Wanting to try something new. Kveik anyone?

[TNJake]

Here's a TILT log I did on Hornindal Kveik:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...S1_8cQ6QuJ3nnqCdy_S1g0pSUk/edit#gid=189348009
It goes from 1.063 SG to 1.017 (target FG is 1.016 for a hard lemonade) in very close to 24 hours at 87F, at which point I put it in the refrigerator. If you click on the "Chart" tab, it will plot the data to make it easier for you to visualize.

Excellent! I just got a Tilt and am using it for the first time. (Its on my YYZ beer though. Basically, a lager fermented at ale temps using Wyeast 2112).
I have been curious what a Kveik yeast would look like plotted out. I see the refrigeration stage and wonder how much dryer that would have gotten?
Will you risk bottle bombs if those get warm?

 

[NeverDie]

Excellent! I just got a Tilt and am using it for the first time. (Its on my YYZ beer though. Basically, a lager fermented at ale temps using Wyeast 2112).
I have been curious what a Kveik yeast would look like plotted out. I see the refrigeration stage and wonder how much dryer that would have gotten?
Will you risk bottle bombs if those get warm?

Considering that rate of attenuation, I think quite a bit dryer.

As to bottle bombs, I would guess yes. I don't think the refrigeration was cold enough or fast enough to really kill it. I've had various kveik's seemingly continue to ferment even in the refrigerator, so I either need to change how I chill it (faster and colder?) or I may have to resort to chemicals like postassium sorbate to at least slow it down. Either that, or the very act of chilling it somehow changes the flavor, which I'm beginning to think may be true.

Should I try dry ice? I could drop it directly in and there'd be no residual when it's done. The local supermarket sells it.

 

[TNJake]

Well, it depends on your taste I suppose. For mine, it hit the target FG, but it tasted dryer than what I wanted for a hard lemonade, which is what this was for. So, I'm adding more sweetness back into it. I think 1.030, or therabouts, is probably more to my taste, now that I've tasted it both ways. Most people on this forum seem to prefer dry stuff though. You may notice that the SG rose slightly after the refrigeration started, and that's because I added the lemon juice at that point.

As to bottle bombs, I would guess yes. I don't think the refrigeration was cold enough or fast enough to really kill it. I've had various kveik's seemingly continue to ferment even in the refrigerator, so I either need to change how I chill it (faster and colder?) or I may have to resort to chemicals like postassium sorbate to at least slow it down. Either that, or the very act of chilling it somehow changes the flavor, which I'm beginning to think may be true.

Should I try dry ice? I could drop it directly in and there'd be no residual when it's done. The local supermarket sells it.

I don't think you want to do that, dry ice can actually be full of bacteria. They are not killed by the cold, just put into hibernation.

 

[NeverDie]

I don't think you want to do that, dry ice can actually be full of bacteria. They are not killed by the cold, just put into hibernation.

Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[TNJake]

One thing I learned from that chart is just how slow my refrigerator is at cooling down a liquid. It's not even very much liquid: just 5 cups.

I do hope more people post their TILT graphs. It really helps to see what's going on, especially the rate at which things are happening. I think if I could compare my charts to, say, a gold medalist's charts, it might help me improve.

Like the "How to Brew" book says, if you want to clone a beer (or wine or mead or whatever), it's not enough to clone the ingredients. You have to clone the fermentation too. It's hard to troubleshoot a recipe without that information. And the more charts you have, the quicker you can see when things start to go off the rails.

Yeah, I don't think your fridge is doing much but slowing them a bit. I have another proposal though, how about just raising your OG to account for the avg. apparent attenuation?
If you want a FG of 1.016 and you are going to use Hornindal Kveik which I am reading as 75-82% attenuation you may want like a 1.080 OG.
With an avg. attenuation of 78.5% that should leave you with a FG of 1.016 and 8.4% Alc by Volume.
At or around that point they may finally give up and save you the trouble.

 

[TNJake]

of course if the kveik is especially vigorous at that 82% high end then you may want to go up to something like 1.095 OG and get a 10.3% panty dropper

 

[NeverDie]

Yeah, I don't think your fridge is doing much but slowing them a bit. I have another proposal though, how about just raising your OG to account for the avg. apparent attenuation?
If you want a FG of 1.016 and you are going to use Hornindal Kveik which I am reading as 75-82% attenuation you may want like a 1.080 OG.
With an avg. attenuation of 78.5% that should leave you with a FG of 1.016 and 8.4% Alc by Volume.
At or around that point they may finally give up and save you the trouble.

Is 8.4% the magic number? I've often wondered about this.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I just finished a batch of Voss that was split Kolsch wort. The beer actually has a smoky finish. I think this in an American Brown would nice.

 

[NeverDie]

Well, partially answering my own question, this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3833160/
indicates that with plenty of glucose available, yeast will ferment alcohol even if there's adequate oxygen. To maximize reproduction, one needs to limit their access to food and then stagger additions as they use it up so that it's always kept somewhat limited.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Well, partially answering my own question, this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3833160/
indicates that with plenty of glucose available, yeast will ferment alcohol even if there's adequate oxygen. To maximize reproduction, one needs to limit their access to food and then stagger additions as they use it up so that it's always kept somewhat limited.

This is actually what Fermentis and Lallemand do. They have the equipment to measure nutrient levels and a whole host of other things so what they do is slowly stagger just enough food to keep the yeast going but minimize or avoid fermentation. Their cultures result in a really thick slurry. It's pretty awesome.

 

[Coastalbrew]

I'm very interested in the prospect of extending my brewing season with these warm fermenting yeast strains. Besides Neipa, what other styles have people had success brewing with these yeast? Has anyone tried Irish red, esb, or any simple smash recipes?

 

[NGD]

I'm very interested in the prospect of extending my brewing season with these warm fermenting yeast strains. Besides Neipa, what other styles have people had success brewing with these yeast? Has anyone tried Irish red, esb, or any simple smash recipes?

My next smash is going to be saved Voss or fresh Lithuanian. I haven’t quite worked out the hop schedule yet. Plus getting my fermenter up to temp right now will be a bit of a challenge.

 

[Coastalbrew]

I'm looking for some recipes that would pair well with this yeast strain that don't fall into the uber hoppy family.

Any ideas?

 

[505-Brewer]

ESB would probably pair well

 

[Beer666]

I knocked this up the other day;

no boil wheat
2kg lager
2kg wheat
500g oat malt
300g caragold

15g of magnum boiled for 20m
50g citra steeped at 75c

fermenting it at 38c.
Will dry hop and keg hop with citra and el dorado

 

[Beer666]

I'm very interested in the prospect of extending my brewing season with these warm fermenting yeast strains. Besides Neipa, what other styles have people had success brewing with these yeast? Has anyone tried Irish red, esb, or any simple smash recipes?

Good for RIS

 

[Beer666]

2g of 10% alpha hops boiled in 2l 1.04 wort for 30 min gives you about 20 ibus.

Isn't that meant to be 20g?

 

[Miraculix]

Isn't that meant to be 20g?

No, as I am talking about two litres of wort.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm looking for some recipes that would pair well with this yeast strain that don't fall into the uber hoppy family.

Any ideas?

Just brew an ale, throw in hops at 60 min for 25 to 30 ibus, use only base malt and up to ten percent medium Crystal, or skip the Crystal completely. Ferment HOT, pitch a teaspoon of slurry, not more and let the yeast shine

 

[hottpeper13]

Couldn't you use a dehydrator with sanitized parchment paper, and treat it like a fruit roll up?

 

[Coastalbrew]

Just brew an ale, throw in hops at 60 min for 25 to 30 ibus, use only base malt and up to ten percent medium Crystal, or skip the Crystal completely. Ferment HOT, pitch a teaspoon of slurry, not more and let the yeast shine

Do you suggest any particular hop and hop schedule?

 

[Miraculix]

Do you suggest any particular hop and hop schedule?

If it shouldn't be hop forward,I would just use something like magnum for bittering and if you feel like adding a bit of hop flavour, maybe some saaz at 10 min left in the boil.

Or if you want to keep it American, use something like cascade instead of the saaz, but the American hops can get very easily get very dominant. Therefore I would go with something European like saaz or maybe English goldings.

 

[TNJake]

@Miraculix I think I have previously run across a post of yours on the warm fermented lager thread about using Kveik. Have you by chance ever made something light and citrusy?

 

[Coastalbrew]

If it shouldn't be hop forward,I would just use something like magnum for bittering and if you feel like adding a bit of hop flavour, maybe some saaz at 10 min left in the boil.

Or if you want to keep it American, use something like cascade instead of the saaz, but the American hops can get very easily get very dominant. Therefore I would go with something European like saaz or maybe English goldings.

OK, so what are your thoughts on this recipe?

OG: 1.048
FG: 1.010
Color: 4.2° SRM
Bitterness: 31.1 IBU
Alcohol: 5.0% ABV

5.5 G
60 min boil
9.5# 2 row
.5# Cara 10
.25# white wheat
Hops
.5 oz magnum @60
.5 oz magnum @10
.5 oz mandarina Bavaria @10
.5 oz mandarina Bavaria @fo

For yeast I'm thinking omega hot head OYL-057

Any feedback is appreciated!
Cheers

 

[Miraculix]

OK, so what are your thoughts on this recipe?

OG: 1.048
FG: 1.010
Color: 4.2° SRM
Bitterness: 31.1 IBU
Alcohol: 5.0% ABV

5.5 G
60 min boil
9.5# 2 row
.5# Cara 10
.25# white wheat
Hops
.5 oz magnum @60
.5 oz magnum @10
.5 oz mandarina Bavaria @10
.5 oz mandarina Bavaria @fo

For yeast I'm thinking omega hot head OYL-057

Any feedback is appreciated!
Cheers

If it shouldn't be hop forward, drop the fo addition and also the 10 minute magnum addition. In addition, you could even cut the 10 min Bavaria addition in half, but you don't have to if you want a bit more hop flavour.
Adjust your 60 min magnum addition accordingly, for the missing ibus.

Maybe you want to bring up the white wheat to 5 or even ten percent of the grain bill, I use ten percent most of the time, for head retention.

Otherwise looks good! Just a bit of fine tuning.

Try to ferment at the upper recommended range for the yeast, which is insanely high. Also underpitch to force the yeast to bring out the flavour.
If you haven't read it, read this http://www.garshol.priv.no/blog/393.html

Have fun!

 

[Coastalbrew]

If it shouldn't be hop forward, drop the fo addition and also the 10 minute magnum addition. In addition, you could even cut the 10 min Bavaria addition in half, but you don't have to if you want a bit more hop flavour.
Adjust your 60 min magnum addition accordingly, for the missing ibus.

Maybe you want to bring up the white wheat to 5 or even ten percent of the grain bill, I use ten percent most of the time, for head retention.

Otherwise looks good! Just a bit of fine tuning.

Try to ferment at the upper recommended range for the yeast, which is insanely high. Also underpitch to force the yeast to bring out the flavour.
If you haven't read it, read this http://www.garshol.priv.no/blog/393.html

Have fun!

Thanks for the advice. I upped the white wheat to a pound. I'm going to leave the hop schedule as is and see how it goes. I enjoy a little bit of hop flavor and aroma, just don't enjoy the extremely hoppy commercial beers that have become popular over the last few years. IBU's in the 30 range are perfect for my taste.

This will be a summer brew for me. Temps will get into the right fermentation range in a couple of months and I'll brew this up then. I'll post the results when it's all finished up.

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers!

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for the advice. I upped the white wheat to a pound. I'm going to leave the hop schedule as is and see how it goes. I enjoy a little bit of hop flavor and aroma, just don't enjoy the extremely hoppy commercial beers that have become popular over the last few years. IBU's in the 30 range are perfect for my taste.

This will be a summer brew for me. Temps will get into the right fermentation range in a couple of months and I'll brew this up then. I'll post the results when it's all finished up.

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers!

Sounds good them n, you're welcome!

Iamam still a bit unsure about the ten minute magnum addition. I never used magnum as a late addition, always thought about it is a good bittering hop without much aroma therefore a bit of a waste this late. But I actually never tried it, so let me know if it contributes something nice.

 

[TNJake]

If you haven't read it, read this http://www.garshol.priv.no/blog/393.html

Have fun!

Hey, thanks for the link with great info!

Thanks for the advice. I upped the white wheat to a pound. I'm going to leave the hop schedule as is and see how it goes. I enjoy a little bit of hop flavor and aroma, just don't enjoy the extremely hoppy commercial beers that have become popular over the last few years. IBU's in the 30 range are perfect for my taste.

This will be a summer brew for me. Temps will get into the right fermentation range in a couple of months and I'll brew this up then. I'll post the results when it's all finished up.

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers!

I'd be interesting in hearing your results as well!

 

[Coastalbrew]

Sounds good them n, you're welcome!

Iamam still a bit unsure about the ten minute magnum addition. I never used magnum as a late addition, always thought about it is a good bittering hop without much aroma therefore a bit of a waste this late. But I actually never tried it, so let me know if it contributes something nice.

I'll let you know how it turns out. I'm not sure if it really contributes much aroma either to be honest. But I hate wasting perfectly good hops and wanted to keep the bitterness lower on this recipe, so thought I would add it in the later addition for a lower IBU contribution and maybe get some aroma too.

I actually did the same thing in an American Amber I made a few weeks ago. It is still bottle conditioning right now. I plan on tasting it in a week or so. When I sampled it before adding the dry hops, it smelled and tasted great. I wasn't particularly stoked when I tasted the sample after adding the dry hops, but there was allot of sediment still in suspension and it was pretty"green" still. I think after a few weeks of bottle conditioning and chilling it will be a very nice beer. Hopefully this recipe will turn out good too. Isn't experimentation a wonderful thing?!
Cheers!

 

[Miraculix]

I'll let you know how it turns out. I'm not sure if it really contributes much aroma either to be honest. But I hate wasting perfectly good hops and wanted to keep the bitterness lower on this recipe, so thought I would add it in the later addition for a lower IBU contribution and maybe get some aroma too.

I actually did the same thing in an American Amber I made a few weeks ago. It is still bottle conditioning right now. I plan on tasting it in a week or so. When I sampled it before adding the dry hops, it smelled and tasted great. I wasn't particularly stoked when I tasted the sample after adding the dry hops, but there was allot of sediment still in suspension and it was pretty"green" still. I think after a few weeks of bottle conditioning and chilling it will be a very nice beer. Hopefully this recipe will turn out good too. Isn't experimentation a wonderful thing?!
Cheers!

Best is, right after fermenter and two or three weeks later can be a day and night difference... but it does not have to be