Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[Kent88]

Demand for non-Tesla vehicles is terrible.

Around my area most Bolts aren't even making it to the lots before they sell. My wife and I finally got to test drive and EUV a couple weeks ago (we had been trying for about a year), and the dealership was due to get a few more by now. A few days later the salesman called to say one was spoken for and I told him that if the others made it to the lot to call me. Haven't heard from him.

 

[whoaru99]

I saw that this weekend. I guess it's a funny story about the government workers, but it really isn't anything a lot of EV drivers don't already know before they buy.

I don't find it funny at all that she had an "advance team" block out charging spot just for her in the dog and pony show.

EV drivers are not the target audience of that story, to your point they already know. The target audience is those on the fence and without that incident all it would have been is sunshine and roses.

Good on whoever called the cops and exposed the shenanigans/hypocrisy.

 

[whoaru99]

Far as the poll itself no current plans to get one.

Rented at Tesla 3 for a few days. It was a blast to drive. Zero complaints about the car itself and was a very urban area so no problem finding chargers from small level 2 up to 250kW superchargers.

All that said, just last Saturday I bought an ICE rig, a 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk.

 

[Kent88]

I don't find it funny at all that she had an "advance team" block out charging spot

I don't find it very amusing myself. I assume that anti-EV folk who hear about it got a big chuckle, and it was their joke of the moment.

EV drivers are not the target audience of that story, to your point they already know. The target audience is those on the fence

I doubt that. Unfortunately, and for reasons I don't understand, ICE vs EV is a polarizing subject. I expect the type of people attending the kinds of events on such a tour are pro-EV, they're just on the fence about when to actually make the switch from an ICE to an EV.

Far as the poll itself no current plans to get one.

All that said, just last Saturday I bought an ICE rig, a 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk.

I married into a Chrysler/Ram/Jeep family and we're pretty disappointed with what they're offering for EVs. The PHEV Jeeps have incredibly low electric range and are ridiculously expensive. I don't know if Jeep has a true BEV on the market at all. But we have a Volt and are seriously considering a Bolt EUV.

 

[whoaru99]

I'd think EV folks would be even more bothered by it considering the comments I see about ICE blocking spots, let alone to support a political agenda. But, I suppose it's a pass on that front since it's an EV agenda anyway.

 

[Kent88]

Fortunately, I have yet to get to a charging station and find it ICE'd, so I'm not one to ask about that. I can understand that it would be frustrating, though.

As for "political agendas", we don't discuss those here.

 

[whoaru99]

Yup, no plan to go there other than mentioning what it is/was.

 

[Airborneguy]

I've encountered ICE'ings here and there. The closest I have ever come to a total ICE'ing was on my first trip to Florida when at a supercharger on hotel grounds in NC there was only one open spot. The rest were all blocked, and of course showing as available according to Tesla, which could have created a nightmare scenario for me.

I see these types as the scum of the earth. I seriously considered doing something stupid. But with the open spot I did what I had to do and went on my way.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Demand for non-Tesla vehicles is terrible.

The big guys screwed up.

Around my area most Bolts aren't even making it to the lots before they sell.

One of the ways I think a lot of them screwed up is prioritizing EV trucks. Take the vehicle with the most weight, requiring the biggest battery to support the range, a vehicle that is often asked to tow heavy loads, targeted at likely the most non-EV-trusting buying segment. And then make them super-expensive (b/c of that big battery). What could go wrong?

 

[Kent88]

Aren't a lot of people used to trucks being expensive?

I don't think making EV trucks was a bad idea. Truck drivers are the drivers that need to be convinced that EVs are good vehicles. EV trucks are good. Take that group head-on and show them that EVs are good vehicles.

Edit: I should say, there are a lot of truck drivers who need to be convinced that EVs are good vehicles. Some already know. Some who are fervently anti-EV don't drive trucks.

 

[whoaru99]

Aren't a lot of people used to trucks being expensive?

Yes.

That said, the lowest priced ICE Ford F150 4wd appears to list around 40k. The lowest priced Ford F150 EV appears to list around 50k. The F150 EV the closest dealer to me shows on their website is a Platinum model at about 86k, Ford lists Platinum ~91k.

Of course, it would need a deeper dive into all the feature differences to get a better apples to apples price comparison.

 

[Kent88]

Yeah, there's a lot more to that story than just lowest price ICE vs lowest price EV.

 

[whoaru99]

I think the high level point is despite that all vehicles are expensive these days, EV tend to be more expensive up front and for lots of people price is a big factor. To get them to buy in they have to be on board with EV in general or don't mind paying a premium if you will, to get the newest thing.

 

[Airborneguy]

The breakout of EVs tracks with most other major technological debuts. There’s the early adopters, fence sitters, haters and patently stupid. I add the latter due to the strong modern tendency to make everything political.

As an early-ish adopter, I’ve seen a heck ton of politically focused insanity around EVs. I’ve been called every name in the book by people who only know one thing about me: I speak positively about my ev experience. Kent, delete if necessary (I’ll keep it brief and to the point): I’ve pretty much disavowed myself from interest in politics because of this issue. It’s revealed a depth of stupidity amongst the general public that I previously refused to admit exists.

 

[whoaru99]

I'd consider myself a fence sitter. Given the relatively small percentage of EV on the road I think there is still a lot to learn, particularly down the road a ways.

 

[Kent88]

There's already a lot of good information out there, and some testimonials on this thread. EVs are good vehicles.

You just got a new vehicle, though, so you probably won't be in the market for another for a while.

 

[whoaru99]

My concern is not today, so to speak. It's what happens in/to an aging fleet. A low single digit population of vehicles today is not much more than a honeymoon period in that regard.

So, I sit on the fence.

 

[Airborneguy]

I waited 4 years, with 2 ICE purchases in between, before making the jump after my first experience with my friend's Tesla. Though we still have one of the other cars, and it is paid off, I regret waiting so long.

The key is to honestly analyze your driving habits and determine what aspects you want to prioritize. I've heard from tons of people who simply refuse to accept that tailoring their purchase towards relatively rare road trips (3-4 per year) is not the smartest way choice.

The convenience factor is through the roof. I drive FAR MORE annually and per diem than data says most Americans do. I NEVER use public charging except on road trips... 3-4 times per year.

But most conversations devolve into insults and political platitudes. I've come to terms with what people instantly determine about me based on my car. Is what it is. Thank them for paying my road taxes and move on.

 

[whoaru99]

Enjoy the gas tax edge now because that's not going to hold up over time. It will be going to miles driven and probably through telematics.

 

[Kent88]

The key is to honestly analyze your driving habits and determine what aspects you want to prioritize. I've heard from tons of people who simply refuse to accept that tailoring their purchase towards relatively rare road trips (3-4 per year) is not the smartest way choice.

The convenience factor is through the roof. I drive FAR MORE annually and per diem than data says most Americans do. I NEVER use public charging except on road trips... 3-4 times per year.

It would not be enough to like this post.

 

[Kent88]

Enjoy the gas tax edge now because that's not going to hold up over time.

You clearly don't have to pay tabs on an EV in my state.

It will be going to miles driven and probably through telematics.

I would be completely shocked if that turned out to be the solution.

 

[Airborneguy]

Enjoy the gas tax edge now because that's not going to hold up over time. It will be going to miles driven and probably through telematics.

Of course it us, but those who adamantly brag about sticking with gas - and oddly insist on putting down those of us who’ve switched- never got that break did they?

On top of the insanely cheap overall cost to fuel.

 

[whoaru99]

You clearly don't have to pay tabs on an EV in my state.




I would be completely shocked if that turned out to be the solution.

No, I have pay for tabs on my ICE vehicles in my state. Here I think EVs are +$75 to the normal registration cost. I thnk that works out to state tax on roughly 250 gal of gas.

Michigan Plans to Start Taxing Cars Based on Distances Driven

With electric vehicles on the rise, many states are wondering how they will be able to tax drivers without the use of gasoline.
Well, Michigan has decided to experiment with a new tactic in which it uses GPS devices in the cars of its residents to track a driver’s mileage and tax individuals accordingly.

I think there are already other states with some sort of mileage-based assessment.

 

[whoaru99]

Of course it us, but those who adamantly brag about sticking with gas - and oddly insist on putting down those of us who’ve switched- never got that break did they?

I don't care if you drive a horse and buggy, if that's specifically directed at me. Just don't hold up the traffic.

 

[Kent88]

I think there are already other states with some sort of mileage-based assessment.

I said I would be shocked if that ended up being the solution. I'm somewhere between surprised and shocked learning that some states are going to try it.

But getting into the weeds on tax policy isn't for a thread outside of the Debate section.

 

[whoaru99]

No plans to debate it. It's an example of what is (or what might be).

 

[Kent88]

I was explaining why I wasn't going to get further into discussion about tax.

 

[Bilsch]

I've encountered ICE'ings here and there. The closest I have ever come to a total ICE'ing was on my first trip to Florida when at a supercharger on hotel grounds in NC there was only one open spot. The rest were all blocked, and of course showing as available according to Tesla, which could have created a nightmare scenario for me.

In six years of driving a Tesla I've never personally seen ICE'ing and never a completely full supercharger lot either. Maybe I'm lucky or maybe most of the rumors are just more FUD to scare people from transitioning.

On another topic, it was kind of a milestone day here as I had to do the very first maintenance on the 2nd Tesla I bought 3 years ago, a new set of tires. The other one it's been 6 years and it's been in the shop also only once for tires. It's mind boggling to think of how many visits to the oil change place or dealer for other repairs I would have had to do if they were ICE instead of EV.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Aren't a lot of people used to trucks being expensive?

I don't think making EV trucks was a bad idea. Truck drivers are the drivers that need to be convinced that EVs are good vehicles. EV trucks are good. Take that group head-on and show them that EVs are good vehicles.

Edit: I should say, there are a lot of truck drivers who need to be convinced that EVs are good vehicles. Some already know. Some who are fervently anti-EV don't drive trucks.

Yes, trucks can be crazy expensive.

IMHO one of the issues with trucks is that we often talk about prying into the adoption curve in 2-car families where a family will have one ICEV as the "exception" vehicle and then have a BEV that handles more day-to-day. The problem is that usually a big crew cab truck is going to be that "exception" vehicle.

Want to go to the grocery store? Run errands? Drop the kids at school? Hop in the BEV.

Want to go on a road trip? Maybe towing your boat to your lake house? Well, that's what the truck is for!

But now the truck is a BEV, which means you have to figure out charging, and if you're actually towing, have to worry about the range reductions towing with a battery vehicle.

I know a guy from another board who is an electrical engineer working for Dell. He's not anti-EV. He's a smart dude and isn't going to fall victim to the fear-based arguments against EVs. But he's not going to jump on the EV truck bandwagon because his truck is used to tow a on a regular basis, and that's the one area that EV trucks haven't yet proven that they're ready. They can tow heavy loads because of the torque, but how badly it's going to affect their range means you could spend a LOT more time charging than filling a gas tank while towing.

 

[Bilsch]

Being a smart guy has he factored in the vast difference in price between ICE and EV fueling? Time is money and if you have to spend more hours at work to pay the difference are you really any time ahead? I would rather spend that extra time at the charger maybe also having something to eat, taking a little walk, surfing the web etc. then I would slaving at the grindstone.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Being a smart guy has he factored in the vast difference in price between ICE and EV fueling? Time is money and if you have to spend more hours at work to pay the difference are you really any time ahead? I would rather spend that extra time at the charger maybe also having something to eat, taking a little walk, surfing the web etc. then I would slaving at the grindstone.

Pretty sure he's mostly price insensitive on that angle. And he's salaried, so it's not like he's going to get any more pay working longer hours.

I'd wager that if you asked him what he values more right now, it's time rather than money--and time spent charging on his way to/from a campground or while trailering his boat is time he would rather spend at his destination.

 

[Airborneguy]

If I towed heavy loads regularly, and for distance, I'd not choose an EV. Their towing range issues will likely take some time to resolve.

BUT... I towed my jetski on a regular basis far easier with my Model 3 than my Outback. I barely felt it. The toughest part was resisting the urge to drive faster than is safe while towing.

 

[Kent88]

What kinda bladder and sphincter control y'all have? I need to get out every few hours during a road trip to get rid of some material, maybe get some food/beverage, stretch, walk around, and for the last several years attend to the children.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

What kinda bladder and sphincter control y'all have? I need to get out every few hours during a road trip to get rid of some material, maybe get some food/beverage, stretch, walk around, and for the last several years attend to the children.

I haven't soiled myself in a vehicle since I was potty-trained as a toddler, thankyouverymuch.

Generally when on a long road trip I try to time bio / meal breaks for fuel breaks, which is typically about every 4 hours or so. But usually that means I'm stopped JUST long enough for the bio break and will eat whatever meal we get in the car while driving. I don't plan for 20-30 minute breaks on a typical road trip.

For me it's usually "get to the destination as quickly as possible", because it's either a long road trip that I'm doing in one day and want to get to the end to get in a bed, or because it's a trip that I'm trying to get to the destination as early as possible because I have plans to actually make use of the day. I.e. if I'm trying to go someplace like Paso Robles (~4 hours) or Napa (~6 hours), the goal would be to get on the road early enough that I can actually get to wineries in the afternoon before they all close and then have time for a nice dinner.

I expect that as I get older, I'll have more of a desire to take longer breaks on road trips. I.e. actually sit down to eat food, maybe walk around, etc. And I know if I had an EV, I'd have to make that change anyway. I take road trips infrequently enough that it's not a barrier to me buying an EV. For me the barrier right now is that I'm simply not in the market for a vehicle at this time. When I am (3+ years from now), I may choose EV.

If I towed heavy loads regularly, and for distance, I'd not choose an EV. Their towing range issues will likely take some time to resolve.

Yeah, and that's one reason that I think so many of these automakers prioritizing EV trucks is a little bit unwise. That guy I mentioned in Texas actually would prefer an SUV to a truck, but SUVs don't have the towing capacity he needs for his boat. Apparently the F-150 Lightning can have <100 mi of range when towing a heavy load, and he does that often enough that it would be a non-starter for him. Given that for many families the truck becomes their "exception" vehicle, having a vehicle that can't do everything you expect from an exception vehicle kinda screws the whole concept.

He'd be far more likely to buy an EV as one of his family's other vehicles than to consider an EV truck.

 

[Airborneguy]

What automakers need to impress upon people is that daily driving is how they should make their primary vehicle choice. It’s absurd to have to constantly argue with people who admit 99% of their driving fits an ev - it would even IMPROVE their overall driving experience - yet because they can’t focus on anything besides that annual trip to grandma’s, they’re screwing themselves over.

 

[whoaru99]

Isn't it somewhat hypocritical to bring up being harrassed/labeled/slandered for your EV choices, yet effectually doing the same on others who, for whatever reason, don't see or do as you do?

 

[Airborneguy]

Nah, I’m long past being the better man.

It’s hypocritical to complain about it then do the same. Acknowledging it and admitting you’re fed up is not hypocritical.

Was it my last comment above? Pretty damned pedestrian if you ask me. Similar to what happens on facebook:

Them: “You’re a “wimp” (word changed for HBT) for driving an EV!”

Me: “Sorry pal that you can’t properly assess your driving habits.”

Them: “Nice, straight to name calling!”

 

[Kent88]

Them: “You’re a “wimp” (word changed for HBT) for driving an EV!”

I've experienced this as well and it's somewhere between comical and annoying.

You're appealing to my toxic masculinity? Dude, I've used tractors, I've pulled livestock trailers with trucks, I grew up on a farm, I've milked cows, pulled butcher ready steers around by a halter & lead rope, etc (etc, etc). I've done enough masculine things in my life to not give a... hoot... whether you think I'm masculine.

 

[Bilsch]

Pretty sure he's mostly price insensitive on that angle. And he's salaried, so it's not like he's going to get any more pay working longer hours.

I'd wager that if you asked him what he values more right now, it's time rather than money--and time spent charging on his way to/from a campground or while trailering his boat is time he would rather spend at his destination.

If that is the case your friend is mostly interested in time savings then he indeed is not taking all the proper factors into account. Since 95% or more of charging is done at home and said charging takes 30 seconds or less to plug/unplug in the car, added up he is without a doubt wasting more time in a year standing by his car watching the gas pump then he ever will waiting for a charge.

Bigoil has done a great job muddying the waters where EV is concerned. One has to give them credit for doing remarkably well swaying the mathematically impaired and or those who cant be bothered with the science. But in your friends case, the smart dude that considers all the evidence, sadly he is overlooking some key facts that are skewing his calculations.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

What automakers need to impress upon people is that daily driving is how they should make their primary vehicle choice. It’s absurd to have to constantly argue with people who admit 99% of their driving fits an ev - it would even IMPROVE their overall driving experience - yet because they can’t focus on anything besides that annual trip to grandma’s, they’re screwing themselves over.

Good luck with that. Giant trucks and SUVs are the most profitable vehicles in their lineups. And a lot of the purchasers of those vehicles actually "need" that size & capability for daily driving rarely. They've been marketing those vehicles since long before EVs arrived on the scene.

If people were buying vehicles based on their daily driving rather than the exception, Ford would still sell sedans