Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

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Do you have an electric car or plan to get one?

  • Yes

  • No

  • I plan to

  • Over my dead body


Results are only viewable after voting.
The preview I see mentions Toyota, which, despite making the Prius, is very anti-BEV.

And, as Doug said, WSJ is a Murdoch owned media, which I always approach with suspicion.
 
Paywalled. :mad: Given the source, I suspect it might be influenced by oil industry interests. But, since I can't read it, I can't look for obvious bias in the article.

Brew on :mug:
I thought (derp) that was a open link. I'll check on that and repost if necessary. But why do you think an article on the WSJ is influenced by the oil industry? In my mind, they are the most unbiased, neutral news source (the editorial area, where this comes from, is conservative admittedly).
 
I mentioned "long-tail goblins" up above. There are also failures of products that aren't failures of the product themselves, per se, but are due to extremely strange combinations of circumstances.

I [previously] had a role as a field applications engineer across two different companies. Meaning that I worked with companies that were trying to use our products, and was responsible for helping figure out what was happening when they didn't work.

I worked with a company over a decade ago that was building touchscreen fare collection terminals for rail service. We were selling them the embedded PC that was the heart of the operation. They were having ALL sorts of issues with the reliability of the system. We went through tons of things looking at it... We looked at overheating (did this happen when hot). We looked at vibration (did they fail at the exact moment a train was passing, suggesting loose connections). We looked at a half dozen things. It ended up being that they were running long power cables from the power supply to the HDD that the system was operating on, such that they were losing voltage and the HDD which was expecting 5V was getting maybe 4.75V, just above brownout conditions. The failure resulted from any situation where the power demands increased and that voltage dropped too low. It was simple, but it was not easily understood.

I used to work at a company where we moved to a new facility and suddenly our entire phone system was unstable. Sometimes it would work. Sometimes it would go down for completely inexplicable reasons. Nobody could figure it out... Until they realized that a lot of people were going from the office side of the building to the lab side through the server room, and when those server room doors would slam behind them, the servers controlling the phones were malfunctioning due to the shock and vibration of the slamming doors. The solution? "Go around and use the two other doors 40 feet away to get from the office to the lab".

I have more recent examples, from where I work now, that I'm not going to go into in detail. But some of them have been things where we've gotten dozens of extremely competent and highly-paid engineers, sometimes spanning multiple continents and time zones, in order to chase ghosts about a problem that is going on, sometimes for months. In the two cases that spring to mind, when the actual answer was understood, it was a gigantic "a-ha" moment for everyone, and in hindsight it seemed obvious.

Battery performance of a BEV is impacted by temperature. But there's no reason a charging station shouldn't work. As the linked article says, it appears to be ONE charging vendor, and appears to only affect charging stations from ONE of their suppliers. It's someone that didn't catch something from an engineering perspective, but right now it's likely that nobody quite knows exactly where the problem is.

I can tell you from personal experience, there are a LOT of people working on this right now, all of them trying to figure out where it went wrong. Because although I have no experience in BEV charging, I have plenty of experience as an electrical engineer, with the fecal matter hitting the air circulation device with an angry customer breathing down your neck looking for answers.
“Battery performance of a BEV is impacted by temperature. But there's no reason a charging station shouldn't work.”

With lithium batteries, isn’t there an issue with them accepting a charge if the battery/ambient temperature is ~35F/2C? I know some installations use battery heaters to facilitate charging as well as discharge.
 
This has been all over for a week or so now. Toyota went all in on hydrogen cars, fuel cell and hydrogen combustion. Its not looking good for either version so they’re scrambling like mad to produce a viable EV. So far they’re failing. This crap is damage control.
 
I thought (derp) that was a open link. I'll check on that and repost if necessary. But why do you think an article on the WSJ is influenced by the oil industry? In my mind, they are the most unbiased, neutral news source (the editorial area, where this comes from, is conservative admittedly).
In my mind, they are the most unbiased, neutral news source (the editorial area, where this comes from, is conservative admittedly).”

Agree^^^

WSJ has a very conservative editorial point of view, and their financial coverage has a business-friendly tilt. But their ‘straight news’ reporting is right down the middle. For “news” it’s one of the best, non-partisan outlets anywhere in the world. Very well respected by their journalistic peers.
 
Paywalled. :mad: Given the source, I suspect it might be influenced by oil industry interests. But, since I can't read it, I can't look for obvious bias in the article.

Brew on :mug:
Sorry. I was sure (?) that would work. I printed the article to PDF, attached here. I won't ask your source of news, but you might consider the WSJ.
 

Attachments

  • Not So Fast on Electric Cars - WSJ.pdf
    505.2 KB · Views: 0
Sorry. I was sure (?) that would work. I printed the article to PDF, attached here. I won't ask your source of news, but you might consider the WSJ.
Summary: There are technical, logistical, and financial challenges to widespread adoption of BEVs, so we shouldn't even bother to think about trying to move away from oil.

Yes the challenges are real, but there were challenges to the early adoption of automobiles, airplanes, computers, ... Problems can be solved if the effort is put in.

Brew on :mug:
 
“Battery performance of a BEV is impacted by temperature. But there's no reason a charging station shouldn't work.”

With lithium batteries, isn’t there an issue with them accepting a charge if the battery/ambient temperature is ~35F/2C? I know some installations use battery heaters to facilitate charging as well as discharge.

If that's an issue, it's one that can be managed. I believe Tesla cars already have the capability to heat up the battery pack to optimum charging temp as you approach a Supercharger on their network, and that one of the biggest issues with the first Leaf models was a lack of battery temp control that has been added in later versions.

So it doesn't matter what the outside temp is--the batteries can be at a temp where they'll accept a charge.
 
Correct, Teslas pre-condition the battery automatically when routed to a supercharger.

I’m about to take a work roadtrip with mine now. I’ll have to supercharge once for sure, maybe twice.
 
If that's an issue, it's one that can be managed. I believe Tesla cars already have the capability to heat up the battery pack to optimum charging temp as you approach a Supercharger on their network, and that one of the biggest issues with the first Leaf models was a lack of battery temp control that has been added in later versions.

So it doesn't matter what the outside temp is--the batteries can be at a temp where they'll accept a charge.
That’s what I was thinking. We’ve got an RV on order that’s equipped with a 2x 100 amp/hr lithium battery bank for the coach. It’s got battery warmers that are meant to be manually turned on when ambient temperatures are below 40F. The tech manual states that, unlike lead acid or AGM battery banks, lithium resists fully charging when cold and won’t efficiently or fully discharge either.

The lithium bank is an expensive option, but coupled with a 3000W inverter it will handled some fairly large AC loads, at least for a little while.
 
The cybertruck is going to be a disaster with all of these nice, traditionally-bodied trucks coming online. Tesla in general, as much as I love mine, is going to screw themselves if they don't update all of the designs PRONTO.
 
Well, Blade Runner came out in 1982, so I'd say the CyberTruck has looked outdated since then...

I like the Ram concept. It's sleek. We'll see what the real one looks like, and how many of those features actually make it into the final model.

Some of the features RAM shows for that new EV truck are impressive, but (I agree) I doubt they make it to production. I especially like the "tunnel, that allows for full 16' lumber to stretch from the tailgate, through the cabin, and into the "frunk". I don't know when I'll be in the new truck market again, but if the EV is out, I'll definitely be checking it out. I do wonder how these EV trucks do with towing a trailer though.

I've got a loaded Ram 1500 Longhorn edition and it's freaking fantastic. Besides being a very capable truck (which I lightly use), the interior is extreme. Mine has powered stepsides, the gigundous panarama sunroof, color-matched bumpers, and the large 12" touchscreen. I've pulled some large trailers with it and you don't even know they are back there. I love it sooo much.

 
I do wonder how these EV trucks do with towing a trailer though.

One of the things that gets lost in EV towing discussions is that all vehicles suffer mileage/efficiency penalties while towing.

When I was still living at the home farm we used a livestock trailer often, and it tanked our mileage. But I look back on how an overwhelming majority of the trips we made with it were all within a few miles, and how we really didn't have to drive far to get to a livestock auction. Thinking about how a current EV truck would tackle that, it wouldn't take more than a few well placed fast charging stations to eliminate range anxiety.

But my story isn't everyone's story. So I'll just repeat these two things.

People need to look at what they ask their current vehicles to do.
And
Don't get so darn worked up over outliers.
 
Not too interested in a full-electric yet, but the upcoming dacia jogger phev is one of the cars we're looking at to replace our old citroen xsara picasso.

my bicycle is already battery assisted :D
 
People need to look at what they ask their current vehicles to do.
And
Don't get so darn worked up over outliers.

Yeah, I always wonder about that...

Q: "But what if I want to drive across Manitoba in February? What will happen to the range?!"
A: "Dude. Dude! You live in Houston. First, you're never going to effing Manitoba. Second, if you did, just rent a damn car."

For people who FREQUENTLY tow long-haul, i.e. two weekends a month towing a big boat to their lake house 250 miles away for long weekends in the summer? I get it... Probably not for you.

For people who buy a truck and tow once every 6 months, rarely over 100 miles, the range loss towing really isn't that big of a deal.

As I said to someone above who drives a big honkin' truck all over the place multiple days a week, and is worried about EV range as he'd have a lot of days that a full battery wouldn't cut it, I get it that an EV is a bad choice. But you know what else is a bad choice? A big honkin' truck. Especially one that costs a damn lot and you have to replace every 3 years because of all the miles you put on it. Get a cheap Prius or Civic for all that driving, save the wear and tear on your truck, and use it on the weekends when you need to do truck stuff. Your truck will last 10+ years and you will spend so much less in car payments and gas for the efficient car vs the truck that they'll pay for themselves.
 
For people who FREQUENTLY tow long-haul, i.e. two weekends a month towing a big boat to their lake house 250 miles away for long weekends in the summer? I get it... Probably not for you.

I agreed with most of what you said, but this part... shrug.

If one has money for a lake house they can visit a couple times a month, and a big boat, then they probably have money for a small boat to keep at one house and so no towing needs to happen.

Also, don't just write that kind of scenario off without looking for charging stations along one's familiar route.
 
I agreed with most of what you said, but this part... shrug.

If one has money for a lake house they can visit a couple times a month, and a big boat, then they probably have money for a small boat to keep at one house and so no towing needs to happen.

Also, don't just write that kind of scenario off without looking for charging stations along one's familiar route.

That may be true... I threw it out there as a rough example.

However, think of this one... I live in SoCal. One of the big places that people go is "The River", or essentially Laughlin NV. From my door Google says it's 286 miles.

I can tell you, if you look at most of the "river" people, that a lot of them spent a lot of money on a nice truck and a boat. Most likely do *NOT* have oodles of extra dollars laying around for that lake house, and don't have the scratch to pay to keep their boat at the river all the time. I'd venture that most of them have just enough money for a truck, a boat, a bikini, a straw hat, and a Yeti full of White Claw and Coors Light...

That's not to say that you're wrong, and that my example of a big boat and a lake house might be people that have access to a dock or have access to a marina to store their boat. Maybe I chose the wrong example. But I don't see a lot of those river people making two hour-long stops to charge an EV on their way to and fro. Heck, most of them think EVs are for hippies anyway lol.
 
Weight and distance aside, I bet I tow a LOT more often than most of the 1/4 ton trucks driving around my way. With my Tesla, and most likely the previous 4 cars/suvs I’ve owned as well.
 
my dad, who's been caravaning to france for roughly 40 years now, with a 1500 kg empty caravan, doing roughly 8000 km each year, has never driven a truck in his life outside of maybe something borrowed for a day, mostly it's been toyota verso diesels the last 20 years, but before it was anything from a corolla to a few midsized honda's.

I've pulled boat trailers with decent sized fishing boats with a kia sorento just fine, if your boat is so big that you can't pull it with a regular car, you're rich enough to afford a docking fee where you want it most of the year.
 
I posted this on another forum recently. It’s a breakdown of my very nearly one year of Tesla driving electricity usage. I believe I posted it two weeks before the actual one year anniversary.

Airborneguy;64724558 said:
I tried to post an actual picture of my trips screen but it's too large.

Last Trip: 13 miles, 294 wh/mi
I was having some fun. ;)

Since last charge: 102 miles, 274 wh/m
I told you guys I drive a lot, that's my normal daily routine.

Total: 23,756 @ 285 wh/mi @ 6778 kWh

That's 23,756 miles in 11 months for all those "they're good around town cars, but that's it." lol

6778 kwh at my rate has cost me $949.

In my previous car, at an average 27mpg and of $3.00 gas, I'd have spent $2640. I haven't seen $3.00 gas in a long time. It was $3.29 this morning when I passed the gas station, and far above that for most of the time I've owned this car.

There's your real world experience line by line. The haters are blindly guessing. Always remember that.
 
I posted this on another forum recently. It’s a breakdown of my very nearly one year of Tesla driving electricity usage. I believe I posted it two weeks before the actual one year anniversary.
Do electric vehicles cost more than ICE vehicles? If so, should that be included in a discussion about electric vs ICE cost of ownership? (BTW, I'm not a hater - I see a Tesla in my future, and that's how I voted in this pole way back)
 
Yesterday I had to fuel up our 24~28 mpg (city) Volvo. Mid-grade had jumped $.20/gal in one week from $3.59 to $3.79 for mid-grade octane. Our Prius is about to start getting more "exercise." I also fueled up our diesel RV before winterizing and storage. Last week diesel had dropped to $4.19/gal at one local station, which is the cheapest I've seen in a looong time. Yesterday it had jumped to $4.69 at the same station. $0.50 in one week!

I did find a station that still had a lower price at $4.37/gal, but the way Dino Juice is jumping, it won't be there for long. Still better than the nearly $6 per I was paying in some places last summer. C'mon Mercedes. Start offering your electric Sprinter conversion cut-away chassis to RV up-fitters. The market is ripe!
 
Do electric vehicles cost more than ICE vehicles? If so, should that be included in a discussion about electric vs ICE cost of ownership? (BTW, I'm not a hater - I see a Tesla in my future, and that's how I voted in this pole way back)
Yes, but not as much as people tend to think, and incentives can actually bring them lower than comparable vehicles.

I’m no expert on EV prices, so I’ll stick to my situation.

My Model 3 Performance was bought used (I didn’t want to wait). I was given a massive trade in check from a lease, but that’s irrelevant to your question.

An equivalent BMW (the fairest comparison in function and form) would have been around $52,000 compared to the $57,000 I paid for the Tesla. But here’s the thing: NJ doesn’t charge sales tax on EVs, so even though I didn’t qualify for any rebates, I paid $57,075 total ($75 for registration) while the BMW would have cost me $3700 or so in taxes, making the total cost almost the same.

I drive enough to justify the initial outlay, 25,000+ miles annually. Haters love to call them “around town” cars but you only really see the benefit if you use them for more than that.
 
I did find a station that still had a lower price at $4.37/gal, but the way Dino Juice is jumping, it won't be there for long. Still better than the nearly $6 per I was paying in some places last summer. C'mon Mercedes. Start offering your electric Sprinter conversion cut-away chassis to RV up-fitters. The market is ripe!

Dino Juice is expensive here in CA. But although it's been trending down of late, the cost of electrons is going WAY up.

I drive enough to justify the initial outlay, 25,000+ miles annually. Haters love to call them “around town” cars but you only really see the benefit if you use them for more than that.

Yep. As stated previously, I'm locked into my ICEV pretty much until at least the first child goes to college (3 1/2 years from now). It's a Ford Flex, so it's a 7-passenger vehicle with a lot of room, which I'll need until then. There aren't a lot of (any?) EV equivalents that are remotely in the same vehicle price point and class. And further, it's fully paid off, so there's no point in replacing it before then. After all, it's only got 80K miles.

The question is what to do then? I can legitimately downsize at that point, but if I'm still driving the number of miles I do now (i.e. regular WFH with 1-2 days in the office per week, even fewer kid-related dropoffs/pickups as my oldest is out of the house, etc), if used low-mileage BEVs are not near cost parity with a good used low-mileage ICEV, do I drive enough to save with BEV? I don't know.

But, I've got 3.5+ years to figure it out, so I guess I'll wait and see.
 
I have been thinking about an electric vehicle. I saw the Silverado has an electric version that I thought looked pretty good. I have to do a lot more research and to be honest, they need to bring the prices down. The link to the Ram Electric is pretty cool. I really like the Dodge Ram, but I have never owned a Dodge before and have read they have some reliability issues. But, as of now, the Ram gas truck is pretty sweet looking. So, the answer to the question is, I am considering it, but they need to get the prices down and I need to figure out how I can get a charging station in my little Garage. LOL.
 
I need to figure out how I can get a charging station in my little Garage. LOL.

I know from the time that I lived in the Bay Area that SSF is a lot more space-constrained than even where I live now in Orange County. And that MANY of the people in my neighborhood (including me) use the garage for storage more than for cars. I use it for both, but I can't fit an EV in the garage because my topless Jeep is in there lol.

I will say that in my neighborhood, I see a LOT of people who park an EV in their driveways and run the cord under their garage door. So if you can get the charging station in your garage, you may still be able to charge your EV if you can't fit it in the garage.

That said, I'm not sure how the crime / vandalism / etc situation is in SSF... People in my neighborhood aren't going to F with someone charging their EV in the driveway, but it's a pretty sleepy neighborhood. So maybe that's a factor up there.
 
I saw this on another forum and I’m torn. I think it’s great but $125k for the camper and at least $75k for the tow vehicle? That’s a lot of money for “camping”.
I have a Toyota Sequoia that serves as a family adventure rig. It’s a gas hog but only gets driven a few times a month. I commute in a Subaru. One can easily pick up a used 23’ camper for less than 20k. For our family it doesn’t pencil out. Especially since we camp 3-4 times per year.
I’d rather purchase a plug in hybrid or electric commuter and keep my gas hog for adventure stuff.

Ps- I read somewhere that the F150 lightning is jumping in price. I like that thing but commuting in a full size pickup, electric or gas, does t make sense for my situation.
 
I heard something about a massive recall of Rivians. I hope that it isn't as big of a deal as it appeared at first. They do look really nice!
 
I have been thinking about an electric vehicle. I saw the Silverado has an electric version that I thought looked pretty good. I have to do a lot more research and to be honest, they need to bring the prices down. The link to the Ram Electric is pretty cool. I really like the Dodge Ram, but I have never owned a Dodge before and have read they have some reliability issues. But, as of now, the Ram gas truck is pretty sweet looking. So, the answer to the question is, I am considering it, but they need to get the prices down and I need to figure out how I can get a charging station in my little Garage. LOL.
It's not a Dodge Ram. Dodge does not make trucks anymore. The brand is Ram. And yes, the Ram 1500 is a sweet truck, especially the Longhorn edition ;)
 
RAM is made by Dodge. They're still the same company; the only difference is that Dodge cars, SUVs, and minivans are under Dodge branding, and their pickups are labeled as the RAM brand...

Cheers!
 
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