Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[Kent88]

GM’s electric vehicles will gain access to Tesla’s vast charging network

Old article I thought I would include:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/11/business/tesla-opening-charger-network/index.html

 

[Airborneguy]

As a Tesla owner, I’m not overly excited for this. There are benefits - a quicker expansion of the network, maybe - but in the short term there could be massive downsides.

Most outside EVs don’t have their port in the same location as Teslas, causing them to occupy two spots. They don’t accept a charge as quickly. They may not report the stall in use and definitely won’t report the blocked stall, leading Teslas to be routed to a charger with no available stalls.

I have other concerns as well.

 

[Kent88]

Sounds like it'll take 2-3 years before we see non-Teslas charging in Tesla stations.

 

[Airborneguy]

I hope so!

 

[day_trippr]

I bet Tesla spins off their charging network into a standalone corporation about the same time...

Cheers!

 

[Kent88]

I bet Tesla spin's off their charging network into a standalone corporation about the same time...

Cheers!

I would be ok with that.

 

[Airborneguy]

I don’t see that happening. Even the solar and power walls are Tesla. That’s clearly ripe for being a separate entity.

 

[day_trippr]

Different paradigm: unlike the storage battery and roof-top solar biz, the charger bidness will want/need to appear brand agnostic to optimize revenue opportunities vis a vis state sponsored charging stations on tollways and the like...

Cheers!

 

[madscientist451]

As a Tesla owner, I’m not overly excited for this. There are benefits - a quicker expansion of the network, maybe - but in the short term there could be massive downsides.

Most outside EVs don’t have their port in the same location as Teslas, causing them to occupy two spots. They don’t accept a charge as quickly. They may not report the stall in use and definitely won’t report the blocked stall, leading Teslas to be routed to a charger with no available stalls.

I have other concerns as well.

Since it takes three times longer to charge vs fill your tank with gas, won't there need to be three times as many charging stations compared to current gas pumps? Of course this will happen gradually, and at the same time the number of gas pumps will start to diminish.

 

[Kent88]

Since it takes three times longer to charge vs fill your tank with gas, won't there need to be three times as many charging stations compared to current gas pumps?

When you consider that every garage with an outlet is a charging station, we've probably already hit that mark.

 

[Airborneguy]

Since it takes three times longer to charge vs fill your tank with gas, won't there need to be three times as many charging stations compared to current gas pumps? Of course this will happen gradually, and at the same time the number of gas pumps will start to diminish.

No because unlike gas cars, electric cars can be fueled at home.

99% of the time my car charges at night. If you really want to put a time sink on it, it take me less than 5 seconds to plug in.

In other words, it actually takes you about 60 times longer to fuel your car on average. More though because because you have to go somewhere else to do it. I know this because I drove gas cars for 27 years and have nightmares about having to go back to that inconvenient system on a regular basis.

Working extra time into commutes, having to stop for gas on the way home after crappy days at work, going around to the opposite side of a busy street to get to it, waiting on lines every time you need fuel as opposed to only on occasional roadtrips, stopping in bad weather… I’m sure I could think of more but I’d rather not lol.

 

[madscientist451]

My comment had nothing to do with charging at home and was based on the quoted remarks that indicated some people take up 2 spots take longer to charge and etc....
Not everyone will have access to charging at home, and the bigger concern is going on a long trip where you may have to recharge several times. Right now the charging places I see are usually empty or almost empty, but that's all going to change. At some point, there will be more charging spots than gas pumps, but its going to take a while to get there.

 

[RePete]

Looking for one at the moment. Is Nissan Leaf a good option?

Are you talking new or used? If used, the older ones had problems with battery degradation. Still, they can be useful vehicles. I know one guy who bought an older one which only gets 50-60 miles of range. But he only paid $6k for it. He uses it to drive for local trips To the store, etc. Which is how cars get used most of the time. My Volt gets about that much range, and I often get through a day of driving it on appointments for work without dipping into the gas. It’s been great.

So, it just depends on how you plan to use it.

 

[Airborneguy]

My comment had nothing to do with charging at home and was based on the quoted remarks that indicated some people take up 2 spots take longer to charge and etc....
Not everyone will have access to charging at home, and the bigger concern is going on a long trip where you may have to recharge several times. Right now the charging places I see are usually empty or almost empty, but that's all going to change. At some point, there will be more charging spots than gas pumps, but its going to take a while to get there.

Still though, overall, less electric stalls should be necessary. In the US something like 65% of the population are homeowners. Most of those should have access to home charging. You don't need a garage, just an outside plug.

Of the 35% who don't own homes, and the homeowners who have no access to outside electricity convenient to their parking location, many won't switch for years or even decades. I don't see gas cars going away any time soon. Only a handful of states have passed phase-out laws and even those can change should viable solutions not emerge for those who don't have access to home charging.

 

[mac_1103]

Since it takes three times longer to charge vs fill your tank with gas, won't there need to be three times as many charging stations compared to current gas pumps?

Since you're talking about long drives, does this include the time spent waiting in line for gas on the Jersey Turnpike on a holiday weekend?

 

[Airborneguy]

Since you're talking about long drives, does this include the time spent waiting in line for gas on the Jersey Turnpike on a holiday weekend?

No joke moving to NJ played heavily into my decision to switch, in more ways than one.

On the positive side, no sales tax, no inspections, no added registration fee, and much cheaper electricity than NY.

The negative motivation: no self-service gas. The worst.

Wanna laugh? I’m posting this from a gas station lol. I’m waiting to meet someone.

 

[mac_1103]

I’m posting this from a gas station lol. I’m waiting to meet someone.

I dunno, sounds pretty sketchy to me. Especially in New Jersey.

 

[Airborneguy]

I dunno, sounds pretty sketchy to me. Especially in New Jersey.

Divorced dad life.

 

[Jonakr]

I can see the "it hides everything", but you still have to drive around in a gold car... I'd almost hope the dirt hides the gold paint

Nope. To add insult to injury, it was a wagon.

To be fair, we had it for 20+ years, and 200,000+ miles, so it was a trooper.

Could have been worse, could have been a mini-van or a BMW...

 

[passedpawn]

I’m posting this from a gas station lol. I’m waiting to meet someone.

 

[bleme]

Are you talking new or used? If used, the older ones had problems with battery degradation. Still, they can be useful vehicles. I know one guy who bought an older one which only gets 50-60 miles of range. But he only paid $6k for it. He uses it to drive for local trips To the store, etc. Which is how cars get used most of the time. My Volt gets about that much range, and I often get through a day of driving it on appointments for work without dipping into the gas. It’s been great.

So, it just depends on how you plan to use it.

My mom is looking for a used Leaf/Volt/Bolt. Her daily max is about 25 miles but, 4 is more likely.

 

[Kharnynb]

so...I saw this lovely matte black i8 roadster today on the road....damn if I ever win the lottery, i might be getting a hybrid

 

[AzOr]

My mom is looking for a used Leaf/Volt/Bolt. Her daily max is about 25 miles but, 4 is more likely.

I have a friend who loves his Volt. He bought it used. Iirc he gets 35-40 electric miles before the gas engine kicks in.

 

[Kent88]

This guy made kind of a dry video, but it's informative and I appreciate how he emphasizes that one needs to look at how they typically use their vehicle. I think I've pointed out that we shouldn't get hung up on outliers.

 

[Airborneguy]

That’s the crux of the argument but it is very hard to have honest and respectful discussions on this topic because for one, cars have always been a “rah rah tough guy manly man” world and b) politics have poisoned the EV debate beyond repair for some people.

It’s all too common to see “oh yeah? Well my car fuels in 5 minutes and can go 500 more miles!” as an attempted gotcha.

It’s stupid because a) that’s a lie for most cars and b) bragging about having to get fuel outside of your own home is no accomplishment.

Another problem is the most adamant anti’s brag about “never seeing them.” Well how unintelligent does one have to be to argue definitively against something they’ve never even seen, much less operated? The anti’s seem to forget that this technology is new enough that all of us who own them have extensive ICE-vehicle experience. For the most part, when we say something, it comes from having knowledge of both sides of the argument, while they’re arguing on pure ignorance.

Back to outliers… unfortunately that’s how most people operate. They make their decisions based on the worst case scenario, or something they do 1-2 times a year, eschewing more tangible benefits they could enjoy daily. While car buying is a major example of this type of decision making, it’s in no way limited to this topic.

 

[Airborneguy]

Another short-sighted statement I hate is, "Oh yeah? Well tell that to the farmers!"

No, you tell it to the farmers because I like to believe they aren't as stupid as you're making them out to be. Farmers know that an electric truck is perfect for when one lives 20-30 miles from the nearest gas station.

 

[Kent88]

It’s all too common to see “oh yeah? Well my car fuels in 5 minutes and can go 500 more miles!” as an attempted gotcha.

It’s stupid because a) that’s a lie for most cars and b) bragging about having to get fuel outside of your own home is no accomplishment.

C) it's uncommon for me in my Volt to go under 600 miles on a tank of gas + home charging. It's not uncommon for me to go over 1000 miles on a tank of gas + home charging. I think my Volt is rated at 53mi per full charge, and I think a full gas tank is supposed to get me something like 370mi. Earlier this week my wife commented on how she usually forgets about the gas cap unlock button in the car because she's probably only put gas in a handful of times in the few years we've had it, and I don't think I have put gas in much more than she has. We knew that we didn't need this car for road trips, and so charging is just a non-issue.

Back to outliers… unfortunately that’s how most people operate. They make their decisions based on the worst case scenario, or something they do 1-2 times a year, eschewing more tangible benefits they could enjoy daily.

Agreed.

Another short-sighted statement I hate is, "Oh yeah? Well tell that to the farmers!"

No, you tell it to the farmers because I like to believe they aren't as stupid as you're making them out to be. Farmers know that an electric truck is perfect for when one lives 20-30 miles from the nearest gas station.

I grew up on a farm. I can see a lot of benefits for farmers to drive electric vehicles. The outlier I saw most was pulling a livestock trailer to buy calves or sell market ready steers. Even in that case, the trucks that are hitting the market now, or are about to (which I think of as first gen EV trucks, I'm excited to see what EV trucks will be like in 5 years), would probably be able to take care of what my family did with just a stop at a DC charger near the livestock auction, which also had a diner on site.

A guesstimated 85% of the land we farmed was connected with a guesstimated 3 miles of gravel roads. The rest of the land was within a guesstimated 9 mile drive. We had four communities within a 10 mile drive that could justify having some EV chargers based on the population in the area. Sure, we were a small family farm, but we did farm, and we could definitely have made it work using electric trucks that already are or will be available within the next year and a half. Even with the knock on range from towing, the only "regular outliers" that would've been an issue would have been trips to buy/sell with the livestock trailer.

Heck, even hauling grain with semis could have worked. Tesla EV semis claim to have a range of 500mi. The furthest elevator I can remember us doing business with was about 12 miles away. I'll round up to a 25 mile round trip, and google suggests it's a 36min round trip. I don't remember the elevator having expanded hours for harvest, but they probably did. If they were open for 14 hours, that's enough for 23 trips if all you're doing is driving, which is actually over 500 miles. But there's also a lot of downtime, if you don't mind hauling grain in wet, you're waiting for the combine, and a grain cart. Then you're probably waiting in line at the elevator, and then it takes time to actually empty your truck and get the paperwork. Oh, but now divide all of those miles you're demanding of a vehicle in half, because even the little guys like us still used two trucks to haul grain during harvest (fill one up while the other is being delivered, we seldom had two people driving trucks at once in situations like this, one guy had to stay in the combine). And then remember that I started this scenario with the elevator furthest from us, but we saved a lot of what we grew in our own bins for cattle feed.

No, we aren't the typical American farm (that is a difficult thing to define), but in our area we were typical for a family farm. No, we weren't going to go buy expensive Tesla semis, but they could do the job we were asking.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Another problem is the most adamant anti’s brag about “never seeing them.” Well how unintelligent does one have to be to argue definitively against something they’ve never even seen, much less operated? The anti’s seem to forget that this technology is new enough that all of us who own them have extensive ICE-vehicle experience. For the most part, when we say something, it comes from having knowledge of both sides of the argument, while they’re arguing on pure ignorance.

Huh? That seems like an odd flex...

Hell, here in SoCal, I see EVs all freakin' day. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Model 3.

 

[passedpawn]

There's a weird debate going on here - everybody is on the same side of the argument.

 

[RePete]

My mom is looking for a used Leaf/Volt/Bolt. Her daily max is about 25 miles but, 4 is more likely.

Sounds like a used Leaf would be perfect for her. Maybe they are harder to find now, and I haven’t looked lately, but I use to often see them relatively cheap.