Level 2, but not superchargers yet.
Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?
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Yet 
My cousin bought a Mercedes ev a few months ago. The dealer told him the adapter and app for Superchargers should be available by the end of the 1st quarter.
When the superchargers open up, that’s when we will know how wide the market for evs truly is. Everyone who isn’t adamantly politically opposed to them knows that Tesla superchargers are the true “gas stations” of EVs because they are the only reliable and prolific network.
As has been said here, a lot of people are waiting for two factors: rates to drop and superchargers to be universal. It’s game over then.
When the superchargers open up, that’s when we will know how wide the market for evs truly is. Everyone who isn’t adamantly politically opposed to them knows that Tesla superchargers are the true “gas stations” of EVs because they are the only reliable and prolific network.
As has been said here, a lot of people are waiting for two factors: rates to drop and superchargers to be universal. It’s game over then.
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q3-2023-ev-sales/
The issue with EVs is not demand. Demand is growing. The issue is that manufacturers all flooded the market with new models at the same time expecting EVEN higher growth, and that current supply exceeds current demand at financially sustainable prices.
As I've talked about, I come from the data storage industry. We see this in my industry. There is no such thing as oversupply; there is only oversupply at financially sustainable pricing. It's particularly a problem in the NAND side of the industry. NAND capital investments are planned based on a market projection 5+ years into the future, because building NAND fabs, retrofitting existing fabs with modern equipment, etc, takes a long time and costs billions of dollars. If you skate to the puck, it'll never be there when you get to your destination. You have to skate to where the puck will be. But all your competitors are doing the same thing... So every once in a while, you all skate to where the puck will be, all arrive at the same time, and then you're in oversupply and prices crater. (We're there right now and starting to come out of it.)
Every legacy automaker looked at the market and asked themselves "when do we need to enter the BEV market?" For every one of them, it was a multi-year process standing up R&D, engineering, development, validation/reliability testing, new supply chain partners, new production lines/techniques (and possibly plants), etc. And they all arrived at the puck at the same time.
That's not a demand problem.
The issue with EVs is not demand. Demand is growing. The issue is that manufacturers all flooded the market with new models at the same time expecting EVEN higher growth, and that current supply exceeds current demand at financially sustainable prices.
As I've talked about, I come from the data storage industry. We see this in my industry. There is no such thing as oversupply; there is only oversupply at financially sustainable pricing. It's particularly a problem in the NAND side of the industry. NAND capital investments are planned based on a market projection 5+ years into the future, because building NAND fabs, retrofitting existing fabs with modern equipment, etc, takes a long time and costs billions of dollars. If you skate to the puck, it'll never be there when you get to your destination. You have to skate to where the puck will be. But all your competitors are doing the same thing... So every once in a while, you all skate to where the puck will be, all arrive at the same time, and then you're in oversupply and prices crater. (We're there right now and starting to come out of it.)
Every legacy automaker looked at the market and asked themselves "when do we need to enter the BEV market?" For every one of them, it was a multi-year process standing up R&D, engineering, development, validation/reliability testing, new supply chain partners, new production lines/techniques (and possibly plants), etc. And they all arrived at the puck at the same time.
That's not a demand problem.
Well, there's some good news.
Of course, you may not see it as good news that Americans bought more EVs in 2023 than in any previous year. Eye of the beholder / one man's poison, I suppose.
Too, there's now a wider selection than ever - still not enough at the low/small end of the market, but more to come. I'm mildly excited by the upcoming Volvo EX30.
I just wish I was seeing all of this market flooding and price crashing where I live. I'd have bought three or four by now.
That sounds like the BEV of SWMBO's dreams. Might be worth waiting for.
Might be worth waiting for the second model year, after early bugs are killed.
IMHO that's true for me for any car, BEV or ICEV. (Granted, I typically buy used cars so I also have a few years of reputational reliability for each model too.)
For EVs, I don't want to buy one from any vendor that has been <5 years in the BEV game, though. I think there's a significant technology learning curve involved and I want to have some trust that they've weathered it successfully rather than take a chance with that significant of a purchase.
That’s why I haven’t bought a Rivian yet.
fwiw, I counted 45 BEVs on the ~25mi. round trip I just made to LHBS. 2/3 were Teslas.
Excellent points, of course.
But they sure do look sweet.
I wouldn't buy a Rivian until I'm sure that they're going to be around 5-10 years after I buy the vehicle, as that's how long I keep them. They're incinerating money at a rapid rate, but unlike Tesla don't have any real first-mover advantage that I can see.
Yeah the 5 year mark is what I am waiting for, to even consider one. I see a ton of them in NJ, mostly the SUV. And the Amazon and AT&T deals really help but that doesn’t mean they will stay in the consumer market.
The EVSE (/charger) that came with my EUV is branded with Chevrolet, but looks incredibly like a Webasto Go, I would really like to know if the adapters/pigtails are interchangeable between the two.
Sigh. The internet population doesn't seem to know what an OEM is any more, making this much harder to answer with search.
That connector sure does look the same.
edit: there is always a chance it's an off the shelf connector with different pinouts. For the NEMA plug, it would be easy to check pinout. If there are other connectors, I'd be wary.
edit2: here we go!
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/2...recall-aug-31-2023.51884/page-2?nested_view=1At least some of the GM chargers are OEM Webasto?
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I agree on both of your statements.
I found that Ford uses similar EVSE. There was an entry in some Mach-E forum that suggested Ford had them change something just enough that the parts were no longer interchangeable, but I have no idea how competent that poster was, or if that was a Ford specific alteration.
Yep, Webasto proudly states that they supply to a variety of EV makers.
https://www.volvobuses.com/en/news/2022/feb/three-electric-bus-orders-secured-in-finland.html
my small town in eastern Finland has switched to electric buses since the start of this year, as someone living on a busroute street, it's a lovely reduction in noise.
As far as problems with the use, especially in sub zero temperatures(which is nearly half the year here), so far my friends that use the bus daily to get to work haven't complained even once about missing or delayed buses yet.
my small town in eastern Finland has switched to electric buses since the start of this year, as someone living on a busroute street, it's a lovely reduction in noise.
As far as problems with the use, especially in sub zero temperatures(which is nearly half the year here), so far my friends that use the bus daily to get to work haven't complained even once about missing or delayed buses yet.
Electric cars in the news
That’s about the best mass media article I’ve read in years.
Brew on
Yeah, but there were big environmental problems with all those horses. Totally different.
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/
Some days on HBT people fail to define what a pastry stout is, other days you learn about pay toilets. Some days you learn about Lodo, other days you learn about horse manure crises.
$7500 price drop incoming soon!
Bilsch
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What the writers of this fairy tale hit piece didn't know about the Model S and X is the emergency manual release mechanism is built into the same door handle you pull to open it normally. The first 1/4" of the throw activates the electric release and then if you continue to pull, it tightens up a slack cable that then manually opens the door.
But hey.. A for effort dreaming up a super scary, your gonna die, EV story.
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Bilsch
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And yet none of that is true in my case or has happened in the 6 years I've owned my Tesla. Guess I'm just lucky.
Similar to “coulda, woulda, shoulda” anti’s are always saying, “you wait, you’ll see, it’s coming.”
Yawn.
Yawn.
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We only get 33-35 miles per charge in our Prius, (small battery bank) but only takes 5 hours vs overnight to full charge @ 120V/20a. 2017 vehicle, 65k miles, absolutely nothing but routine servicing. Fun to drive. Only problem is having to run in ICE mode often enough to require refueling with fresh petrol in the 9 gallon tank.
SWMBO’d wants to get 240V/50a service to her side of the garage + $500 for rapid charger, but I’m foot-dragging that one, unless I can get an EV for my side. Hard to justify the $$$ given our ages and demographic, though.
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SOLD! I want this car yesterday!
We bought our first Volvo in 1974, and have owned a least one in our ‘stable’ of cars ever since (currently one Volvo, one Mercedes and one Prius). Ima call the dealership tomorrow.
We bought our first Volvo in 1974, and have owned a least one in our ‘stable’ of cars ever since (currently one Volvo, one Mercedes and one Prius). Ima call the dealership tomorrow.
Bilsch
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My favorite is: Ford and GM are going to destroy Tesla.
Always makes me chuckle.
I tend to buy GM and I don't hear that one much. Like, maybe I could count the number of times on one hand. I guess I just don't hang out with that crowd or visit use the right Google or YouTube search terms.
I have noticed plenty of Tesla superfans with YouTube channels suggest, on a couple occasions, that Tesla has beat/destroyed/checkmated traditional auto companies.
The auto industry has clearly demonstrated that it can support several auto companies. The transition to EVs is going to be pretty disruptive, but I don't see a reason why Tesla, GM, Ford, and Stellantis-Chrystler can't all still exist in 15 years as established, major companies.
If I was forced to put money on one of those companies not being around in 15 years, I'd say Chrysler. They're making weird decisions in the EV transition. I don't hope for them to fail, they're just dragging their heels.
I'm really curious how Rivian will navigate their first few years. I think they had a bad recall last year, but their marketing team has given them sort of a Jeep feel without the inefficiency (not that I know their vehicles mi/kWh).
I have noticed plenty of Tesla superfans with YouTube channels suggest, on a couple occasions, that Tesla has beat/destroyed/checkmated traditional auto companies.
The auto industry has clearly demonstrated that it can support several auto companies. The transition to EVs is going to be pretty disruptive, but I don't see a reason why Tesla, GM, Ford, and Stellantis-Chrystler can't all still exist in 15 years as established, major companies.
If I was forced to put money on one of those companies not being around in 15 years, I'd say Chrysler. They're making weird decisions in the EV transition. I don't hope for them to fail, they're just dragging their heels.
I'm really curious how Rivian will navigate their first few years. I think they had a bad recall last year, but their marketing team has given them sort of a Jeep feel without the inefficiency (not that I know their vehicles mi/kWh).
Time will tell of course, but I wouldn't dismiss Stellantis quite yet. With the last merger there's old line money behind the company and a super broad international product set. That level of market coverage and diversity can allow segments to push the envelope and bring interesting products to market instead of just "me too" stuff...
Cheers!
Cheers!
GrogNerd
mean old man
how to fight an EV fire?
FIREFIGHTING FOAM
CLASS D EXTINGUISHER
PANCAKE NOZZLE
FIRE BLANKET
PIERCING NOZZLE
LET IT BURN
Strange that your example pic shows a car that is no longer on fire and didn’t even pop the tires. Sure seems to have been put out within a reasonable amount of time based on the pic YOU choose to “prove” your agenda.
I briefly considered adding a lelev 2 charger. The layout of the house/garage makes it pretty convenient to route the cable from the panel.
But I realized that there's functionally no difference to us between a 12 hour charge and 2.5 hour charge; it's just going to sit there overnight. So the charger would be more for "cool" factor than anything practical.
Add to that that the transformer feeding the house is tiny (10kVA? 15?). I'd likely need to open a permit and upgrade the service.
OTOH, having charging capability would likely help house price if selling. IMO people should be running 100A feeders* to garages, though, as the day of 60A charging circuits may end soonder than you think. The price difference between a #6 and a #3 installed is probably worth paying.
*I mean size the wires for future 100A.
That's how I ended up feeling about it when we had a Volt. Ninety-something percent of the time the car would charge up enough overnight to do what we needed the next day, I don't think we would have gained much by putting in a level 2 EVSE, and we might've undersized what we installed so we'd be updating it now anyway.
Now with a Bolt I definitely need a level 2 charger. I should really contact the electricians that Qmerit passed my information to.
I know I am an outlier when it comes to daily mileage, but I still highly recommend installing at least a 30amp outlet if you don’t want to buy an actual charger.
I absolutely need a charger/240 outlet. I average around 70-100 miles daily. If I tried to survive on 120 I’d be running a deficit fairly often. Since I DON’T want to use the gas car on the weekends while the Tesla “catches” up, I quickly jumped first to a 50amp outlet, then to a JuiceBox 40 charger.
I absolutely need a charger/240 outlet. I average around 70-100 miles daily. If I tried to survive on 120 I’d be running a deficit fairly often. Since I DON’T want to use the gas car on the weekends while the Tesla “catches” up, I quickly jumped first to a 50amp outlet, then to a JuiceBox 40 charger.
I technically wouldn't have to put in a level 2 charger in my garage. There's a DC Fast Charger in easy driving range that hardly gets used, and I rarely ask the vehicle in this role to go more than 100 miles in a day. But it does occasionally happen, and that DC charger is almost definitely more expensive than the electrons I put in at my garage.
That back right tire's not looking good.
As someone who's around lithium battery manufacturing I'd agree that lithium fires are hard to put out. There are Class D extinguishers and also compounds such as "Lith-X" but they tend to be in manufacturing environments and would be hard to apply to a battery in a car. The answer somewhat is to let it burn.
That said, these situations are like 1 in a zillion. I don't have the data but would sort of bet that it's the same or less frequent than a gas engined car catching fire. And it's not like that's exactly easy to put out either - how many car fires have you seen where the car can be salved? I've probably seen a dozen burnt cars in my life and zero of them made it.
We share the same views, I think, by the way.
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