Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[Bilsch]

Now after nearly 3 years of driving a PHEV I don’t think we’ll buy another ICE. The ‘normal’ choice of “which car shall we take” now always defaults to the Prius, and leads to disagreements when we each have separate destinations.

Before, we were “EV curious”. Now we’re converts.

When we bought our first it seemed like the best idea to keep one gas car because of early adopter fears, range anxiety etc. Then it became arguments all the time about who got stuck with the gas car. Finally we just got rid of the ICE and now are a 2 EV household. Can't imagine ever going back.

 

[Rodent]

took a step yesterday towards our eventual EV future and spent a couple hours with a solar install tech sizing out a new system. given a couple options I want to utilize, it's likely not going to be the least expensive system possible - but I'm OK with that as I'm not looking to install a Yugo (or a Ferrari for that matter)

charging an EV will definitely help reduce the ROI time, but that's a future objective that falls later on in the priorities list

Officially taking the plunge into solar with a ~13kW system here at the Ratt Shakk. Engineering drawings complete, permit requests submitted, and Net Metering with the local electric utility applied for and under review. I didn't opt for a battery at this time, and will give it a couple years for the new battery tech to become available at the residential consumer level.

While not specifically an EV purchase, it's a step closer to taking the plunge into a used EV in 2-3 years once we have a couple debts paid off. Charging by solar make an even better argument for EVs in the larger perspective.

Nice to have these kind of options available and doable while still 5-10 years away from a possible early retirement. the benefit of significantly lower costs to commute in retirement is quite appealing

 

[day_trippr]

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/09/01/tesla-discounts-model-s-by-30000-and-model-x-by-41000/

 

[sibelman]

Substantial 5-digit price drops to snag 4-digit tax incentives? Something important is missing from that story.

 

[Airborneguy]

New models coming, it has to be. The S is tempting as hell, but I’ll take a bath on my 3. I’ve been dumping miles onto it like there’s no tomorrow, the plan was to keep it till it dies. It’s nearly paid off too.

 

[Kent88]

Substantial 5-digit price drops to snag 4-digit tax incentives? Something important is missing from that story.

Markup

 

[Rodrigue Planck]

 

[Kent88]

I saw that this weekend. I guess it's a funny story about the government workers, but it really isn't anything a lot of EV drivers don't already know before they buy. The EV charging network needs to get better. The great thing is that it is getting better. And there are places in the US where it is already adequate. It's decent enough in my area, and my regular "road trip" routes, that I would be comfortable trading my Volt for a Bolt tomorrow if I had the opportunity.

 

[Rodrigue Planck]

Rose tinted glasses.

 

[Kent88]

 

[Rodent]

For those who wish to continue pushing a debate - why? Clearly many don't want an EV for whatever their personal reasons are, ok fine. Clearly there are others who do for whatever their reasons are, also ok fine.

Maybe it's come time to start an anti-EV thread in the proper forum and bring your angst there?

Reminds me of the debates I used to hear about owning mobile phones, and flying on an airplane in anything but your very best attire, or going to a fancy restaurant in jeans, or owning a computer. and if you want to go back even further ... debates on electrifying your house, or having running water, of having a toilet vs outhouse, or .....

 

[mac_1103]

Reminds me of the debates I used to hear about owning mobile phones, and flying on an airplane in anything but your very best attire, or going to a fancy restaurant in jeans, or owning a computer. and if you want to go back even further ... debates on electrifying your house, or having running water, of having a toilet vs outhouse, or .....

TBH, I'm still not sold on this whole "automobile" idea at all. Just what exactly is the problem with streets filled with horse manure anyway? Now get the hell off my lawn, dammit!

 

[Bilsch]

If you buy the wrong brand of car with short range and a poor charging network then you will probably have a problem. I have zero issues road tripping in my Tesla because superchargers are everywhere, the range is long, it charges fast and I even get the electricity for free.

The moral of this story is all electric vehicles are not created equal and therefore you should choose wisely.

 

[day_trippr]

For those who wish to continue pushing a debate - why?

Was this supposed to simply be a sales pitch thread then?

Cheers!

 

[Kent88]

Was this supposed to simply be a sales pitch thread then?

Cheers!

 

[doug293cz]

Was this supposed to simply be a sales pitch thread then?

Cheers!

You can debate the pros and cons of EVs, but you cannot progress into political commentary. The nature of this discussion makes avoiding getting political a challenge, but that's what moderators are for (but the mods would appreciate you moderating yourselves.)

doug293cz
HBT Moderator

 

[A.Homebrewer]

No electric car for me. I live in Montana, a very large state with a very small population. Going anywhere involves a relatively long drive. We regularly travel between our farm and our city house, 250 miles one way. Some electrics have that much range, but not at the 75-80 mph cruising speeds common here.

When I fully retire, and we start spending most of our time in the city, an electric vehicle could be a possibility. We only drive 100 miles, or so, a week when we’re there. But, we would still need a conventional vehicle for travel outside the city, so the electric would be more of a “hey look at me” thing than a truly viable alternative.

EVs are definitely urban commuter cars. I live in rural Iowa. I want a car that can travel reasonable distances (400+ miles) when it is -10to -20°F and refill in under 10 minutes.

 

[Kent88]

You made a very similar statement in December. I remember because I have family in Iowa and I broke down how a trip across Iowa on 9 might look.

I'm pretty familiar with parts of northern Iowa.

The vehicle I reference most for hypothetical road trips is the Chevrolet Bolt, which has advertised somewhere around 250miles on a full charge, and is one of the more affordable new EVs.

If one wanted to take a drive across northern Iowa, roughly following 9, starting from Lansing and going west, if I'm not mistaken you'd encounter public charging in Decorah, and then you'd be able to choose from options in Mason City and maybe Clear Lake, then Estherville, then Rock Rapids, and from there you're practically in Dakota and Sioux Falls.

Breaking it down, plugging in generic towns into Google:
Lansing to Decorah: 35miles
Decorah to Clear Lake: 92miles
Mason City (which looks like the more likely stop than Clear Lake, it's closer to Decorah) to Estherville: 100 miles
Estherville to Rock Rapids: 70 miles
Rock Rapids to Sioux Falls: 32 miles

Each of those chunks is more than manageable for a Bolt. But your next argument would be that winter temperatures would make that impossible. So at some point in March or April into October or November, I don't think you can contest that it would be manageable.

Public fast chargers in/near Riceville, Buffalo Center, and Spirit Lake would, IMHO, make range anxiety on such a trip a non-factor for all but the coldest of cold snaps. Even without them, I would be pretty confident that a Bolt could make this trip through a typical northern Iowa winter day.

About the only thing you added was that you need to refill/recharge in under 10min and you need a range of 400 miles. 400 miles from a recharge, at an average speed of 59mph that takes over 6h45min to deplete. I don't know about anyone else, but I usually have to get out and stretch, grab something to eat, put some new fluid in and leave some old fluid behind more often than that.

I think I also since discovered more charging stations along 9, some of them DC fast chargers.

 

[sibelman]

When we bought a 2012 Leaf, we knew it wasn't a road trip car, and that we'd have to rent for road trips.

Our 2018 Bolt is good for about the longest drive we care to make in a day, but we need at least Level 2 charging for successive road days, so still some limits.

400 miles in cold weather probably exceeds any production EV's capability.

And then there's the purchase price, a show stopper for many.

Clearly, one must value something about EVs in exchange for these, er, limitations. Those who need a road trip vehicle and who don't strongly value the reduced carbon footprint will likely stick with ICE vehicles, even though EVs are quiet, quick, and unspeakably cool.

 

[Kent88]

400 miles in cold weather probably exceeds any production EV's capability.

For now. And -20°F is not typical for a winter day in Iowa. There are cold snaps where it gets that low, but I don't believe it's the norm. I have family in northern Iowa, and I live it a colder part of the Midwest. -20°F basically doesn't happen at all for three quarters of the year, April through November. Even December -March it's still uncommon enough that it's usually thought of as a cold snap, and it's usually overnight. I don't think I have ever noticed a forecast in this part of the world with -20°F (or colder) listed as the day's high temperature.

It can get darn cold here. Cold enough to chase people like betarhoalphadelta. Last new years we had a really bad cold snap. But I think people who have lived here a while usually try not to road trip that much in winter, with the obvious exception of late December.

Road tripping at -20°F is, IMHO, getting into outlier territory.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

For now. And -20°F is not typical for a winter day in Iowa. There are cold snaps where it gets that low, but I don't believe it's the norm. I have family in northern Iowa, and I live it a colder part of the Midwest. -20°F basically doesn't happen at all for three quarters of the year, April through November. Even December -March it's still uncommon enough that it's usually thought of as a cold snap, and it's usually overnight. I don't think I have ever noticed a forecast in this part of the world with -20°F (or colder) listed as the day's high temperature.

It can get darn cold here. Cold enough to chase people like betarhoalphadelta. Last new years we had a really bad cold snap. But I think people who have lived here a while usually try not to road trip that much in winter, with the obvious exception of late December.

Road tripping at -20°F is, IMHO, getting into outlier territory.

I remember 2 days in the 22 years I lived in Chicago and then school at Purdue where we had days like that. -20F with -40 to -60 windchill. 2 days.

If you're making EV decisions based on something that happens 2 days out of 22 years, you might be overthinking it.

You know what else I remember about those two days? ICE vehicles were having trouble starting unless they were garaged, because of the viscosity of oil at those temps. We weren't far enough north where regular people needed engine block heaters. I remember the day in Chicago they shut down all the schools (I was in HS at the time) because the buses weren't starting.

 

[tracer bullet]

I remember 2 days in the 22 years I lived in Chicago and then school at Purdue where we had days like that. -20F with -40 to -60 windchill. 2 days.

If you're making EV decisions based on something that happens 2 days out of 22 years, you might be overthinking it.

You know what else I remember about those two days? ICE vehicles were having trouble starting unless they were garaged, because of the viscosity of oil at those temps. We weren't far enough north where regular people needed engine block heaters. I remember the day in Chicago they shut down all the schools (I was in HS at the time) because the buses weren't starting.

I don't disagree. It does depend where you live. MN can get -20 for a few days in a row, and do that more than once. -10 and even just "below 0" can go on for seemingly weeks at a time.

But unless you are driving across the state frequently (sales rep perhaps), MN, ND, or SD, then even with the reduced range you can still charge daily. For normal people getting to work, chauffeuring their kids, etc. it's still not an issue at all.

ICE cars are better these days, but yes there were so many dead lead-acid batteries, I've helped people change them when they were literally swollen and oozing out frozen electrolyte. Thankfully EV batteries aren't that way.

I recall a Christmas trip leaving Duluth and heading south. Fuel froze, the line went under the car from the tank to the engine and it froze. We got towed to a shop where it warmed overnight, we put some "heat" in it (IPA, I think) and set off the next day with our fingers crossed. It worked.

I do agree that for that rare case, it's not worth considering. Rent a 3-row ICE SUV for that annual road trip, don't skip an EV for that once a year thing.

 

[sibelman]

I do get that people think about the exceptional cases when making major purchases. After all, you can't expect to rent a vehicle in the midst of an extreme weather event. And that some folks' driving needs (frequent long drives) highlight the down sides of EVs.

@A.Homebrewer wants a vehicle that does well with long drives in cold weather. Right now, notwithstanding that all vehicles can fail in extreme cold, ICE beats EV for that use case, and btw will probably keep the cabin warm, certainly without compromising range.

Sometimes, though, we all look for facts that confirm our feelings. Maybe more than sometimes.

 

[Kent88]

And sometimes people just want far more than what they need. That's why I've made the point in what feels like dozens of posts in this thread that one should look at what they ask of their current vehicle/vehicles. When my Pontiac hit the magic mileage I like to trade at, I looked at what it typically does, and I have found my Volt to be more than capable of taking on those tasks.

Sure, I'd like a vehicle that could drive 80mph over snow in a whiteout blizzard and not flip over or slide off the road. What I need is a vehicle that can handle a light snow, I need to pay attention to the forecast and plan around the weather, and I need the people I have commitments with in my life to understand that blizzards and frigid cold snaps usually mean I'm stranded at my house until the snowplows clear my street.

One point I maybe haven't made as much as I could here is that, regarding snow accumulation, the threshold for what my Volt can handle vs what my Jeep can handle isn't that different.

 

[sibelman]

Though I bought some slender cable chains for my Bolt, Chevy says not to use any such. Not my favorite thing about the car.

 

[doug293cz]

Though I bought some slender cable chains for my Bolt, Chevy says not to use any such. Not my favorite thing about the car.

Did GM say why they recommend against chains? Is it at all related to its being an EV?

Brew on

 

[sibelman]

Just fender well clearance AFAIK. There could be some aerodynamic advantage to minimal clearance...?

 

[doug293cz]

Just fender well clearance AFAIK. There could be some aerodynamic advantage to minimal clearance...?

Yes, there is an aerodynamic advantage to minimal clearance.

Brew on

 

[Bilsch]

About the only thing you added was that you need to refill/recharge in under 10min and you need a range of 400 miles. 400 miles from a recharge, at an average speed of 59mph that takes over 6h45min to deplete. I don't know about anyone else, but I usually have to get out and stretch, grab something to eat, put some new fluid in and leave some old fluid behind more often than that.

I don't understand the edge case reasoning either. For the capability to drive a very long distance that one time in the -20 weather, with only a 10 minute stop. Then for the rest of the years of ownership you are going to pay 3-5 times the fuel cost, multiple times the maintenance plus aggravation? It doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.

In an EV for that extra hour you may end up charging on that long cold drive you could pass the time counting all the money you saved over the years.

 

[Kent88]

I don't understand the edge case reasoning either. For the capability to drive a very long distance that one time in the -20 weather, with only a 10 minute stop. Then for the rest of the years of ownership you are going to pay 3-5 times the fuel cost, multiple times the maintenance plus aggravation? It doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.

In an EV for that extra hour you may end up charging on that long cold drive you could pass the time counting all the money you saved over the years.

I understand the desire for 400+ miles of range. I expect to be driving an EV with that kind of range in a decade or so. Having that kind of range would be helpful for my trips to see family.

But 250 miles on a full charge and maybe one more well placed charging station on each of my usual routes to see parents and inlaws, and I'm good. I already have charging stations in spots that could make those trips work, so extra just gives more options in case one happens to be malfunctioning.

 

[Bilsch]

I understand the desire for 400+ miles of range. I expect to be driving an EV with that kind of range in a decade or so. Having that kind of range would be helpful for my trips to see family.

But 250 miles on a full charge and maybe one more well placed charging station on each of my usual routes to see parents and inlaws, and I'm good. I already have charging stations in spots that could make those trips work, so extra just gives more options in case one happens to be malfunctioning.

But lets be honest the 250 mile range with scarce charging stations is already 5 or more years ago technology. Range today is 300 and this average includes cars not really meant for long road trips which means there are other cars that will do much longer. Also other brands have access to many more charging options taking the worry out of planning.

I guess what I'm saying is waiting 10 years for better things to happen is.. well, you get my point.

 

[Kent88]

You're looking at it from a Tesla owner point of view. I was looking from a Bolt owner POV, as they're one of the more affordable EVs to buy new.

As for the 10 years, that wasn't well thought out. It doesn't really work with my typical trading schedule.

 

[Bilsch]

I was more looking at the US averages. The data says of all the electric cars sold here this year 300 miles was the average range. The top 10 are all over 300 with Lucid leading the pack at 516 miles.

Sure I understand you are looking at things through a GM lens which is probably why the post in question gave the readers the idea that these longer ranges with plentiful and reliable charging infrastructure is something yet to come. I just wanted to make it clear, that future is already here.

The really sad thing is General Motors could have been the leader by a good long way but instead chose to crush that tech and drag their heels for the last 23 years.

 

[Kent88]

GM's attitude has been puzzling. But most of the old, established automakers have been weird with their transition. Stellantis -Fiat-Chrysler is terrible. Ford was a little late to the party, but GM gave them a major opportunity to catch up and they took it. GM made a PHEV, then a BEV, and sat around until others caught up.

 

[Bilsch]

I don't think either GM or Stellantis are going to make it. Ford is more likely since they actually seem serious about the future and electric vehicles.

 

[passedpawn]

I'll bet you guys will like this one. In the waning days of ICE hotrods, there are still some winners, but not in the speed dept. (I have to admit I'd love to buy that Blackwing and stick it in a garage for 25 yrs).

 

[Bilsch]

I'll bet you guys will like this one. In the waning days of ICE hotrods, there are still some winners, but not in the speed dept. (I have to admit I'd love to buy that Blackwing and stick it in a garage for 25 yrs).

If I was driving the blue car I would have just taken that first left due to the utter embarrassment.

 

[day_trippr]

(I have to admit I'd love to buy that Blackwing and stick it in a garage for 25 yrs).

lololol! After 25 years it may not be able to leave the garage...

Cheers!

 

[sibelman]

GM electric truck delayed another year

 

[Airborneguy]

Demand for non-Tesla vehicles is terrible. Until everyone is on the Tesla network and weary buyers see it functioning, it will likely get worse.

The big guys screwed up. They waited too long and were content to “outsource”the charging issue to a patchwork of start ups that, besides Tesla, failed miserably.

When discussing this topic there’s ICE cars, EVs, then Tesla. They’re three different categories.