American IPA Trilium Melcher Street Clone
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Stopped seeing airlock activity last night or the day before? Been rather busy and have not been able to keg it. I will probably do that tomorrow. I think the 1318 was a little slower, but then again I fermented it a little lower (62-64) so that might have had something to do with it as well. Really looking forward to it...oh and I was also waiting for a pale ale to kick so I could retrieve my stainless steel hop spider doohickey to use to dry hop in the keg. May just have to bottle the rest and move on...Anyhow, I pitched on the 2nd and it was done roughly 8 days later. Hell...I may just keg it before hitting the sack! Cheers!
Tony
Tony
OK, I kegged it. Whew! Pulled this sample...warm, uncarbonated, delicious! A hint sweeter that 007,still a LOT of hop oils, aroma, and flavor. A burn on the sides of the tongue, which I get with a lot of hoppy IPAs. Interesting! Can't wait until it is carb'd and cooled...
Looking muddy! I like it.
I'm going to brew this again this weekend, with the following grain bill...
68.4% Two Row
17.7% Flaked Wheat
5.1% Crystal 15
5.1% Carapils
3.8% Dextrose
Mash @ 150F
Target OG: 1.075
Wyeast London Ale III 1318 Yeast
Hop schedule remains the same, but I was thinking about mixing in some Amarillo or Citra in the Dry Hop. I've done 2 batches of back to back mosaic....we'll see.
Water will change to 150 Chloride, and 150 Sulfate.
I think dialing back the wheat just slightly to make room for more Crystal and CaraPils might be the ticket here. I thought my last attempt felt a little thin on the palate, so hopefully this helps. I'm also going to change it up and try the 1318 yeast as you did, @stonebrewer.
Plan to dry hop 3 days post pitch, and leave them for 2-3 days. Force-transfer to purged keg to complete fermenting (if needed), then pressurize and serve! Last one was less than 2 weeks G2G, and was at it's absolute best on day 1.
I'm going to brew this again this weekend, with the following grain bill...
68.4% Two Row
17.7% Flaked Wheat
5.1% Crystal 15
5.1% Carapils
3.8% Dextrose
Mash @ 150F
Target OG: 1.075
Wyeast London Ale III 1318 Yeast
Hop schedule remains the same, but I was thinking about mixing in some Amarillo or Citra in the Dry Hop. I've done 2 batches of back to back mosaic....we'll see.
Water will change to 150 Chloride, and 150 Sulfate.
I think dialing back the wheat just slightly to make room for more Crystal and CaraPils might be the ticket here. I thought my last attempt felt a little thin on the palate, so hopefully this helps. I'm also going to change it up and try the 1318 yeast as you did, @stonebrewer.
Plan to dry hop 3 days post pitch, and leave them for 2-3 days. Force-transfer to purged keg to complete fermenting (if needed), then pressurize and serve! Last one was less than 2 weeks G2G, and was at it's absolute best on day 1.
Tasting fantastic!
Mine was:
73.4% Two Row
15.1% White Wheat (think flaked is the way to go though)
3.4% Carapils and C15
4.5% Dex
This is a tad sweeter, great mouthfeel...soft and full. Added 3g gypsum and 5g calcium chloride as well as 5ml of 85% phosphoric, which gave me a mash PH of 5.32 and 151 chloride/ 77 sulfate. Having a glass now on day 4 and it is not falling off at all. I am also keeping the CO2 low...not still, but not going for a big head as I find the carbonic bite distracts from this beer style.
Will keg my Vicinity clone attempt tonight which I bumped up the chloride more, and the sulfate. I fermented it and carbed it in the keg. Will push via gas to a flushed serving keg with my final dry hop addition.
Future attempts? I think I will do the Melcher again in the next month or so. I will bump salts up a bit to push the envelope. I will also attempt the LODO method to see if I can really keep an IPA for over a year tasting as fresh as first kegged. Skeptical, yes. Curious, hell yeah!
Mine was:
73.4% Two Row
15.1% White Wheat (think flaked is the way to go though)
3.4% Carapils and C15
4.5% Dex
This is a tad sweeter, great mouthfeel...soft and full. Added 3g gypsum and 5g calcium chloride as well as 5ml of 85% phosphoric, which gave me a mash PH of 5.32 and 151 chloride/ 77 sulfate. Having a glass now on day 4 and it is not falling off at all. I am also keeping the CO2 low...not still, but not going for a big head as I find the carbonic bite distracts from this beer style.
Will keg my Vicinity clone attempt tonight which I bumped up the chloride more, and the sulfate. I fermented it and carbed it in the keg. Will push via gas to a flushed serving keg with my final dry hop addition.
Future attempts? I think I will do the Melcher again in the next month or so. I will bump salts up a bit to push the envelope. I will also attempt the LODO method to see if I can really keep an IPA for over a year tasting as fresh as first kegged. Skeptical, yes. Curious, hell yeah!
Brewed this last night, and it was a minor disaster. I had a friend over to hang out while I brewed, got into a conversation and I totally lost track of the sparge. Sparged to over 11 gallons on a target volume of 9gal! I had to add an hour to the boil to get rid of all that water. Other than that, everything went fine. Pitched a 2L starter of 1318 and it's happily bubbling away under a big blowoff tube.
Planning to dry hop on Day 3 and keg on Day 6 if all goes well.
Will report on its progress!
Planning to dry hop on Day 3 and keg on Day 6 if all goes well.
Will report on its progress!
That's part of why my first batch was called Melcher Lite.
I oversparged AND I had an issue with my burners and the new boil kettle. Cheers to you for having the patience to boil off the excess...I did not.Besides the flavor and aroma, the other thing I like about this beer is grain to glass in a very short span...means I can brew this or another Trillium clone every few weeks and always have fresh IPA on tap.
1318 is crazy stuff. Filled my 6gal carboy to 5.5gal and fitted it with a blowoff tube. 24hrs post pitch it had overflowed my blowoff jar, spilling onto the chamber floor! Replaced with a bigger blowoff jar (bucket) and it's still vigorously churning away.
That is why I use a closed system or a Speidel 60L to ferment. The Speidel fills to the top with krausen!!
I love 1318 for this style it gives a very trillium-esque taste, tart and fruity which I think is key to nailing this style especially a trillium beer. Not sure if treehouse uses 1318 but I'm thinking trillium does as the few I've had have had that unmistakeable 1318, fruity, tart and spice flavor, I think it compliments the fruity, tropical hops so well.
I think there are a number of keys to brewing Trillium style brews. Water additions are huge to get that soft, round mouth feel. Wheat or flaked grains at 15% or higher help to hold the hop oils in suspension. Temperature controls and limiting oxygen on the cold side are a must. A few things I am playing with now are carbonation level (think low carbonation is better) and serving temperature (higher is better in my initial testing). Keeping this beer too cold causes it to clarify and you end up with a more bland beer as the malts cannot stand alone the way these beers are built. I also think the hop selection is key. The juxtaposition of dank, spicy Columbus with the fruitier, tropical hops like Galaxy, Citra, etc. really make these beers, IMHO. Final piece of the puzzle is the yeast, and I am not sold on 007 or 1318 yet as I have not brewed this enough times to decide which I like better, if either. I think I will end up stepping this up to 10 gallons in some future brews and then doing each with a different yeast to try side by side. Either way you cannot go wrong...I am leaning slightly toward 1318.
3 days post pitch with 1318 and I'm at 1.028. Almost done! Switched out the blowoff for an airlock and we're vigorously bubbling away. Raised temp from 63 to 65. I'm thinking I'll dry hop tomorrow (4 days post pitch) and pull on Sunday (8 days post pitch).
Dry hop plans have changed slightly...
4oz Mosaic
4oz Citra
1.5oz Columbus
I was planning for 3oz each Mosaic and Citra, but I had 4oz of Mosaic left, so I just measured it all out instead.
Right away in the gravity sample, the fruitiness of 1318 is showing through and the sample, literally, looks like orange juice. I'm reserving judgement on this until it's done, but there's a lot of reason to be hopeful. FWIW, this is nothing like 007. Not even kind of close flavorwise.
Dry hop plans have changed slightly...
4oz Mosaic
4oz Citra
1.5oz Columbus
I was planning for 3oz each Mosaic and Citra, but I had 4oz of Mosaic left, so I just measured it all out instead.
Right away in the gravity sample, the fruitiness of 1318 is showing through and the sample, literally, looks like orange juice. I'm reserving judgement on this until it's done, but there's a lot of reason to be hopeful. FWIW, this is nothing like 007. Not even kind of close flavorwise.
I'd ramp up that temp a little more after primary fermentation is done,it just helps 1318 cleanup and drop a little more. I'll ferment it at 65-68 until primary is finishing then move my carbon upstairs where it hits about 70 and I've got a 3rd gen 1318 to get to 1.010 otherwise it may stall on you. It's a great yeast for these beers but it's finicky plus it's top cropping so you have to break through that cake to dry hop but it's well worth it, prob my fav yeast to use for these beers, I use Conan too and it reacts more like 05 the more generations I use.
You're exactly right in that there a lot of variables at play but say all being the same like water profile, carbonation, dry hopping timing, the one thing I've noticed is that in the beers I've made lately which all have been in this NE style which is what I prefer to a west coast but I do make those to change things up, I really think especially in trillium there is a yeast presence and 1318 is the similarity I find between my hb and the trillium beers I've had. 1318 is so distinct in its fruity, tangy, slickness, that I never got from heady which uses Conan or even when I brew the same beer using Conan instead of 1318. I prefer 1318 to Conan when brewing these NE style beers plus it's so low floccing it really adds to the hazy turbid look as well as helping to hold all the dry hop oils in suspension whereas I find Conan can drop clear if you use it through generations. Just my experiences though and I bottle so legging may be different.
Kegged here on day 8 post pitch. Gravity has made its way down to 1.017. I'm going to leave it in the keg at 70F for awhile to see if those last few points will finish up. Although, the 1318 attenuated this to 77%, so they've pretty much done their job I suppose. It's off the dry hops now, which was the only urgency. I'll give it two days, then force carb and serve it I think.
The haze on this is SPECTACULAR. 1318 is very promising! It has that disgusting dishwater look to it, which is exactly like Trilium beers. WLP007 wasn't looking like this, even as a keg sample.
Will report back!
The haze on this is SPECTACULAR. 1318 is very promising! It has that disgusting dishwater look to it, which is exactly like Trilium beers. WLP007 wasn't looking like this, even as a keg sample.
Will report back!
This is my latest with 1318. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1469412207.634408.jpg
2 row, white wheat, c10, flaked oats, flaked barley, carapils, 1318. It's amazing the diff appearance between using this yeast and say Conan. This grainbill is my std and looks nothing like this using Conan, so it goes to show how much 1318 just hangs in suspension.
Update on my latest...
Kegged on day 8, then let it sit at 70F for another 24hrs in the keg. Put it in the kegerator, and hit it with 50psi for 24hrs, then backed down to 12psi for serving. Came out nicely carbed and am drinking on Day 10.
Wow! At this (really) early point, I like 1318 a LOT better than 007. I like the aromatics, mouthfeel, taste and appearance much better than 007. Not much left to a brew after those attributes I guess, so all around, this is a big step forward.
This is my third batch of this beer, and it always tastes wheaty when its young. Even so, next time I might back the flaked wheat down to 15%. I was pushing the wheat to get the haze, but this is so hazy with the 1318, I'm not sure it'll be required. We'll see as we go, but I feel like this is it recipe-wise.
Quick note on water...I really am enjoying the 150ppm CL to 100ppm Sulfate ratio. I get the clear bittering from the Sulfate, but still the nice soft mouthfeel from the Chlorides. Really liking this.
Play with the hops as you see fit and layer them on top of this incredible base!
Kegged on day 8, then let it sit at 70F for another 24hrs in the keg. Put it in the kegerator, and hit it with 50psi for 24hrs, then backed down to 12psi for serving. Came out nicely carbed and am drinking on Day 10.
Wow! At this (really) early point, I like 1318 a LOT better than 007. I like the aromatics, mouthfeel, taste and appearance much better than 007. Not much left to a brew after those attributes I guess, so all around, this is a big step forward.
This is my third batch of this beer, and it always tastes wheaty when its young. Even so, next time I might back the flaked wheat down to 15%. I was pushing the wheat to get the haze, but this is so hazy with the 1318, I'm not sure it'll be required. We'll see as we go, but I feel like this is it recipe-wise.
Quick note on water...I really am enjoying the 150ppm CL to 100ppm Sulfate ratio. I get the clear bittering from the Sulfate, but still the nice soft mouthfeel from the Chlorides. Really liking this.
Play with the hops as you see fit and layer them on top of this incredible base!
Just back from Boston...made a visit to Trillium and Jack's Abby. Did not have Melcher, but did have Congress, Summer, Sleeper, and Cutting Tiles among others (Fort Point, a couple of stouts, etc.). The Street series have all the same malts but with different hops (Mosaic, Simcoe, Galaxy, Citra). The Melcher clone here is so very close, I am going to keep making it and dialing it in to what taste best for my palate. Drinking a Summer right now and it looks the same as the beers in our pictures and kegs. Congress was a little more orange than Summer, but just a shade or three. They really are brewing the same beer over and over and using different hops and it works! If anything, I think my last version was hoppier and here is why. I free float pellets in the keg. As it gets close to the end, the concentration of hops is very great and it gets very, very, very hoppy. I have a lot of 400 mesh screen which I cut to size, wrap around my dip tubes, and silver solder together to have a tight fit. This prevents almost all hop matter from entering the tube and allows me to free float the hops. I find that in a bag or stainless steel screen container, you do not get complete extraction of the hop oils. They clump together like a dough ball and you only get some of the goodness. With free floating, you get it all!
I gladly handed over a wad of cash for beers at Trillium, and will continue to anytime I am up that way. That said, I am ecstatic that I can brew something so close to it that I can have a close facsimile on tap anytime (yeah, ALL the time) that I want it! Thanks @OdeCloner for doing the leg work and @olotti for the 1318 suggestion!! Running low on the homebrew version and won't be able to brew for a week or three, but after I brew up a clone of Airwaves, this is back on the top of my brew list. Cheers!!
I gladly handed over a wad of cash for beers at Trillium, and will continue to anytime I am up that way. That said, I am ecstatic that I can brew something so close to it that I can have a close facsimile on tap anytime (yeah, ALL the time) that I want it! Thanks @OdeCloner for doing the leg work and @olotti for the 1318 suggestion!! Running low on the homebrew version and won't be able to brew for a week or three, but after I brew up a clone of Airwaves, this is back on the top of my brew list. Cheers!!
@OdeCloner: Thinking the opposite. I am going to brew this at least two more times as an experiment. Once with wheat at 20% of the grist and once at (gulp!) 50% to see if it holds the hop oils in suspension longer. Call me crazy, but I think more wheat may be needed to dial this in. Thoughts?
I've been brewing some NE style pale ales with 31% flaked wheat/oats. They've been coming out amazing. Here's a couple of pics of the same beer just different angles for pictures.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1469883627.553820.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1469883640.931595.jpg
I did the Fort Point clone from BYO and thought it came out kinda thin. Not the fullness I was looking for even with high chloride. I believe LOTS of flaked wheat/oat is key.
@lilbova3 : The real Fort Point is kinda thin...don't know if you did a side by side or not. It is an easy drinker for sure.
Is that BYO recipe posted anywhere? Talking to JC he said there were tips in the article that I would be interested in reading...can't seem to find that article online anywhere.
Your beers look delicious! Why 31%, out of curiosity? I want to brew a beer that is highly hopped with a lot of flaked wheat...probably going to have to use the last of my rice hulls to prevent a stuck mash. Any problems with your mash at 31%?
Is that BYO recipe posted anywhere? Talking to JC he said there were tips in the article that I would be interested in reading...can't seem to find that article online anywhere.
Your beers look delicious! Why 31%, out of curiosity? I want to brew a beer that is highly hopped with a lot of flaked wheat...probably going to have to use the last of my rice hulls to prevent a stuck mash. Any problems with your mash at 31%?
I believe I created a Fort Point clone thread if you search for it. I didn't do a side by side with mine.
I just decided to try 31%. There's a local brewer where I'm at and he's been doing about 40% with white wheat though. I just like the mouthfeel with it. Little thicker and really adds to the haze.
Thanks the beer is delish! I BIAB so I don't have to worry about a sparge.
Update:
We're now fully carbed up and over a week in the keg. This beer is jaw-dropping. I can't stress how much of an improvement the 1318 was over the WLP007. It's an extremely different beer because it's more floral, fruitier, and fuller on the palate. Even after I rinse a glass with water, I can still smell the hop oils stuck to the walls. It takes soap to make the glass smell clean. I think that's awesome!
The changes in this batch were the water profile (the 150/100 Chloride/Sulfate ratio) and the yeast (1318) and bumping up the Crystal and CaraPils. Together, they've provided a very rich, creamy mouthfeel that I think surpasses the Trilium beers I've tasted. I think it's actually gone a shade too far, so next time, I think I'd dial back down the Crystal and Carapils to the 3% range, keep the water and yeast where they are.
Anyway, I stand by my earlier comments that this is an incredible recipe to let almost any hop stand out front and center. Can't wait to play around with Amarillo, El Dorado, Simcoe, Centennial and the list goes on.
@stonebrewer - let me know how the wheatier version turns out!
Be well!
We're now fully carbed up and over a week in the keg. This beer is jaw-dropping. I can't stress how much of an improvement the 1318 was over the WLP007. It's an extremely different beer because it's more floral, fruitier, and fuller on the palate. Even after I rinse a glass with water, I can still smell the hop oils stuck to the walls. It takes soap to make the glass smell clean. I think that's awesome!
The changes in this batch were the water profile (the 150/100 Chloride/Sulfate ratio) and the yeast (1318) and bumping up the Crystal and CaraPils. Together, they've provided a very rich, creamy mouthfeel that I think surpasses the Trilium beers I've tasted. I think it's actually gone a shade too far, so next time, I think I'd dial back down the Crystal and Carapils to the 3% range, keep the water and yeast where they are.
Anyway, I stand by my earlier comments that this is an incredible recipe to let almost any hop stand out front and center. Can't wait to play around with Amarillo, El Dorado, Simcoe, Centennial and the list goes on.
@stonebrewer - let me know how the wheatier version turns out!
Be well!
@OdeCloner: Will do! It is 2nd or 3rd on my brew list. Doing an Airwaves IPL this weekend that I am really looking forward to, then either Westy 12 or wheaty Melcher. Hoping to get all three done this weekend, but family probably will prohibit me doing nothing but brewing all weekend.
jasonfitzg
Active Member
What is the hop schedule you used for this?
See first post for the hop schedule. Not sure how others are doing it but I stick to the schedule for the most part. Only places I diverged was I fermented in a closed keg and added the dry hops to the keg. Also, one time I brewed it I was low on Mosaic so I put 4 ounces of Mosaic and 2 ounces of Simcoe vice the 6 of Mosaic.
Quick update: This latest keg is still drinking wonderfully. I think this is my most successful homebrew effort to date.
I cannot stress enough how important it is to eliminate oxygen pickup when brewing this beer. I've now brewed this three times, each time being more and more careful and the differences are stark.
For the first batch I siphoned into purged, open-top keg. No splashing, calm etc. Beer got worse with every pint. Ultimately crossed the good/bad line about a month in. By then it was also noticeably darker.
On the second and third batches, I dramatically changed things up. I began filling a keg with StarSan, purging what little headspace remained a few times and pushing out the StarSan with CO2. After that, I pressure transferred from the carboy to the keg's liquid out post, and connected a line from the gas in post to a bucket of StarSan.
I could not believe the difference it made! My third batch has been in keg for almost a month now and it's barely moved flavor-wise. It still has intense aromatics and that crazy, round hop flavor it had on day one.
I've kegged a lot of beer via siphon and never had it show this much difference. With this beer though, the difference has been insane!
I cannot stress enough how important it is to eliminate oxygen pickup when brewing this beer. I've now brewed this three times, each time being more and more careful and the differences are stark.
For the first batch I siphoned into purged, open-top keg. No splashing, calm etc. Beer got worse with every pint. Ultimately crossed the good/bad line about a month in. By then it was also noticeably darker.
On the second and third batches, I dramatically changed things up. I began filling a keg with StarSan, purging what little headspace remained a few times and pushing out the StarSan with CO2. After that, I pressure transferred from the carboy to the keg's liquid out post, and connected a line from the gas in post to a bucket of StarSan.
I could not believe the difference it made! My third batch has been in keg for almost a month now and it's barely moved flavor-wise. It still has intense aromatics and that crazy, round hop flavor it had on day one.
I've kegged a lot of beer via siphon and never had it show this much difference. With this beer though, the difference has been insane!
Im at a point making these really hoppy beers like 1lb in an IPA and found I'm having more trouble than ever with oxidation hitting these beers early, and I bottle. There's gotta be something with the amount of hops, yeast type and particulate in suspension that makes these beers so susceptible to oxidation if all the right steps aren carefully covered, I brew a blonde ale/apa about 55ibus and half the hops and it's crystal clear and full of flavor for over a month so I've seen the results side by side. Looks like you've found a way to beat this nasty O2 issue Kudos.
Thanks for all the information you and @stonebrewer have compiled!
Was wondering if you have tried harvesting any yeast from their cans? I just came back to Chicago with a couple four packs and was going to give it the old college try. Willing to share it with you guys if it works.
Also....I can not agree more with your comments on oxidation and achieving near clones. I really think this is the most undervalued statement on how to properly brew NE IPAs.
I had a brewing friend visit Trillium and found out they use Conan. They prefer 1318 but it's not as reliable and doesn't drop as well as Conan. So if you can get your hands on some Conan you'd be good to go.
ultravista
Well-Known Member
Subscribing
brew703
Well-Known Member
For those who bottle are there any suggestions on how to eliminate oxygen?
Do you have access to a Blichmann bottling gun?
brew703
Well-Known Member
No. but I guess I will need to look into that.
brew703
Well-Known Member
Do you need to have a keg to bottle using the beer gun?
brewski09
Well-Known Member
That just seems counterintuitive to everything I've heard about Conan. I'd be curious what they found unreliable about 1318 of you can find out from your friend. Thx
1318 can be very finicky. For Trillium, Conan drops better and is easier to use commercially because they can judge pitch counts better. 1318 doesn't like to sit around. After a batch is done it wants to be back to work within a day, if possible. That was told to my buddy from Wyeast. If it isn't, then viability can go way down and you're left with dormant yeast and cause under attenuation. They prefer 1318 but use Conan.
I've never tried Conan but love 1318 and don't see myself trying it anytime soon because of how good 1318 is.
Going to brew a ten gallon batch on Monday one batch with 1318 and a second with Trillium Can (assuming Conan) dregs. Going to split the dry hop to create 5 gallons of Melcher (Mosaic) & Congress (Galaxy).
My question is which yeast strain would you pair with the individual clone recipes based on past experiences? I have only brewed once with 1318 and it was a Simcoe Pale Ale that focused on the dankness over the juicy fruit. Thanks!
My question is which yeast strain would you pair with the individual clone recipes based on past experiences? I have only brewed once with 1318 and it was a Simcoe Pale Ale that focused on the dankness over the juicy fruit. Thanks!
