Toppling Goliath pseudoSue - Can you clone it?

[jturman35]

I assume this beer goes down hill fast? What’s it like after a month in the keg? I have 5 kegs on tap so planing my rotation.

 

[BrewinSoldier]

I went with WLP007 for yeast. I went back and fourth, but after much reading this is the "original"yeast used with it, and that's what I wanted to hit close to-it delivered. I use 1318 for my NEIPAs too, and I have never been disappointed with it. I just strictly went for the closest clone I could get. I wouldn't be opposed to trying 1318 in this now.

And couchsending is correct. I fermented between 65-67, just because I didn't have an area to get any cooler than that. After about a week or so, I moved the fermenter up to around 70* and let it finish out. I'm a firm believer in climbing fermentation temps-love the fruity flavors it brings out.

So I went and picked up a pack of S04 today as well as a few packs of 007, some honey malt, and some Maris Otter. Already have some Rahr 2 row. So Im going to brew a 6 gallon batch of this on Monday, split it into two 3 gallon fermenters, and pitch each of those yeasts to see if there is any discernable difference that can be tasted.

Looking at your photos, yours looks dead on color wise to the real deal versus some of the other attempts in this thread. I know lighting plays a big part. You also said you couldn't tell the difference in taste.

I'd also like to get as close as I can to the real thing, as right now it's probably my favorite hazy on the market. So well rounded, sweet but dry, no grassy flavors from the hops, no dankness, etc.

If you wouldn't mind posting it, I'd like to brew to your specs/actual recipe, and water profile(in ppm).

 

[paarman]

So I went and picked up a pack of S04 today as well as a few packs of 007, some honey malt, and some Maris Otter. Already have some Rahr 2 row. So Im going to brew a 6 gallon batch of this on Monday, split it into two 3 gallon fermenters, and pitch each of those yeasts to see if there is any discernable difference that can be tasted.

Looking at your photos, yours looks dead on color wise to the real deal versus some of the other attempts in this thread. I know lighting plays a big part. You also said you couldn't tell the difference in taste.

I'd also like to get as close as I can to the real thing, as right now it's probably my favorite hazy on the market. So well rounded, sweet but dry, no grassy flavors from the hops, no dankness, etc.

If you wouldn't mind posting it, I'd like to brew to your specs/actual recipe, and water profile(in ppm).

Sure, I will look back in my notes and post it up. Also curious to hear how your split batch goes-wouldn't mind using S04 if the flavors aren't thrown off.

 

[paarman]

If you have any questions on anything in particular, you can shoot me a PM. Hope this helps!

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.75 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 5.50 gal

Date: 9 Jun 2018
Brewer: Justin Paar
Equipment: Bayou 16 Gal Kettle + 10 Gal Cooler
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.6 %

Mash @ 152* for 60 mins

Water Profile
Calcium: 148ppm
Sulfate: 150ppm
Chloride: 150ppm
Mash pH: 5.25

5 lbs 9 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
6 lbs Golden Promise (2.5 SRM)
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.4 SRM)
8.0 oz Flaked Wheat
4.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM)
0.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - 0 min
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Boil 35.0 min (Around 160-180*)
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) (Made a 1L starter stepped up to 1.5L starter with this)
4.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop on Day 2-3
3.70 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop on Day 10 (I transferred to keg by day 10)
I did the second dry hop inside of a mesh floating cylinder inside of the keg, where I let it stay until the keg was done, which was within a month.

I cold crashed the keg for 24 hours, then set to 30psi for 24 hours, purge it and set it to serving pressure and let it sit for a few days.

Ferment ~64* for 7-14 days. (Mine was at 65*, moved to 72* on day 3 with first DH, and into a keg on day 10 as it was done)

Est Original Gravity: 1.060 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.9 %

 

[BrewinSoldier]

Finally got around to brewing this today. Used it to break in my new Braumeister 20L. It was hard calculating mash and sparge water minerals with this, but I tried doing it using estimated mash and sparge volumes, then added it all to the mash. For that reason my water profile may be a little low because I ended up having to add more RO water than I planned, and still ended up .75 gallons short post boil, with a 1.063 SG.

Here is a sample post boil before the 3oz of whirlpool hops. I really like where the color ended up. Didn't have GP so substituted MO instead. May just end up doing a 3oz dry hop per 2.5 gallon fermenter on day 3 since the regular Psuedo is a single dry hop.

Also forgot to make a 1l starter of the 007 so both fermenters got thrown into the fermenter at 64°. I'll pitch both yeasts tomorrow since I want to have the same pitch rate for both to keep this test on equal playing fields.

 

[paarman]

Looks awesome. Excited to hear your results.

 

[jturman35]

I plan on brewing this next weekend. How are you guys dry hopping on day 2-3? Are you removing the first round of hops after a week? I know this style is sensitive to oxidation so im looking to take extra caution when dry hopping and racking. I guess adding the first round of hops at krausen helps scrub off any oxygen? I have a conical so i am able to add co2 after opening the lid. I'm just being paranoid.

 

[WIexile]

I plan on brewing this next weekend. How are you guys dry hopping on day 2-3? Are you removing the first round of hops after a week? I know this style is sensitive to oxidation so im looking to take extra caution when dry hopping and racking. I guess adding the first round of hops at krausen helps scrub off any oxygen? I have a conical so i am able to add co2 after opening the lid. I'm just being paranoid.

Yep, I drop in that first DH around day 3 on tail end of fermentation and leave them in there for the rest of the time loose. I also keg hop on this one, when I am doing a DDH version.

 

[BrewinSoldier]

I plan on brewing this next weekend. How are you guys dry hopping on day 2-3? Are you removing the first round of hops after a week? I know this style is sensitive to oxidation so im looking to take extra caution when dry hopping and racking. I guess adding the first round of hops at krausen helps scrub off any oxygen? I have a conical so i am able to add co2 after opening the lid. I'm just being paranoid.

I threw mine in on day 3. I didn't DDH this batch but am highly considering it. I'm not a huge fan of it, but there were so many variables(new brew system, new fermenters/chamber, pressure fermenting, etc). So there could have been something wrong in any of those. It's very bland to me and overly sweet. I'm wondering if it has to do with the Maris otter and honey malt.

I have two samples (one of each yeast I used) degassing so I can see what the final gravity was since I forgot to check. Hopefully they finished out.

 

[WIexile]

I threw mine in on day 3. I didn't DDH this batch but am highly considering it. I'm not a huge fan of it, but there were so many variables(new brew system, new fermenters/chamber, pressure fermenting, etc). So there could have been something wrong in any of those. It's very bland to me and overly sweet. I'm wondering if it has to do with the Maris otter and honey malt.

I have two samples (one of each yeast I used) degassing so I can see what the final gravity was since I forgot to check. Hopefully they finished out.

I think you may have a fermentation issue. Curious to find what your FG is?

 

[jturman35]

I have never had this beer so I have no idea what to expect! I can’t get it here in MS. I also can’t get Lawson’s Sip of Sunshine, but damn was I glad when I brewed it!

Here is what I plan on brewing this weekend! I will post my results and pics to follow.

 

[BrewinSoldier]

I think you may have a fermentation issue. Curious to find what your FG is?

Ended up exactly the same on both...1.009. So fermentation was definitely done. Only other thing I can attribute it to was grain bill or water lacking minerals. I'm actually surprised it finished so low with the temp I mashed at.

 

[WIexile]

Ended up exactly the same on both...1.009. So fermentation was definitely done. Only other thing I can attribute it to was grain bill or water lacking minerals. I'm actually surprised it finished so low with the temp I mashed at.

What is your grain bill looking like?

 

[jturman35]

What is the most you guys have dry hopped this beer? I’m seriously considering 4oz (day 2) and 4oz at (day 7) or so.

 

[couchsending]

Their beers don’t taste/smell like they are dry hopped during fermentation. If they do it’s at the very very end. Wouldn’t surprise me if Sue is 3lbs per bbl of DH. Personally I’d wait until fermentation is done. If you Must add 2oz at very end of fermentation (.5 plato to FG) and then 6 oz after d-rest and you’ve cooled to 60 or so.

 

[paarman]

What is the most you guys have dry hopped this beer? I’m seriously considering 4oz (day 2) and 4oz at (day 7) or so.

That's basically what I did. Just shy of 4oz the 2nd time inside of the keg. I thought it was fantastic.

 

[jturman35]

Anyone see any issue with my dry hop schedule below? I have a tilt floating in my conical. I’m currently at 27hrs and beer is at 1.044. I plan on dry hopping first round of hops at day 2. I’m going to use a keg spider and hop in the conical, after 5 days assuming the beer is done I plan to rack into a keg with 3oz more dry hops for 5 more days. After 5 days I plan on racking into the final serving keg. This seems to limit the least amount of oxygen. I don’t brew many NEIPA’s so trying to prefect my process.

Any thoughts?

 

[WIexile]

Anyone see any issue with my dry hop schedule below? I have a tilt floating in my conical. I’m currently at 27hrs and beer is at 1.044. I plan on dry hopping first round of hops at day 2. I’m going to use a keg spider and hop in the conical, after 5 days assuming the beer is done I plan to rack into a keg with 3oz more dry hops for 5 more days. After 5 days I plan on racking into the final serving keg. This seems to limit the least amount of oxygen. I don’t brew many NEIPA’s so trying to prefect my process.

Any thoughts?

No need to rack two times. Let the beer sit for 10 days in your fermenter on the hops. Rack into your serving keg after this with final hops in there. You don't wanna move this beer around to much. Otherwise your hop amounts look great! Let us know how it goes.

 

[paarman]

Agree with the above. You'll find a ton a varying opinions, but I've always found success in the least transfers/oxygen exposure the better.

I open my fermenter to dry hop once, and again when I am hooking up a racking cane apparatus to closed-transfer to the keg which is already purged with C02 and dry hop inside. I don't open up that keg again until it's empty. Between those two situations, it probably catches a little oxygen but the color/taste was not affected from what I could tell. I didn't pull the keg hop out specifically because I didn't want to depressurize or have it hit oxygen.

I've had friends that will do a low C02 stream when opening the keg to create a "cloud" and prevent oxygen from hitting the beer when removing the dry hop from inside the keg which seems logical, but another reason I didn't do that is that I couldn't get my keg sealed airtight with a suspended dry hop, there always seemed to be a tiny leak so I just dropped the whole hop cylinder in there and let it free float/sink. Didn't have any clogging issues or anything this way, for what it's worth. And I got no grassy off-flavors from it sitting in there a month or so, which is a common complaint of doing this-maybe it depends on the hop variety but Citra was fine. Just my .02.

 

[jturman35]

Double post

 

[jturman35]

Racked without a clog! Smells and taste pretty darn good. I have no idea what this beer is supposed to smell taste like but it’s looking really good at this point! I used two separate hop spiders in the keg with 1.5 ounces of Citra each. I thought this might give the hops more exposure to the beer.

When does this beer hit it prime in the keg, 2 weeks?

View attachment 623772

 

[jready]

Had this beer last night for the first time and two variations one dry hopped with just mosaic and one dry hopped with just Galaxy. Both were really delicious I will be brewing this soon!

 

[paarman]

Racked without a clog! Smells and taste pretty darn good. I have no idea what this beer is supposed to smell taste like but it’s looking really good at this point! I used two separate hop spiders in the keg with 1.5 ounces of Citra each. I thought this might give the hops more exposure to the beer.

When does this beer hit it prime in the keg, 2 weeks?

View attachment 623772

Yeah, definitely about 10-14 days in it'll start getting really good.. Just good luck getting it to last that long lol. It goes down great at all stages, IMO. Glad everything is looking good for you, keep us posted on how the final product is.

Had this beer last night for the first time and two variations one dry hopped with just mosaic and one dry hopped with just Galaxy. Both were really delicious I will be brewing this soon!

The Mosaic one is so awesome. Just had a bottle a few days ago for the first time in awhile, forgot how good it was. If they brew up the DDH version, that is easily the best Sue they've put out. It was incredible. Really is a great beer by them, and it's finally readily available in most markets. Used to be such a treasure hunt to find it a few years ago.

 

[jready]

Can you point me to the closest representation with out reading all 57 pages? Post number would be great!

 

[InspectorJon]

Can you point me to the closest representation with out reading all 57 pages? Post number would be great!

Try looking at post #534

 

[jturman35]

I’m at 4 days in the keg which has 3oz of Citra. Can you say hop burn! Color is amazing!

 

[BrewinSoldier]

I’m at 4 days in the keg which has 3oz of Citra. Can you say hop burn! Color is amazing!

That's the one thing I'm working on with heavily dry hopped beers(pretty much NEIPAs). I'm trying to get close to zero hope particle transfer from Unitank to keg. I just bought the inline Bouncer filter thing and the finer mesh filters for it to try. I'll put it inline between the Unitank and keg to filter out the hops before they make their way into the keg and cause that hop burn. Not sure how good it will work though because I carbonate in my Unitank.

 

[jready]

Try looking at post #534

Thanks!

 

[paarman]

So I am going to have a lot of extra Mosaic hops left over this year that I'd rather not try to reseal/keep until next year. I'm thinking about remaking this recipe with a Mosaic focus much like their Mosaic dry hopped version which I think is fantastic. That said, does anyone have any input on how I should go about it? Should I just do straight Citra on brew day and just solely dry hop with Mosaic afterward? Brew and hop with Mosaic? A blend of both when dry hopping?

 

[WIexile]

So I am going to have a lot of extra Mosaic hops left over this year that I'd rather not try to reseal/keep until next year. I'm thinking about remaking this recipe with a Mosaic focus much like their Mosaic dry hopped version which I think is fantastic. That said, does anyone have any input on how I should go about it? Should I just do straight Citra on brew day and just solely dry hop with Mosaic afterward? Brew and hop with Mosaic? A blend of both when dry hopping?

TG seems to be able to get mosaic flavors I can never come close to. That said, from what I've been told at the brewery, is that they simply brew the same beer, and dry hop with only Mosaic instead of Citra.

For a home brew version, I brewed up a batch of my normal clone and dry hopped with both Citra and Mosaic, and it turned out quite good. Just defiantly not Mosaic Sue...