I bottled this beer today. FG was 1.008 which was right on target. It tasted great with 0 off flavors after fermenting at 62F with a d-rest at 68F for 3 days. I can't wait to try it after its carbed up!
 

TrickyDick

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HUGE thread.

Been on a bit of a brewing hiatus since really 2014. A bit rusty, but made a IPA from a kit and a Scottish Ale. Both suffered because my fermentation temp controller died because it had been so long since I had used it.
While waiting on parts, temp climbed quite high (both ale yeasts). I slapped a Spunding valve on each fermenter to ferment under some pressure which I heard does wonders. Well it saved the beers. The first I thought I would dump. The second

So the point of my reply is, without reading this entire thread, can we see if anyone using the hot lager fermentation method is ALSO doing the fermentation under pressurization?

Personally, for me, every homebrew I tried to rush from brew day to glass in under 6 weeks has not been as good as it was by six weeks.

I love the cheap factor of smaller pitch. Living in FL need to use only dry yeast (topic for a different thread).
 

Northern_Brewer

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Don't think this has been posted, Fermentis have done some experiments to demonstrate the robustness of 34/70 to different temperatures (and pitch rates etc) :


Just for translation :
12 Plato = 1.048 SG, 16 Plato = 1.065, 20 Plato = 1.083
12°C = 54°F, 16°C = 61°F, 20°C = 68°F
100g/hL = 20g in 20 litres = 18.9g in 5 US gallons = 2/3oz in 5 US gallons

Standard Fermentis pack size is 11.5g, so effectively what they're saying is most of their tests were pitching 2 packs per homebrew, C5* is 4 packs per homebrew, C6 is half a pack of yeast per homebrew - and sees an increase (more than doubling?) in "off notes" that is the only obvious variation in all the trials (apart from what's going on in "sweet" which I can't really see).
1589110892841.png

1589110905797.png
 
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ebbelwoi

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Wow. The consistency of those points in the sensory profile is really something to think about.

And Code C1: 1 gram per liter, 12P, 5 days at 20C/68F.

Thanks for posting this!
 

Chile Con Carne

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What’s up fellow brewers. I did a warm fermented Munich Helles with 34/70 yeast at 62 deg f Last week. I did a vitality starter with one pack of yeast before pitching. Started fermenting on the 12th hour. Fermentation seemed healthy. Checked final gravity days 5-7 And it was 1.008 all three days. So I ramped up the temp to 68 degrees for two days then cold crashed and kegged. Brew had a ton of sulfur odor when I kegged it. It’s day 11 and Took a sample and it still smells like rotten eggs. My question is this normal? Will time and cold temps scrub the sulpher away? Also what’s the recommended pitch rate when using 34/70 for warm fermented lager? One pack enough for a 5 gallon batch?
 

danimal92sport

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I’ve heard that you may need to purge the headspace often to let out the sulfur that has degassed. I’m going through this with a Belgian ale in a fermenter and decided not to package yet for the same reason.

Dan
 

LokiM4

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What’s up fellow brewers. I did a warm fermented Munich Helles with 34/70 yeast at 62 deg f Last week. I did a vitality starter with one pack of yeast before pitching. Started fermenting on the 12th hour. Fermentation seemed healthy. Checked final gravity days 5-7 And it was 1.008 all three days. So I ramped up the temp to 68 degrees for two days then cold crashed and kegged. Brew had a ton of sulfur odor when I kegged it. It’s day 11 and Took a sample and it still smells like rotten eggs. My question is this normal? Will time and cold temps scrub the sulpher away? Also what’s the recommended pitch rate when using 34/70 for warm fermented lager? One pack enough for a 5 gallon batch?
Fermentis will say that they recommend 2 packs for a 5 gal batch as the lager pitch rate dictates it-I think they are even quoted above in this thread. That said I think the Brulosophy folks did a test of just that, 1 pack vs an over pitch of some large degree. It had no effect.

I think your sulphur smells have been caused by something else to be honest-but fortunately they should age out-set it up to lager cool to cold for a few weeks or more and check it again.
 

Chile Con Carne

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Fermentis will say that they recommend 2 packs for a 5 gal batch as the lager pitch rate dictates it-I think they are even quoted above in this thread. That said I think the Brulosophy folks did a test of just that, 1 pack vs an over pitch of some large degree. It had no effect.

I think your sulphur smells have been caused by something else to be honest-but fortunately they should age out-set it up to lager cool to cold for a few weeks or more and check it again.
Will do. I assumed because I was fermenting warm like an ale brew I would only need one pack of yeast maybe I under pitched?
 

LokiM4

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it's fine as a warm lager you don't need the extra yeast, tried and true by me many times
Very true-however Fermentis was specifically asked this and their reply was that 2 packs were still required.

Thus it’s up to the brewer to determine how they want to proceed-and if the savings or cost of that second package of yeast is worth the possibility of an off batch. Lots of folks, as evidenced by your post, do so with no issues but then there are some that have issues that may be from under pitching.

Its also likely that there is another issue at play here, grain bill-old grains, brands of grain, many things could have caused the OP’s issues...
 
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Very true-however Fermentis was specifically asked this and their reply was that 2 packs were still required.

Thus it’s up to the brewer to determine how they want to proceed-and if the savings or cost of that second package of yeast is worth the possibility of an off batch. Lots of folks, as evidenced by your post, do so with no issues but then there are some that have issues that may be from under pitching.

Its also likely that there is another issue at play here, grain bill-old grains, brands of grain, many things could have caused the OP’s issues...
well said, I have to say my findings are also with advanced equipment and decades of brewing so I cant say that across the board from a beginner to advanced brewing levels that my findings are set in stone, it's just a remembrance of several times where i used one pack fermenting at 60F to 72F and the beer was amazing. many things could change that for a beginner, I've certainly had my share over time
 

Chile Con Carne

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So how often do you get a Warm fermented lager brew with excessive sulpher? And what’s your procedure with reducing or eliminating it? Should you leave in fermenter until it dissipates? I kegged it because FG reading was same several day’s in a row.
 

Localhopper

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So how often do you get a Warm fermented lager brew with excessive sulpher? And what’s your procedure with reducing or eliminating it? Should you leave in fermenter until it dissipates? I kegged it because FG reading was same several day’s in a row.
last time I let mine sit for another week or two. It eventually faded out.Then in the keg started out good and the last pint was just great.

Side note,I have heard this rumour about adding copper penny’s or storing with a copper rod for fixing sulphur smell but have yet to try it.
Here is a link about some people’s attempts.

 

Miraculix

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So how often do you get a Warm fermented lager brew with excessive sulpher? And what’s your procedure with reducing or eliminating it? Should you leave in fermenter until it dissipates? I kegged it because FG reading was same several day’s in a row.
Never had sulfur I'm afraid... Only very little in a pleasant way with mangrove Jack California lager.
 

Chile Con Carne

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last time I let mine sit for another week or two. It eventually faded out.Then in the keg started out good and the last pint was just great.

Side note,I have heard this rumour about adding copper penny’s or storing with a copper rod for fixing sulphur smell but have yet to try it.
Here is a link about some people’s attempts.

Wow interesting
 

Chile Con Carne

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I hope it gets better. One thing the beer is still not clear. I used gelatin when I kegged it so I hope the sulpher dissipates when it clears.
 

seatazzz

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I've got a WF lager going right now, that I'm fermenting with Lallemand Diamond Lager yeast. Can't get any of my usual go-to yeast for WF lagers (Fermentis S-23) so giving this one a try. Manufacturer says top range is 59, I've had it at 64-66 for a week and it took a bit longer for the krausen to drop than s-23, but it's looking good so far. Going out of town this weekend so I'll give it a test on Monday when we get home (brewed last Sunday).
 

LokiM4

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I've got a WF lager going right now, that I'm fermenting with Lallemand Diamond Lager yeast. Can't get any of my usual go-to yeast for WF lagers (Fermentis S-23) so giving this one a try. Manufacturer says top range is 59, I've had it at 64-66 for a week and it took a bit longer for the krausen to drop than s-23, but it's looking good so far. Going out of town this weekend so I'll give it a test on Monday when we get home (brewed last Sunday).
Good luck, let us know how it turns out!
 

balrog

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So how often do you get a Warm fermented lager brew with excessive sulpher? And what’s your procedure with reducing or eliminating it? Should you leave in fermenter until it dissipates? I kegged it because FG reading was same several day’s in a row.
Twice recently I got sulfur. They were not warm ferm, but a cream ale and a blue moon, both done with WY1007 overbuild generation 5 and 8 respectively. Generation 6 & 7 were fine. THe sulfur was more pronounced in the keg than in fermenter.

I took a piece of 3/8 copper tubing, cleaned with PBW, wire brush, acid, oven bake, and wave some magic crystals over it for good measure. Placed in glass during pour from keg, eliminated sulfur. Was very off putting to BIL but he's a big wuss. I prefer to make without sulfur, for the record.
 
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I've never had a sulfur smell or taste from a warm lager, it comes from fermenting very cold, at the same time I now make a lager type of beer with hothead yeast so I no longer use 34/70, if you ferment Hothead starting at 72 then raising to 85 you will get a very clean beer
 

cmac62

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kegged up my latest WF and used 1 each of 34/70 and Diamond. So far I cant tell there are any issues. It tastes good. I also keg hopped it with 1 oz Saas. For the first few days it was in the garage at 66-68 then it got warm and had to move it into the house which is usually kept around 72-75. Then I got lazy and it sat there for about 3 wks. I guess the extended time in primary maybe helped the yeast deal with any possible off flavors. I'll try it again tonight. :mug:
 

brewswithshoes

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I've got a WF lager going right now, that I'm fermenting with Lallemand Diamond Lager yeast. Can't get any of my usual go-to yeast for WF lagers (Fermentis S-23) so giving this one a try. Manufacturer says top range is 59, I've had it at 64-66 for a week and it took a bit longer for the krausen to drop than s-23, but it's looking good so far. Going out of town this weekend so I'll give it a test on Monday when we get home (brewed last Sunday).
I'm curious how long your lag time was for the diamond yeast. First time using it and I'm about 36 hours into fermentation and it's only dropped about 3 points from a 1.051OG. maybe I'm impatient but not the "vigorous" fermentation that the description says. I am fermenting a little cooler than u did. I'm currently at 53F.

Curious if this is normal lag? I don't Brew a lot of lagers and first time with this yeast.
 

seatazzz

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I think mine took off within 16 hours. However, I do a vitality starter with new dry yeast and that may have been the kicker.

I would warm it up a bit, maybe to 60. Lager yeast at traditional "lager" temperatures are slow to start, unless you overpitch. Did you use just one packet? As long as you have something going on, warming it up (I would do it gradually, a couple degrees every 12 hours) should get them going. YMMV.
 

seatazzz

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Good luck, let us know how it turns out!
Just tapped it today. VERY impressed with this yeast; it flocced out well, and the flavor is quite nice. Nothing off, gave the beer a nice lager 'bite', and super clean. I'll be doing another one in a couple weeks with the slurry from this one, and will report back.

I should note here that when I use fresh dry yeast for a lager, I always do a vitality starter so I don't have to pitch more than one packet; it works well for me. As noted above, DO NOT use first runnings for this, but wait until you're on the boil and take some then. The hour and a bit that the wort needs to boil/chill is plenty of time for the yeast to get started.
 

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Does anyone have experience fermenting wy2007/wlp840 (reportedly Budweiser's strain) in the mid 60's? I usually use 34/70 but I'm looking to try something new. Just don't want to waste my time and money if someone's already tried it with bad results
 

nathanscrivener

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Don't think this has been posted, Fermentis have done some experiments to demonstrate the robustness of 34/70 to different temperatures (and pitch rates etc) :


Just for translation :
12 Plato = 1.048 SG, 16 Plato = 1.065, 20 Plato = 1.083
12°C = 54°F, 16°C = 61°F, 20°C = 68°F
100g/hL = 20g in 20 litres = 18.9g in 5 US gallons = 2/3oz in 5 US gallons

Standard Fermentis pack size is 11.5g, so effectively what they're saying is most of their tests were pitching 2 packs per homebrew, C5* is 4 packs per homebrew, C6 is half a pack of yeast per homebrew - and sees an increase (more than doubling?) in "off notes" that is the only obvious variation in all the trials (apart from what's going on in "sweet" which I can't really see).
Just to confirm, 100g / hL is equivalent to 2 standard packs per 5 gallon brew, not 4 as stated. The pilot study results demonstrate that 1 pack of yeast will ferment cleanly at between 61F and 68F for a 5 gallon batch, as long as the SG is around 1.048.
 
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