How old is your Star San?

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I tend to stick to iodophor for my primary fermentations (I've had really old bottes, 5+ years), but don't think that stuff goes bad as easily. Its also a bit more powerful at killing than acid based sanitizers, plus I don't have to worry about it corroding / leaching plastic parts on my fermzilla.

Saniclean (low foaming starsan) I use for keg purging, but risk of infection at that stage is much lower. I do try to replace those bottles every two years or so. Starsan I just keep in a spray bottle for odds and ends, probably bottles as old as 3 years. Never had an infection, but think its because I use iodophor.

 

[ncbrewer]

It is really hard to test the efficacy of a sanitizer on a homebrew scale. According to Charley Talley, in a Basic Brewing podcast from 2007, cleaning theoretically eliminates the need for sanitizing. Sanitizing is insurance.) My link no longer works, but I originally found it at http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390...02309332&hwt=0192dc634456fee5bb9035ebf1b67a2e if anyone is looking for it.) I can add to this that my wife has made wine for years and never used a sanitizer, and has had no infections. My conclusion is that lack of infections doesn't mean the sanitizer is working.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

According to Charley Talley, in a Basic Brewing podcast from 2007

Might be this episode (but I haven't listened to it)

Basic Brewing Radio 2007 episode list (link)

 

[Brewdog80]

You do have to understand that some bugs can get a resistance to one sanitizer. Your starsan is not the problem, it is that it is all you use. Do an idophor sanitize of everything and I'd bet you will eliminate the issues. Go back and forth every few brews

 

[ncbrewer]

I understand Iodophor will stain surfaces that it contacts. Is that correct? (I brew in the kitchen and don't want to stain the countertops.)

 

[Brewdog80]

If you have at a high % and leave on a surface it may stain. It will stain most hoses. It IS iodine

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I understand Iodophor will stain surfaces that it contacts. Is that correct? (I brew in the kitchen and don't want to stain the countertops.)

I don't think anything you are sanitizing with iodine needs to go on the counter

 

[Brooothru]

I don't think anything you are sanitizing with iodine needs to go on the counter

Spills. I always have spills, generally in the most inaccessible and damaging places. Just like nuts, bolts and washers. At least I can usually get those with a magnet rod.

 

[Jonakr]

I seriously doubt it's the Star San unless it was exposed to some severe heat or other kind of damage. I would buy a small bottle of Star San as suggested and try that. I've used 5 to 6 year old Star San without any problems.

DMF

Yeah, mine's at least that old.

 

[NoCornOrRice]

I had a bottle of StarSan that was several years old, not sure how many. It turned light brown-ish and smelled like fish.

 

[Jonakr]

Those white ones are much easier to (dis)assemble than the old red handles ones. The body being one piece is nice, too. The body of the red handle ones is 2-piece to allow swivelling. I threw out all the red ones shortly after trying my first white one.

If anyone is still using the red ones and is annoyed by cleaning them, try the all-white ones.

I just needed to push the sections apart on a hard surface. Full dis-assembly for cleaning. I haven't used it in years, though.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I just want to know how you guys make it last so long. (bottle of StarSan, that is).

I don't use a lot of Star San, for starters. My current 32oz bottle is about five years old. It's getting low, but I should be good for another year.

I prefer to use Idophor-based sanitizers in my fermenters and kegs, they don't foam so I can use them with pumps/CO2pressure and they're *certain* killers, if short-lived in their efficacy.

Star San, while convenient is a bit more fussy, given the pH, water chemistry, and foaming stuff. I keep a covered five-gallon bucket of it handy for spot sanitizing, specifically for hoses, 02 wands, and hardware internals. Frankly, aside from the 02 wand (which I boil after every use), I do not trust Star San. I change out the bucket on a quarterly basis.

I'm not knocking it. It's good stuff and I like to use it in addition to Idophor in my fermenters and kegs, but I kinda think of it as being a rubber vs. the pill. The first works mostly okay, but anyone that has relied on one knows better, the other gives you peace of mind.

 

[beren]

I started using starsan everywhere. Kids water bottle? Rinse and spray. See an ant? Spray it. Been a week since bathroom was scrubbed? Spray the tub walls down.

 

[beren]

I prefer to use Idophor-based sanitizers in my fermenters and kegs

For deep cleaning I do bleach + vinegar it’s about the best killer there is, and no rinse as well.

 

[Mutant]

Slightly off topic: I keep two kegs filled with StarSan mix. One I use for filling spray bottles, containers, and other situations where the StarSan isn't reused. I have another keg that I use to transfer into sanitize cleaned kegs, then return that back into the StarSan keg #2. I replace the StarSan in that keg #2 about every 4 to 6 weeks.

 

[Murrayatuptown]

I was going to ask if a 3-gallon jug of distilled water I added 3 gal. dose of Star-San to & labeled 3 years ago but didn't use, is still usable.

I doubted it and made fresh batches for some small jobs.

The Star-San is now about that old (3 years).

I think I will just dump the 3 gallon premix and neither mix more not buy another StarSan bottle until I actually have a brew day scheduled.

I am still curious if dilution to working strength has other modes of deterioration like oxidization, in- or out-gassing thru plastic bottle (HDPE?) to put some more justification behind the dumping decree.

Thanks

 

[sibelman]

modes of deterioration

I've read that cloudiness means it's time to dump. Plus the packaging says something about using promptly. I often reuse my diluted StarSan, but I'd dump your 3 gallon dilution.

 

[ncbrewer]

Charlie Talley (inventor and retired company president) had a couple of interesting things to say.

In a Brewing Network podcast The Session 03-19-06 Sanitation w/ Charlie Talley | The Brewing Network he said that in a spray bottle of Star san, closed - it probably stays good indefinitely.

In another podcast http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390...02309332&hwt=0192dc634456fee5bb9035ebf1b67a2e he said that the EPA requires new batch every time. But actually, if made with deionized water (no minerals in the water), it will last months.

Talley let out a lot of information that it doesn't say on the label.

 

[day_trippr]

if made with deionized water (no minerals in the water), it will last months.

The stuff has legs in pure water. As I occasionally use Star San mix for purging kegs I make up a 6 gallon batch using my single digit TDS RO water, top it up every so often, check the pH is still under 3 (it's usually around 2.5-ish for its entire lifetime) and keep it around for up to 6 months before mixing a new batch...

Cheers!

 

[Yesfan]

I would think as long as the ph is under 3 (even if it's cloudy), it's good. If you've had your Starsan bottle for a long time, smell it. I had a 32oz bottle I used for years. It developed an odd smell. I bought a 16 oz bottle since the larger one lasted so long and was almost empty (about 4 oz left). The two bottles smelled different from each other. I can't describe the older bottle's smell, but it didn't give me a good vibe. I never got an infection from using it to sanitize, but it didn't have that "fresh sanitized smell" to it after sanitizing my vessels, if that's even a thing.

EDIT: I posted about this earlier in this thread around August. Did anyone else have a similar situation?

 

[MaxStout]

I would think as long as the ph is under 3 (even if it's cloudy), it's good. If you've had your Starsan bottle for a long time, smell it. I had a 32oz bottle I used for years. It developed an odd smell. I bought a 16 oz bottle since the larger one lasted so long and was almost empty (about 4 oz left). The two bottles smelled different from each other. I can't describe the older bottle's smell, but it didn't give me a good vibe. I never got an infection from using it to sanitize, but it didn't have that "fresh sanitized smell" to it after sanitizing my vessels, if that's even a thing.

EDIT: I posted about this earlier in this thread around August. Did anyone else have a similar situation?

A few years ago I bought some used gear from a Craigslister. Included was a small, opened bottle of StarSan. It was quite old and had a different label than they use today. It smelled funny, like a cross between medicinal and metallic. I tossed it.

 

[redrocker652002]

It surprises me (old) age being the issue. How dark is the concentrate now compared to a new bottle?

My gallon jug of Starsan is from 2017-2018, IIRC, and a bit past half empty now. It may be a tad darker than originally, but at 5-6 years old it still behaves and seems to work as fine as it always has.

I have been putting my used StarSan mixture into a 5 gallon Carboy, but have not used it as it has been sitting out in the shop for about 6 months. You are saying that it will last years? Damn, I need to read up more on this. LOL.

 

[ncbrewer]

I have been putting my used StarSan mixture into a 5 gallon Carboy, but have not used it as it has been sitting out in the shop for about 6 months. You are saying that it will last years? Damn, I need to read up more on this. LOL.

There have been several podcasts featuring Charley Talley, and some with John Herskovits. Mr. Talley had a tendency to talk about what actually works as opposed to just what the EPA regulations call for. You can learn a lot from listening to these. Here are the ones that I've earmarked:
• http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390...02309332&hwt=0192dc634456fee5bb9035ebf1b67a2e
• The Session 03-19-06 Sanitation w/ Charlie Talley | The Brewing Network
• Charlie Talley (Five-Star Chemicals) Notes from Brewcasts
• Brew Strong: 11-10-08 Cleaning | The Brewing Network
• Brew Strong 01-05-09 Sanitation | The Brewing Network
• https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/39...63138752&hwt=b1b31de9b909f589d9b5b7b0adb4c6ab

 

[IslandLizard]

I have been putting my used StarSan mixture into a 5 gallon Carboy, but have not used it as it has been sitting out in the shop for about 6 months. You are saying that it will last years? Damn, I need to read up more on this. LOL.

I was referring to the concentrate, though, lasting for many years:

It surprises me (old) age being the issue. How dark is the concentrate now compared to a new bottle?

My gallon jug of Starsan [concentrate] is from 2017-2018, IIRC, and a bit past half empty now. It may be a tad darker than originally, but at 5-6 years old it still behaves and seems to work as fine as it always has.

 

[beren]

I was referring to the concentrate, though, lasting for many years:

Mine’s older than my kids.