that's been one of the main issues with electric vehicles, unless the govt subsidizes them, they're aren't that affordable... taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill for what you want to do with your personal life.
And how much a month do you pay for that privileged? I bet it's a whole lot more than the $80/mo I spend on gas and the $1400/yr I spend on maintenance. EV's will eventually get there but currently their biggest supporters ignore all the data that doesn't fit their agenda and base their decisions on faith, feelings and fear.
that's been one of the main issues with electric vehicles, unless the govt subsidizes them, they're aren't that affordable... taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill for what you want to do with your personal life.
that's been one of the main issues with electric vehicles, unless the govt subsidizes them, they're aren't that affordable... taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill for what you want to do with your personal life.
Again, you quote only those numbers that suit you and leave out the biggest cost - the car payment (and the payment on your solar panels). You are becoming very predictable.I really have no way to compare to your $80/mo because I don't know how many miles you drive.
In my case I have free supercharging for life and solar.. so that comes to a grand total of $0/mo. Maintenance has also been a big fat Zero. Well, I didn't remember to look at the cost of the wiper fluid which cost something so while not exactly zero, it's close.
Actually EV's ARE there. However there are those who prefer to live in the past and read articles designed to convince people to stay as long as possible in the 'not there yet' zone. This is a disruptive technology which will make a seismic shift in the way we all live. There is a lot of money to be lost by those being disrupted and they are not going down without a fight.
I had a 1975 Honda CVCC that got 43 mpg on the freeway. Then they added catalytic converters and such and fuel economy dropped like a rock. I've always wondered how burning more fuel was supposedly better for the environment.we also wouldn't have all this 'safety' stuff being forced on us in the vehicles.
subsidies interrupt the free market. thats what the govt does. if we had a truely free market in which the govt didn't interfere alot of folks wouldn't have bought EVs due to the price... we also wouldn't have all this 'safety' stuff being forced on us in the vehicles. if you made airbags, lane assist, etc, options. I'm willing to bet folks would pass on them.
Again, you quote only those numbers that suit you and leave out the biggest cost - the car payment (and the payment on your solar panels). You are becoming very predictable.
And how, exactly, did these unbiased people decide that people died from car pollution? I'm sure it is just as unbiased as the number of people who have died from covid. It is scary how you fail to see the seemingly obvious bias in everything you quote.
I asked you how much a month you spend on your car (and fuel) and you replied that it was free. If that's not cherry-picking numbers, I don't know what is and nobody here is obtuse enough to believe they are giving away free Teslas and solar panels.Seriously?? I quoted my own numbers. How is that cherry picking numbers? I assumed that you have already read the other 3 times in this thread where I posted studies that say it takes an average of 3 years to reach cost parity with an ICE then beyond that it's all savings. Those numbers probably haven't changed in the two days since they were posted. You can obfuscate all you like but the fact remains, all costs considered, over the life of an EV, it will save tens of thousands of dollars compared to a internal combustion vehicle. It's been proven time and again.
I have no idea how MIT did the study. But yea those bunch of clowns, what do they know. I would ignore it if I were you.
I asked you how much a month you spend on your car (and fuel) and you replied that it was free. If that's not cherry-picking numbers, I don't know what is and nobody here is obtuse enough to believe they are giving away free Teslas and solar panels.
The point is that EV's require a huge upfront cost. Whether they are ever worth that depends on how you crunch the numbers. Nobody agrees. If it was as simple as you say, everyone would be driving one.I don't spend anything a month on my car. I told you I have free lifetime charging that came with the car. The solar is a wash since I use the extra power generated that my state does not pay me for. Anything over that I plug in the supercharger for free electrons. So yes it's free, gratis, libre, frei, gratuito or however you want to say it. Even if it wasn't, the car is rated at 120MPGe so it's still way better than any gas car.
As for the cost of the car. what matter does that make? I have had it for 3 years now and have made up the price difference between any comparable model I could have purchased. For the next 450,000 miles in it's all savings.
I see your point. Yes one could pick up a 95’ civic for a grand or less and get close to 50mpg, they are said to sometimes go a half a million miles or more. And the carbon toll from manufacturing has already long since been paid. Certainly that would be greener and cost less then a new EV.I paid $3200 at auction for my 2004 Sentra in 2011. EV has nothing comparable to that. Instead of cherry picking numbers, I told you $80 (which is the most I have ever paid in a month) for gas and $1400/yr (which was this year, and the most maintenance that car has ever needed). This year I had to replace the radiator, the water pump and the head gasket and I could do all the work myself.
Charging speed is good, not great, but certainly improving. Charging locations are the same way. Charging at home takes care of most EV drivers' charging needs.
Can the Volt entirely recharge its battery overnight on 120V circuit?
Yes. My 2018 volt takes a couple hours longer than my 2013 did. I assume because the battery is slightly larger, and there is more range. I know people who charge them via extension cords out the window. Mine basically takes around 12 hours? We also have an ICE vehicle. So once I get home and pull the Volt into the garage, it can just sit there and charge all night. In our case we have a Honda Element, which serves as our little urban truck. It just sits most of the time. But it's nice to have when we want to haul something, or whether the weather gets nasty. I sometimes take it up to the store just so I don't have to unplug the Volt and pull it out of the garage.
My Volt is, I believe, advertised as having a range of 53 miles of electric charge driving on a full charge. In winter, I saw it dip down to 40 miles, and this time of year I've seen it nearly hit 60 miles.
When I charge at 120v, my car defaults to charging at 8amps. When the Volt's battery is completely drained it can take about 0.75 of a day to fully recharge at 8amps. I have the option to increase to 12amps on 120v, which is typically a good idea if there isn't anything else on the circuit, but then the charger does get hot, sometimes hot enough that it stops charging. At 12amps it can typically recharge the battery from empty in 13 hours.
At 12 amps the charger can add about 4 miles per hour charge.
So when you ask if it can fully recharge it's battery entirely overnight, the answer is probably not. If you recharge for 8 hours while you sleep, then you'd just get a little over 30 miles on 12amps. If it's from 6pm to 7am, then you'd get darn close to a full charge on 12amps.
Yes, the 8 amp charge takes quite a while. I always charge at 12 amps, and haven't had the charger shut off. The charger on Gen 2 Volts will operate on 220v if you have an adaptor, and charge at close to the speeds you would get from a level 2 charger if you don't want to install a dedicated charger. So I think they will handle 12 amps just fine.
What year is your Volt? I do know that the charger for the later years is suppose to be able to handle 220v, and drastically cut down on charge times using the charger that comes with the car.My grocery store has a free level 2 charger, which is fantastic. I usually shop slow before I get to the refrigerated/frozen stuff so my car can juice up. I usually add about 10 miles while I'm there.
I plan on putting a level two charger in my garage someday, but I've been leery of letting strangers into my house lately.
The AC to DC converter on my charger gets too hot sometimes when I push 12amps. Not being an electrician, I have no idea if that is just something I should expect, if I have a shoddy charger, or if it is the 1960s era wiring in my garage.
Very helpful. Thank you.Read the first page and half of this page. Hopefully my 2 cents will help someone. Bought a 2020 Prius Prime back in September for a commuter car to run kids and myself around the greater Sacramento area. I averaged 50+ miles a day. I researched for 2 months on economical EVs, PEV's and ICE commuter cars. Had test drove a friends 2012 Leaf prior, but his range was only 80mi on a new battery and that went down in the winter/summer months. Looked at the Model 3 Teslas, but the lack of rebates and price once options were factored in went north of budget. Really wanted a Volt but it was on the north end of the budget (very little in rebates) and SWMBO isn't a Chevy fan. Plus I'd rather argue with a wall than explain why the Volt was a better choice. Just happened the bro-in-law got a new Prime at the same time. He had already broken down the numbers and they fell well within our budget.
Few notes from my experience with the prime.
The Good:
The Bad
- Car does what it's designed to do...go in a straight line very efficiently. Only 30mi range (from 28-34 depending on weather), but even on the ICE it's pulling ~50mpg. At 70mph on flat road, it also charges the battery albeit very slowly.
- Seats are fairly comfortable both front and rear
- Apply car Play is pretty sweet
- The fuel savings alone pay for the car payment compared the the dino it replaced (a '01 Landcruiser that uses Premium fuel)
- Estimated mileage is 600mi with a full charge and full tank
- I can easily go from Sacramento to Reno and back on less than a tank.
- Gas tank hold 8.5 gallons and I'm back on the road in minutes.
- EV mode driving is really neat. Fair amount of torque and quiet. Literally took me a few weeks to think something wasn't broke when we came to a stop and it was silent. (long history of driving fords and chevys. If it's not making noise..it broke down)
- Price vs the competition
- No OTA updates or reliance on the mothership. Teslas are awesome until you can't unlock it with your phone because a server is down.
- Adaptive cruise control is smooth, especially when compared with a 2017 Model S I rode in 5 months prior.
- Regen is quite efficient. I can go up several percentage points on a 1/2 mi downhill. Granted battery is small so less to fill.
- Full charge is 5hr on 120v, 2.5 on 220v
- 4 builtin USB chargers keep the kids happy for longer drives to Tahoe.
Overall, pretty happy with the car. Gets 70% of my daily driving done on electric and as long as gas stays above 3.20/gal it's cheaper to charge. One of the deciding factors for us going with PEV was the fact that our utility occasionally cuts power during heavy use times...sometimes for days. On top of that they are also one of the more expensive utilities in the country (I hear you playing the tiny violin Hawaii, you guys have it much worse). Rates are around the .20/kWh with it jumping to .32/kWh last I checked.
- No matter how comfortable the seats are..it's still a compact car
- Storage is a joke. Especially when compared to the Tesla or Volt
- light weight cars are not fun to drive during high winds..and the prime is LIGHT
- small rock cracked the windshield in Feb. Cost $1k for the windshield and $400 for the camera realignment. I wasn't close to any vehicles with it happened.
- Not nearly as fun to drive as some zippier compact cars
- When the engine does come on, it's fairly loud at highway cruising speeds
- Rest of Toyota built in electronics are fairly useless and not well laid out. They give very little info about how the car is actually operating.
- AC does not blow cold enough on really hot (+100F, 37.7C) days to properly cool interior. Especially compared to our '05 Camry and 01 Cruiser
Hopefully that helps someone out. I was in the camp of "Le t the technology mature a bit more" for several years. After driving in my buddys Leaf, and riding in a Tesla I changed my mind. Ludicrous mode in the Tesla is stupid fast and the electronics are incredible while they work. When they do break down however...there is no roadside repair possible. Spare tire anyone?
Edit: Apologies for writing a novel
Love the 100’s. 255k and motor just keeps going. Getting ready to add a borla catback. Wish the Thorley manifolds were CARB. The LC is now the winter and family/friends transpo. Its expensive, but gets the job done reliably. I get 13mpg if I drive off a cliff....or under 63. Rivian and Cyber truck are going to have to bring some serious game and discounts in order to compete in towing and longevity.Very helpful. Thank you.
Btw- if there were ever a vehicle worthy of throwing away gas, it’s the Land Cruiser. That era would be my pick for a post apocalyptic, world’s coming to an end, I need a reliable vehicle, that can go anywhere.
I had a ‘98 and still cringe when I think about the day I sold it.
Rivian and Cyber truck are going to have to bring some serious game and discounts in order to compete in towing and longevity.
I'm just going to put this here.
Wait until you have to replace the battery...Oh no.. you mean to tell me for these last 3 years I’ve only imagined not going to the gas station or auto repair shop? And I’m only hallucinating about the money I’m saving? Damn man... why’d you have to go and ruin my fantasy reality.
Haha not so fast. Here is the exact quote of what you said:
"You are totally misinformed..... Electric vehicles are recharged off the electric grid. At least 80% is still produced with coal, oil or natural gas."
Nice try though with the nuclear thing.
Yea I also read that about lithium batteries not being recyclable.. in 2015. Things change, technology advances and we move forward. Well some of us anyway.
Wait until you have to replace the battery...