Star San reuse word of warning

[BamaPhil]

DON'T DO IT!!

Ok, that may be overkill, but do so with extreme caution. I'm still reeling from my first infection that sent 13 gallons (2 full batches and one half batch) down the drain.

I posted a couple threads as I dealt with this, wondering if I had a bug, but here's what I was looking at:

-Strange film on the top of my bottled Blackberry Wheat (~2 weeks old)
-Same thing developing in my bottled ESB (<1 week old)
-Odd fermentation in my Cherry Wheat. I should have thought "infection" sooner, but I was telling myself what I was seeing was normal krausen.
-A perfectly good, bottled white IPA

As I was coming to grips with this, I tried to figure out what the common thread was. My process was basically the same with no major hiccups, I'm pretty careful with cleanliness. I thought it could have been the plastic water jug I use for secondary sometimes, but the ESB didn't get a secondary at all.

Then I thought it may have been my habit of reusing Star San, so I made a timeline:

3/29- White IPA into primary, clean
4/7- Blackberry into primary, clean as far as I could tell
4/20- White IPA into bottles, clean
4/25- Blackberry into secondary, clean as far as I could tell
4/29- ESB into primary, pretty sure it was clean at this point, it was darn tasty
5/5- Blackberry into bottles, infected
5/17- Cherry wheat into primary and ESB bottled, both infected.

I don't recall when the last time I made a batch of Star San was, but my buddy that brewed with me on 3/29 doesn't recall us making any then. It could have been before or after that. Either way, my theory is that my sanitizer failed between 4/29 and 5/5.

Moral of the story: Don't depend on "is it cloudy and does it still foam?" I had read this was a way to gauge its effectiveness and it will last a long time if you use distilled water. This is exactly what I did and I saved some money reusing multiple batches of it. However, I will forever test it with pH strips in the future.

Off to re-brew the cherry wheat tomorrow, it's for my Dad's 60th birthday, hopefully I can make it drinkable by 6/28.

 

[403Brewer]

For like $0.50/batch (if that) its worth mixing up new stuff everytime for me

 

[Braufessor]

Moral of the story: Don't depend on "is it cloudy and does it still foam?" I had read this was a way to gauge its effectiveness and it will last a long time if you use distilled water. This is exactly what I did and I saved some money reusing multiple batches of it. However, I will forever test it with pH strips in the future.

The "cloudy" aspect of star san is not a good test at all. pH is the important thing - below 3. I keep a 10 gallon tub of starsan in my brew room for dunking, filling kegs, bottles, tubing, whatever I want to submerge and sanitize..... I routinely use it for 4-6 weeks. At that point it generally has enough "floaties" and debris in it that I dump it and make a new batch. There is nothing wrong with reusing starsan.... although, I think people go overboard trying to "save money" on starsan. My "method" is fairly "wasteful" in that I make 10 gallons at a time - which few people do. Even doing that - I only use a bottle of starsan a year. I think you can feel confident in reusing starsan if your process is sound. But, I would not try to skimp on it and reuse it forever just so I could save $1.50 a month......

 

[cuda6pak]

It's also worth mentioning that if you want to reuse StarSan, use distilled water, not tap water.

 

[tagz]

I think the moral of your story is don't reuse your starsan 7+ times over two months.

 

[AlCophile]

Why bother? StarSan is diluted one-to 640, as I recall; that's one cc(or ml) diluted up to 640 cc. Or, any multiple of that. No need to make 5 gal., or even 1 gal. Make only what you need; it contains a wetting agent, so you know it's sticking to the interior of tubing....no need to submerge. just fill tubing, let it stand, empty.

 

[Braufessor]

Why bother? StarSan is diluted one-to 640, as I recall; that's one cc(or ml) diluted up to 640 cc. Or, any multiple of that. No need to make 5 gal., or even 1 gal. Make only what you need; it contains a wetting agent, so you know it's sticking to the interior of tubing....no need to submerge. just fill tubing, let it stand, empty.

Because it is easy, fast, convenient and you know for a fact that you did not miss any aspect of sanitizing anything you are using - and, it costs about $1 per month to brew 50 batches a year this way. There just is really no money to be "saved" making small batches of star san - at least not enough to inconvenience yourself in any way. That is the reason I do it this way. I can just have basically all my stuff in a tub of starsan and pull it out as I need it over the course of the brew day.
Dunking anything is simply faster and easier than any other method, and it requires no attention to detail as far as making sure you "got it all." And, since there is no real "up-side" to doing it another way - I go for speed and convenience.

 

[Hello]

I use it for 30 days, usually. I brew and start new. In between I use it for kegs and such. If I pour a gallon in a keg, I dump it in the sink. Over 30 days I usually go through most of the sanitizer. I use it to clear a line, use it for my thief and hydro samples, etc. Bottle the batch I brewed when I made a new 5 gallon batch…dump the star san. Make a new one when I brew or the next time I need it for a hydro sample or something like that.

I don't think I would ever go over 30 days. I write the date I made the batch on the lid of my bucket. It's the orange homer bucket & lid. I always known when I made it and of course, if it looks like it needs to be changed prior to the 30 days, I change it. It is cheap enough that I don't get stingy.

 

[day_trippr]

Meh. I typically have a five gallon Star San/distilled water jug go six months before starting over, with a couple of one gallon refreshers along the way. If my pH meter says it's still under 3 it's Go Time. Then again, nothing contacts the Star San that isn't already clean, so organic loading etc is kept to a minimum.

It's not so much about the cost as it is the convenience. There are brew op's going on all the time around here and mixing fresh batches would be a pita...

Cheers!

ps: never had an infected batch...

 

[jpc]

Yeah... I've had no issues using six-month old starsan mix. I use distilled water with it, though, since my tap water is complete crap. So long as the pH stays low, it will be effective.

 

[Doctor_M]

Like others have said I just use my ph meter (that you really should already own if your an all grain brewer) and take a ph reading. If it's above 3 I replace.

 

[BamaPhil]

I think the moral of your story is don't reuse your starsan 7+ times over two months.

Yep, that's what I said, except I provided details.

Just providing some info to others that was contrary to other things I have read on here.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[BamaPhil]

The "cloudy" aspect of star san is not a good test at all...I

Yep, I now agree, but there's a lot of people, including my LHBS guy, that believe otherwise. Trying to help dispel the myth.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[day_trippr]

"Well, actually"...there were no "details".

There was a schedule...and there was conjecture.
There's nothing to substantiate the theory of "The Sanitizer Did It!"

Cheers!

 

[Cyclman]

I probably side on the using too old StarSan, I typically go 3 months before I make a new batch. I do use filtered water, never had an infection.

But to the point, this is probably a silly and overly cheap way to cut corners, I think I'll only use a month at a time in the future.

 

[BamaPhil]

"Well, actually"...there were no "details".



There was a schedule...and there was conjecture.

There's nothing to substantiate the theory of "The Sanitizer Did It!"



Cheers!

Would more detail contribute significantly?

Yep, it's conjecture. It's a hobby, so calling in a team of microbiologists to publish a substantiated theory isn't really within my budget or give-a-damn.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[Flboy]

One thing that is bugging me about my starsan mix is- I made a batch up using a 33lb LME bottle. I had originally left the cardboard in the cap. A few days/week later I noticed there was mold growing on it, and yes, it was splashed multiple times with the starsan. May be there is a difference between sanitizing and mold control, but!

 

[LandoLincoln]

Yep, that's what I said, except I provided details.

Just providing some info to others that was contrary to other things I have read on here.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

You didn't mention if your Star San was actually out of the effective pH range, so it might not have been your Star San at all if you didn't bother to test it and just assumed that it was the Star San.

 

[LandoLincoln]

One thing that is bugging me about my starsan mix is- I made a batch up using a 33lb LME bottle. I had originally left the cardboard in the cap. A few days/week later I noticed there was mold growing on it, and yes, it was splashed multiple times with the starsan. May be there is a difference between sanitizing and mold control, but!

It's probably because your cap was dirty, and Star San is not a cleaner.

 

[troy2000]

"Well, actually"...there were no "details".

There was a schedule...and there was conjecture.
There's nothing to substantiate the theory of "The Sanitizer Did It!"

Cheers!

Were you trying to add something constructive to the conversation, rather than just picking at someone for no good reason? If so, you failed miserably. Lighten up...

 

[Scottie61]

For brewing or bottling I only make a quart at a time, using a small syringe to measure the 1.5ml of StarSan needed, and I just dump it when done. I do three gallon brews in my kitchen, so if I made a big batch of StarSan I'd have to carry it upstairs to use it. I keep the StarSan and syringe in the kitchen. Way less to carry around!

Scott

 

[FreddyMar3]

How are people saving any money at all if they are using distilled water to make star san? that has to be way more expensive than just mixing new, right? also, don't underestimate the power of the spray bottle.

 

[LandoLincoln]

How are people saving any money at all if they are using distilled water to make star san? that has to be way more expensive than just mixing new, right? also, don't underestimate the power of the spray bottle.

Because it's not a question of saving money? My tap water is super hard and Star San goes cloudy immediately upon touching my tap water. I like the convenience of not having to measure out and fill new buckets of Star San concentrate and water every time I need to sanitize something, and spray bottles are good for some stuff, but not for everything.

On brew days the only time I use the bucket is when I'm dumping a few bowls full of Star San into my carboys, swirling it around, and then dumping back into the bucket. I also toss my bung/airlock combo in there, but yeah, I could use the spray bottle for the bungs easy enough.

When I test beer during fermentation I submerge my thief into the bucket (both ends) and submerge the top end of the hydrometer tube into the bucket. I could use the spray bottle for the tube easy enough, but getting the thief sanitized is a lot easier with a bucket.

On kegging days I use a couple of bowl-fulls of Star San swirled around on the inside of the kegs and then dump back into the bucket. I submerge the racking tubing in the bucket and siphon Star San through the entire siphon / tubing. I use a spray bottle to sanitize the top of the siphon that doesn't fit in the bucket. Kegging without a bucket of Star San on kegging days sounds like a lot more work.

Distilled water is pretty cheap and a bucket of sanitizer lasts me about three months.

 

[Kee]

I am too cheap to have cable TV. I don't have a smart phone (still thinking about it). I drive an inexpensive car. But at around 75 cents an ounce I don't scrimp on Star San, although I rarely need more than 2 1/2 gallons at a time.

 

[seabass07]

I also don't see any reason to assume it was the starsan. It could also be the cleaning. Pellicles make equipment very hard to clean. How are you cleaning your equipment?

 

[FreddyMar3]

Because it's not a question of saving money? My tap water is super hard and Star San goes cloudy immediately upon touching my tap water.

So hard water can render Star San useless immediately? I guess I thought there was a time aspect too it but I can't say where I got that from...

 

[fearwig]

I taste mine to make sure it's under 3. Then again I sometimes just taste my mash, too.

It's not best practice, but my water is soft and my taste buds are trained, so I get cocky. I also mix my starsan a little strong.

 

[fearwig]

I also don't see any reason to assume it was the starsan. It could also be the cleaning. Pellicles make equipment very hard to clean. How are you cleaning your equipment?

I'm with you, but if you soak your equipment in appropriately concentrated star san, the beasties die, even if there's gunk, even if there are "pores" or scratches. Duration is significant, though. So is water alkalinity.

 

[DrCrow]

2 gallon tank pump sprayer = the most useful $9.99 I ever spent on my brewery setup.

I have not found any piece of equipment that cannot be sanitized properly with it - no more wasteful buckets of Star-San for me! Since it conserves Star-San, I can mix up 1-1/4 gallon and it's enough to do all of my equipment for a 5 gallon all-grain brew day. I've brewed over 20 batches this way and never had a problem.

Also, using a pump sprayer is fun! :-D

 

[logdrum]

FWIW I have a better bottle with distilled water StanSan that is at least 2 years old, & still checks out under 3 pH. I use that to fill my sprayers, so nothing comes in direct contact, but I also mix up a 2.5 gal batch for dunking that I keep for months. Never had an infection. Check the pH.

 

[day_trippr]

Were you trying to add something constructive to the conversation, rather than just picking at someone for no good reason? If so, you failed miserably. Lighten up...

Um, yeah. I won't be edited by someone wearing a ridiculous hat.

And you can't be so dense as to miss the point that was made.

It was the butler...not the Star San...

Cheers!

 

[troy2000]

Um, yeah. I won't be edited by someone wearing a ridiculous hat.

And you can't be so dense as to miss the point that was made.

It was the butler...not the Star San...

Cheers!

Don't knock the hat. It keeps the sun off in the summer and the rain off in the winter, makes for a great icebreaker at social functions ('where'd you get that hat?' in a wide range of tones from admiring to incredulous), and happens to be the star attraction on my Big Hat Brewing Co. labels....

All in all it's less irritating, more useful, more entertaining and marginally more intelligent than some of the people I deal with on the internet.

Cheers...

 

[mtnagel]

I taste mine to make sure it's under 3. Then again I sometimes just taste my mash, too.

It's not best practice, but my water is soft and my taste buds are trained, so I get cocky. I also mix my starsan a little strong.

I hope I'm missing some sarcasm in this post because if not, WTF?

 

[troy2000]

I hope I'm missing some sarcasm in this post because if not, WTF?

I use Five Star IO-Star sanitizer... and I've been known to test the strength by putting a little dab on the tip of my tongue, if it's in a squirt bottle where I can't see the color.

 

[Yooper]

I use and reuse star-san, and after brewing over 300 batches in the last 8 years, I am on my second bottle. It's over half full.

I mix it up a gallon at a time, and reuse it for everything. I keep some in a squirt bottle and some in a plastic jug.

I don't do it just to save money, although I'm sure that it does. I find it quick and convenient to have a gallon of it always around. Just yesterday, I quickly kegged a 5 gallon batch, and I pulled out the star-san, the keg, and my siphon gear and sanitized everything and kegged the beer. Then, I poured the star-san back in the jug, except for the stuff I spilled while pouring it back.

 

[fearwig]

JU

I hope I'm missing some sarcasm in this post because if not, WTF?

I don't rely on it but anyone can probably taste the difference between 3 and 3.5 if you taste full strength and then diluted for comparison even once.

Or are you just saying it's gross? It's going in my beer, man, damn right I'm willing to taste it. Tastes like acid, that's it. I don't sip it, a bit on the finger is fine. I mouth siphon to get it inside tubing so it doesn't float, too. Another thing you can't do with bleach.

And everyone should learn to taste their mash, not only can it warn you if your meter is way off, you can also gauge conversion from sweetness vs. starchy mouthfeel.

 

[seabass07]

I'm with you, but if you soak your equipment in appropriately concentrated star san, the beasties die, even if there's gunk, even if there are "pores" or scratches. Duration is significant, though. So is water alkalinity.

Not necessarily. Pellicle forming bacteria aren't that easy to get rid of. Best to do a caustic or bleach soak in that case. Stars an alone will not reach all of the bacteria. The pellicle is protection and has to be broken down.

 

[bja]

Would more detail contribute significantly?

Yep, it's conjecture. It's a hobby, so calling in a team of microbiologists to publish a substantiated theory isn't really within my budget or give-a-damn.

More details could possibly give insight to the real cause.

Saying that star san is the cause just because it's convenient is like saying my car tire went flat because the air in it is defective.

 

[troy2000]

More details could possibly give insight to the real cause.

Saying that star san is the cause just because it's convenient is like saying my car tire went flat because the air in it is defective.

Well, actually.... no. No, it isn't. What have you been drinking?

It isn't like saying that in any way I can think of. Because 'defective air' is such a rare cause of damaged tires that even bringing it up would be absurd except in unique circumstances. Whereas there's nothing absurd about thinking a batch of sanitizer that has been reused repeatedly over a long period may no longer be doing its job.....

 

[Homercidal]

I use and reuse star-san, and after brewing over 300 batches in the last 8 years, I am on my second bottle. It's over half full.

I mix it up a gallon at a time, and reuse it for everything. I keep some in a squirt bottle and some in a plastic jug.

I don't do it just to save money, although I'm sure that it does. I find it quick and convenient to have a gallon of it always around. Just yesterday, I quickly kegged a 5 gallon batch, and I pulled out the star-san, the keg, and my siphon gear and sanitized everything and kegged the beer. Then, I poured the star-san back in the jug, except for the stuff I spilled while pouring it back.

Same here. I mix up a 3 Quart jug of it, using a gallon strength, and it lasts months. I use distilled water. It's not really that expensive since I always buy 10 gallons of water from the RO unit at the store and almost always have a bit left over.

Again, it's not the savings, it's the convenience. I keep that jug handy for pouring into a carboy or keg and pour back. I top off the spray bottle, which I use about 80% of the time.

When the 3 quart jug is empty, I mix new.

My water is highly alkaline and while immediately is probably an exaggeration, a few days is probably not, when describing how long it takes for starsan to turn cloudy.