Wanting to try something new. Kveik anyone?

[NeverDie]

When you guys say to underpitch kveik, just how much of an underpitch are you talking about? 50%? 10%? 5%? What exactly?

 

[Jayjay1976]

I would love to know how that works out.

I really want to dry some myself, but ovens lowest temperature is 180F, and I'm kinda paranoid about open air drying. I'll try it eventually.

I'm facing the same challenge. Sounds like the perfect application for a food dehydrator.

 

[Miraculix]

Should I not worry about the large jar of starter slurry getting infected over time? I think I might be way too careful/paranoid about sanitation when it comes to stuff like this. I'll definitely dry some to save for later. I really like the idea of a yeast that can be saved dry, in my imagination I could bake some popsicle sticks to sanitize, then dip in slurry and hang dry. Store a bunch in the freezer in vacuum sealed pouches, pull one out on brew day and drop into the fermenter. Seems kinda authentic-ish, no?

Just make a hopped starter. Give it 20ish ibus and it will keep the nasties out.


I bought my voss from the yeast bay and it came in a little vile with a screw lid. I just pitched 1/3 of it in 17l and still have the rest inn the fridge.

How much underpitching? One teaspoon slurry on 5 gallon wort.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm facing the same challenge. Sounds like the perfect application for a food dehydrator.

I wouldn't use anything that blows air on it which can spread whatever is in the air. Just let it sit somewhere warm as a thin layer for some time, should be done quickly.

Maybe the oven with the light on and the heating off.

 

[Beer666]

I pitched 5ml of voss slurry into 25l of 1040 wort at 37c. It was bubbling away within 1 hour and fermentation finished after 36/48 hours. I have not noticed any difference when pitching more yeast but i don't exactly take detailed notes.

 

[NeverDie]

I pitched 5ml of voss slurry into 25l of 1040 wort at 37c. It was bubbling away within 1 hour and fermentation finished after 36/48 hours. I have not noticed any difference when pitching more yeast but i don't exactly take detailed notes.

How many ml of slury come in the package? If we know that, then we can work out the rest.

 

[beeton]

I pitched 5ml of voss slurry into 25l of 1040 wort at 37c. It was bubbling away within 1 hour and fermentation finished after 36/48 hours. I have not noticed any difference when pitching more yeast but i don't exactly take detailed notes.

yeast nutrient added?
What F.G. did it drop to?

 

[Beer666]

How many ml of slury come in the package? If we know that, then we can work out the rest.

This was harvested from a previous brew.

 

[Beer666]

yeast nutrient added?
What F.G. did it drop to?

I use wyeast beer nutrient for all my brews. FG was 1010.

 

[NeverDie]

How many ml of slury come in the package? If we know that, then we can work out the rest.

Answering my own question, I contacted Omega Labs, and there is 100ml of slurry per packet.

So, that implies that Beer666 pitched at most 5 billion yeast cells out of the 187 billion that a yeast calculator says he would need for his 6.6 gallons of 1040 OG ale. i.e. only 2.6% of the 187 billion. Wow. Is that consistent with the under-pitching rate that others here are also using for Kveik?

 

[mrdauber64]

I just finished brewing a batch with hornindal kveik yeast based on a recipe from a local brewpub in town (612Brew).
Here is the recipe I used:
16lbs 2 row
2 lbs Rye Malt
1 lbs. Flaked Rye

3 ML hopshot at 60 min
1 oz Styrian Golding at 20 min
1 oz crushed Dried Juniper berries at 2 min.

Pitch at 75 degrees and let free rise to 100.

I tried the version at the brewery and loved what the yeast brought to the table(very fruity and at 9.2%, very drinkable!

I'm looking forward to how this turns out!

I plan to save the yeast 5 ways to see which works best!
- Top crop in jar
- Top crop and smear on parchment paper to dry it
- I created a yeast "block" out of a piece of oak and drilled a bunch of holes in it. I plan to dip this into the yeast slurry and dry it. This is the traditional way to to save yeast in Norway
- Save the bottom slurry in a jar
- smear the bottom slurry on parchment paper and dry it.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Just make a hopped starter. Give it 20ish ibus and it will keep the nasties out.

Do you have more info on how to achieve 20 IBU in a 2L starter? How long does it need to boil?

 

[TNJake]

I just finished brewing a batch with hornindal kveik yeast based on a recipe from a local brewpub in town (612Brew).
Here is the recipe I used:
16lbs 2 row
2 lbs Rye Malt
1 lbs. Flaked Rye

3 ML hopshot at 60 min
1 oz Styrian Golding at 20 min
1 oz crushed Dried Juniper berries at 2 min.

Pitch at 75 degrees and let free rise to 100.

I tried the version at the brewery and loved what the yeast brought to the table(very fruity and at 9.2%, very drinkable!

I'm looking forward to how this turns out!

I plan to save the yeast 5 ways to see which works best!
- Top crop in jar
- Top crop and smear on parchment paper to dry it
- I created a yeast "block" out of a piece of oak and drilled a bunch of holes in it. I plan to dip this into the yeast slurry and dry it. This is the traditional way to to save yeast in Norway
- Save the bottom slurry in a jar
- smear the bottom slurry on parchment paper and dry it.

Please let us know the results of... well, all of this.
Great stuff!

 

[TNJake]

I would love to know how that works out.

I really want to dry some myself, but ovens lowest temperature is 180F, and I'm kinda paranoid about open air drying. I'll try it eventually.

You could always heat up the oven and turn it off then add yeast covered wood or paper or whatever when the heat came down to a safe level.

 

[Staylow]

You could always heat up the oven and turn it off then add yeast covered wood or paper or whatever when the heat came down to a safe level.

I thought about that, but I doubt it would stay warm long enough to finish the job, requiring multiple turns.

 

[NeverDie]

https://sf.eater.com/2019/2/1/18206487/san-franicsco-beer-week-norwegian-kveik-yeast

 

[MyQuL]

We have a huge kviek thread over on HBT's UK sister site THBF. Some of our member are very keen on kviek. Personallly I only use it when it's too hot in the summer to use anything else

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/kveik.75453/

 

[Miraculix]

Do you have more info on how to achieve 20 IBU in a 2L starter? How long does it need to boil?

2g of 10% alpha hops boiled in 2l 1.04 wort for 30 min gives you about 20 ibus.

 

[mrdauber64]

I just finished brewing a batch with hornindal kveik yeast based on a recipe from a local brewpub in town (612Brew).
Here is the recipe I used:
16lbs 2 row
2 lbs Rye Malt
1 lbs. Flaked Rye

3 ML hopshot at 60 min
1 oz Styrian Golding at 20 min
1 oz crushed Dried Juniper berries at 2 min.

Pitch at 75 degrees and let free rise to 100.

I tried the version at the brewery and loved what the yeast brought to the table(very fruity and at 9.2%, very drinkable!

I'm looking forward to how this turns out!

I plan to save the yeast 5 ways to see which works best!
- Top crop in jar
- Top crop and smear on parchment paper to dry it
- I created a yeast "block" out of a piece of oak and drilled a bunch of holes in it. I plan to dip this into the yeast slurry and dry it. This is the traditional way to to save yeast in Norway
- Save the bottom slurry in a jar
- smear the bottom slurry on parchment paper and dry it.

Just an update, after 24 hours a nice big Krausen formed so I took my first two yeast croppings off the top. Got a pint jar full of yeast and a smearing on tin foil that is drying in my basement now. The beer is currently fermenting at 76 and rising.

 

[NeverDie]

Here's a TILT log I did on Hornindal Kveik:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...S1_8cQ6QuJ3nnqCdy_S1g0pSUk/edit#gid=189348009
It goes from 1.063 SG to 1.017 (target FG is 1.016 for a hard lemonade) in very close to 24 hours at 87F, at which point I put it in the refrigerator. If you click on the "Chart" tab, it will plot the data to make it easier for you to visualize.

 

[TNJake]

Here's a TILT log I did on Hornindal Kveik:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...S1_8cQ6QuJ3nnqCdy_S1g0pSUk/edit#gid=189348009
It goes from 1.063 SG to 1.017 (target FG is 1.016 for a hard lemonade) in very close to 24 hours at 87F, at which point I put it in the refrigerator. If you click on the "Chart" tab, it will plot the data to make it easier for you to visualize.

Excellent! I just got a Tilt and am using it for the first time. (Its on my YYZ beer though. Basically, a lager fermented at ale temps using Wyeast 2112).
I have been curious what a Kveik yeast would look like plotted out. I see the refrigeration stage and wonder how much dryer that would have gotten?
Will you risk bottle bombs if those get warm?

 

[NeverDie]

Excellent! I just got a Tilt and am using it for the first time. (Its on my YYZ beer though. Basically, a lager fermented at ale temps using Wyeast 2112).
I have been curious what a Kveik yeast would look like plotted out. I see the refrigeration stage and wonder how much dryer that would have gotten?
Will you risk bottle bombs if those get warm?

Considering that rate of attenuation, I think quite a bit dryer.

As to bottle bombs, I would guess yes. I don't think the refrigeration was cold enough or fast enough to really kill it. I've had various kveik's seemingly continue to ferment even in the refrigerator, so I either need to change how I chill it (faster and colder?) or I may have to resort to chemicals like postassium sorbate to at least slow it down. Either that, or the very act of chilling it somehow changes the flavor, which I'm beginning to think may be true.

Should I try dry ice? I could drop it directly in and there'd be no residual when it's done. The local supermarket sells it.

 

[TNJake]

Well, it depends on your taste I suppose. For mine, it hit the target FG, but it tasted dryer than what I wanted for a hard lemonade, which is what this was for. So, I'm adding more sweetness back into it. I think 1.030, or therabouts, is probably more to my taste, now that I've tasted it both ways. Most people on this forum seem to prefer dry stuff though. You may notice that the SG rose slightly after the refrigeration started, and that's because I added the lemon juice at that point.

As to bottle bombs, I would guess yes. I don't think the refrigeration was cold enough or fast enough to really kill it. I've had various kveik's seemingly continue to ferment even in the refrigerator, so I either need to change how I chill it (faster and colder?) or I may have to resort to chemicals like postassium sorbate to at least slow it down. Either that, or the very act of chilling it somehow changes the flavor, which I'm beginning to think may be true.

Should I try dry ice? I could drop it directly in and there'd be no residual when it's done. The local supermarket sells it.

I don't think you want to do that, dry ice can actually be full of bacteria. They are not killed by the cold, just put into hibernation.

 

[NeverDie]

I don't think you want to do that, dry ice can actually be full of bacteria. They are not killed by the cold, just put into hibernation.

Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[TNJake]

One thing I learned from that chart is just how slow my refrigerator is at cooling down a liquid. It's not even very much liquid: just 5 cups.

I do hope more people post their TILT graphs. It really helps to see what's going on, especially the rate at which things are happening. I think if I could compare my charts to, say, a gold medalist's charts, it might help me improve.

Like the "How to Brew" book says, if you want to clone a beer (or wine or mead or whatever), it's not enough to clone the ingredients. You have to clone the fermentation too. It's hard to troubleshoot a recipe without that information. And the more charts you have, the quicker you can see when things start to go off the rails.

Yeah, I don't think your fridge is doing much but slowing them a bit. I have another proposal though, how about just raising your OG to account for the avg. apparent attenuation?
If you want a FG of 1.016 and you are going to use Hornindal Kveik which I am reading as 75-82% attenuation you may want like a 1.080 OG.
With an avg. attenuation of 78.5% that should leave you with a FG of 1.016 and 8.4% Alc by Volume.
At or around that point they may finally give up and save you the trouble.

 

[TNJake]

of course if the kveik is especially vigorous at that 82% high end then you may want to go up to something like 1.095 OG and get a 10.3% panty dropper

 

[NeverDie]

Yeah, I don't think your fridge is doing much but slowing them a bit. I have another proposal though, how about just raising your OG to account for the avg. apparent attenuation?
If you want a FG of 1.016 and you are going to use Hornindal Kveik which I am reading as 75-82% attenuation you may want like a 1.080 OG.
With an avg. attenuation of 78.5% that should leave you with a FG of 1.016 and 8.4% Alc by Volume.
At or around that point they may finally give up and save you the trouble.

Is 8.4% the magic number? I've often wondered about this.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I just finished a batch of Voss that was split Kolsch wort. The beer actually has a smoky finish. I think this in an American Brown would nice.

 

[NeverDie]

Well, partially answering my own question, this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3833160/
indicates that with plenty of glucose available, yeast will ferment alcohol even if there's adequate oxygen. To maximize reproduction, one needs to limit their access to food and then stagger additions as they use it up so that it's always kept somewhat limited.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Well, partially answering my own question, this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3833160/
indicates that with plenty of glucose available, yeast will ferment alcohol even if there's adequate oxygen. To maximize reproduction, one needs to limit their access to food and then stagger additions as they use it up so that it's always kept somewhat limited.

This is actually what Fermentis and Lallemand do. They have the equipment to measure nutrient levels and a whole host of other things so what they do is slowly stagger just enough food to keep the yeast going but minimize or avoid fermentation. Their cultures result in a really thick slurry. It's pretty awesome.

 

[Coastalbrew]

I'm very interested in the prospect of extending my brewing season with these warm fermenting yeast strains. Besides Neipa, what other styles have people had success brewing with these yeast? Has anyone tried Irish red, esb, or any simple smash recipes?

 

[NGD]

I'm very interested in the prospect of extending my brewing season with these warm fermenting yeast strains. Besides Neipa, what other styles have people had success brewing with these yeast? Has anyone tried Irish red, esb, or any simple smash recipes?

My next smash is going to be saved Voss or fresh Lithuanian. I haven’t quite worked out the hop schedule yet. Plus getting my fermenter up to temp right now will be a bit of a challenge.

 

[Coastalbrew]

I'm looking for some recipes that would pair well with this yeast strain that don't fall into the uber hoppy family.

Any ideas?

 

[505-Brewer]

ESB would probably pair well

 

[Beer666]

I knocked this up the other day;

no boil wheat
2kg lager
2kg wheat
500g oat malt
300g caragold

15g of magnum boiled for 20m
50g citra steeped at 75c

fermenting it at 38c.
Will dry hop and keg hop with citra and el dorado

 

[Beer666]

I'm very interested in the prospect of extending my brewing season with these warm fermenting yeast strains. Besides Neipa, what other styles have people had success brewing with these yeast? Has anyone tried Irish red, esb, or any simple smash recipes?

Good for RIS

 

[Beer666]

2g of 10% alpha hops boiled in 2l 1.04 wort for 30 min gives you about 20 ibus.

Isn't that meant to be 20g?

 

[Miraculix]

Isn't that meant to be 20g?

No, as I am talking about two litres of wort.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm looking for some recipes that would pair well with this yeast strain that don't fall into the uber hoppy family.

Any ideas?

Just brew an ale, throw in hops at 60 min for 25 to 30 ibus, use only base malt and up to ten percent medium Crystal, or skip the Crystal completely. Ferment HOT, pitch a teaspoon of slurry, not more and let the yeast shine

 

[hottpeper13]

Couldn't you use a dehydrator with sanitized parchment paper, and treat it like a fruit roll up?