Star San reuse word of warning

[day_trippr]

Were you trying to add something constructive to the conversation, rather than just picking at someone for no good reason? If so, you failed miserably. Lighten up...

Um, yeah. I won't be edited by someone wearing a ridiculous hat.

And you can't be so dense as to miss the point that was made.

It was the butler...not the Star San...

Cheers!

 

[troy2000]

Um, yeah. I won't be edited by someone wearing a ridiculous hat.

And you can't be so dense as to miss the point that was made.

It was the butler...not the Star San...

Cheers!

Don't knock the hat. It keeps the sun off in the summer and the rain off in the winter, makes for a great icebreaker at social functions ('where'd you get that hat?' in a wide range of tones from admiring to incredulous), and happens to be the star attraction on my Big Hat Brewing Co. labels....

All in all it's less irritating, more useful, more entertaining and marginally more intelligent than some of the people I deal with on the internet.

Cheers...

 

[mtnagel]

I taste mine to make sure it's under 3. Then again I sometimes just taste my mash, too.

It's not best practice, but my water is soft and my taste buds are trained, so I get cocky. I also mix my starsan a little strong.

I hope I'm missing some sarcasm in this post because if not, WTF?

 

[troy2000]

I hope I'm missing some sarcasm in this post because if not, WTF?

I use Five Star IO-Star sanitizer... and I've been known to test the strength by putting a little dab on the tip of my tongue, if it's in a squirt bottle where I can't see the color.

 

[Yooper]

I use and reuse star-san, and after brewing over 300 batches in the last 8 years, I am on my second bottle. It's over half full.

I mix it up a gallon at a time, and reuse it for everything. I keep some in a squirt bottle and some in a plastic jug.

I don't do it just to save money, although I'm sure that it does. I find it quick and convenient to have a gallon of it always around. Just yesterday, I quickly kegged a 5 gallon batch, and I pulled out the star-san, the keg, and my siphon gear and sanitized everything and kegged the beer. Then, I poured the star-san back in the jug, except for the stuff I spilled while pouring it back.

 

[fearwig]

JU

I hope I'm missing some sarcasm in this post because if not, WTF?

I don't rely on it but anyone can probably taste the difference between 3 and 3.5 if you taste full strength and then diluted for comparison even once.

Or are you just saying it's gross? It's going in my beer, man, damn right I'm willing to taste it. Tastes like acid, that's it. I don't sip it, a bit on the finger is fine. I mouth siphon to get it inside tubing so it doesn't float, too. Another thing you can't do with bleach.

And everyone should learn to taste their mash, not only can it warn you if your meter is way off, you can also gauge conversion from sweetness vs. starchy mouthfeel.

 

[seabass07]

I'm with you, but if you soak your equipment in appropriately concentrated star san, the beasties die, even if there's gunk, even if there are "pores" or scratches. Duration is significant, though. So is water alkalinity.

Not necessarily. Pellicle forming bacteria aren't that easy to get rid of. Best to do a caustic or bleach soak in that case. Stars an alone will not reach all of the bacteria. The pellicle is protection and has to be broken down.

 

[bja]

Would more detail contribute significantly?

Yep, it's conjecture. It's a hobby, so calling in a team of microbiologists to publish a substantiated theory isn't really within my budget or give-a-damn.

More details could possibly give insight to the real cause.

Saying that star san is the cause just because it's convenient is like saying my car tire went flat because the air in it is defective.

 

[troy2000]

More details could possibly give insight to the real cause.

Saying that star san is the cause just because it's convenient is like saying my car tire went flat because the air in it is defective.

Well, actually.... no. No, it isn't. What have you been drinking?

It isn't like saying that in any way I can think of. Because 'defective air' is such a rare cause of damaged tires that even bringing it up would be absurd except in unique circumstances. Whereas there's nothing absurd about thinking a batch of sanitizer that has been reused repeatedly over a long period may no longer be doing its job.....

 

[Homercidal]

I use and reuse star-san, and after brewing over 300 batches in the last 8 years, I am on my second bottle. It's over half full.

I mix it up a gallon at a time, and reuse it for everything. I keep some in a squirt bottle and some in a plastic jug.

I don't do it just to save money, although I'm sure that it does. I find it quick and convenient to have a gallon of it always around. Just yesterday, I quickly kegged a 5 gallon batch, and I pulled out the star-san, the keg, and my siphon gear and sanitized everything and kegged the beer. Then, I poured the star-san back in the jug, except for the stuff I spilled while pouring it back.

Same here. I mix up a 3 Quart jug of it, using a gallon strength, and it lasts months. I use distilled water. It's not really that expensive since I always buy 10 gallons of water from the RO unit at the store and almost always have a bit left over.

Again, it's not the savings, it's the convenience. I keep that jug handy for pouring into a carboy or keg and pour back. I top off the spray bottle, which I use about 80% of the time.

When the 3 quart jug is empty, I mix new.

My water is highly alkaline and while immediately is probably an exaggeration, a few days is probably not, when describing how long it takes for starsan to turn cloudy.

 

[BamaPhil]

Good lord I didn't think this would result in so much "you have no proof!" commentary.

Look, if I was prosecuting Star-San, I wouldn't get a guilty verdict in criminal court against the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. I probably couldn't even get a civil judgment with a "preponderance of the evidence."

We're talking about the growth of microscopic cells here. I don't care if the CDC set up shop in my house, we'll never really KNOW what did it. I was just pointing out that the oft-repeated concept of judging sanitizer effectiveness by visual appearance alone may be an oversimplification.

I bought some acid test strips to check it out in the future. If I had already had them and knew the pH of the stuff beforehand, don't you think I would have mentioned that? I blame the star san (more appropriately, my use of it) based on Occam's razor: the simplest explanation should be tested first. It was the only commonality between the 3 batches, other than the obvious stuff like kettle, primary fermenter, etc. Could it have been a cleaning issue? Absolutely. Do I find that less likely since my cleaning procedures (Oxyclean soak, scrub, rinse, dry) have remained unchanged from batch to batch? Yep. Do I wish I had kept the old sanitizer and tested its pH for research purposes? I sure do.

If my next batch turns out fine I'm gonna declare it absolute proof that it was the star San, just to get under some of y'all's skin


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[LandoLincoln]

Good lord I didn't think this would result in so much "you have no proof!" commentary.

Look, if I was prosecuting Star-San, I wouldn't get a guilty verdict in criminal court against the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. I probably couldn't even get a civil judgment with a "preponderance of the evidence."

We're talking about the growth of microscopic cells here. I don't care if the CDC set up shop in my house, we'll never really KNOW what did it. I was just pointing out that the oft-repeated concept of judging sanitizer effectiveness by visual appearance alone may be an oversimplification.

I bought some acid test strips to check it out in the future. If I had already had them and knew the pH of the stuff beforehand, don't you think I would have mentioned that? I blame the star san (more appropriately, my use of it) based on Occam's razor: the simplest explanation should be tested first. It was the only commonality between the 3 batches, other than the obvious stuff like kettle, primary fermenter, etc. Could it have been a cleaning issue? Absolutely. Do I find that less likely since my cleaning procedures (Oxyclean soak, scrub, rinse, dry) have remained unchanged from batch to batch? Yep. Do I wish I had kept the old sanitizer and tested its pH for research purposes? I sure do.

If my next batch turns out fine I'm gonna declare it absolute proof that it was the star San, just to get under some of y'all's skin

Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

Star San doesn't go bad because you use the same batch too much.

Star San doesn't go bad when it gets cloudy either.

Star San goes bad when the pH goes above 3.

You did not verify that the Star San pH was above 3. You just assumed that the sanitizer went bad because you used it a lot.

You are telling people that Star San goes bad if you use it too many times.

This is not true. Stop telling people this.

 

[millhouse9]

I just used distilled water, which is 88 cents a gallon at the local supermarket, and a spray bottle. I spray everything down with star san and that works pretty well for me. I've had the same 32 oz star san bottle for the last 4 years and it still has plenty left in it.

 

[day_trippr]

Don't knock the hat. It keeps the sun off in the summer and the rain off in the winter, makes for a great icebreaker at social functions ('where'd you get that hat?' in a wide range of tones from admiring to incredulous), and happens to be the star attraction on my Big Hat Brewing Co. labels....

All in all it's less irritating, more useful, more entertaining and marginally more intelligent than some of the people I deal with on the internet.

Cheers...

Dude....You and "hat" should get a room...

Cheers!

 

[copyright1997]

I've used starSan over 6 months old without issues. I have a gallon bottle of StarSan, so that's enough to make 640 gallons of StarSan/water mixture...and I still scrimp. Here's what I do:
1. When I need StarSan, I sometimes mix up 5 gallons worth (1 ounce) in a clean corny keg. Pressurize with co2, and you are ready to go. This works great. When I am done with a keg with beer in it, I clean the keg, then do about 20 seconds worth of Star San to the keg, add co2 to the keg, shake and then let the keg sit w/the quart or so of StarSan in it sit until I need that keg again for another batch (which could be hours or months). I've used kegs that had been sitting over 6 months, shake them up and the Star San in them has been fine. Same deal for plastic or glass carboys. For these, after cleaning and adding some StarSan and shaking, it seal the openings and again let it sit for hours/days/months until I use the carboy again. When I finally use it, I shake a lot and pour out the StarSan and the carboy is ready to go.
2. I have two spray jars with mixture in it, which I use to liberally spray anything coming into contact with wort. I use this for the vast majority of sanitizing of equipment on brew day.
3. Since I bottle from keg, when I am going to do this I will mix up some in a bucket, or get it from my pressurized corny keg. Since I usually do keg to bottles in batches, e.g. 4-5 kegs worth over a few days, I will just keep the StarSan in the bucket, use it repeatedly to sanitize the bottles (which I then freeze in ziplock bags which I've also StarSan'd the insides). After a few days/couple weeks I usually dump this because it has gotten crap in there.

In over 50 batches, I had an infection problem in only one...and that was due to the airlock drying out as I neglected the beer in the primary for too long (like an extra 2 months).

p.s. I agree with the idea of a ph meter....looking into buying one now...

 

[troy2000]

Dude....You and "hat" should get a room...

Cheers!

No, you should get a life. There are few things more pathetic than watching someone try to fill the void inside with obnoxious public behavior, ranging from irrational nitpicking to dumping on avatars....

 

[day_trippr]

No, you should get a life. There are few things more pathetic than watching someone try to fill the void inside with obnoxious public behavior, ranging from irrational nitpicking to dumping on avatars....

[edit]

Cheers!

 

[troy2000]

Star San doesn't go bad because you use the same batch too much.

Star San doesn't go bad when it gets cloudy either.

Star San goes bad when the pH goes above 3.

You did not verify that the Star San pH was above 3. You just assumed that the sanitizer went bad because you used it a lot.

You are telling people that Star San goes bad if you use it too many times.

This is not true. Stop telling people this.

So you're saying Star San doesn't go bad, no matter how many times it's reused? Why not? Everything else from motor oil to dish soap has a finite useful life span; why shouldn't Star San?

I'm a little puzzled by all the negativity and downright hostility that's getting thrown at the OP. Yeah, yeah, I know. He coulda tested the ph, to be sure. But his basic premise doesn't sound all that loopy to me: if you reuse the stuff too many times and get too much crud in it, it might stop working. So what's wrong with him telling people to keep that in mind, instead of just assuming it's immortal?

 

[orangemen5]

I've used star sans in hard tap water for up to 3 months with out issue. Its cloudy the whole time. I've pushed it longer due to laziness and still never had an infection. It really doesn't worry me.

 

[LandoLincoln]

So you're saying Star San doesn't go bad, no matter how many times it's reused? Why not? Everything else from motor oil to dish soap has a finite useful life span; why shouldn't Star San?

I'm a little puzzled by all the negativity and downright hostility that's getting thrown at the OP. Yeah, yeah, I know. He coulda tested the ph, to be sure. But his basic premise doesn't sound all that loopy to me: if you reuse the stuff too many times and get too much crud in it, it might stop working. So what's wrong with him telling people to keep that in mind, instead of just assuming it's immortal?

I'm saying that the only reliable way to see if Star San is still a viable sanitizer is by checking the pH. That's it. None of this, "gee, I wonder if I used it too much" nonsense. Motor oil typically goes bad when it gets opaque. Dish soap goes bad when it doesn't make bubbles anymore. Star San goes bad when the pH rises above 3.

Let's say that you rinse a thousand perfectly clean carboys with the same five gallons of Star San. Is the Star San going to lose its' effectiveness? No, it won't, because there were no baddies for the Star San to negate. It's a simple function. As the Star San gets used up, the pH rises. If the pH is below 3, then you're good to go.

If you don't have a pH meter and you use distilled water with your Star San, then it's a pretty safe bet that if your Star San is still clear, then your Star San's pH is below 3. If you don't have a pH meter and you don't use distilled water with your Star San, then yeah, you should definitely change out your sanitizer pretty frequently to be on the safe side.

 

[redshift76]

So you're saying Star San doesn't go bad, no matter how many times it's reused? Why not? Everything else from motor oil to dish soap has a finite useful life span; why shouldn't Star San?

I'm a little puzzled by all the negativity and downright hostility that's getting thrown at the OP. Yeah, yeah, I know. He coulda tested the ph, to be sure. But his basic premise doesn't sound all that loopy to me: if you reuse the stuff too many times and get too much crud in it, it might stop working. So what's wrong with him telling people to keep that in mind, instead of just assuming it's immortal?

I mix 4 gallons of Star San in the early spring and use it for 6+ months. I reuse those 4 gallons many times per week for everything involved in making starters, bottling, brewing, kegging gets a quick soak or is used to rinse then gets poured back into the original holding bucket. There is usually some debris that has sunk to bottom but I don't care, I never use the entire 4 gallons at 1 time anyway, the sand and crap stays at the bottom. I mix Stan San with distilled water & check the pH every couple weeks with a meter. I don't care about the 'crud' or the 'reuse', this has nothing to do with its effectiveness. As long as the pH is under 3, I know its doing what it was designed to do.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Flboy]

Good lord I didn't think this would result in so much "you have no proof!" commentary.

Look, if I was prosecuting Star-San, I wouldn't get a guilty verdict in criminal court against the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. I probably couldn't even get a civil judgment with a "preponderance of the evidence."

We're talking about the growth of microscopic cells here. I don't care if the CDC set up shop in my house, we'll never really KNOW what did it. I was just pointing out that the oft-repeated concept of judging sanitizer effectiveness by visual appearance alone may be an oversimplification.

I bought some acid test strips to check it out in the future. If I had already had them and knew the pH of the stuff beforehand, don't you think I would have mentioned that? I blame the star san (more appropriately, my use of it) based on Occam's razor: the simplest explanation should be tested first. It was the only commonality between the 3 batches, other than the obvious stuff like kettle, primary fermenter, etc. Could it have been a cleaning issue? Absolutely. Do I find that less likely since my cleaning procedures (Oxyclean soak, scrub, rinse, dry) have remained unchanged from batch to batch? Yep. Do I wish I had kept the old sanitizer and tested its pH for research purposes? I sure do.

If my next batch turns out fine I'm gonna declare it absolute proof that it was the star San, just to get under some of y'all's skin

Kill the messenger! Off with your head!
Could have been worse, ya might have been screaming about zinc. I still feel those bruises!
Full moon!

 

[BamaPhil]

Star San doesn't go bad because you use the same batch too much.

Star San doesn't go bad when it gets cloudy either.

Star San goes bad when the pH goes above 3.

You did not verify that the Star San pH was above 3. You just assumed that the sanitizer went bad because you used it a lot.

You are telling people that Star San goes bad if you use it too many times.

This is not true. Stop telling people this.

Yes, sir.

*Leaves room with tail between legs, ashamed of my poor methodology*

 

[troy2000]

I feel like I've been hanging out in a political forum. Excuse me while I go take a shower....