35% Hydrogen Peroxide for sanitation

[WooBoy]

Hey friends,

I'm very new around here, currently working on my first brew (it's a kit, baby steps people). I was going to sanitize my bottles the other night but didn't have chance to go pick up the holy grail of all get out (Star San) so in a desperate attempt to get things moving along, I found that I had some 35% Hydrogen Peroxide kicking around.

I did some reading around online, and because I'm not a chemist, I was thoroughly confused on whether it was reasonable for me to use this stuff or not. Saw a lot about using 3% as a none rinse sanitizer, but as I had 35% I had to work with what I got, and didn't want to muck about with a none rinse method incase I make a mistake and poison myself......more on that fear to come ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

So, what I ended up doing was watering down the peroxide till it was about 9% hydrogen peroxide (1 part 35% HP with 4 parts water), sloshing that around in the bottles, and leaving it to sit for about 10 minutes. Afterward I rinsed the bottles like 5 times, shaking them all around, full rinses, then left them to dry for a few minutes (I know I'm supposed to let them fully dry, I didn't, it was midnight) then bottled my brew.

Because I was washing these bottles at 11 pm, it was a recipe for neurotic thoughts of accidentally poisoning myself when I finally try out this brew - so my question is: with that amount of HP, and having rinsed the bottles 5 times for each bottle, not letting them dry - is there even the remotest possibility that when I pop open these beers in a few weeks that could be any remnant of HP in any quantity that could pose a health risk?

I'll know next time not to do this at midnight, and to use Star San if I want to sleep at ease.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

If it’s any comfort to you, I have diluted HP a little, and used it as mouthwash.

 

[Red over White]

35 volume or 35%? Those are two different things. Not sure we can get 35% peroxide although I would love to at work.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

35 volume or 35%? Those are two different things. Not sure we can get 35% peroxide although I would love to at work.

Hmm. Didn’t catch that. Regular store bought off the shelf is around 3%, I think.

 

[WooBoy]

I believe it is 35%. My sister-in-law got some from a pool cleaning company and gave us a couple jars.

 

[WooBoy]

If it’s any comfort to you, I have diluted HP a little, and used it as mouthwash.

That's hugely comforting! And you can still see? No gastrointestinal meltdowns?

 

[mac_1103]

If it’s any comfort to you, I have diluted HP a little, and used it as mouthwash.

That's hugely comforting! And you can still see? No gastrointestinal meltdowns?

Pretty sure that was the standard 3%, not 35%. The concentrated stuff really isn't a kitchen chemical; you should be wearing gloves and goggles at minimum when using it.

Next time you need to sanitize bottles just stick them in your oven at 170-200F for half an hour.

 

[mac_1103]

Also, FWIW, Chlorox sells a 1.4% hydrogen peroxide solution for use as a surface disenfectant. Required contact time is 30-60 seconds.

 

[Peebee]

Can't find the reference just now; but Hydrogen Peroxide is rated very highly as a disinfectant. Chlorine based (bleach) was only considered okay for floors (and hard surfaces). It was probably an NHS article?

It's hazardous ... don't get it (concentrated) on your eyes, or any soft tissue. Anything over 5% [EDIT: 3%] concentration is a killer (bugs), a bit stronger for best effect. It does decompose readily (to water and oxygen).

I often wonder how effective Sodium Percarbonate is as a killer (I never use it less than 10g per Litre) ... Hydrogen Peroxide is the active principal in that, but it's often overlooked as a cleaner only. As a cleaner, it gets used (not by me!) for drives and pathways about the house! No idea what concentrations you can get of Hydrogen Peroxide from Percarbonate?

 

[Peebee]

Trying to find that reference, I did come across this post of mine in another forum:

If you want an example of "scary", I snipped out this of hydrogen peroxide breakdown (which is a product of percarbonate breakdown):

"superoxide (O2−•) and hydroxyl (•OH) radicals"

It's those dots that do the damage. Stay clear of better explanation, my experience of going down that avenue is panic attacks and fear of ever using the Percarbonate again. Ignorance is bliss ... actually this Prozac ain't too bad either.

 

[Peebee]

Didn't take me long finding it (nowt to do with NHS!):

I dug up that article:

It was from:

https://mycoscience.com/sterilization-vs-sanitization-vs-disinfection/
I usually prefer something more "academic" and "local". Seems I was having a wider search. The above table missed out the iodine stuff:

Bleach (hypochlorite) doesn't come over as great: "Best for floor cleaning"! But I am troubled by these non-academic articles ... what they say is bad is what they don't sell or make money from!

 

[WooBoy]

Pretty sure that was the standard 3%, not 35%. The concentrated stuff really isn't a kitchen chemical; you should be wearing gloves and goggles at minimum when using it.

Next time you need to sanitize bottles just stick them in your oven at 170-200F for half an hour.

I was wearing gloves, shaking the bottles away from my face. For sure it's not intended, but we are where we are for this brew.

I know there are other better options. My question is just what my risk is having used it, and after having rinsed the bottles a lot.

 

[mac_1103]

SDS PDF

You used it at about 6x the concentration needed to disinfect, but you rinsed it off well (which is the recommendation for things that contact food) so that's good. The biggest risk was to your skin, eyes, and airway when you were working with the concentrated stuff. Next time, if there is one, do that part outdoors.

 

[Peebee]

I was wearing gloves, shaking the bottles away from my face. For sure it's not intended, but we are where we are for this brew.

I know there are other better options. My question is just what my risk is having used it, and after having rinsed the bottles a lot.

You've rinsed them? Five times ? I reckon it's safe to say (of doing yourself mischief with them): Not a snowball-in-hells chance.

Ooo look. @mac_1103 has posted, and said nothing to contradict that? Just gather as many confirmations as you need to be comfortable and enjoy your beer!



I'm not so sure about that Star-San stuff? ( ... so, I use that too. But I'd go with Hydrogen Peroxide for preference ... far more suggesting it actually works! But it does have the disadvantage, because of the way it works, of decomposing with time, and don't ask me how long it lasts in its original bottle).

 

[Peebee]

Humm ... that Safety Data Sheet @mac_1103 posted suggests you don't use Peroxide on copper. I might have to stop using Percarbonate on my copper heat-exchanger? Well, it's caked in beerstone at moment (internally!) and not in commission so I'm doing no wrong for now.

 

[PCABrewing]

Didn't take me long finding it (nowt to do with NHS!):

Just a note on alcohol.
The article states "High concentration required".
That can be misleading, stronger is not necessarily better. In fact, stronger can reduce effectiveness on bacterium because of the way the cell wall responds to higher concentrations.
There is an optimal range of something like 64 - 73%. Outside that effectiveness declines.

 

[WooBoy]

You've rinsed them? Five times ? I reckon it's safe to say (of doing yourself mischief with them): Not a snowball-in-hells chance.

Ooo look. @mac_1103 has posted, and said nothing to contradict that? Just gather as many confirmations as you need to be comfortable and enjoy your beer!



I'm not so sure about that Star-San stuff? ( ... so, I use that too. But I'd go with Hydrogen Peroxide for preference ... far more suggesting it actually works! But it does have the disadvantage, because of the way it works, of decomposing with time, and don't ask me how long it lasts in its original bottle).

Mush, your confirmations alone are giving me enough of a cwtch to feel comfortable.

 

[Zippy123]

Just a note on alcohol.
The article states "High concentration required".
That can be misleading, stronger is not necessarily better. In fact, stronger can reduce effectiveness on bacterium because of the way the cell wall responds to higher concentrations.
There is an optimal range of something like 64 - 73%. Outside that effectiveness declines.

Sounds like I will be sanitized by 8pm tonight.

 

[jerrylotto]

Next time you need to sanitize bottles just stick them in your oven at 170-200F for half an hour.

I will second that recommendation, but I use an even higher temperature. After washing them, I heat my bottles to 350F and then let them cool in the oven. That both sanitizes and dries them thoroughly. Caps I boil for 10 minutes because they have plastic liners.

 

[mac_1103]

Not sure we can get 35% peroxide although I would love to at work.

Fisher Scientific sells 30% and 50%. I think 12% is the highest you'll find at Amazon.

 

[Peebee]

Mush, your confirmations alone are giving me enough of a cwtch to feel comfortable.

Ah! I've noticed though that I failed to cover me butt completely: I've declared your beer is safe, but I was talking of peroxide and I've no idea if you've got enemies adding non-peroxide "additions" to your beer . But you've made it this far so I shouldn't have to worry about what you've added to the beer!

Talking of my paranoia ...

Just a note on alcohol.
The article states "High concentration required".
That can be misleading, stronger is not necessarily better. In fact, stronger can reduce effectiveness on bacterium because of the way the cell wall responds to higher concentrations.
There is an optimal range of something like 64 - 73%. Outside that effectiveness declines.

Yeah ... but they do stipulate 70% alcohol. I admit all my knowledge of alcohol's sanitizing power comes from that brush with a nasty virus (Covid). I thought 40% was enough previously and had to put aside ideas of carrying a bottle of whisky with me. Still, I was too late learning that alcohol can be too strong and bought hellish expensive 99% isopropyl alcohol ... which I then had to dilute. I did know not to drink it though (remarkable?).

 

[PCABrewing]

99% isopropyl alcohol ... which I then had to dilute. I did know not to drink it though (remarkable?).

Definitely not the best tasting stuff...

 

[Peebee]

A few other extras I've gleaned in my hunt to find definitive information (not "opinions" or "contradictory bumff") about Hydrogen Peroxide and Sodium Percarbonate:

Firstly (without looking far!):

Chlorox sells a 1.4% hydrogen peroxide solution for use as a surface disinfectant Required contact time is 30-60 seconds.

So, 3% concentration isn't a necessity? Back in the UK we can get something called "Suresan" sold by Harris as a surface sanitiser for breweries ... it's Sodium Percarbonate, though at the recommended mix (5g in one litre) it may only provide a H2O2 concentration a tenth of what the Chlorox stuff is (but Harris do recommend a 15-minute contact time and a 1-hour lifetime).

Presumably, if using Percarbonate as a cleaner dealing with a lot of grime, you can't also rely on the hydrogen peroxide evolved to properly sanitise a surface? Hence the recommendation that Percarbonate isn't a sanitiser? But fresh Percarbonate on cleaned surfaces is a sanitiser? And a H2O2 concentration considerably less than 3% will do the job?

I wish I could find something more "definitive" about Hydrogen Peroxide and Sodium Percarbonate! Percarbonate is cheap, readily available, and unlikely to become unavailable because some lunatics attempt to abuse the stuff (H2O2 to make bombs!). I understand another very effective cleaner/sanitiser relies on H2O2 in its manufacture and action: Peracetic Acid? ... And that's getting difficult to find too.