American IPA Trilium Melcher Street Clone

[makubex]

@makubex, it's been pretty widely confirmed by the brewer himself on other forums, then also in their "official" BYO article about Fort Point.

Awesome, greatly appreciated. Just pulled the trigger on a pound of columbus. Gonna give this a try.

 

[rtracer]

One charge! 3 days post pitch. Rack to keg 7 days post pitch.

Interesting, I think I want to try this our next week. I've had good success with braufessors NE IPA.

Can you post an updated grain bill? Seems you have changed it a bit.

Brew, dry hop on day 3 and keg on day 7. I figure carb for a week, then enjoy

 

[OdeCloner]

Here's an updated recipe. This is my current best snapshot.

Grains
2 Row - 70%
Flaked Wheat - 18%
Crystal 15 - 5%
CaraPils - 3%
Dextrose - 4%
Mash @ 150F

Yeast
Wyeast 1318 - London Ale III

Hops
Boil Hops:
Columbus - .5oz - 60min
Columbus - 1oz - 10min
Columbus - 3oz - Hop Stand

Dry Hops:
(Add to Primary 3 days post-pitch. Rack off of hops to serving keg 7 days post pitch.)
Columbus - 1.5oz
Mosaic - 8oz

Note, I've dry hopped a number of different ways. Although it's not true to Melcher Street, my current favorite is this:
Columbus - 1.5oz
Mosaic - 4oz
Citra - 4oz

Also love...
Columbus - 1.5oz
Amarillo - 4oz
Simcoe - 4oz

Recipe Stats
60 minute mash, 60 minute boil, hop stand of 20-30mins (or however patient I can be!)
OG: 1.075 / FG: 1.019 (although usually this finishes around 1.013-1.014)
75% attenuation for 7.4% ABV
25 IBUs (but, really, who knows)
150ppm Sulfate and Chloride

I shoot for 7.5gal post-boil to account for the massive hop loss in both the kettle and fermenter. It's not uncommon for me to go from 7.5gal in the kettle to 4.25gal in my keg. (Working on improving this!)

 

[rtracer]

Sweet man, thanks!
I think I want to try the Citra Mosiac combo, heck maybe all citra.

 

[BNolt17]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1478478186.898686.jpg
7 days grain to glass. Major issue was trying to keep it away from oxygen as much as possible, only got about 4.5 gallons in the keg after fermenting 6 and some issues with clogging the liquid out due to all the hops. I know most of you probably had the same issues. Shortened my dip tube and cleaned the poppet about 4 times. Pretty happy with how it turned out. A little more grassy than I expected but it might still be a hop residue issue that might improve. Still way crushable. Thanks for the recipe

 

[danszabrew]

brewed this on friday and dry hopped last night.. this beer smells incredible. Has anyone cold crashed this beer? I cold crash all of my beers but I'm just a little worried that cold crashing this might have ill effects with the crazy amount of hop aroma

 

[LichtS]

View attachment 376329
7 days grain to glass. Major issue was trying to keep it away from oxygen as much as possible, only got about 4.5 gallons in the keg after fermenting 6 and some issues with clogging the liquid out due to all the hops. I know most of you probably had the same issues. Shortened my dip tube and cleaned the poppet about 4 times. Pretty happy with how it turned out. A little more grassy than I expected but it might still be a hop residue issue that might improve. Still way crushable. Thanks for the recipe

7 Days Grain to Glass? How is that even possible.

 

[grassfeeder]

brewed this on friday and dry hopped last night.. this beer smells incredible. Has anyone cold crashed this beer? I cold crash all of my beers but I'm just a little worried that cold crashing this might have ill effects with the crazy amount of hop aroma

absolutely no reason to cold crash this beer or add any fining agents.

 

[OdeCloner]

Looking good @BNolt17! I *always* have trouble with clogged poppits and tubing when transferring off the massive load of dry hops. You're not alone. I bought one of these:
http://arborfab.com/Dry-Hopper-for-Glass-Carboys_p_12.html

I'm thinking I can insert this into the carboy, then insert my racking cane into it. It'd be like the reverse of what it was intended to do -- keep hops out, instead of keeping hops in.

Mine smell somewhat grassy initially too, but this blows off in my experience. My calendar usually goes something like this...
Day 0: Pitch
Day 3: Dry Hop
Day 7: Keg + Force Carb (50psi for 24hrs)
Day 8: Drink. Flavors are a bit grassy, and there's a harsh biting yeastiness to the flavor. Almost tastes as if there's chilis in the beer.
Day 12-14: Yeast is settled, beer tastes clean. No chili taste, no bite. Aroma is 8/10.
Day 14-21: Aroma is 10/10, Flavor is 10/10.
Day 21-30: Aroma is 9/10. Flavor is 10/10.
Day 30: I've never made it this far.



In terms of cold crash, don't do it! Yes, it'll help settle out all these hops, but I wouldn't do anything that might risk bringing oxygen into your carboy. I don't use any Whirlfloc in the boil or gelatin in the kegs either. The point is to have cloudy beer!

 

[danszabrew]

absolutely no reason to cold crash this beer or add any fining agents.

I was hoping that would be the case. I've never tasted anything with 1318 so I'm a little hesitant to leave a bunch in suspension but it seems to be common knowledge to do that.

Thanks everyone for their information I'll post some pics when I keg this bad boy

 

[stonebrewer]

7 Days Grain to Glass? How is that even possible.

It is quite possible and I have done it several times. Please make sure you control fermentation temps, pitch an adequate slug of yeast, and measure gravity!! I forgot that last bit on a variant that I added a bunch of honey to and had to remove it from the kegerator as it was undrinkable. Always check gravity!

 

[BNolt17]

7 Days Grain to Glass? How is that even possible.

Brewed Sunday 10/30, Pitched a healthy starter of 007 Sunday night, Dry Hopped Wednesday 11/2, No airlock activity by Friday 11/5 (didn't take a gravity reading as I didn't want to expose to O2) Kegged Saturday 11/5, force carbed and poured my first pint about 6pm Sunday. I would have had one earlier but all the hops clogged my liquid out and I had to figure that situation out.

I actually did throw the carboy in the fridge Saturday morning so that I could transfer to the keg Saturday night. I was thinking it would settle out some of the trub and residue, which it did, but there was still plenty to deal with. I wanted to wrap my siphon with a hop bag but completely forgot when it came time to transfer. I'm sure it would have helped, but it all worked out. I'm excited to see how it is over the next 7-14 days. I'm hoping that I don't have issues after 30 days due to O2 exposure, if it lasts that long

 

[BNolt17]

Looking good @BNolt17! I *always* have trouble with clogged poppits and tubing when transferring off the massive load of dry hops. You're not alone. I bought one of these:
http://arborfab.com/Dry-Hopper-for-Glass-Carboys_p_12.html

I'm thinking I can insert this into the carboy, then insert my racking cane into it. It'd be like the reverse of what it was intended to do -- keep hops out, instead of keeping hops in.

Mine smell somewhat grassy initially too, but this blows off in my experience. My calendar usually goes something like this...
Day 0: Pitch
Day 3: Dry Hop
Day 7: Keg + Force Carb (50psi for 24hrs)
Day 8: Drink. Flavors are a bit grassy, and there's a harsh biting yeastiness to the flavor. Almost tastes as if there's chilis in the beer.
Day 12-14: Yeast is settled, beer tastes clean. No chili taste, no bite. Aroma is 8/10.
Day 14-21: Aroma is 10/10, Flavor is 10/10.
Day 21-30: Aroma is 9/10. Flavor is 10/10.
Day 30: I've never made it this far.


In terms of cold crash, don't do it! Yes, it'll help settle out all these hops, but I wouldn't do anything that might risk bringing oxygen into your carboy. I don't use any Whirlfloc in the boil or gelatin in the kegs either. The point is to have cloudy beer!

Awesome!!! Thanks for the calendar. Day 8 is almost spot on to what I thought last night drinking the first pull. So damn excited for the next 2 weeks

 

[danszabrew]

Are you guys somehow screening the transfer from carboy to keg? I've never added this amount of dry hops and it looks like if I don't filter it i'll have a chewy beer.. Anyone have any issues with just using their normal transfer process?

 

[OdeCloner]

@danszabrew By the time everything settles out in the keg, you'll pull clear pints. I do zero screening and by the time it's drinkable (and not yeasty) at day 12 or so, everything is clear.

Now, you might need some screening to get as much as possible out of the carboy and avoid clogged poppits as the beer is flowing into the keg. See link a few comments back about my reverse carboy-hopper device from Arbor Fab.

 

[rtracer]

Brewed Sunday 10/30, Pitched a healthy starter of 007 Sunday night, Dry Hopped Wednesday 11/2, No airlock activity by Friday 11/5 (didn't take a gravity reading as I didn't want to expose to O2) Kegged Saturday 11/5, force carbed and poured my first pint about 6pm Sunday. I would have had one earlier but all the hops clogged my liquid out and I had to figure that situation out.

I actually did throw the carboy in the fridge Saturday morning so that I could transfer to the keg Saturday night. I was thinking it would settle out some of the trub and residue, which it did, but there was still plenty to deal with. I wanted to wrap my siphon with a hop bag but completely forgot when it came time to transfer. I'm sure it would have helped, but it all worked out. I'm excited to see how it is over the next 7-14 days. I'm hoping that I don't have issues after 30 days due to O2 exposure, if it lasts that long

30 DAYS!?!?! Even my "not that great" beers never last that long

 

[brewski09]

In terms of cold crash, don't do it! Yes, it'll help settle out all these hops, but I wouldn't do anything that might risk bringing oxygen into your carboy. I don't use any Whirlfloc in the boil or gelatin in the kegs either. The point is to have cloudy beer!

I've been double dryhopping my hoppy beers with dryhop 1 about day 3 in primary and dryhop 2 in the 1st keg under light pressure where I'll also cold crash. No oxygen ingress this way.

 

[danszabrew]

Kegged this on Friday (day 7) and the post by OP was dead on - first day was incredibly spicy.. almost like there were hot peppers in the beer. I've tried 4 oz - 8oz each day after day 7 to see how the beer is changing. Every day the beer has improved (so far) - the smell is insane. I can smell it from a few feet away and the flavor is amazing. This is definitely one of the best beers i've brewed to date. Thanks to OP for the recipe and the community for the collaboration. Unfortunately I've never had the real Melcher Street so I can't compare mine to the original

Here are some notes on what I did

Yeast:
3L starter of LA3

Water:
150/150 chloride/sulfate

Fermentation:
Fermented starting at 63 and raised 1 degree per day - reached 70 on day 7
This finished lower than expected, but I also missed my OG by a few points
SG: 1.068
FG: 1.008

Dry hop:
I didn't have 6oz of mosaic so I used 4 oz mosaic and 2 oz of citra along with the 1.5 columbus
I dry hopped with all 7.5 ounces on day 3

Kegged this with a closed system to preserve hop aroma

 

[OdeCloner]

Great job! I love how muddy looking the first few pints are. That spicyness will settle as the yeast do, then it really shines.

 

[BuddhaNole]

Hey folks. I am just about to kick my Citra Dry Hopped Fort Point Pale Clone and I think this will be my next brew. I have a substitution question. Do you think it would make a big difference using wheat malt instead of the flaked wheat? I'm not too worried about the haze factor due to the yeast I will be using.

Speaking of the yeast. When I made the Fort Point Clone, I couldn't get the London Ale or WLP 007, so I used WLP 644 and it worked great! My Aunt and Uncle were just down here from Boston and tried the Fort Point and they both thought it was great and really close to the original. So take that for what it's worth. Thanks in advance for the replies.

 

[olotti]

Do all you guys using 1318 get that spicy flavor like I do, it def reminds me of trillium beers I've had but it does get fatiguing after a couple.

 

[lilbova3]

Do all you guys using 1318 get that spicy flavor like I do, it def reminds me of trillium beers I've had but it does get fatiguing after a couple.

No spicy flavor for me. Are your fermentation temps good? Do you use a lot of Columbus late in the process? Columbus has a spicy, black pepper character to it. I've gotten away from using it late because of that. If anything I might throw it into a first round dry hop but at a small ratio. Something like 1:4 Columbus:another hop. Also, I've found the longer Columbus sits in the dry hop the more garlic and onion you can get from it.

 

[olotti]

No spicy flavor for me. Are your fermentation temps good? Do you use a lot of Columbus late in the process? Columbus has a spicy, black pepper character to it. I've gotten away from using it late because of that. If anything I might throw it into a first round dry hop but at a small ratio. Something like 1:4 Columbus:another hop. Also, I've found the longer Columbus sits in the dry hop the more garlic and onion you can get from it.

Fermentation temps hit 68 at peak then after I'll let it free rise to 70-72. I only use Columbus to bitter with and only use it to hit about 20 ibus. I guess spicy wasn't the correct term I get a lot of like a zippy tartness from 1318.

 

[OdeCloner]

Buddha - I switched to flaked wheat trying to achieve the haze. However, I think the yeast is what ultimate did it. I'd love to go back to White Wheat Malt and I think I will try it in the next one. White Wheat is what's on the Trilium grain bill, so it's probably more authentic anyway. Try it and let us know!!

 

[undefined]

I just kegged this the other day and took a sample today.
At this point it's so harsh that it's undrinkable. Do you guys know if this will mellow?
Perhaps it's the yeast that hasn't really finished up yet, or something?

I followed the 7-day procedure I saw in this thread and everything went perfect, except for this harshness.
It was fermented at around 64F with 1318.

Anyone else experienced the same thing and can comfort me?

Thanks!

 

[BNolt17]

I just kegged this the other day and took a sample today.
At this point it's so harsh that it's undrinkable. Do you guys know if this will mellow?
Perhaps it's the yeast that hasn't really finished up yet, or something?

I followed the 7-day procedure I saw in this thread and everything went perfect, except for this harshness.
It was fermented at around 64F with 1318.

Anyone else experienced the same thing and can comfort me?

Thanks!

I'm not sure it's the same flavor, but yes my first sample was definitely off. I would describe it as a peppery, grassy, intense bitter hop flavor. Mine was not undrinkable but slightly unpleasant. It did mellow significantly and the intense juiciness typical of a NE IPA took over. Check out a few posts back where the flavor is described through 30 days. So far that has been very accurate for me. About to kick my keg right after the 30 day mark and I would say it was best at about 14-18 days and is still crushable

 

[OdeCloner]

Totally normal!

Give it a few days to settle down. All that harshness from the yeast will fade as the yeast drops. In my experience it takes 3-5 days to go away completely.

 

[undefined]

Thanks for the reassurance!

Looking forward to another sample in a couple of days.

 

[danszabrew]

Finally got my hands on the real thing... mine is on the right, Trillium on the left.

Appearance:
Both beers have very similar head. Trillium's is much less hazy - almost clear. Trillium's is much more red/orange - See the picture.. I have a red deficiency so I might not be the best judge of the color

Smell:
Trillium's beer has little to no hop aroma. Very disappointed with this as I was expecting a hop explosion in my nose.
OP's recipe - crazy strong hop aroma that you can almost smell across the room - as expected - huge tropical notes.

Taste:
To my disappointment I must say that Trillium's beer isn't all that impressive. I have had better IPA's at less than half of the price; also, this beer didn't have the hop aroma or flavor that NEIPAS should have. I get a lot more malt taste from Trillium's and little to no aroma. The real Melcher Street also has a Saison'y finish.. very weird for the beer. Dry and a little funky. Does anyone have experience with conan yeast -maybe it's a character of the yeast. Either way, not my preference for an IPA.

The recipe from OP is significantly better than the real thing - I know I'm comparing a fresh beer less than a month old to a month old can from Trillium..


TLDR; OP's recipe is better than Trillium's.

 

[OdeCloner]

Thanks @danszabrew! I recently tasted some Congress Street fresh out of can. I don't know if I've changed, or they have, but it was not the same beer I remember. It was aromatic, yes, but not nearly so much as this recipe or as I recall. It didn't have that velvety mouthfeel as I recalled too. I think I agree with your assessment.

In other news...
Buy this!
http://arborfab.com/Dry-Hopper-for-Glass-Carboys_p_12.html

Old Way of Racking to Keg:
Put racking cane into carboy (with closed transfer setup). Gingerly place the tip above the massive layer of hops. Commence transfer. Routinely stop the transfer, then clean the liquid post as it clogs with hops. Get frustrated. Watch as the layer of floating hops descends towards your racking cane. Clog again. Get frustrated.

New way of Racking to Keg:
Drop that filter into carboy, then put in place the closed transfer setup with racking cane inside that filter. Commence transfer. Drink beer. Watch as damn near every drop gets out of the carboy with not a single clog. Marvel that the process takes under 10 minutes when it used to take 30. Ponder what to do with the extra time I just saved.

Go get one! If you're doing transfers through liquid posts, you need this. It's a silver bullet.

 

[troxerX]

Not sure if this thread still active, if it is, few suggestions (that have worked for me) for the original post:

1) explore by adding 10% or at least 1 lb of flaked wheat to the grist, this will help with both hazyness and juicy mouthfeel

2) Consider using distilled water and adjust such that it has a balanced profile (1:1) or slightly more chloride, one that has worked for me is 1.5 tsp gypsum and 2 tsp CaCl2 in 4 gallons of distilled water, also add 0.5 tsp epsom (for Mg) and 1/2 liter of spring water for other minerals not available in powder form

3) dry hop multiple times (2 - 3 times) with small amounts with each one not exceeding 3 days, place the hops with a sanitized weight (i.e marbles etc) in a double muslin bag tied with a string, use a wide neck carboy and add/remove the bags thru the large opening each time. This will allow you to dry hop multiple times while avoiding transferring the beer and minimizing oxygenation and if you can't meet your schedule this will also allow you to separate the beer from he dry hops thus avoiding excessive bitterness or green/grassy notes into the beer. Amounts that have worked for me are 1.5 oz (each time) in 3 gals, maybe 2.5 oz (each time) in 5 gals?

4) yeast - consider mixing yeasts to get different notes, these could be added simultaneously or at particular times during ferm, one of my future plans is to use a combo of 007 and S04 or S05, or 1056 combined with 1318

Cheers!

 

[degivens]

Just brewed this using OdeCloners revised recipe, I am going for the columbus, mosiac, citra dry hop combo. 3 days in and this thing is bubbling away quite nicely, really excited to see how this one turns out.

 

[OdeCloner]

Let us know how it turns out!! 6 months later and this is still my favorite homebrew recipe.

 

[degivens]

Let us know how it turns out!! 6 months later and this is still my favorite homebrew recipe.

Will do! This is the first time I will be doing a pressurized transfer -- so hopefully everything goes according to plan. Looks like i'll be kegging Friday or Saturday.

 

[degivens]

Not sure if this thread still active, if it is, few suggestions (that have worked for me) for the original post:

1) explore by adding 10% or at least 1 lb of flaked wheat to the grist, this will help with both hazyness and juicy mouthfeel

2) Consider using distilled water and adjust such that it has a balanced profile (1:1) or slightly more chloride, one that has worked for me is 1.5 tsp gypsum and 2 tsp CaCl2 in 4 gallons of distilled water, also add 0.5 tsp epsom (for Mg) and 1/2 liter of spring water for other minerals not available in powder form

3) dry hop multiple times (2 - 3 times) with small amounts with each one not exceeding 3 days, place the hops with a sanitized weight (i.e marbles etc) in a double muslin bag tied with a string, use a wide neck carboy and add/remove the bags thru the large opening each time. This will allow you to dry hop multiple times while avoiding transferring the beer and minimizing oxygenation and if you can't meet your schedule this will also allow you to separate the beer from he dry hops thus avoiding excessive bitterness or green/grassy notes into the beer. Amounts that have worked for me are 1.5 oz (each time) in 3 gals, maybe 2.5 oz (each time) in 5 gals?

4) yeast - consider mixing yeasts to get different notes, these could be added simultaneously or at particular times during ferm, one of my future plans is to use a combo of 007 and S04 or S05, or 1056 combined with 1318

Cheers!

My first though when I dry hopped was, "man I need a weight to break through all of this". I'm definitely fearful some of my pellets didn't get all the way through, a weighted solution seems solid -- will definitely give that a whirl next time.

Also, if you follow some of the other juice bomb threads, people have been having great success with WLP007. I may give that a try next time as well.

 

[comoxlandia]

Has anyone tried this with Galaxy? Thoughts?

 

[degivens]

First pour after 24hr 40psi force carb on day 7 to 8. Initial thoughts are in line with what the other posters seemed to mention. Got a spicy herbal thing going on (seems as if this clears by day 12ish).

First and second pour where very hoppy, i'm talking the beer has a green hue to it (a tad offputting). Seems as if this, too, will clear in a few days? Hope so. All in all it already is solid, so looking forward to the next few days.

I also had an epically terrible time doing the closed xfer because of all of the dry hops, I am going to be buying the dry hopper tool recommended above, sounds like it makes life a lot easier.

Obligatory pic (probably a bit favorable, I waited for some of the hops to drop out lol):

 

[BNolt17]

Looks pretty much like my first few pours. Yes the greenish hue will clear in a few days/a few pours. My guess is you will be loving this beer in about another week. I'm thinking its about time to plan another go at this. Thinking Nelson Sauvin this time instead of Mosaic.

 

[degivens]

Looks pretty much like my first few pours. Yes the greenish hue will clear in a few days/a few pours. My guess is you will be loving this beer in about another week. I'm thinking its about time to plan another go at this. Thinking Nelson Sauvin this time instead of Mosaic.

On day 14 now, wowwww-a-weeee-wahhh. Yeh, cleared out on day 11ish. Peppery taste also cleared out sometime around then. Tastes great now -- I can't imagine the keg will last another week, all of my friends love it too.

I bought the micron filter that was recommended above, I think that will lead to me getting a lot more beer into the keg next time, so super excited about that.

I've been thinking that either columbus-citra-galaxy or columbus-citra-nelson would be an interesting combo to try next time.

 

[marjen]

WNted to thank everyone for this thread, I have just read every page! I a, brand new to home brewing and getting into it because I love trillium, but don't get there very often, so want to learn how to make my own.

This thread has really changed my whole approach. I was going to bottle but seems like it would have been a huge mistake so think I am going to build a keeper right off the bat. I willl be brewing extract for now as I get started and then probably move to BIAB method. First first attempt is going to be the fort point recipe JC posted. Hoping to have my first brew day early next month. Anyway I will probably be popping in with a lot of dumb questions but can't wait to give it a go!