American IPA Trilium Melcher Street Clone

[lilbova3]

Going to brew a ten gallon batch on Monday one batch with 1318 and a second with Trillium Can (assuming Conan) dregs. Going to split the dry hop to create 5 gallons of Melcher (Mosaic) & Congress (Galaxy).

My question is which yeast strain would you pair with the individual clone recipes based on past experiences? I have only brewed once with 1318 and it was a Simcoe Pale Ale that focused on the dankness over the juicy fruit. Thanks!

Personally, Mosaic and Galaxy are juicy but Simcoe not so much. Simcoe will provide more pine and possible dankness and slight passion fruit. You'll get juicy with Mosaic and Galaxy. So to answer your question, I don't think it'll matter which hop you pair with which yeast. Both will be juicy.

The difference I've seen between Conan and 1318 is how much they drop out of suspension. 1318 hangs around more and looks more turbid while Conan clears a lot better. Not sure about comparing esters or attenuation between the two.

 

[kengetty]

Thanks @lilbova3!

Another quick question...what have you guys been shooting for IBU wise on your Street clones?

 

[OdeCloner]

I can only comment on the trade between WLP007 and Wyeast 1318, but for me, 1318 is a clear winner. It's not even close.

I have 10 gals in fermentors right now, and I hit them both with 1318, but each will get a different dry hop combo. Amarillo/Simcoe and something else TBD.

In terms of IBUs in a 5gal batch, mine are around 25 from...
.5oz of 14%AA Columbus for 60 min.
1oz of 14%AA Columbus for 10 min.
3oz of 14%AA Columbus Hopstand for 15-30 minutes.

 

[lilbova3]

Thanks @lilbova3!

Another quick question...what have you guys been shooting for IBU wise on your Street clones?

I use brewgr to make my recipes and my calculated IBU is only 5! It doesn't include any WP bitterness. I still feel WP at 175 adds some bitterness.

My most recent NE style beer I threw all the hops in at WP. Nothing before that. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

 

[stonebrewer]

@libova3: I was discussing WP hops with a few different folks recently because I was not completely satisfied with what I was getting out of them in the final product. A couple of folks brought up the point that pros WP at knockout, which means they are not cooling to 170 like a lot of homebrewers do, so they are extracting some bitterness during the WP. I think that in my last batch I did the same as the pros...gotta go look at brew notes as it has been a few weeks and I have not been "thinking beer" much due to work related travel and whatnot. Anyhow, food for thought when doing your next batch...you may want to try a beer or two with WP at knockout and see what affects you perceive in the flavor and perhaps flavor longevity of your IPAs. Hmmm...that reminds me, that beer should be ready to drink. Gotta get that into the kegerator quick! Cheers...

 

[droder1]

I had a brewing friend visit Trillium and found out they use Conan. They prefer 1318 but it's not as reliable and doesn't drop as well as Conan. So if you can get your hands on some Conan you'd be good to go.

Who told them Conan? It's widely believed between here and BA forums they use wlp007. JC hasn't said specifically, but he's said their strain is typically very flocculant (in non trillium beers). I wouldn't say Conan fits that description. Also i find it odd they'd not use a yeast they prefer. JC doesn't strike me as one who would pass up a better quality beer for "ease".

 

[lilbova3]

Who told them Conan? It's widely believed between here and BA forums they use wlp007. JC hasn't said specifically, but he's said their strain is typically very flocculant (in non trillium beers). I wouldn't say Conan fits that description. Also i find it odd they'd not use a yeast they prefer. JC doesn't strike me as one who would pass up a better quality beer for "ease".

Brewer told my buddies in the first few minutes they were there that they used Conan. JC isn't giving up quality because he knows Conan is more reliable - attenuation, yeast counts, viability and floccs. 1318 isn't as reliable which would lead to less quality in his beer.

 

[kengetty]

All set to brew a big batch of "Base Street" (recipe below) with all of the feedback I read in this thread on Monday. Pretty damn excited, but any and all feedback is welcome:


Batch Size (Gallons): 12
Original Gravity: 1.076
Final Gravity: 1.020
IBU: 25.71
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 5.9

Grain Bill:
58% Great Western 2 Row
30% White Wheat Malt
4% Cara-Pils
1.5% Crystal 10
3% Crystal 20
13.5% Dextrose

12 oz of Acid Malt for Mash pH

Mash at 150F for 60 mins

Hops:
1.35 Columbus @ 60min

Batch 1:
1.5oz Columbus Dry Hop - Trillium Yeast
6oz Mosaic Dry Hop - Trillium Yeast

Batch 2:
1.5 Columbus Dry Hop - 1318 Yeast
6oz Galaxy Dry Hop - 1318 Yeast

Yeast(s):
Batch 1: Trillium Can Harvest - 2L starter
Batch 2: Wyeast 1318 - 2L starter

Water:
Ca: 147.58
Mg: 30.55
Na: 9.00
Sulfate: 207.24
Chloride: 101.48

 

[OdeCloner]

Looks great! One thing...I would revisit the water. 150 Chloride, 150 Sulfate has been my sweet spot. Definitely need to up the Chlorides to get the round mouthfeel.

 

[Bramstoker17]

Brewer told my buddies in the first few minutes they were there that they used Conan. JC isn't giving up quality because he knows Conan is more reliable - attenuation, yeast counts, viability and floccs. 1318 isn't as reliable which would lead to less quality in his beer.

Im in no way disputing what your buddy heard, I'm just very surprised by this. I've heard a number of people saying that Conan is a finicky strain to work with. I've always had 1318 behave very predictably for me. On the BA forums JC has said WLP 007 for clone attempts. So take that for what its worth.

Having used both Conan and 1318 in NE style pales, I'd be shocked if Trillium used Conan

 

[grassfeeder]

Im in no way disputing what your buddy heard, I'm just very surprised by this. I've heard a number of people saying that Conan is a finicky strain to work with. I've always had 1318 behave very predictably for me. On the BA forums JC has said WLP 007 for clone attempts. So take that for what its worth.

Having used both Conan and 1318 in NE style pales, I'd be shocked if Trillium used Conan

agree 1000000% percent.

 

[brewski09]

Im in no way disputing what your buddy heard, I'm just very surprised by this. I've heard a number of people saying that Conan is a finicky strain to work with. I've always had 1318 behave very predictably for me. On the BA forums JC has said WLP 007 for clone attempts. So take that for what its worth.

Having used both Conan and 1318 in NE style pales, I'd be shocked if Trillium used Conan

I was under the impression Conan was the less reliable strain as well. I've heard 1318 needs a primer batch to get the 1st generation lag out but that's no big deal.

 

[Johow]

Quick update: This latest keg is still drinking wonderfully. I think this is my most successful homebrew effort to date.

I cannot stress enough how important it is to eliminate oxygen pickup when brewing this beer. I've now brewed this three times, each time being more and more careful and the differences are stark.

For the first batch I siphoned into purged, open-top keg. No splashing, calm etc. Beer got worse with every pint. Ultimately crossed the good/bad line about a month in. By then it was also noticeably darker.

On the second and third batches, I dramatically changed things up. I began filling a keg with StarSan, purging what little headspace remained a few times and pushing out the StarSan with CO2. After that, I pressure transferred from the carboy to the keg's liquid out post, and connected a line from the gas in post to a bucket of StarSan.

I could not believe the difference it made! My third batch has been in keg for almost a month now and it's barely moved flavor-wise. It still has intense aromatics and that crazy, round hop flavor it had on day one.

I've kegged a lot of beer via siphon and never had it show this much difference. With this beer though, the difference has been insane!

Ode, thanks for starting this very informative thread! I have a question about your transfer process. When you are transferring into your serving keg, how do you know when the keg is full? I brew either 5.5 gallon fermenter volumes or lately I have been brewing 6.5 volumes in a fermonster carboy. When I use that, of course it will not all fit in the corny so do you just fill until you see beer coming out of the gas in (the one you feed into your sanitizer bucket)line? My goal is to fill the keg and then put the remainder into a 2 liter soda bottle for immediate carbonation and tasting. Anyway just curious how you know your keg is full when it's a close system. Thanks!!!

 

[OdeCloner]

Hey Johow, I use pin lock kegs without a PRV, so keep that in mind. I attach a gas disconnect to the receiving keg, then run a tube from the disconnect into a bucket of StarSan. If I happen to get more into the keg than it can handle, it will stream out of the gas fitting, through the tube and then into the bucket. Totoally closed, so no mess! This isn't common as all these dang dry hops usually mean I only yield roughly 4.5gal after starting with 6 in the fermenter.

Glad you like the thread!

 

[Johow]

Ode, thanks for starting this very informative thread! I have a question about your transfer process. When you are transferring into your serving keg, how do you know when the keg is full? I brew either 5.5 gallon fermenter volumes or lately I have been brewing 6.5 volumes in a fermonster carboy. When I use that, of course it will not all fit in the corny so do you just fill until you see beer coming out of the gas in (the one you feed into your sanitizer bucket)line? My goal is to fill the keg and then put the remainder into a 2 liter soda bottle for immediate carbonation and tasting. Anyway just curious how you know your keg is full when it's a close system. Thanks!!!

Thanks Ode, that's why I recently bought a 7 gallon fermenter, I should probably start brewing 11 gallon batches.
I am about to brew up NEIPA recipe snatched from another thread on this forum and I would like to try your c02 transfer process. Just gotta pick up a couple QD's and some tubing first.
All the best with your brewing...

 

[olotti]

I was under the impression Conan was the less reliable strain as well. I've heard 1318 needs a primer batch to get the 1st generation lag out but that's no big deal.

I've used both and I'd be willing to bet a lot that trillium uses 1318. I say that as the one similarity in my beers I've used that yeast in and theirs is that definitive twang and some say spicy character that is distinct to 1318. I see you tube reviews of trillium beers where they note a definite spicy characteristic and that's not hops it's the yeast and only 1318 has that and it can get out of control like really takes over the beer. Conan is much cleaner than 1318 and drops even much clearer too. Their both reliable, I've had 1318 drop fg's down lower than predicted it's just a finicky yeast as the temp has to be controlled, to high and I mean like high 60's and it gets to fruity/twangy/spicy. Just my observations.

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

does anyone have a grain weight breakdown per # instead of %'s? I'm not sure how to do the conversion.

thanks

 

[stonebrewer]

does anyone have a grain weight breakdown per # instead of %'s? I'm not sure how to do the conversion.

thanks

For how many gallons? That is why he did the percentages so you could brew 5, 10, 20, 200 gallons with this same recipe. For 5 gallons, I did:

11# 2 row
2.25# white wheat
.5# carapils
.5# C20
10.7 oz sugar

Not exactly the recipe, but ballpark enough.

 

[ultravista]

Subscribing!

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

For how many gallons? That is why he did the percentages so you could brew 5, 10, 20, 200 gallons with this same recipe. For 5 gallons, I did:

11# 2 row
2.25# white wheat
.5# carapils
.5# C20
10.7 oz sugar

Not exactly the recipe, but ballpark enough.

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. did you do this in beersmith or is there a formula I don't know of?

 

[stonebrewer]

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. did you do this in beersmith or is there a formula I don't know of?

I used beersmith but you could figure it out manually if you REALLY wanted to.

 

[brewpoint0]

Curious on the water treatment here. Are you starting with tap water and then adjusting from there? I was checking out Brun Water and I couldn't seem to get my own tap water (I've got the report) to match. That and Brun Water was telling me that chloride to sulfate ratio was forcing the cation/anion balance way out of whack.

 

[OdeCloner]

Yes, I'm adjusting water based on Bru'N Water using tap water as the source. I got a water report to start from and just adjust from there.

 

[OdeCloner]

Finally got a can of Heady and it's fun to taste this with all these Trilium batches behind me. As compared to the recipe described in this thread (and hop variety excluded for the most part), I offer the following comparisons.

Heady tastes much more bitter and dry than these brews. Where this recipe produces an extremely soft, juicy character, Heady is round, but dryer. I wouldn't describe this as juicy. Heady is intensely aromatic, but this brew is more so. Heady has a soft sweetness and slight tang to it that this recipe doesn't have. Heady feels more massive in the palate where as this recipe feels lightweight and fleeting. Where this recipe looks like a milkshake, Heady just looks slightly hazy -- chill hazy. There's also an acidity to Heady that's not in this beer.

I know we're not trying to clone Heady in this thread, but given that the styles are so often compared, I thought it'd be an interesting datapoint.

Anyway, brew on.

 

[surgical_ass]

I fermented under pressure and dry hopped under pressure in the keg. Thought was to not lose any aromatics by CO2 blowoff, so I kept the pressure on with a spunding valve, with the valve closed so as to not blow off any aromatics...problem is I cut my tube a little too little and it ended up picking up hop and yeast and clogging. Only way to fix it was to open the keg, losing those aromatics, and cutting/cleaning the tube once more so I could transfer to a serving keg. Oh well, should go better next time. Let me know how your next batch work out. I will post a picture of my brew when I get a chance...

brewing this weekend I think we have everything down except fermenting under pressure to preserve aromatics. We are thinking of using a spidel fermenter and just screwing the lid on no air lock no blowoff. Too much pressure? What do you think is the best way? fantastic thread btw!

 

[IslandLizard]

brewing this weekend I think we have everything down except fermenting under pressure to preserve aromatics. We are thinking of using a spidel fermenter and just screwing the lid on no air lock no blowoff. Too much pressure? What do you think is the best way? fantastic thread btw!

Make sure to keep us posted in the "Don't Do That." thread...

 

[surgical_ass]

Make sure to keep us posted in the "Don't Do That." thread...

Ha! Decided to go with the pressure relief valve and ferment in the keg around 6psi. Hoping to not have any craziness come out of method

 

[rtracer]

Without reading the entire thread, do you add all 7.5 oz dryhop in one shot?

 

[surgical_ass]

Without reading the entire thread, do you add all 7.5 oz dryhop in one shot?

I think opinions are mixed. I am brewing this tomorrow and the plan is to split dryhops into two charges. One at 3 days and the other into the serving keg

 

[stonebrewer]

Without reading the entire thread, do you add all 7.5 oz dryhop in one shot?

Definitely a lot of opinions on this one! To minimize O2 exposure, I just dump all my hops in at the same time and don't remove them until the keg is drained. I also free float them as I think this gives the best extraction, eliminating the clumping I have had with stainless steel tubes or mesh bags. Some find this to be extreme/crazy talk but it works for my setup. YMMV.

 

[OdeCloner]

One charge! 3 days post pitch. Rack to keg 7 days post pitch.

 

[surgical_ass]

I have never only dryhopped at day 3 with this style. I'm curious to see if anyone has tried both ways (dh day 3 and keg vs only dh day 3) I know some of trilliums beers are "double dryhopped" I know I picked up the difference as in those beers. Wonder what their method of double dryhopping is. Charge at 3 days and keg or something else?

 

[danszabrew]

I plan on brewing this sometime this week/weekend. I've tried going through the bru'n water document/spreadsheet and it's a little bit over my head.. I haven't ever made any water adjustments in any of my previous brews. Does anyone have an idea on how I can achieve this water profile starting with RO/Distilled? I haven't gotten my water tested for a water profile.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[VipperOfVipp]

I plan on brewing this sometime this week/weekend. I've tried going through the bru'n water document/spreadsheet and it's a little bit over my head.. I haven't ever made any water adjustments in any of my previous brews. Does anyone have an idea on how I can achieve this water profile starting with RO/Distilled? I haven't gotten my water tested for a water profile.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I am in the exact same boat! Thanks for the help guys.

I read through 3/4 of the posts and it looks like the recipe hasn't changed (other than dry hop at day 3 and keg at day 5-6). Is that correct?

I just had my first NEIPA this weekend and ready to make one!

 

[olotti]

I plan on brewing this sometime this week/weekend. I've tried going through the bru'n water document/spreadsheet and it's a little bit over my head.. I haven't ever made any water adjustments in any of my previous brews. Does anyone have an idea on how I can achieve this water profile starting with RO/Distilled? I haven't gotten my water tested for a water profile.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I'd steer you towards Braufessors northeast IPA recipe. In the opening post he lays out some simple amounts to get the water profile in the higher chloride lower sulfate range using RO water.

 

[danszabrew]

I'd steer you towards Braufessors northeast IPA recipe. In the opening post he lays out some simple amounts to get the water profile in the higher chloride lower sulfate range using RO water.

Thanks! I noticed his recipe calls for a different water profile but it looks like OP has changed his water profile throughout a series of batches. I'm going to shoot for a 1:1 sulfate to chloride ratio around 130:130.

 

[BNolt17]

I brewed this Sunday night with some good "research" beers. Pitched about midnight, yeasties doing their thing by 7am. Dry hopping Wednesday night, kegging Saturday morning, hoping to be drinking by Sunday night. I am not set up to ferment under pressure or pressure transfer, but I'm going to do my best to keep O2 at bay. I'm looking forward to this one!!View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1478012598.485728.jpg

 

[OdeCloner]

Good job @BNolt17!! I've always wanted to taste this side by side again with a Street beer. Haven't done it since the early days of this thread. You sound like you're good to go. Honestly, keeping the O2 at bay as you said is one of the most important things about hitting this recipe. For that matter, the pressure transfer method has become a staple in my brewing routines and all my beers are significantly better because of it. However, the hoppy ones most demonstrate the worth of this method.

To those asking about water, my current favorite (5 batches in) is 150:150 chloride to sulfate. For me, that equates to roughly 5g each of Gypsum and Calcium Chloride in the mash, then again as much in the sparge water. I start with fairly high Sulfates in my water though.

Whatever resemblance this may or may not bear to Trilium, at this point, I don't even care. This is SUCH an awesome recipe to play with and showcase different hops. I love the milky look this beer has, now even 5 weeks into the keg, and the explosive aroma from the glass. I poured one for a friend the other day, and I could smell it across the table. I've scaled it up, scaled it down, tried different hops, and it's just solid!

 

[makubex]

Curious about the use of only Columbus as kettle additions - is this what Trillium does also?

Not saying it's wrong, it makes a lot of sense considering that Columbus is relatively inexpensive and makes is quite tasty/aromatic when paired with traditional fruity varieties, but I was wondering if this method has a source or anything (i.e. interview, blog post, etc).

Thanks in advance!

 

[OdeCloner]

@makubex, it's been pretty widely confirmed by the brewer himself on other forums, then also in their "official" BYO article about Fort Point.